test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Add a limit to fleet base contributions
stephane2258
Member Posts: 115 Arc User
Hi, I'm part of a fleet that is victim of it's success and that growing maybe too much. It's more and more difficult to contribute to the fleet base. We are supposed to limit ourselves to give everybody a chance, but not everybody respect that. Yesterday night, we were only 3 on the Klingon side, that have much less players. Cool, a new project. I contribute some other things, but when I come to contribute XP, too late.
So, it may be a good idea to implement impose per day limit. Since not everybody contribute, maybe it could be something like 100/half the number of player percent per day, minimum 1, since some thing require only a few items. It may sometime take a few more days to finish the project, but at least everybody can contribute and it will avoid excess by some players. I work, like many others, so I cannot always be there when a project begin to have a chance to contribute. It fact, I'm rarely there at the right time.
Another thing, what's next? Will the base project continue forever? Because I have 2 level 50 characters, one on each side, but I have other characters too. Will they be able to contribute and get fleet credit?
So, it may be a good idea to implement impose per day limit. Since not everybody contribute, maybe it could be something like 100/half the number of player percent per day, minimum 1, since some thing require only a few items. It may sometime take a few more days to finish the project, but at least everybody can contribute and it will avoid excess by some players. I work, like many others, so I cannot always be there when a project begin to have a chance to contribute. It fact, I'm rarely there at the right time.
Another thing, what's next? Will the base project continue forever? Because I have 2 level 50 characters, one on each side, but I have other characters too. Will they be able to contribute and get fleet credit?
Post edited by stephane2258 on
0
Comments
jim@jim940
As for limits... this has been talked about and rehashed so many times... long term, i think you will find that people run out of their stockpiles. I know this happened in my fleet... in the beginning we had the same complaints... nothing open to donate to (20 hour projects would fill in less than 1 minute)... but as time went on, the stockpiles of XP and Dilithium etc were depleted and those who didn't have a chance suddenly did (since projects cost more and were open longer).
I think it'll even out in the end.
As much as the small fleet is correct that, in their case, costs are too high... imposing limits on them would cause additional issues for them...
Large fleets run into the available projects to donate to, and available provisioned resource issue (i.e. Ships, weapons, etc).
However, the math involved in trying to make it "fair" for everyone becomes complex to say the least, and exploitable very quickly. (i.e. reduce fleet size to make projects cheaper, spread large fleets around to a myriad of small fleets, with cheaper projects focus on specific upgrades etc).
Someone on the forums proposed a donation system, where you could donate to another fleets project (anonymously)... i think that idea had merit as it helps both large and small fleets a like... the players in large fleets get a outlet to donate their stockpiled matierals in exchange for fleet credits, and the small fleets get much needed supplies to upgrade their base). I do think there should be a % reduction to contributing to another fleet (similar to the re-run of FE/Story line missions).
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
Don't assume that any limits you can come up with in a vacuum won't cause somebody else a problem.
Just relax a bit, OP, things will calm down and your fleet will have more people donating.
That said, I still see stuff sitting, waiting to be finished off, usually because of the DOff bottle neck.
I don't have white DOffs. You can't choose what DOffs you get from the trade down. This is really a good spot for the folks that 'can never contribute' to contribute.
If you're not to the point yet where you're starting to see this bottleneck, trust me, you will.
And like the other guy said. If you have someone who is ignoring fleet rules and taking away opportunity from the rest of the group, maybe it's time for them to go. It's just a game. It shouldn't have so much drama.
500 years in the future and we still look like schmucks when getting our ID photos taken...
No, Just no.
Not only does it hurt small guilds, but it's just a excuse to stay with a poorly run fleet. Ask your leader to be more of a leader or find a new fleet.
some of these cost an arm and a leg later on. just be patient. build your resources and your time to donate will come around.
Since people all have so much Expertise points, the first person who clicks it can max the slider -- on all but the newest of characters. Perhaps what we need is some way to spend Expertise -- perhaps as a way to get fleet marks, in the same vein as CXP->FM is now available on our base? That would appear to solve a lot of the problems encountered in this thread.
My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
as the mod explained that is an internal fleet problem not a game system problem... if you are part of a fleet that isn't treating you or other members fairly and giving everyone a chance to contribute than YOU need to look into finding a different/better group of people to be in a fleet with
the system is fine it's just some fleet leaders suck and Cryptic has told us over and over that they will not get involved in internal fleet politics or policies
No.... My Base is half way to Tier 3 and we have slowed down because getting to where we are, was a huge drain on resources for everyone. A lot of people only contributed skill points and dilth. because it was easy. As your fleet grows people start to run out of things. Plus, there are special projects at the botton of your fleet starbase projects that act as a large resource dump. Those take roughly 600 fleet XP points to fill up.
