Defeating the DDM, required a "special" torp, this is obviously generating more 98 megatons, as Spock told Jim in the TOS episode. When the Constellation's impulse engines, not even the warp core, which I don't even believe they mentioned in the original series, were set to explode.
So taking on V'ger, which when Spock states the power output, I believe someone on the bridge, I think its Decker, says that it generates more power than Earth's sun.
As for who's alive and who's not... that is a philosophical question that I think I would rather not get drawn into... thanks, bu no thanks.. I'm driving.
All I'm going to say on this matter is that in the zone loading cut-scenes, the little items they have at the bottom, I know i saw one that mentions Seven and one that mentions Chakotay.
Yeah these sound like great ideas and while we seem to be drawing inspiration from the worst and dullest movies of the series how about bringing back God from Star Trek V?
Yeah these sound like great ideas and while we seem to be drawing inspiration from the worst and dullest movies of the series how about bringing back God from Star Trek V?
If that thing got off the planet, and is moving through space as an energy cloud with a face, I'm gonna be really freaked out. Sure it's not 'God', but it's clearly a threat, especially if it survived being shot in the face by a Klingon Bird-of-Prey's disrupter.
Though if there's one thing I want added at some point, we get to visit a section of space, but your science officer remarks that we are within range of a negative star mass, so readings could prove valuable from this distance... but as you're doing so, you get strange readings. Then next thing you know, you're hearing this over the intercom/pop-up:
"Please... Please... So lonely..."
Heh heh
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Yeah these sound like great ideas and while we seem to be drawing inspiration from the worst and dullest movies of the series how about bringing back God from Star Trek V?
the Q continuum would just lock it up again like they did the first time.
What I'm curious about is...WHY do you want V'ger back? I mean, Decker and V'ger evolved into a higher form of life (or just wasted heaps of money on special effects).
Now the Nexus I can understand, as it will return in 2410 technically
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Seven as a BORG drone was not actually alive at all (she would not function minus the borg components ergo she isn't alive she is a cybernetic puppet)
Depends on your definition of "alive". She may have been a 'cybernetic puppet' during her time as a drone, but by 2409 she's spent thirty-five years as an individual.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
You know most of this thread was hijacked by some ignorant (or trolling?) comment confusing Voyager with V'ger. And then 3 pages of replies about Voyager. Way to stay on topic people. :rolleyes:
Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
Return of Voyager? Most of it's crew is not alive at this timeline accept Naomi Wildman, Icheb and The Doctor. And ship itself is in museum.
LOL.
The game only takes place about 30 years after Voyager ended.
-Admiral Janeway is still out and about.
-Admiral Chakotay is currently the head of Starfleet Intelligence and the one who informed Starfleet to be alert of the Undine's presence and told them to start developing proper countermeasures.
-Harry Kim was transfered to a starbase somewhere.
-The Doctor was officially recognized as a sentient being, given full rights that every other Federation citizen has.
I haven't heard any information about what happened to the rest of the crew, but they are not dead.
"My frozen dairy-based confectionery attracts all the males of the species to the facilities. They all agree on it's superiority. Indeed, it is superior to yours. I could teach you the finer details but that would require monetary recompense on your part." -The Milkshake Song: Vulcan Edition
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
go back in time and put in a kill command in the original probe
OR take a ship to warp through it
(object faster than light hits any object it hits with INFINATE mass (ergo total destruction) this is why a warp speed torpedo would destroy ANY solid object)
Then... you are not alive then, because every time you are transported, your body is broken down, and reassembled at the other end. So, by your definition, your Character is not alive.
Also, since a majority of your Atoms have been replaced have probably been replaced a few times over since birth. You are a duplicate of yourself... Therefore you are not alive
As for Seven of Nine, yes she is dependant on her nanoprobes to keep her alive. But there are other people in the world (yes, the real world) that need pacemakers, insulin pumps, cochlear implants, Ect to function normally and survive. My Girlfriend has a shunt in her skull that siphons off excess fluid in her brain and dumps it near her liver. Without it, she would be in excruciating pain or dead. Are these people "Not alive" by your definition?
Also, Seven of Nine has shown on many occasions that she has a will separate from the Collective and even the crew. Granted, she is influenced greatly by her years as a drone. However, that influence is in much the same way as being raised Catholic. It rubs off on you and are assimilated into it.
