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Heartfelt plea - hold off on tomorrow's patch

johhannejohhanne Member Posts: 41 Arc User
Please -do not put in a situation where:

Fleet doffs cannot be contributed to projects
Fleet doffs can be put on the exchange
There is no way to tell on the exchange which doff is a fleet doff

leading to:

buying doffs for a project that turn out to be worthless.

This will kill fleet starbases faster than anything. I have been buying the odd doff - no longer. Not will I spend over 400,000 ec on a sensor officer and not even be certain whether can I use it.... and when the only way to recoup my loss would be to similarly dupe another player.

Make the fleet doffs be able to be contributed to projects or make them unable to be put on the exchange

Anything else is a recipe for disaster.

Jo
Post edited by johhanne on
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Comments

  • latinumbarlatinumbar Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Or, there needs to be a way to tell the difference between a fleet doff and a non-fleet doff.
    _____________________
    Come join the 44th Fleet.
    startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • syberghostsyberghost Member Posts: 1,711 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Moved to the Duty Officer System Feedback forum, where the appropriate eyes are more likely to see it.
    Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
  • kalanikalani Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    syberghost wrote: »
    Moved to the Duty Officer System Feedback forum, where the appropriate eyes are more likely to see it.

    I don't mean any disrespect in saying this but as this patch is being moved forward anyway the most appropriate eyes to the see it now are the people who read the general forum and will be buying these "bad DOffs" tomorrow.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • matteo716maikaimatteo716maikai Member Posts: 823
    edited August 2012
    i dont see this specific note in the patch notes....
  • johhannejohhanne Member Posts: 41 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    kalani2 wrote: »
    I don't mean any disrespect in saying this but as this patch is being moved forward anyway the most appropriate eyes to the see it now are the people who read the general forum and will be buying these "bad DOffs" tomorrow.


    Yes it really did not need moving :(
  • badname834854badname834854 Member Posts: 1,186 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    johhanne wrote: »
    Please -do not put in a situation where:

    Fleet doffs cannot be contributed to projects
    Fleet doffs can be put on the exchange
    There is no way to tell on the exchange which doff is a fleet doff

    leading to:

    buying doffs for a project that turn out to be worthless.

    This will kill fleet starbases faster than anything. I have been buying the odd doff - no longer. Not will I spend over 400,000 ec on a sensor officer and not even be certain whether can I use it.... and when the only way to recoup my loss would be to similarly dupe another player.

    Make the fleet doffs be able to be contributed to projects or make them unable to be put on the exchange

    Anything else is a recipe for disaster.

    Jo


    Working as intended.





    :P
  • boglejam73boglejam73 Member Posts: 890 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Working as intended.





    :P

    From now on, whenever I do something incredibly stupid, and someone looks at me as if I am a complete and total moron, I'm going to look them straight in the face and say....

    "working as intended."

    That way, it will seem as if whatever really incredibly stupid thing I just did (like gimping the entire existence of the Fleet DOFF vendor for example) is actually a clever, well thought-out plan and not just some random s**t someone decided to pull because they felt that the dilithium time gate and the crazy scarcity of certain DOFFs AND the longgggg project completion time gate weren't suffcient hurdles to progress already.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • soulwarrior78soulwarrior78 Member Posts: 541 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Ok, I tested this on Tribble and nothing has changed, so it leads me to believe you are misinterpreting the patch notes. Let's review them shall we:
    Fleet Duty Officers:
    The variety of Duty Officers received by opening packs has increased.
    Fleet Duty Officers will not grant Recruitment CXP and Dilithium when dismissed.
    Fleet Reports:
    Updated "Espionage Report" to correct the odds calculations, so it's now uniform with other success/crit odds.
    All Report assignments now require a specific Specialization, instead of having some require this while others accepted any Officer from a specific department.
    The following assignments were affected by this change:
    Development Report
    Engineering Report
    Marauding Report
    Military Report
    Science Report

    For the 1st part, "Fleet Duty Officers will not grant Recruitment CXP and Dilithium when dismissed." that simply means that the doffs you open from the fleet packs will no longer grant Recruitment Commendation XP nor Dilithium when you dismiss them. Right now you can buy a lot of them and either sell them on the exchange OR you get CXP/dilithium for each doff that you dismiss. They're just trying to stop people from farming Dilithium/CXP from dismissing those specific fleet doffs.

