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Borticus: revert PSW3 changes ASAP!!!

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  • aetam1aetam1 Member Posts: 228 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Yes many Sci skills need some love. The great strength of STO is that you have so many options for skill layouts. But that is lost if you have only about two skills working.
    Now for PvE there is about one useful skill: Gravity Well
    If you want to do blockade there is also Tractor Beam Repulsors.
    And in some instances maybe a Tractor Beam.

    Now for PvP... well it depends. VM seems fine and is used very often. GW3 and Tykens3 combined can be some fun and TBR is useful.

    And if you have an Orb try GW3, VM1, WP1 and maybe a mine on top. It works rather well.

    My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
  • lpthomasmariklpthomasmarik Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    venetar90 wrote: »
    Damn, borticus aka Jeremy you sure have an attitude on you...may e we should just have branflakes filter your responses to us from now on.

    Maybe we should have Branflakes filter our responses.
  • snoge00fsnoge00f Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    husanakx wrote: »
    Well if that is the case who is your direct superior so we can make our petition for your time to him / her ?

    PWE. The ones who own his company and decide where the game goes from now on.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Clarification, please...

    I'm listening to your feedback (yes, even the rude and insulting stuff, amazingly enough), but I'd like to know for certain: Which of the following do you feel is -more- accurate?

    1) You feel that these powers are flat-out ineffective. (PvE and PvP)
    -or-
    2) You feel that these powers are ineffective against players that have high resists to them. (PvP)

    Both. Many science skills are more or less useless under level 3, and players who have resistances against these skills makes the level 3 useless too. Even our SNB can be resisted with a poor level 1 BO skill, which is a shame. There is no other carreer with so many cheap counters to its abilities. Shield drain? No problem, 6000 skill points in power insulator and the problem is solved. Tractor beam? 3 levels in intertial dampeners and you barely feel the level 3.

    The science counter skills need two things :
    - being effective even at level 1. Using a tyken's rift 1 should make sense for instance.
    - being more expensive to resist. Tacs are incredibly expensive to counter (amors, shields, healing abilities, etc). Scis are pretty easy tocounter for almost no cost.

    Something I'd like to see too:
    - The level 3 SNB should require a level 3 science team to be cleaned up.
    Lenny Barre, lvl 60 DC. 18k.
    God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
  • francescos77francescos77 Member Posts: 122 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Amount of money I've spent on this game since release: probably around 6.000,00 USD
    Amount of money I will spend on this game until PSW and other science abilities are fixed: 0,000000000000000000000000000000000000000
  • dontdrunkimshootdontdrunkimshoot Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Amount of money I've spent on this game since release: probably around 6.000,00 USD
    Amount of money I will spend on this game until PSW and other science abilities are fixed: 0,000000000000000000000000000000000000000

    http://www.gamblersanonymous.org/ga/

    aside from the life time, i doubt ive spent $100. CHRIST dude.
  • francescos77francescos77 Member Posts: 122 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    http://www.gamblersanonymous.org/ga/

    aside from the life time, i doubt ive spent $100. CHRIST dude.

    It's a game, not gambling. Don't you know the difference?
    A good ski or tennis equipment costs the same.
  • reconalpha1reconalpha1 Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    i think all science powers need a general buff.

    The problem with improving any Bridge Officer ability (Science or Engineering) is that it would give the wild card known as the Birds of Prey a superior advantage than its Federation counter parts.

    It is the only ship in the game that can mount Dual Heavy canons and has access to Lt. Com and Commander Level Sci and Engineering abilities and has the maneuverability to use it far more effectively than its federation counterparts.

    Science ships and Cruisers each have limitations as to how their upper level bridge officer?s abilities can be used

    Federation Cruisers have a low speed and turn rate so as to not make Eject Warp Plasma and Aceton Beam too effective to apply

    Federation Science ships were limited to only 6 weapon slots and not have the ability to mount Dual or Dual Heavy Canons to limit the damage output when using high level Bridge Officer abilities.

    Unfortunately the Bird of Prey smashes those limitations with its maneuverability and Weapon Selections.

    I believe that?s why Sci Abilities had to be scaled back to give the non-BoPs a better chance to survive an attack from them.

    That?s why I love my Bird of Prey

    I am going to miss my 30,000+[Dam] Photonic Shock Wave III Dual Heavy Canon combo

    :(

    That my friend cannot be done with any Federation Science ship
  • matteo716maikaimatteo716maikai Member Posts: 823
    edited August 2012
    The problem with improving any Bridge Officer ability (Science or Engineering) is that it would give the wild card known as the Birds of Prey a superior advantage than its Federation counter parts.

    im willing to take that risk if it means science gets fixed.

    it then becomes a matter of balancing ONE ship type instead of an entire CLASS type.
  • shimmerlessshimmerless Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I love the BoP too (sue me, I'm a convert), recon, but I don't think there's ever going to be a universe you can call the thing overpowered, lol. Both the Hegh'ta and the B'rel have the same number of weapons as a Fed Sciboat (six) while carrying the burden of having the lowest base hull, a terrible shield mod, the loss of a BOff slot etc.