But in any case I do not regard post death people held together with wire and string as alive
The Borg I regard as animate corpses
Again... My Girlfriend is held together by string and wires and glue (quiet literally in some cases ). Yet she is still alive. At least i hope so, because necrophilia is illegal in this state... :eek:
As for the Borg, they are not reanimated corpses. The Biological part of the unit HAS to stay alive in order for it to function. The life functions are supplemented by the nanoprobes. But as Star Trek: First Contact shows, if you remove the Biological component, the unit fails completely.
But back to Vger why the hell can't we destroy it?
its obsolete tech
It maybe over a hundred years old but it is not anywhere close to obsolete. First of all, it came from another culture, another planet. That planet has/had an independent technological curve from The Federation. It developed all of it's technology and concepts separate from us. And since we have not had any contact with the original culture (I personal do not think it was the Borg that sent it. Too many inconsistency, but I'm open to hear more.) We have not had a chance to trade technology and knowledge with the rest of the machine planet. So we are STILL independent technology wise.
So just because we have advanced technology in the last 130 years, it means nothing if V'ger's culture had a massive head start as it is. V'ger had a massive power production, prefect replication, an unstoppable weapon, and prefect data analysis. It was centuries ahead of Federation design. Also, they have had the same amount of time to advance their own technology even more.
also its tech is over a century out of date and thus is no match for modern tech
(claims its linked to the borg would make it weaker still)
#
Kirk did not fire a single shot at the thing. The only weapon fired from the Enterprise in that entire movie was a torpedo aimed at the asteroid in the wormhole effect. He tanked it by pouring all power to the shields and then some (and even then, some bled through). He finally got a friendly message through so it would stop firing at him, allowing him to continue. After the Ilia Probe came aboard, he used logic, reason, and that "Damnit-Jim" Stubbornness to Figure out what V'ger wanted... and then gave it to it.
The Enterprise did not defeat V'ger. Jim Kirk did.. with that help of Spock's logic and telepathic messaging, McCoy's Medical knowledge and passion, Scotty's Miracle workmanship, and Will Decker's Sacrifice and Love.
To put the technology in perspective, Imagine that the United States Military went back in time to the early 9th century AD in North America, with all the bells and whistles. They would decimate the Native American without blinking. Now scale back the technology 130 years. We would still have the Gatling gun, TNT, Cannons, steel and iron work, maybe even early Automobiles, better medicine. Decimation would still ensue.
***
Now.. BACK ON THE ORIGINAL TOPIC POSTED BY THE ORIGINAL POSTER!!!!
I would personally love to see more of V'ger's origins and maybe even her fate revealed (As I have said above, I generally do not agree with the statement that V'ger is from the Borg.) Maybe the V'ger Child comes back for a visit... of DOOM! Or of a warning of something greater to come?
Not sure how visiting the Nexus again would work out, as each nexus is very personal and unique, and it would be jarring to have Nexus template A applied to you when your character's history and personality might be better suited for Nexus Template C-A^2 with a dash of awesome+baked at 400 degrees and with a cherry on top. However, I can imagine a scenario where you have to chase a bad-guy who hijax the Nexus again and you chase him/her through THEIR Nexi.
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go back in time and put in a kill command in the original probe
OR take a ship to warp through it
(object faster than light hits any object it hits with INFINATE mass (ergo total destruction) this is why a warp speed torpedo would destroy ANY solid object)
one.
kill command? It already fried its receiving antennae, so it couldnt receive the command to activate the kill switch. it would still blow you out of the water before you could get close enough for a manual override like decker did.
two.
shields block mass and such. considering how much power V'ger outputs if it were to divert all that power to shielding itself, you'd slam into its shields and splatter harmlessly like a bug on a windshield, maybe make a dent in its shielding.
kill command? It already fried its receiving antennae, so it couldnt receive the command to activate the kill switch. it would still blow you out of the water before you could get close enough for a manual override like decker did.
two.
shields block mass and such. considering how much power V'ger outputs if it were to divert all that power to shielding itself, you'd slam into its shields and splatter harmlessly like a bug on a windshield, maybe make a dent in its shielding.
P.S. Warp doesnt increase mass, just VELOCITY.
-true.
but please, dont feed trolvax :P
When in doubt, (hehe) c4!