    For the 2nd part, "All Report assignments now require a specific Specialization, instead of having some require this while others accepted any Officer from a specific department." that simply means that you can't complete the "Military Report" with your medical doffs for instance, since Medical has nothing to do with Military. To complete the "Military Report" you'll need Security Officer, Armory Officer, etc.

    Nothing has changed. You can still use the doffs you open from the fleet packs to either sell them on the exchange or contribute them to your fleet.
  • boglejam73boglejam73 Member Posts: 890 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Ok, I tested this on Tribble and nothing has changed, so it leads me to believe you are misinterpreting the patch notes. Let's review them shall we:


    For the 1st part, "Fleet Duty Officers will not grant Recruitment CXP and Dilithium when dismissed." that simply means that the doffs you open from the fleet packs will no longer grant Recruitment Commendation XP nor Dilithium when you dismiss them. Right now you can buy a lot of them and either sell them on the exchange OR you get CXP/dilithium for each doff that you dismiss. They're just trying to stop people from farming Dilithium/CXP from dismissing those specific fleet doffs.

    For the 2nd part, "All Report assignments now require a specific Specialization, instead of having some require this while others accepted any Officer from a specific department." that simply means that you can't complete the "Military Report" with your medical doffs for instance, since Medical has nothing to do with Military. To complete the "Military Report" you'll need Security Officer, Armory Officer, etc.

    Nothing has changed. You can still use the doffs you open from the fleet packs to either sell them on the exchange or contribute them to your fleet.

    umm, no. You missed the point, Sparky. The things we are complaining about aren't ON THE TRIBBLE PATCH NOTES. We can't misinterpret information not provided, although you can apparently misinterpret every post in this thread. When the issues were encountered and reported as a bug, we were told its not a bug - it was intentional.

    Lemme clear this up for you:

    Lets say I need 30 security officers for a fleet project. I buy a bunch of common doffs from the Fleet Doff vendor using fleet credits. I unpack the DOFFs and I have 3 shiny new security DOFFs.

    HUZZAH!

    Open up the fleet project...and can't contribute them. They will not work on a Fleet project..even thou I bought them from the fleet DOFF vendor using fleet credits.

    wut?

    And then to make it worse, I can now post these 3 Fleet-bought security DOFFs on the exchange at the current hugely artificially wonked price that they are going for and sell them to some poor shlepp who thinks he is buying them for use on his fleet project. Only... you guessed it... he can't contribute them to his project either and he has no way to determine that these fleet security doffs are not the same as the regular common security DOFFs that can be used for fleet projects.

    Otherwise, great work. Your write up was a spot-on analysis of how absolutely nothing has changed. Exept for all the stuff thats changed.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • levi3levi3 Member Posts: 1,663 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    boglejam73 wrote: »
    umm, no. You missed the point, Sparky. The things we are complaining about aren't ON THE TRIBBLE PATCH NOTES. We can't misinterpret information not provided, although you can apparently misinterpret every post in this thread. When the issues were encountered and reported as a bug, we were told its not a bug - it was intentional.

    Lemme clear this up for you:

    Lets say I need 30 security officers for a fleet project. I buy a bunch of common doffs from the Fleet Doff vendor using fleet credits. I unpack the DOFFs and I have 3 shiny new security DOFFs.

    HUZZAH!

    Open up the fleet project...and can't contribute them. They will not work on a Fleet project..even thou I bought them from the fleet DOFF vendor using fleet credits.

    wut?

    And then to make it worse, I can now post these 3 Fleet-bought security DOFFs on the exchange at the current hugely artificially wonked price that they are going for and sell them to some poor shlepp who thinks he is buying them for use on his fleet project. Only... you guessed it... he can't contribute them to his project either and he has no way to determine that these fleet security doffs are not the same as the regular common security DOFFs that can be used for fleet projects.