Look again in a month or two, when those people have run out of spare Expertise, and come back to start threads complaining Expertise costs are too high on fleet projects, and that missions give out too little Expertise, and calling for fleet/zen/dilithium store items that increase Expertise gain, etc.
we already have those no? the XP boosters do that and one you hit 50 they do it even better for expertise since your normal XP is turned into more expertise when you cap
I myself was unable to contribute to our fed side projects until around the 4 week mark, and now all of a sudden i have the resources and the 1s who were contributing before are unable to contribute, so believe me it evens out its juts patience.
Almost everyone in our fleet is of the unique mindset that we want to get through the tiers asap and it dosnt matter who contributes what as long as we get their, we have had various fleet meeting to address any concerns.
Our fleet leader after various meetings with the officers has also implemented a lottery system for ships, assets and the space and ground gear. we hold 4 lotteries a week a ship, eng, sci and mil one. Every member of the fleet is happy with this and it also stops people fleecing the available items as they can only collect their "winnings" when our leader opens the shop for them. Anyone who takes more than what they won is automatically removed from the fleet for breach of trust no questions asked, no protests - you're gone.
What i am finding in game and on the forums is a lot of problems with fleets is all of a sudden ego's take over and the badly run fleets are suddenly being found out and that is why people are complaining a lot of the time.
But as i said at the start of the post just be patient you're time to contribute and help you're fleet will come
Do you know how much Fleet Credit you get for donating XP? Your fleet should surely make a clause where only new players (to the game) contribute XP as it is easy enough for them to get it. if it was empty when you opened it would you have contributed the full 20k? as others have said look for another fleet that would welcome your contributions and actually hold off on filling projects straight away.
For example my fleet usually leave a project for 8-9 hours for other players to contribute if they can before filling it up, we also even leave messages stating who will donate what so that people can pick and choose if they like.
Limiting contributions is a bad idea because if you have a few days where a lot of people are inactive or don't have the items to donate a project won't be able to be completed, whereas if a couple of higher ups can finish a project then they should be able to to progress the starbase, its not like there is going to be a lack of projects
Warning: Mathematics ahead.
I understand what the gist of your comment is but nope, that won't be the case with expertise unless they tweak the numbers big time. I've already looked into the expertise costs for Tier 3 projects. 60k Expertise per project (500 or 1000 XP).
So let's say I only want to do the 500 XP projects, to get from Tier 3 to Tier 4 that's 47,000 XP (1500 XP each was from the starbase upgrade and shipyard/fabricator/array upgrade and use no expertise) that must be made - so run 94 projects for military, science, and engineering. That's under 17 million expertise *absolute max* to get up to Tier 4. If you're in say, a 30 player fleet that'll get you a share of 564,000 expertise. Even if you did 3 of these projects a day that means you'd only be burning through 180,000 expertise as a fleet per day. In a 30 player fleet that's a mere 6000 Expertise a day. These are the *second most expensive* projects you'll be running (if Tier 5 projects even exist you wouldn't *need* to run them to complete the base because you'd already be at XP cap). And if you wanted to be cost-effective you could just run 1000 XP projects and cut your total expertise requirements by half!
My main Fed has well over 20 million expertise alone and I'm sure on my other characters I could probably personally bankroll all expertise from now until totally completing Tier 5. Combined with the rest of my fleetmates, this is the one currency that we basically *can't* run out of unless they make a change. The only time I have spent any outside of starbase projects is to train a bridge officer and that's a drop in the ocean.
My STOwiki page | Reachable in-game @PhyrexianHero
Fed Armada: Section 31 (level 730, 2700+ members)
KDF Armada: Klingon Intelligence (level 699, 2100+ members)
We started as a small federation fleet and had a harsh contribution policy. Projects were distributed among teams. There was a science team, an engineering team, a tactical team. Needed resources were split evenly between team members. Upgrades were done togheter but everyone had equal share. Specials were done by volunteers. (Noone was forced to pay for tribbles) The low XP specials were avoided to save resources, thinking ahead.
This system worked well, for the people who were there when S6 hit, and learned these rules. New recruits had diffculties, late comers were annoyed by the low amount of fleet credit they could earn, and their position on the leaderboard. They had trouble conforming to the rule. This sytem needed specific rules to work. Projects had exact schedules, rights to contribute were given only at specific times, and contributions were closely monitored, one could use more than one toon to donate, but still to the extent of one's share as a player.