This sig dedicated to the many random objects the Mythbusters crew has blow to smitherines
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
Getting back to the original topic... according to a previous star trek game (Star Trek Legacy - narrated in part by all actors to have played enterprise captains), V'ger became the borg.
D&D DM/Player since 1982 - all versions except the despised 4e
Getting back to the original topic... according to a previous star trek game (Star Trek Legacy - narrated in part by all actors to have played enterprise captains), V'ger became the borg.
Non-canon. And I don't really like the Borg connection to V'Ger...it just doesn't seem right to me. Granted, in STO there are Borg ships very similar to V'Ger in appearance...
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
Warp speed in Star Trek doesnt apply to Newtonian physics. Its a method of sidestepping the mind boggling energy required for high speed space flight.
Example being at about 70% percent light mass has the equivalent energy of antimatter. And since you dont see our ships with huge fuel tanks of antimatter larger than the ship the warp fields are seriously skewing the energy required for travel. Meaning that if you hit something at warp your not imparting FTL levels of energy into it.
Also V'ger can literally "dust" planets thats still considered WTFBBQ in trek. Now a little mini v'ger probe that it sent back just to check things out. The Devs might swing a few missions out of that.
I liked the Destiny Books explanation for Borg better than the "V'ger falls into another timeloop black hole" that seems to be the mushy cannon. Hopefully since we get the Vesta we can also take that piece of the books so the Borgs beginnings arnt made of quite so many plot holes.
Transporters literally take you apart, atom by atom, and rebuild you from the ground up. This is not the same as in the post that mentioned that all of your atoms were replaced a few times since you were born, as that was a gradual process that did not destroy the original, just subtly and harmlessly replace the components. Transporters, however, do it instantly without any care for whether the original's consciousness (or soul or whatever you want to call it) survives, or is mercilessly deleted.
To put this last sentence into perspective with an example:
I have a character named "Sollvax Trolls".
I play on him for hours and hours and hours.
I delete him.
I replace him with an identical copy with the same appearance, traits, and name. I even copy the name of his starting ship.
Is he the same character? No, because you just deleted your skill tree, your items (unless stored in account bank or mail), your accolades, and your rank. But if you worked hard enough, it'll FEEL like the same character despite not being it. But you'll know you deleted him.
Same with how the transporter functions:
I'm called John Doe.
I'm, say, 38 years old.
I go into a transporter.
I press the shiny button labeled "Energize", erasing myself from existence and producing an exact duplicate on the other side.
Am I still alive? From the perspective of every other person, yes. But I obviously won't know that, because my identity has been wiped. I've ceased to exist. The duplicate inherits my name, my memories, my behavior, everything, but I as an individual entity have been erased forever and will never see anything after the shiny button. (unless you believe in reincarnation, but let's keep such beliefs aside for now :P)
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Object at multiples of light speed = INFINATE mass
= no power in the cosmos can stop it
(the M = mass )
A spoken kill command (no need for manual contact)
Vger destroyed a few ships
And where it went
well after it bonded with Decker it had an emotional collapse and is still in rehab
(thats a JOKE)
As mentioned, Warp drive does not follow Newtonian nor Eisenstein physics.
Also, wrong formula... E=mc^2 refers to the relationship between mass and energy.
The one you are looking for is Special Relativity, which states that the closer you get to the speed of light, your mass increases, your perception of time slows down and your length gets shorter.
An Object at "Multiple speed of light" does not have infinite mass... Because even breaching lightspeed is impossible. All of that crazy stuff that Einstein theorized is the universes attempt to stop EVERYTHING from hitting light speed at all cost. Not one thing can exceed the speed of light. Not a Starship, not a ball bouncing on the starship, not a phaser fired across the corridor in a starship at Warp.
How warp drive works is that it makes a warp bubble around the ship that has a higher speed of light then normal, and a lower inertia rating. Subspace is funny like that. Also, it wrinkles space in front of the ship and expands space behind it, making the ship surf at FLT speeds within a warp bubble by moving space at FTL speeds. Einstein need not attend.
Live on Earth. Work in Space. Play with Dragons. Join the best add on to STO, the Neverwinter holodeck program! Only 14 GPL a month.
Err, Janeway is dead, since the Vulcan Assimilation incident (considering how much of the content from the books is in the game).
unless a dev specifically says shes dead, she can be considered alive, since dev's can pick and choose what parts of soft canon get put in the game. hence why the events of the destiny series of novels (which mention janeway as dead as well) dont exist, since they destroyed the borg. yet the borg are major players in STO.
