New Company Policy: Make everyone angry?

mexxxme · August 2012

I've noticed a trend lately -mostly related to DOFFs and Fleet Bases

I don't understand the policy/decision making process behind these things.

Are you trying to see how angry you can get people before they ragequit? Or are you simply ignoring the public outcry on all these issues?

Is PWE strongarming you guys into this situation?

What is going on with my game???

I'm not trying to bash anyone - I'm simply deeply concerned at -what appears to me to be- a series of very poor choices - effectively alienating a large percentage of the gaming base.

kingofhearts888 · August 2012

i agree, I've noticed that every patch goes farther and farther from what the player base wants. Do they think they will make more money by making everyone upset and eventually leaving to play another game? Its absolutely ridiculous.

voporak · August 2012

Read the Rules of Aquisition my friend. They're all about profit. A company is in the end out to make money. If it means losing people for more profit, they'll do it. And considering this is a Star Trek game, maybe the employee handbook is the rules of Aquisition?

They have made a lot of questionable choices lately, completely going against what the community wants, and we're all concerned. But unfortunately that's life with PWE and Cryptic. But seriously... they need to start listening to their playerbase more and it will help relieve the huge amounts of raging against Cryptic and/or PWE.

mkilczewski · August 2012

You guys are crazy. Didn't you hear what Dan said in Vegas? Season six is awsome! The game is growing exponentially! Eventually STO will spawn a race of atomic, supermen, and conquer the world! Everybody knows people can't lie when they're in Vegas! It's against the law! Right?

voporak · August 2012

mkilczewski wrote: »

You guys are crazy. Didn't you hear what Dan said in Vegas? Season six is awsome! The game is growing exponentially! Eventually STO will spawn a race of atomic, supermen, and conquer the world! Everybody knows people can't lie when they're in Vegas! It's against the law! Right?

yeah. sure.

kingofhearts888 · August 2012

If i was super happy with the direction the game was going, I'd be super ready to spend some real money and buy some items from the Zen store. But with the way it is, whats the point. There's nothing on there that I want and even if I did kinda want it, I wouldn't want to support their poor decision making. For example:

Players want end game content --- result -- More grinding a same few missions over and over

Players want more KDF content -- result -- Federation uniforms and clone federation ships

Players want a fun, Starbase system to work at -- result -- Grind based, biased advancement starbase system, with ridiculous requirements like 60- white sensors officers or 250 romulan ale

Players want a rewarding pvp system -- result -- NOTHING AT ALL

Players want more episodic content -- result -- We'll highlight some foundry mission and give you nothing good for completing it

jexsamx · August 2012

kingofhearts888 wrote: »

i agree, I've noticed that every patch goes farther and farther from what the player base wants. Do they think they will make more money by making everyone upset and eventually leaving to play another game? Its absolutely ridiculous.

Probably because the player base keeps asking for things that break the intended rate of starbase progression, like the broken marks on Nukara that got fixed, or the DOffs from starbases being reused in them. For some reason people get mad when these problems get fixed.

I do really wish they'd mark fleet DOffs somehow, though, as the potential to buy a DOff you can't even use in starbases off the exchange is indeed a painfully aggravating thing.

mkilczewski · August 2012

kingofhearts888 wrote: »

If i was super happy with the direction the game was going, I'd be super ready to spend some real money and buy some items from the Zen store. But with the way it is, whats the point. There's nothing on there that I want and even if I did kinda want it, I wouldn't want to support their poor decision making. For example:

Players want end game content --- result -- More grinding a same few missions over and over

Players want more KDF content -- result -- Federation uniforms and clone federation ships

Players want a fun, Starbase system to work at -- result -- Grind based, biased advancement starbase system, with ridiculous requirements like 60- white sensors officers or 250 romulan ale

Players want a rewarding pvp system -- result -- NOTHING AT ALL

Players want more episodic content -- result -- We'll highlight some foundry mission and give you nothing good for completing it

I just want some fricken' beets in my replicator.

kingofhearts888 · August 2012

So what you are saying is, the playerbase is wrong for wanting these things and Cryptic knows whats fun and we dont

phyrexianhero · August 2012

I've posted on the issue with fleet doffs and think if Zero was correct in that its working as intended then they've made a major mistake. It's just bad business.

kingofhearts888 · August 2012

If the company I worked for acted like Cryptic, we'd be out of business in a month.

Customer: Can you repair this particular unit, its not functioning?

Me: No, its working as intended, its not supposed to function, I will fix an unrelated issue that isn't important, and I will also break a few things in your business while I'm there. Now pay me money.

jexsamx · August 2012

kingofhearts888 wrote: »

So what you are saying is, the playerbase is wrong for wanting these things

Yes.

kingofhearts888 wrote: »

and Cryptic knows whats fun and we dont

No.