All this resulted that dedicated players had reserved contribution opportunity. So, the advie that the OP needs better leaderhsip, is not abad one. More casual or superficial players were alienated, though, thus preventing some resources to be used. Than there appeared the guys who came back after holidays, or from other games, former players. They had hard time understanding what's going on, and why.
Compared to this I had some kdf toons in a klingon fleet. There, no rules were in effect, whatsoever. The very moment the starbase project became available, one player already had 250k fleetcredits. Projects were filled chaotically, by chance, competing for every credit. Only a few times did I manage to contribute at all, in odd hours, if I was there when a project just finished. So I felt many things. First annoyment that I can't contriubute although I had the resources. Than a certain disgust, seeing unhindered human greed in action. It is one thing to know that everyone plays the game for his own benefit, and another one to witness it in a contribution race. That just made it more ... visible and clear. And also, this lack of leaderhisp, or rules resulted in projects hanging there for hours sometims for days, lacking duty officers and dilithium. Naturally this system, or lack of it made me look down on this fleet.
But as many people stated here, once T2 approached, things started to change. First, I have to say, that the fed fleet advanced more quickly, in spite of it's inner limitations, and lesser member count. When a member had to fill his share, he/she had to have all necessary resources. So there never was a lack of doffs, or dilithium. People knew what they are going to spend, and they did prepare for it. This resulted in an even leaderboard, what made competition pretty much irrelevant. Sure, it was not a perfect system, sometimes the more active members hads to help out thus gaining a small lead, but noone felt wronged. This proves that organization is a good thing. It also has it's price. Instead of a chaotic bunch of players, it was well organized teams working for a goal. Key word being working. Team members had to do their share every day, and that started to wore people out. Some were working over their real capacity, burning up stocks, others felt restricted, and wanted an even faster pace. All this started to show after military, science and engineering upgrades II were finished and project requirements increased, while member count remained the same, or even reduced a bit because of fatique.
In the mean time, the klingon fleet advanced too. It did stumble and even halt for a time. Yet it started to advance again. The very peole who rushed to the top of the leaderboard, suddenly stopped. New players took their place, even project leaders changed. Even now, projects still stand unfullfilled many times, lacking dilithium, and doffs. But somehow, they do complete after a day or two. Than new ones are started.
My dismissing view of the KDF fleet has changed. I can see it work, even without any organization. it is not optimal, and it could advance sensibly faster having a stronger leadership. But even without it, as a fleet of players lacking any real cohesion, it still manages to get by. While on the federation part, more and more time is spent on meetings, regarding new challanges and everyday problems. Ego's clash, real life interests and game interests mingle and sometimes result in an explosive atmosphere. The federation fleet is still ahead, but member count disparity starts to show.
I even arrived to the conclusion, that simply, there is a limit below reaching T4 is simply not a realistic goal. I am in doubt now, that a fleet of 10-12 active daily players can reach this goal in any real time. Ultimatley it all comes down to the total cost of the given starbase tier, and the number of people contributing. Clearly, if there are many members, the personal cost. the share of one is that much less. What raises the question for everyone ... how much this starbase is worth to me ? Because it really is not my property, so it is not an investment. One can be kicked form a fleet. And while one retains the fleet credits, these credits have relative value. Will my serious efforts to contribute building a starbase, one that naturally will feel as my own, be taken away from me at the whim of an admiral ? Given the quantity of contributions needed, fleets became like companies, where the military structure is really not suited, where the shareholder status should be more relevant, while it really isn't. This has some emotional value, anyway, because the starbase is not a factory. You can't directly sell products. Or can you ?
Can anyone tell explain how a fleet gets its xp points to get tiers???
Sincerely,
Sa'Chang
We also actively support our lower FC members providing them with free doffs to contribute during this time period and run frequent special projects to encourage their development in the fleet.
For example for our tier 3 completion party we gave out free green operations and engineer doffs to members to contribute to the upcoming project and ran fun little games where everyone could win items and gear.
So far to my knowledge there has been very little drama, we all get on and work together to not only build our base but support our little community.
So that the longer serving members don't get left out we also have free for all projects where anyone can contribute without a time limit.
It is really hard to come up with a solid system that can't be abused and contribution limits may well solve that but by getting fleet members involved and making them feel like part of the gang they do seem to want to play by the rules more. Obviously this is not the perfect solution for everyone because some people are always going to want to try and buck the system but it does seem to work for us.
You get 1000 Fleet XP for each upgrade project, so to start tier 1 for your starbase, you need to first upgrade one of the sections (military/engineering/science) to tier 1.
TRIBBLE | -Show Me Your Critz-
Svarog | Veles | et al.