Return of Voyager? Most of it's crew is not alive at this timeline accept Naomi Wildman, Icheb and The Doctor. And ship itself is in museum.
Disregarding the status of the ship and crew in the unofficial novels, I really must say, I HATE this argument.
What makes you think that ANY of the crew would be dead merely 35 years post-Voyager? Remember, this is Star Trek. And in the TNG-era, Human beings can live significantly longer than they do today. "Admiral McCoy" was 137 years old in 'Encounter at Farpoint'.
Jean Luc Picard (which would be the oldest TNG-era character), was born in 2305. By STO standards, that would make him 104 years old. Going by our standards, that would be around 70-75 years old (Sir Patrick Stewart's real life age).
There is no canon reason why ANY of the TNG-era characters should be dead of "old age", since most of them wouldn't be super-old as of yet. The obvious reason for why most TNG-era characters are ignored in STO, is because of MONEY. It would cost Cryptic/PWE big bucks to have the likenesses of Sir Patrick Stewart, Jonathan Frakes etc in STO. Which results in us being left with the vague "reference" to known characters in various missions.
Now that the rant is over with, in reference to the OP, i'd very much like to see the return of the Nexus (should be making a re-appearance in STO's time period). But i'm not as sure about V'Ger. I assumed the "probe" and Commander Decker merged in TMP, creating a new form of life, and disappearing in subspace. There is no reason to assume that "V'Ger" or it's offspring would come back to Earth.
unless a dev specifically says shes dead, she can be considered alive, since dev's can pick and choose what parts of soft canon get put in the game. hence why the events of the destiny series of novels (which mention janeway as dead as well) dont exist, since they destroyed the borg. yet the borg are major players in STO.
You can only pick and choose so much, they have friggen Capt. Mackenzie Calhoun on K-7 from New Frontier, you can pretty much assume they went with the main line of books through Voyager and DS9 relaunches (minus anything Shatner was involved in). We are dealing with soft canon here since nothing is canon unless it appears in a series or film and even then its up a little iffy.
Janeway is dead and off with Q to explore a whole new dimension.
Hi, my name is: Elim Garak, Former Cardassian Oppressor
LTS, here since...when did this game launch again?
Now.. BACK ON THE ORIGINAL TOPIC POSTED BY THE ORIGINAL POSTER!!!!
I would personally love to see more of V'ger's origins and maybe even her fate revealed (As I have said above, I generally do not agree with the statement that V'ger is from the Borg.) Maybe the V'ger Child comes back for a visit... of DOOM! Or of a warning of something greater to come?
Not sure how visiting the Nexus again would work out, as each nexus is very personal and unique, and it would be jarring to have Nexus template A applied to you when your character's history and personality might be better suited for Nexus Template C-A^2 with a dash of awesome+baked at 400 degrees and with a cherry on top. However, I can imagine a scenario where you have to chase a bad-guy who hijax the Nexus again and you chase him/her through THEIR Nexi.
There are a couple of points about the Nexus to consider. One is that Soran has an echo in there. Another is that Guinan does. These could be relevant. Granted, I think you'd be more likely to get McDowell's likeness than Whoopi's.
But if I really wanted to do something novel as a spinoff...
I'd look at several new ways to look at the Nexus.
One is that Kirk and Picard "broke" it. It clearly was "designed" so that no one would take the choice to leave. Their doing so could have corrupted the Nexus somehow. Maybe we'd have to go into their fantasy worlds and properly dissolve them.
Another would be to play with new characters' interactions with it or at least different characters' interactions.
The plot I've played with (again with implausible actor likeness licensing) would be this:
|
Troi is aboard a science ship waiting for the Nexus to pass to do a detailed scan of it. They get jumped by Klingons. A battle breaks out. All ships present get consumed by the Nexus.
What follows is Worf and Riker leading inquiries into the disappearance with Riker hellbent on being reunited with Troi, either convincing her to leave the Nexus or, if she can't be convinced to leave, joining her in there.
You can only pick and choose so much, they have friggen Capt. Mackenzie Calhoun on K-7 from New Frontier, you can pretty much assume they went with the main line of books through Voyager and DS9 relaunches (minus anything Shatner was involved in). We are dealing with soft canon here since nothing is canon unless it appears in a series or film and even then its up a little iffy.