I'm saying Cryptic knows how the system for starbases is supposed to work a lot better than we do, since they kinda designed it.

I think rather than leaving broken, exploitable TRIBBLE in the game like the Nukara Event and the Fleet DOffs, they need to expand the number of ways these things can be approached. For example, add a choice between a dilithium crate or a small fleet mark crate at the end of every story mission you replay. Additionally, reduce the cooldown on the basic recruitment missions for DOffs to help increase the flow of white ones. Finally, mark the damn fleet DOffs to avoid confusion and wasted EC. Boom, problems solved.

boglejam73 · August 2012

jexsamx wrote: »

Probably because the player base keeps asking for things that break the intended rate of starbase progression, like the broken marks on Nukara that got fixed, or the DOffs from starbases being reused in them. For some reason people get mad when these problems get fixed.

I do really wish they'd mark fleet DOffs somehow, though, as the potential to buy a DOff you can't even use in starbases off the exchange is indeed a painfully aggravating thing.

Dude, c'mon. What are you talking about.

Fleet DOFFS are working as intended,

And Fleet DOFFs weren't broken or exploitable until today.

Broken: can't be used on fleet projects.

Exploitable: Here, unknowing exchange buyer...here is a doff that can't be used for anything.

If you maintain they were epxploitable because of dilithium/recruitment upon dismissing, then the simple solution was to take away the recruitment/dilithium payback. The solution wasn't to make them totally useless in Fleet projects.

kingofhearts888 · August 2012

When it comes to games that are F2P, going against the will of the majority is usually a bad idea. Even if the will of the majority goes against their original plan of starbase advancement. Cryptic needs to be flexible and listen to the majority of the playerbase, who if they leave, the game will wither and die, and they lose their income.

mexxxme · August 2012

You're trying to argue apples VS oranges here Jex - your issues are nonsequeter to this thread - we're not talking about exploits - or the ridiculous ideas posted by *some* players.

I'm talking about the broad sweeping decisions that are upsetting a *large* cross-section of the community, *breaking* things - not fixing exploits.

Also - your arguement is flawed - because it's always possible for something to be engineered incorrectly

bloctoad · August 2012

Think about it. The only reason they removed the ability for Fleet Doffs to be used in Starbase projects is this: It was already causing or would cause a marked decline in C-Store/Zen sales. By removing this, we return to the overriding feature of Season 6: Buy more Zen!

kingofhearts888 · August 2012

Which puts us back at square 1, these are policies that might make some slight money in the short run, but are poisoning everyone against Cryptic in the long run.

boglejam73 · August 2012

mexxxme wrote: »

Also - your arguement is flawed - because it's always possible for something to be engineered incorrectly

Good point. The Titanic was unsinkable. As long as it didn't actually hit anything.

jexsamx · August 2012

mexxxme wrote: »

You're trying to argue apples VS oranges here Jex - your issues are nonsequeter to this thread - we're not talking about exploits - or the ridiculous ideas posted by *some* players.

I'm talking about the broad sweeping decisions that are upsetting a *large* cross-section of the community, *breaking* things - not fixing exploits.

Also - your arguement is flawed - because it's always possible for something to be engineered incorrectly

It is? OP specifically questioned decisions regarding DOffs and Fleet Starbases. My responses deal with issues involving both of those things, and that the playerbases has been angry about. I'm dead on topic.

And, as to my argument being "flawed". The devs trying to make their creation work as intended doesn't mean it lacks flaws, just that there's a way they want it to work, so they're trying to make it work that way. The implication wasn't that it was perfect, just that it was what they wanted.

kingofhearts888 · August 2012

jexsamx wrote: »

The implication wasn't that it was perfect, just that it was what they wanted.

They should be more concerned with what we want

mexxxme · August 2012

Yes - and the point here is - it is FAR from what the people want.

And it is the people who play, and pay for, the game.

Also - I want to know *why* these changes are being made the way they are. We've lost almost all dev trasnparency

onenonlydrock · August 2012

jexsamx wrote: »

Probably because the player base keeps asking for things that break the intended rate of starbase progression, like the broken marks on Nukara that got fixed, or the DOffs from starbases being reused in them. For some reason people get mad when these problems get fixed.

I do really wish they'd mark fleet DOffs somehow, though, as the potential to buy a DOff you can't even use in starbases off the exchange is indeed a painfully aggravating thing.

I think you're right to a point. Players want things to be easy and when a process that makes things easier is taken off they complain.

But even I have to admit that the cost to do fleet projects is sky high as is.