    Otherwise, great work. Your write up was a spot-on analysis of how absolutely nothing has changed. Exept for all the stuff thats changed.

    Bogle this is my post from the tribble thread:
    levi3 wrote: »
    You have to admit its an awesome response: "working as intended"

    Its like when a Predator drone drops a hellfire on a aftgan village - and they ask the control guys at the CIA what when wrong : "working as intended"

    or

    when the US election with Florida's "new" electontic voting system displays that 15,000 votes were for Romney in the district - but the are only 1500 eligable voters - what's up? "working as intended"

    I love it!

    "Working as Intended" poetic
  • boglejam73boglejam73 Member Posts: 890 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Yep, "Working as intended" is the new "soon."

    Maybe we can start a new ESD meme?

    Where's Sulu? He is working as intended.

    Where do I go to get promoted? Quinns office - as intended.

    The possibilities are endless.

    PS: I have decided I really like the word "Huzzah" and would appreciate it if more people would try to fit it into conversation/posts. Thanks.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • fiberteksyfirfiberteksyfir Member Posts: 1,207 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    boglejam73 wrote: »
    Yep, "Working as intended" is the new "soon."

    Maybe we can start a new ESD meme?

    Where's Sulu? He is working as intended.

    Where do I go to get promoted? Quinns office - as intended.

    The possibilities are endless.

    PS: I have decided I really like the word "Huzzah" and would appreciate it if more people would try to fit it into conversation/posts. Thanks.

    HUZZAH They're going through with the patch anyways. Curious to see the number of "I can't contribute my doffs to project" threads that pop up tomorrow...

    Usually I'll throw Cryptic a bone/give'em the benefit of the doubt on most issues people complain about.. but this actually defeats the purpose of the fleet DOFF vendors to begin with doesn't it?

    And forgive me as I haven't tried.. if they can't be contributed to bases can they at least be grinded?
  • mav75mav75 Member Posts: 113 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    johhanne wrote: »
    Please -do not put in a situation where:

    Fleet doffs cannot be contributed to projects
    Fleet doffs can be put on the exchange
    There is no way to tell on the exchange which doff is a fleet doff

    leading to:

    buying doffs for a project that turn out to be worthless.

    This will kill fleet starbases faster than anything. I have been buying the odd doff - no longer. Not will I spend over 400,000 ec on a sensor officer and not even be certain whether can I use it.... and when the only way to recoup my loss would be to similarly dupe another player.

    Make the fleet doffs be able to be contributed to projects or make them unable to be put on the exchange

    Anything else is a recipe for disaster.

    Jo

    This is not even funny.
  • kilemorgankilemorgan Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    If true i find it rude (being kind) that they do not list this change in the notes.
  • thibashthibash Member Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    kilemorgan wrote: »
    If true i find it rude (being kind) that they do not list this change in the notes.

    I would say what I think of it, but I'm pretty sure that calling the game developers incompetent isn't going to help things. Then again, they're not listening to us now, so why not?

    THIS IS JUST A BUG THAT THEY'RE TOO LAZY TO FIX!

    If it wasn't, it'd be in the patch notes. If it wasn't, you wouldn't be able to still sell those doffs on the Exchange.

    Either they contribute fully, or they don't contribute at all. But half-half...sorry, not buying the working as intended TRIBBLE.
  • levi3levi3 Member Posts: 1,663 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    You know the "working as intended" joke was the response from the Dev on the tribble thread when someone pointed out that they were were no longer contributable.
  • boglejam73boglejam73 Member Posts: 890 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    HUZZAH

    Appreciated.

    And its not a bug that they are too lazy to correct. If anything, it is a poorly thought-thru decision based on someones faulty logic that the current way the Fleet Doffs work would lead to abuse of either dilithium grinding or recruitment cxp.

    Not being able to slot them into a fleet project may concievably be a bug, but when it was bug reported on the Tribble forum, the "working as intended" dev response didn't diferentiate between dil/cxp or not slotting for fleet projects as being the part that was working as ntended, implying both are.

    So I went ahead and bougt like 600 of these DOFFS last night and traded them in for recruitment and dil. I won't have to grind any dilithium for a week now.