Janeway is dead and off with Q to explore a whole new dimension.
They went with the pre-Destiny books for the most part. It's rather simple. Around Destiny is the cutoff point.
And even Destiny is out of sync with prior books.
The STO tie-in novel establishes, for instance, that the Genesis Wave books happened in the STO timeline and not the post-Destiny novelverse.
In short, STO takes place in the classic novelverse. The Destiny and beyond books take place in a separate universe. And Peter David will ignore all distinctions because he's Peter David.
In DC terms, STO is Earth-2, the classic continuity. Destiny is Earth-1, the slightly newer continuity which contains retcons.
Basically from my reading of "The Needs of the Many," Trek history goes something like this if you try to incorporate most of the novels and comics.
You have the Prime Universe.
In 2378, Nero goes back in time and creates the J.J.-verse. Separate parallel universe.
In 2409, the Undine go back in time and create the Destiny-verse. Separate parallel universe. However, conveniently, nothing from the shows is different but the books' events are different, including things like Ogawa's child changing genders and Genesis Wave never happening. In the Destiny-verse, the Borg are defeated due to subtle tinkering by Undine imposters.
STO is the Prime Universe, the one that the Undine time travelers came from but which is not affected by their sabotage of history.
There are a couple of points about the Nexus to consider. One is that Soran has an echo in there. Another is that Guinan does. These could be relevant. Granted, I think you'd be more likely to get McDowell's likeness than Whoopi's.
But if I really wanted to do something novel as a spinoff...
I'd look at several new ways to look at the Nexus.
One is that Kirk and Picard "broke" it. It clearly was "designed" so that no one would take the choice to leave. Their doing so could have corrupted the Nexus somehow. Maybe we'd have to go into their fantasy worlds and properly dissolve them.
Another would be to play with new characters' interactions with it or at least different characters' interactions.
The plot I've played with (again with implausible actor likeness licensing) would be this:
|
Troi is aboard a science ship waiting for the Nexus to pass to do a detailed scan of it. They get jumped by Klingons. A battle breaks out. All ships present get consumed by the Nexus.
What follows is Worf and Riker leading inquiries into the disappearance with Riker hellbent on being reunited with Troi, either convincing her to leave the Nexus or, if she can't be convinced to leave, joining her in there.
I like this, if only because the klingons would have lots o dancers in their nexi
When in doubt, (hehe) c4!
This sig dedicated to the many random objects the Mythbusters crew has blow to smitherines
Comments
Defeating the DDM, required a "special" torp, this is obviously generating more 98 megatons, as Spock told Jim in the TOS episode. When the Constellation's impulse engines, not even the warp core, which I don't even believe they mentioned in the original series, were set to explode.
So taking on V'ger, which when Spock states the power output, I believe someone on the bridge, I think its Decker, says that it generates more power than Earth's sun.
As for who's alive and who's not... that is a philosophical question that I think I would rather not get drawn into... thanks, bu no thanks.. I'm driving.
All I'm going to say on this matter is that in the zone loading cut-scenes, the little items they have at the bottom, I know i saw one that mentions Seven and one that mentions Chakotay.
Though if there's one thing I want added at some point, we get to visit a section of space, but your science officer remarks that we are within range of a negative star mass, so readings could prove valuable from this distance... but as you're doing so, you get strange readings. Then next thing you know, you're hearing this over the intercom/pop-up:
"Please... Please... So lonely..."
Heh heh
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
the Q continuum would just lock it up again like they did the first time.
Now the Nexus I can understand, as it will return in 2410 technically
Technically that's correct, though I personally like to pretend that it's the same person. It makes me enjoy Voyager more.
Depends on your definition of "alive". She may have been a 'cybernetic puppet' during her time as a drone, but by 2409 she's spent thirty-five years as an individual.
A new timeline, yes, but I wouldn't call it a "bogus reality".
So just because Tom Riker was formed in a transporter accident, he's not a living person?
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
LOL.
The game only takes place about 30 years after Voyager ended.
-Admiral Janeway is still out and about.
-Admiral Chakotay is currently the head of Starfleet Intelligence and the one who informed Starfleet to be alert of the Undine's presence and told them to start developing proper countermeasures.
