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Tactical Consoles are BORING

stargate525stargate525 Member Posts: 36 Arc User
I think this is the best place for it... If not, please move.

Anyway. Tactical consoles are BOOOORING. All of them are damage bonuses. There's no choice there, no decisions to make. Just slot in the appropriate damage, and go. What's the point?

Why not put in some interesting effects as consoles? What if, for instance, we had a console that boosted the Proc chance of your weapons' special by 5 or 10%? Or one that boosted just your crit chance? Or just your crit severity? Heck, I guarantee almost everyone in a cruiser would shell out for a console that mitigated power drain on multiple weapon firings.

It gives us a lot more options, and many, many more viable builds, like an energy-killer that doesn't do much damage with their polarons, but has a 30-40% chance to drain your power.

Thoughts?
Post edited by stargate525 on

Comments

  • flekhflekh Member Posts: 233 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Let me start off with saying: I agree, tactical consoles are boring. One good choice, and lots of crappy ones.

    But let me ask you this question: do you want more power, or more noobtraps?

    'Cause that's the only options while tac consoles are your dps option. There'll always be one best option. One you'll be able to calculate and parse. And a lot of worse options, which you can also calculate and parse. And some really bad ones, which can only be explained as noobtraps.

    If you wanted to break out of this, you'd have to offer options that are superior to "more dps" in some way. And/Or offer other ways to compensate for dps losses, as dps is currently too important to not priorize.

    So, while I agree, I also don't see much of an improvement without a major overhaul of the console system in general. Just more P2W options and noobtraps.
  • stargate525stargate525 Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    How is a 'P2W' console and a DPS is king argument coexisting? And, like I said, there are specialized builds I can think of for each of the consoles I proposed. DPS is already a losing proposition with cruisers and science builds, so why not build a shield-stripping behemoth who doesn't do much structural, but evicerates shields with a tetryon build and proc-boosters?

    Or on anti-proton, the argument and finesse between proc boosters, crit boosters, and damage boosters. That argument could go for years.

    Your argument is predicated on 'DPS is King' and, you're right, it is very important. However, if we were given the options to make control, disable, etc builds more viable, that might change.
  • jkstocbrjkstocbr Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Proc and Modifier consoles would definitely mix it up a bit. There isn't much variety in builds these days. I for one am on favour to make all consoles universal :p
  • shimmerlessshimmerless Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I actually completely agree with the OP. The only problem is that I do not for even the slightest fraction of a second trust Cryptic to handle something like this properly :(
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  • carmenaracarmenara Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Quite right that there's a total lack of options regarding the Tactical Console.

    Question is, if there were more targeting stat modifying Tac Consoles would it be unbalancing if you stacked 5 +targeting or +crit chance modifier consoles into a JHAS?

    I was wondering the other day "what if" we were allowed to install more than one Assimilated Console-like affair, or portions thereof.

    For discussion purposes, would a + to critical rate be suitably balanced by the reduced base DPS?
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  • stargate525stargate525 Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I think the majority of these would depend a LOT upon percentages. Would a -20% to damage from a lost console be worth an additional 1% crit chance? Probably not. For an extra 10%, I think it would be. Might even be OP.
  • reginamala78reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Admittedly, tac in general is pretty boring. The consoles are 'more damage,' the most significant powers are 'more damage,' the captain abilities are mostly 'more damage.' Its the most effective power set, there's no real debate there, but generally speaking it doesn't have much flair to begin with.
  • mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I wouldn't mind more consoles, not just tac ones, but all over.

    I think acc, or Crtd, or CrtH consoles would still be very potent, but there would also have to be a defense/maneuvers console to balance it out.


    Like, let's say an accuracy console added...2.5% accuracy to all weapons, so if you stacked 4 of them, that's 10% total, essentially acting as a free Acc modifier, which means you might not do any extra damage, but you'd have an even better chance to hit, and possibly do criticals.

    I also think that more 'ship system' consoles for engineering would be nice. I know we have things like Plasma Distribution Manifold, but still, I feel like there could be more.
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  • szimszim Member Posts: 2,444 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I think this is the best place for it... If not, please move.

    Anyway. Tactical consoles are BOOOORING. All of them are damage bonuses. There's no choice there, no decisions to make. Just slot in the appropriate damage, and go. What's the point?


    Thoughts?

    Not true. You can always put in an universal console :P ;)
  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I personally would change tactical consoles altogether.

    I would change their values and make them unique (you can only have one). That would in end mean that ship with 2 tactical consoles is not that gimped compared to ship with 5 consoles.

    Energy type console +100% dmg
    Beam/cannon console +50% dmg / reduce drain by beam/console weapons by -2

    So in the end, even ships with two consoles could specialize in single weapon type, like Phaser Beams. While ships with more consoles would have the options to get more. Liek Phaser Beams + Cannons, Or Beams + Torpes.