    Take that, working as intended.

    Huzzah.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • kobayashlmarukobayashlmaru Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I wonder why they didn't simply increase the cost of the DOff's instead of all this.
    Kobayashi Maru
    Join Date: Sept 2008


    "Holographic tissue paper for the holographic runny nose. Don't give them to patients." - The Doctor
  • badname834854badname834854 Member Posts: 1,186 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    What makes the "working as intended" meme so tractful is that its just a common boilerplate response when something often ISN'T working as intended, but a dev team isn't aware yet. But as often par for the course in the debug team, features simply get removed rather than fixed. "Huzzah! We fixed the Jem'Hadar shield by removing one of it's features! Fixed!!!!!1111!"

    A blatant oversight like the Fleet Doffs getting into the wild would never have happened, oh, several months ago....
  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    These fleets doffs are a mistake. They should have stayed to a warfare specialists vendor or new specialities/active roster power vendors.

    Preventing people from using them in the SB is a good thing. Doffing is safe. Fleet doffs almost killed that, but they forgot that they had to balance the feature.

    Anyway don't expect these doffs to be able to be used in SB projects, they are selling doffs, and doffs for fleet credits are a way to get a ton of doffs for no cost but 30 mins of starbase incursion/starbase fleet defense with your fleetmates and a special project (let's say colonists, they are free). Their wallet is in danger if they allow that. There are already plenty of easy ways to get free doffs (including a bunch of whites, I could make 100-200 of them on a daily basis without putting my high quality roster at risk), but it's something only doffers can do for now, because they know how the system works. It's somewhat balanced at the moment, the prices on the exchange dropped but indicates that there is still a high demand for security. People who want to rush their shipyard will either have to pay a ton of energy credits (it might be turned into c-store suff they will sell on the exchange) or doff packs from the store. They have no interest in breaking that balance, and this feature is a proof of that.
    Lenny Barre, lvl 60 DC. 18k.
    God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
  • boglejam73boglejam73 Member Posts: 890 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    diogene0 wrote: »
    Preventing people from using them in the SB is a good thing.

    No. No, it isn't.

    Not even close to good. Tighten up your helmets chinstrap and rethink your entire position.

    And having no way to distingish between a Fleet DOFF and a regular DOFF (one being useless for projects, one being useful for projects) is INCREDIBLY STUPID since both can be listed on the exchange.

    If I bought some overpriced common doff on the exchange wanting to use it for a project, and then discovered I couldn't because it is a fleet vendor DOFF, I'd be crazy angry.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    boglejam73 wrote: »
    No. No, it isn't.

    Not even close to good. Tighten up your helmets chinstrap and rethink your entire position.

    And having no way to distingish between a Fleet DOFF and a regular DOFF (one being useless for projects, one being useful for projects) is INCREDIBLY STUPID since both can be listed on the exchange.

    If I bought some overpriced common doff on the exchange wanting to use it for a project, and then discovered I couldn't because it is a fleet vendor DOFF, I'd be crazy angry.

    I didn't say that giving regular doffs was a smart thing. Read my post. ;)

    They should have sticked to warfare specialists.
    Lenny Barre, lvl 60 DC. 18k.
    God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
  • boglejam73boglejam73 Member Posts: 890 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    diogene0 wrote: »
    I didn't say that giving regular doffs was a smart thing. Read my post. ;)

    They should have sticked to warfare specialists.

    I read your post. Its crazy talk.

    Warfare specialists, for people who are in small fleets and trying to scrape together doffs to complete projects, are totally worthless. They aren't a project input, unlike common security and sensor doffs.

    The entire reason fleet DOFF vendor was introduced was to give people with crazy amounts of fleet credits something useful to spend them on. Fleet DOFFs that can be used to advance fleet projects are useful. Ones that can't be used to advance fleet projects aren't.

    And you still haven't grasped the inpact this will have on the exchange apparently. Maybe you should re-read my post? and maybe all of the other ones in this thread not written by you? Then you'll see what the problems are.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • pointedearspointedears Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    diogene0 wrote: »

    Preventing people from using them in the SB is a good thing. Doffing is safe. Fleet doffs almost killed that, but they forgot that they had to balance the feature.