-Harry Kim was transfered to a starbase somewhere.
-The Doctor was officially recognized as a sentient being, given full rights that every other Federation citizen has.
I haven't heard any information about what happened to the rest of the crew, but they are not dead.
-The Milkshake Song: Vulcan Edition
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
go back in time and put in a kill command in the original probe
OR take a ship to warp through it
(object faster than light hits any object it hits with INFINATE mass (ergo total destruction) this is why a warp speed torpedo would destroy ANY solid object)
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Transporter
Then... you are not alive then, because every time you are transported, your body is broken down, and reassembled at the other end. So, by your definition, your Character is not alive.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080423175233AAe7qF2
and
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2000-09/968860088.Bc.r.html
Also, since a majority of your Atoms have been replaced have probably been replaced a few times over since birth. You are a duplicate of yourself... Therefore you are not alive
As for Seven of Nine, yes she is dependant on her nanoprobes to keep her alive. But there are other people in the world (yes, the real world) that need pacemakers, insulin pumps, cochlear implants, Ect to function normally and survive. My Girlfriend has a shunt in her skull that siphons off excess fluid in her brain and dumps it near her liver. Without it, she would be in excruciating pain or dead. Are these people "Not alive" by your definition?
Also, Seven of Nine has shown on many occasions that she has a will separate from the Collective and even the crew. Granted, she is influenced greatly by her years as a drone. However, that influence is in much the same way as being raised Catholic. It rubs off on you and are assimilated into it.
Again... My Girlfriend is held together by string and wires and glue (quiet literally in some cases
As for the Borg, they are not reanimated corpses. The Biological part of the unit HAS to stay alive in order for it to function. The life functions are supplemented by the nanoprobes. But as Star Trek: First Contact shows, if you remove the Biological component, the unit fails completely.
It maybe over a hundred years old but it is not anywhere close to obsolete. First of all, it came from another culture, another planet. That planet has/had an independent technological curve from The Federation. It developed all of it's technology and concepts separate from us. And since we have not had any contact with the original culture (I personal do not think it was the Borg that sent it. Too many inconsistency, but I'm open to hear more.) We have not had a chance to trade technology and knowledge with the rest of the machine planet. So we are STILL independent technology wise.
So just because we have advanced technology in the last 130 years, it means nothing if V'ger's culture had a massive head start as it is. V'ger had a massive power production, prefect replication, an unstoppable weapon, and prefect data analysis. It was centuries ahead of Federation design. Also, they have had the same amount of time to advance their own technology even more.
Kirk did not fire a single shot at the thing. The only weapon fired from the Enterprise in that entire movie was a torpedo aimed at the asteroid in the wormhole effect. He tanked it by pouring all power to the shields and then some (and even then, some bled through). He finally got a friendly message through so it would stop firing at him, allowing him to continue. After the Ilia Probe came aboard, he used logic, reason, and that "Damnit-Jim" Stubbornness to Figure out what V'ger wanted... and then gave it to it.
The Enterprise did not defeat V'ger. Jim Kirk did.. with that help of Spock's logic and telepathic messaging, McCoy's Medical knowledge and passion, Scotty's Miracle workmanship, and Will Decker's Sacrifice and Love.
To put the technology in perspective, Imagine that the United States Military went back in time to the early 9th century AD in North America, with all the bells and whistles. They would decimate the Native American without blinking. Now scale back the technology 130 years. We would still have the Gatling gun, TNT, Cannons, steel and iron work, maybe even early Automobiles, better medicine. Decimation would still ensue.
***
Now.. BACK ON THE ORIGINAL TOPIC POSTED BY THE ORIGINAL POSTER!!!!
I would personally love to see more of V'ger's origins and maybe even her fate revealed (As I have said above, I generally do not agree with the statement that V'ger is from the Borg.) Maybe the V'ger Child comes back for a visit... of DOOM! Or of a warning of something greater to come?
Not sure how visiting the Nexus again would work out, as each nexus is very personal and unique, and it would be jarring to have Nexus template A applied to you when your character's history and personality might be better suited for Nexus Template C-A^2 with a dash of awesome+baked at 400 degrees and with a cherry on top. However, I can imagine a scenario where you have to chase a bad-guy who hijax the Nexus again and you chase him/her through THEIR Nexi.
one.
kill command? It already fried its receiving antennae, so it couldnt receive the command to activate the kill switch. it would still blow you out of the water before you could get close enough for a manual override like decker did.
two.
shields block mass and such. considering how much power V'ger outputs if it were to divert all that power to shielding itself, you'd slam into its shields and splatter harmlessly like a bug on a windshield, maybe make a dent in its shielding.