    I don't want to derail the thread but honestly I can't see the balancing of Sci skills having to worry about or take into consideration the BoP much. Goes double when you consider that the Fleet Nova can duplicate the best SciBoP builds without being a frail paper tiger.
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  • reconalpha1reconalpha1 Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I can't see the balancing of Sci skills having to worry about or take into consideration the BoP much.

    How else do you think this OOPS was discovered?
    Do you really think that it was a KDF player that noticed this and reported it.

    I don?t think so.

    It was most likely Fed Players that noticed it when they were Alpha struck from a BoP and reported it.

    It is one of the BoP MO after all.
  • clintsatclintsat Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I think a huge problem with science abilities is that they are buffed by Tac Captain abilities and not buffed by Sci Captain abilities.

    If you gave Sci Captains a passive bonus to damage or effectiveness to sci abilities...they would be a lot more useful and would make the sci captain something other than a Subnuker (which is almost worthless in PVE).
  • dradymdradym Member Posts: 38 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    i just think sensors, stealth, and threat should all be merged into a single, first tier, sci skill. that is all.
  • zeuxidemus001zeuxidemus001 Member Posts: 3,357 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Clarification, please...

    I'm listening to your feedback (yes, even the rude and insulting stuff, amazingly enough), but I'd like to know for certain: Which of the following do you feel is -more- accurate?

    1) You feel that these powers are flat-out ineffective. (PvE and PvP)
    -or-
    2) You feel that these powers are ineffective against players that have high resists to them. (PvP)

    TBH not trying to be rude here but with the small radius that it does, and refering to #1 and #2 with resistances the way they are those 2 things combined make the skill no where near as useful or considered a threat in pve or pvp.

    Just a little example with the b'rel of why its not a threat anymore. Since the b'rel cannot fire beams when in EBC mode it can no longer bring the shields down quick enough as it were when tykens rift/energy siphoning could do that because it just brings them down and has a time out function to keep the shields from going completely offline. The tactic in the past was you could then hit the Target with a PSW3 and then fire a tricobalt(contrary to what some people believe in their fantasy world... Even minimal Shielding reduces the damage a tricobalt does).

    In essence there have been changes in other areas that have led this to just have no place on anyones ship. However it could be given a wider radius and a few more abilities so it cannot be countered fully but as far as ways I like to play currently I'd never use this ability again.
  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    dradym wrote: »
    i just think sensors, stealth, and threat should all be merged into a single, first tier, sci skill. that is all.

    I would rather give secondary benefits to them. Sensons (accuracy secondary), stealth (defence secondary), threath already has secondary (resistances).
    "Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
  • reconalpha1reconalpha1 Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Clarification, please...

    I'm listening to your feedback (yes, even the rude and insulting stuff, amazingly enough), but I'd like to know for certain: Which of the following do you feel is -more- accurate?

    1) You feel that these powers are flat-out ineffective. (PvE and PvP)
    -or-
    2) You feel that these powers are ineffective against players that have high resists to them. (PvP)

    Question 1) ?yes?

    For instance like Charged Particle Burst III or Tachyon Beam III both are used to damage or weaken shields, both abilities on a Fed Science ship are very weak to be of any use on a NPC or PvP player because the damage output on fed science ships (with a Science Captain) is low due to its limited tac consoles and limited weapons slots it is more likely the enemy will recover from the drain and damage before the science ships beams can go in for the kill.

    If you were to buff the two abilities to make it more effective it would give Science ships a better chance to take down a Fed cruiser or Fed escort in FvF but then you would end up with a different problem in FvK.

    The Bird of Prey

    Even though my Science Captain would be jumping up with joy, my Tactical KDF Captain would be drooling with excitement.

    CPB III + Tachyon beam III + Canon Rapid fire would give me yet another 5 sec or less Alpha kill, run and cloak, and we all know what will come next after that.

    The screams of Fed players yelling, ?OVER POWERD!!? ?NERF, NERF,NERF? and we would end up back to square one.

    :(

    Because in their point of view it?s not fun going in to a PvP match and dying every 5 sec or less (he, he, he another one bites the dust):D

    I think that?s why the majority of the player base stays away from PvP.