    .

    Cant tell if serious or trolling ? :confused:
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • boglejam73boglejam73 Member Posts: 890 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Cant tell if serious or trolling ? :confused:

    gotta be trolling. Or non-native English speaker confused about the definition of "good" and "smart."

    or maybe the bizarro-world version of that guy posted?

    Either way, its working as intended! :D
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • defalusdefalus Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    boglejam73 wrote: »
    gotta be trolling. Or non-native English speaker confused about the definition of "good" and "smart."

    or maybe the bizarro-world version of that guy posted?

    Either way, its working as intended! :D

    You forgot Huzzah!:eek:

    But for what it's worth, +1 on the OP's plea. Making these doffs non-useable for starbase projects and allowing them to be sold on the exchange is a bad move. We need a solid, easy at a glance way to tell fleet doffs from normal doffs, and I say that because some people can't tell the difference between a KDF and a Fed doff.:D
    __________________________________________________
  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Cant tell if serious or trolling ? :confused:

    Serious. Doffing is one of my favourite part of the game. If it was too easy to get new usefull doffs, it would be dead.

    You guys should take some distance with the starbase stuff. You don't need it. You want it. Okay, but it's not a race, and it's supposed to take months, not to allow a 10 guys fleet to fill a project in 10 seconds. It's not the end of the world if it takes you 14 months instead of 12 to reach the T5 level.

    You know what? I'll be able to buy the next 5 lockbox ships because you guys are badly rushing your shipyards to get a T5 one asap and thus byuing my doffs like crzay. And lockbox ships are better than what you get at any shipyard tier. :D

    It's not trolling, it's just rational statements. I'm not saying cryptic is right in any way, I'm just saying that:

    - they remembered that their new stuff would kill an interesting part of the game and tried to limit the damages this feature would make.
    - it won't change because there is money behind it. They didn't make that because they are idealists, obviously. Consequently, complaning about it and ask for a change on this point (fleet doffs can't be used for SB projects) is pointless. But I guess that the rest is negociable.
    boglejam73 wrote: »
    gotta be trolling. Or non-native English speaker confused about the definition of "good" and "smart."

    or maybe the bizarro-world version of that guy posted?

    Either way, its working as intended! :D

    No confusion. Nothing weird. My post was just some sort of "get better at it", since the doff system already allows you to get almost without efforts 100 white doffs a day per char. I just don't like saying "get better at it", it sounds too arrogant. But the doff system can be easily tricked. You just have to know that tricks.
    Lenny Barre, lvl 60 DC. 18k.
    God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
  • mirai222mirai222 Member Posts: 337 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    diogene0 wrote: »
    You know what? I'll be able to buy the next 5 lockbox ships because you guys are badly rushing your shipyards to get a T5 one asap and thus byuing my doffs like crzay.

    They might not want to buy your DOffs before long. If they can't tell the difference between your DOffs and the fleet DOffs on the Exchange, and they can't use the fleet DOffs, they might stop buying DOffs from the Exchange. Too risky.
  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    mirai222 wrote: »
    They might not want to buy your DOffs before long. If they can't tell the difference between your DOffs and the fleet DOffs on the Exchange, and they can't use the fleet DOffs, they might stop buying DOffs from the Exchange. Too risky.

    I know. That's why the solution the devs would be ready to accept are:
    - An UI change
    - Removing the fleet doff feature

    The second one is the easiest to achieve. But I'm almost certain that they will never allow the fleet doffs to be used in the starbase projects.
    Lenny Barre, lvl 60 DC. 18k.
    God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
  • pointedearspointedears Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    defalus wrote: »
    You forgot Huzzah!:eek:

    But for what it's worth, +1 on the OP's plea. Making these doffs non-useable for starbase projects and allowing them to be sold on the exchange is a bad move. We need a solid, easy at a glance way to tell fleet doffs from normal doffs, and I say that because some people can't tell the difference between a KDF and a Fed doff.:D

    Back to STFs it is then :P
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This discussion has been closed.