P.S. Warp doesnt increase mass, just VELOCITY.
-true.
but please, dont feed trolvax :P
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Object at multiples of light speed = INFINATE mass
= no power in the cosmos can stop it
(the M = mass )
A spoken kill command (no need for manual contact)
Vger destroyed a few ships
And where it went
well after it bonded with Decker it had an emotional collapse and is still in rehab
(thats a JOKE)
What about the Temporal Prime Directive?
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
Shoot the man who came up with it before he leaves school
Then Daniels and his buddies from the 31st century would arrest you and undo all the changes you made to the timeline.
Either them, or the crew of the USS Relativity.
Non-canon. And I don't really like the Borg connection to V'Ger...it just doesn't seem right to me. Granted, in STO there are Borg ships very similar to V'Ger in appearance...
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
If going to light speed made you have infinite mass, then wouldn't everything in the universe be destroyed the instant the first ship went to warp?
Example being at about 70% percent light mass has the equivalent energy of antimatter. And since you dont see our ships with huge fuel tanks of antimatter larger than the ship the warp fields are seriously skewing the energy required for travel. Meaning that if you hit something at warp your not imparting FTL levels of energy into it.
Also V'ger can literally "dust" planets thats still considered WTFBBQ in trek. Now a little mini v'ger probe that it sent back just to check things out. The Devs might swing a few missions out of that.
I liked the Destiny Books explanation for Borg better than the "V'ger falls into another timeloop black hole" that seems to be the mushy cannon. Hopefully since we get the Vesta we can also take that piece of the books so the Borgs beginnings arnt made of quite so many plot holes.
Transporters literally take you apart, atom by atom, and rebuild you from the ground up. This is not the same as in the post that mentioned that all of your atoms were replaced a few times since you were born, as that was a gradual process that did not destroy the original, just subtly and harmlessly replace the components. Transporters, however, do it instantly without any care for whether the original's consciousness (or soul or whatever you want to call it) survives, or is mercilessly deleted.
To put this last sentence into perspective with an example:
I have a character named "Sollvax Trolls".
I play on him for hours and hours and hours.
I delete him.
I replace him with an identical copy with the same appearance, traits, and name. I even copy the name of his starting ship.
Is he the same character? No, because you just deleted your skill tree, your items (unless stored in account bank or mail), your accolades, and your rank. But if you worked hard enough, it'll FEEL like the same character despite not being it. But you'll know you deleted him.
Same with how the transporter functions:
I'm called John Doe.
I'm, say, 38 years old.
I go into a transporter.
I press the shiny button labeled "Energize", erasing myself from existence and producing an exact duplicate on the other side.
Am I still alive? From the perspective of every other person, yes. But I obviously won't know that, because my identity has been wiped. I've ceased to exist. The duplicate inherits my name, my memories, my behavior, everything, but I as an individual entity have been erased forever and will never see anything after the shiny button. (unless you believe in reincarnation, but let's keep such beliefs aside for now :P)
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
As mentioned, Warp drive does not follow Newtonian nor Eisenstein physics.
Also, wrong formula... E=mc^2 refers to the relationship between mass and energy.
The one you are looking for is Special Relativity, which states that the closer you get to the speed of light, your mass increases, your perception of time slows down and your length gets shorter.
An Object at "Multiple speed of light" does not have infinite mass... Because even breaching lightspeed is impossible. All of that crazy stuff that Einstein theorized is the universes attempt to stop EVERYTHING from hitting light speed at all cost. Not one thing can exceed the speed of light. Not a Starship, not a ball bouncing on the starship, not a phaser fired across the corridor in a starship at Warp.
How warp drive works is that it makes a warp bubble around the ship that has a higher speed of light then normal, and a lower inertia rating. Subspace is funny like that. Also, it wrinkles space in front of the ship and expands space behind it, making the ship surf at FLT speeds within a warp bubble by moving space at FTL speeds. Einstein need not attend.