Fleet DOffs took the pain out of that. And now that it's gone I've got to look forward to my grind taking even longer.

I'm not happy and I can understand why players aren't thrilled with this change either.

zordar01 · August 2012

Fleet Doffs are Undine. That's why we can't use them for Starbases.

I don't do the starbase Doff grind. If I have Doffs a project needs and I'm not using him then I'll sacrifice him to the starbase gods. Otherwise, no. I'll contribute everything else, because most other stuff won't take most of my time/patience to acquire (rotgut excluded). I play STO to have fun (theoretically anyway). The moronic Doff requirements of starbase projects make doing those not fun.

We should have a category of Doff assignments called 'Fleet' that are recruitment missions for Doffs needed by starbase projects. Give them a day to complete and we can get up to 3 starbase-demanded Doffs (randomly generated out of a list of all the Doffs required by starbase projects). That sounds Trek to me. Reassigning green+ Doffs to get whites on the off-chance they'll be what we need is about as far from Trek as it gets.

Capt: "You've been doing an outstanding job, Shi'it. I'm giving you top marks for your review. I especially like that you're doing so well in Assault Weapons training."
Doff: "Thank you, sir. The other officers are calling me Tough Shi'it now."
Capt: "Sure, whatever. Anyway, I'm transferring you off the ship."
Doff: "Sir?"
Capt: "I need sensor officers for the starbase. By putting you back in the officer pool I might get one."
Doff: "So...you're not even giving me an assignment?"
Capt: "Nope. There's no noob lottery for reassigning you, just for cutting you loose."
Doff: "..."

overthetopsigh · August 2012

jexsamx wrote: »

It is? OP specifically questioned decisions regarding DOffs and Fleet Starbases. My responses deal with issues involving both of those things, and that the playerbases has been angry about. I'm dead on topic.

And, as to my argument being "flawed". The devs trying to make their creation work as intended doesn't mean it lacks flaws, just that there's a way they want it to work, so they're trying to make it work that way. The implication wasn't that it was perfect, just that it was what they wanted.

The intended use of doffs is to make them useful, the latest change has made them useless. Seems like a giant step in the wrong direction.

kingofhearts888 · August 2012

This thread wasn't specifically about any change, but if you notice, every change Cryptic has made has been completely against the will of the majority. Does anyone a Cryptic notice this? How can they not? I wonder if they truly think they are creating a sustainable product here? Or do they think that they know what we want better than we do? How could it possibly hurt them to listen to us?

sovereignman · August 2012

voporak wrote: »

Read the Rules of Aquisition my friend. They're all about profit. A company is in the end out to make money. If it means losing people for more profit, they'll do it. And considering this is a Star Trek game, maybe the employee handbook is the rules of Aquisition?

If the gruesome twosome read the RoA, they're doing it wrong.

Watering down drinks only works if they come back for more.

But that's a lowly way of making a buck.

The real money is in having an inventory of bajoran distilled Kanar when its not kosher to have.

*Ferengi lobepalm*

mexxxme · August 2012

That's my biggest issue - this is meant to be a feedback forum - are they listening to us, or just shrugging us off?

kingofhearts888 · August 2012

all we ask for is some sanity, give the people what we want and we will dish out the cash, I am not going to buy another Zen until i can spend it on some new KDF stuff, and I know a lot of other players with the same mentality

captainbrown2 · August 2012

jexsamx wrote: »

Probably because the player base keeps asking for things that break the intended rate of starbase progression, like the broken marks on Nukara that got fixed, or the DOffs from starbases being reused in them. For some reason people get mad when these problems get fixed.

I do really wish they'd mark fleet DOffs somehow, though, as the potential to buy a DOff you can't even use in starbases off the exchange is indeed a painfully aggravating thing.

You can't really break the rate of progression its time gated.

mikefl · August 2012

We just tested a theory... I can post fleet officers for sale on the exchange and the person that buys them can't use them either. So a deflector officer earned from the fleet doff program can't be used even though its in the list with other deflector officers. Unless they have different names (and I don't know if that's even the case) and you know the names you're going to get screwed. I don't know how they can tell them apart and at the very least we should be informed so we can understand when a project comes up what we have and what we don't have. I had all my officers ready for my three projects on my private fleet today only to find out I can't use them. I did however sell some of them and maybe when people get upset for wasting energy credits they will change it. Major TRIBBLE up Cryptic!

mkilczewski · August 2012

mexxxme wrote: »

That's my biggest issue - this is meant to be a feedback forum - are they listening to us, or just shrugging us off?

The feedback forums are working as intended.

New Company Policy: Make everyone angry?

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