    What to do, what to do, that is the question.
    :confused:

    your D if you do and D if you dont
  • francescos77francescos77 Member Posts: 122 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Question 1) ?yes?
    If you were to buff the two abilities to make it more effective it would give Science ships a better chance to take down a Fed cruiser or Fed escort in FvF but then you would end up with a different problem in FvK.

    The Bird of Prey

    And that's another reason why PSW3 (and before the new skill tree, also CPB3) benefitted more from skill tree and science consoles than from innate ability base damage.
    It was NOT a math error Borticus.
  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Meh, without some abilities buffed by tacs skills, there is kinda no point in flying a tac in sci ship. It's a very lovely combo. Would not like to see it gone.

    Improve sci captains if you must, but do not touch tacs. Not everyone is interested in playing dull all cannon escort or all beam cruiser.
    "Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Works in recon as well, especially fleet recon with its 4 tac consoles. yum yum. The only thing I'm missing is regular dual cannons :P
    "Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    There is only handful players that I'm afraid of when I see their BoPs...the rest is very low in the foodchain.

    BoP is probably the only ship that is very vulnerable to cloak detection techniques as they die very often to simple beam overload.
    "Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
  • dradymdradym Member Posts: 38 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    dalnar83 wrote: »
    I would rather give secondary benefits to them. Sensons (accuracy secondary), stealth (defence secondary), threath already has secondary (resistances).

    well, thats why it should be a first tier skill...the skills are supposed to be general to begin with, then at higher tiers become more specialized...so then add sensor accuracy, sensor countermeasures(defense and stealth)....i dont know why threat should get resistance, threat should be more about manipulating sensors not manipulating game mechanics. basically, make your sensor echo larger and make your allies hide in your shadow. so a secondary should be...team countermeasures. but they do need some durability if theyre going to tank, just from somewhere else not the same skill.

    but i digress...
  • dassemstodassemsto Member Posts: 792 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    How else do you think this OOPS was discovered?
    Do you really think that it was a KDF player that noticed this and reported it.

    I don?t think so.

    It was most likely Fed Players that noticed it when they were Alpha struck from a BoP and reported it.

    It is one of the BoP MO after all.

    Hah! My main PSW3 toon was flying a RSV... yes, a fed science ship. And it knocked harder than any BoP could, because it has more sci slots. Sure, no DHCs, but with a full tree of sci, it's usually possible to drop those shields for a second, and then boom!

    lol BoP!
  • clintsatclintsat Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    dalnar83 wrote: »
    Meh, without some abilities buffed by tacs skills, there is kinda no point in flying a tac in sci ship. It's a very lovely combo. Would not like to see it gone.

    Improve sci captains if you must, but do not touch tacs. Not everyone is interested in playing dull all cannon escort or all beam cruiser.

    The issue I see is that Tac captains benefit ANY ship they are in significantly in PVE and PVP while Sci only benefit in an escort in PVP, never really add anything to cruisers, and really do not add anything to science ships except for PVP. Sci should be more than subnuke.
  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    clintsat wrote: »
    The issue I see is that Tac captains benefit ANY ship they are in significantly in PVE and PVP while Sci only benefit in an escort in PVP, never really add anything to cruisers, and really do not add anything to science ships except for PVP. Sci should be more than subnuke.

    True, but the problem is deeper. It's the +dmg part on attack pattern alpha and go down fighting that basically buffs the skills. But same buff is from Attack Pattern Omega for example. So you cannot separate tac captain buff from other. Even your science captain can use APO on some sci ships/carriers.

    I agree that science captain should not be all about subnuke tho.
    "Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
  • nicha0nicha0 Member Posts: 1,456 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I think the flexibility of science is what got itself nerfed to hell. The problem becomes the what ifs and I think most devs fear the permutations and combinations possible, the real problem with science is the available of both skill points and ship power. If you want to do a lot of damage then you have to have weapons power and aux for sci abilities, which leaves your shields like paper, cruisers can compensate for this, escorts specialize, sciences need the most power and have the least. Science powers can't stand on their own, weapon power is a must, unless you can make a special science weapon efficient at low power levels, but I don't see that happening. There is also no way for a science builds to skill weapons and science skills at the same time and be effective, its just a total disaster, but I'm sure someone at cryptic decided that WHAT IF science ships had 400 power points and were skilled in everything, we need to nerf that possibility...

    When I was playing science I liked my power draining build, but it took forever to kill anything, and every enemy even in PvE escapes from Tyken's rift. During timed matches it isn't an option.

    The shield draining builds are complete failures in PvE and PvP, the resists kill PvP but the shear volume of mobs makes drains an ineffective path for PvE.

    The kinetic skills of GW and PSW just don't do enough damage, they are probably going to be hitting shields most of the time, 20% of not enough is useless.

    I think the tractors are still useful, along with TBR.

    VM is garbage in PvE.
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