LTS, here since...when did this game launch again?
unless a dev specifically says shes dead, she can be considered alive, since dev's can pick and choose what parts of soft canon get put in the game. hence why the events of the destiny series of novels (which mention janeway as dead as well) dont exist, since they destroyed the borg. yet the borg are major players in STO.
Disregarding the status of the ship and crew in the unofficial novels, I really must say, I HATE this argument.
What makes you think that ANY of the crew would be dead merely 35 years post-Voyager? Remember, this is Star Trek. And in the TNG-era, Human beings can live significantly longer than they do today. "Admiral McCoy" was 137 years old in 'Encounter at Farpoint'.
Jean Luc Picard (which would be the oldest TNG-era character), was born in 2305. By STO standards, that would make him 104 years old. Going by our standards, that would be around 70-75 years old (Sir Patrick Stewart's real life age).
There is no canon reason why ANY of the TNG-era characters should be dead of "old age", since most of them wouldn't be super-old as of yet. The obvious reason for why most TNG-era characters are ignored in STO, is because of MONEY. It would cost Cryptic/PWE big bucks to have the likenesses of Sir Patrick Stewart, Jonathan Frakes etc in STO. Which results in us being left with the vague "reference" to known characters in various missions.
Now that the rant is over with, in reference to the OP, i'd very much like to see the return of the Nexus (should be making a re-appearance in STO's time period). But i'm not as sure about V'Ger. I assumed the "probe" and Commander Decker merged in TMP, creating a new form of life, and disappearing in subspace. There is no reason to assume that "V'Ger" or it's offspring would come back to Earth.
You can only pick and choose so much, they have friggen Capt. Mackenzie Calhoun on K-7 from New Frontier, you can pretty much assume they went with the main line of books through Voyager and DS9 relaunches (minus anything Shatner was involved in). We are dealing with soft canon here since nothing is canon unless it appears in a series or film and even then its up a little iffy.
Janeway is dead and off with Q to explore a whole new dimension.
LTS, here since...when did this game launch again?
There are a couple of points about the Nexus to consider. One is that Soran has an echo in there. Another is that Guinan does. These could be relevant. Granted, I think you'd be more likely to get McDowell's likeness than Whoopi's.
But if I really wanted to do something novel as a spinoff...
I'd look at several new ways to look at the Nexus.
One is that Kirk and Picard "broke" it. It clearly was "designed" so that no one would take the choice to leave. Their doing so could have corrupted the Nexus somehow. Maybe we'd have to go into their fantasy worlds and properly dissolve them.
Another would be to play with new characters' interactions with it or at least different characters' interactions.
The plot I've played with (again with implausible actor likeness licensing) would be this:
|
Troi is aboard a science ship waiting for the Nexus to pass to do a detailed scan of it. They get jumped by Klingons. A battle breaks out. All ships present get consumed by the Nexus.
What follows is Worf and Riker leading inquiries into the disappearance with Riker hellbent on being reunited with Troi, either convincing her to leave the Nexus or, if she can't be convinced to leave, joining her in there.
They went with the pre-Destiny books for the most part. It's rather simple. Around Destiny is the cutoff point.
And even Destiny is out of sync with prior books.
The STO tie-in novel establishes, for instance, that the Genesis Wave books happened in the STO timeline and not the post-Destiny novelverse.
In short, STO takes place in the classic novelverse. The Destiny and beyond books take place in a separate universe. And Peter David will ignore all distinctions because he's Peter David.
In DC terms, STO is Earth-2, the classic continuity. Destiny is Earth-1, the slightly newer continuity which contains retcons.
You have the Prime Universe.
In 2378, Nero goes back in time and creates the J.J.-verse. Separate parallel universe.
In 2409, the Undine go back in time and create the Destiny-verse. Separate parallel universe. However, conveniently, nothing from the shows is different but the books' events are different, including things like Ogawa's child changing genders and Genesis Wave never happening. In the Destiny-verse, the Borg are defeated due to subtle tinkering by Undine imposters.
STO is the Prime Universe, the one that the Undine time travelers came from but which is not affected by their sabotage of history.
I like how Star Wars divides it's canon:
Star Trek would be similar:
Primary Canon: TV Shows + Movies
Secondary Canon: STO
Tertiary Canon: Trek Novels
Novel Canon: Technical Manuals
Non-Canon: Star Trek games
I like this, if only because the klingons would have lots o dancers in their nexi
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