    Projectile Type consoles +100%
    Torpedo console +50 dmg -2s reload.
    Mine Console +50 dmg +2 mines spawned

    I would also add more consoles, like accuracy console (targetting systems).
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  • eradicator84eradicator84 Member Posts: 1,115 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    A console that manipulates threat control would be great for cruisers.

    What about a torp console that doesn't boost torp damage but makes it reload faster?


    There are engy and sci consoles that boost other discipline abilities (like particle generators boost a few engy skills, or engineering consoles that boost power levels which aids weapons damage or heal abilities (eg sif gen)).
    I don't believe there's any tac consoles that affect other discipline abilities.

    What about consoles that boost just attack patterns?

    So many possibilities...
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  • beezle23beezle23 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    A console that manipulates threat control would be great for cruisers.

    Having threat be a console (or even a weapon modifier [Aggro]) instead of a skill would be a boon to people that like to switch ships.

    And I'll agree with the sentiment in the thread of having consoles mod more things than damage. [Acc] or even [CritH] consoles might be something I'd spend money on.

    More console types, then rather than make them "one only," how about making them diminishing returns like resist consoles?
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  • baudlbaudl Member Posts: 4,025 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    i think it's high time for a deminishing return on tac consoles. And in a ddition to that consoles that raise your base crit chance, or crit severety, or ACC also with diminishing return.

    Also the raise of proc chance on a console is sweet. just take the existing ones and redesing them...nobody needs + cannon damage or beam damage.
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  • thibashthibash Member Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Any stat boosting console is boring. They don't do anything other than change a few numbers. Now, supposedly, you could make some form of tactical console that did something like boosting attack patterns or critical hits...but seriously, who'd run that?
  • majesticmsfcmajesticmsfc Member Posts: 1,401 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    A console that manipulates threat control would be great for cruisers.

    That would be one way to get Cruisers/Engineers to be able to generate enough aggro to tank like they should without having to run in escorts etc.

    I really like this idea, one I hope the Dev's take to heart and implement. ;)
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,230 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    A console that manipulates threat control would be great for cruisers.

    What about a torp console that doesn't boost torp damage but makes it reload faster?


    There are engy and sci consoles that boost other discipline abilities (like particle generators boost a few engy skills, or engineering consoles that boost power levels which aids weapons damage or heal abilities (eg sif gen)).
    I don't believe there's any tac consoles that affect other discipline abilities.

    What about consoles that boost just attack patterns?

    So many possibilities...
    That sounds awesome actually. More options is always good. :D
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  • stargate525stargate525 Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    thibash wrote: »
    Any stat boosting console is boring. They don't do anything other than change a few numbers. Now, supposedly, you could make some form of tactical console that did something like boosting attack patterns or critical hits...but seriously, who'd run that?
    Wait wait, so you run a ship stuffed with nothing but universal ability consoles? EVERY console boosts a stat. Whether it's your character's stat or not, that differs.


    I also agree that Science and Engineering could also perhaps get a look at, though there's quite a lot of variation there already. Sixteen different types of armors, four power level boosters (which I'd LOVE to see combos of, BTW), transfer rate boost, turn rate boost, for engineering...

    Science though, does tend to get shafted. It's almost all skill boosts. What about a console that gives a small payback damage? And, I think that the aggro-manipulator should be slotted into science, as mucking about with sensors seems more sciency then engineering. What about a console that lets you 'steal' your team's aggro, or distribute yours to them? This could get evil in pugs, but would basically guarantee an escort never getting aggro again (letting them bring them back down to sanity, durability-wise).
  • thibashthibash Member Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I didn't mean to say that I find them boring...I meant to say that if the original poster thinks tactical consoles are boring, then they might as well call all 'standard' consoles boring, because they all do the same...boost stats.

    As for a threat console, I would like that too. However, if it's a tactical console then it would cause tanks to deal even less dps. And I don't think that is neccesarily a good thing. So a deflector would be preferable. Maybe a complete set. Or a weapon modifier.
  • stargate525stargate525 Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    It's not so much the individual consoles, it's the choice in the category.

    For engineering, I can boost my power, or make myself more maneuverable, or armor myself, boost my hull strength, etc.

    In science, I can boost effects of several categories of Boff skills, boost my shields, boost my crew regen rate, etc.

    In Tactical, it's DPS, DPS, or DPS. I can have any color I want, so long as it's black.


    And the argument on DPS is circular; non-escorts need DPS to keep up with escorts, but any boosts to non-escort DPS will be taken advantage of by escorts, keeping the gap the same. There are situations where DPS is not a be-all-end-all for mission completion, and procs would be much more useful. The long and the short of it is that escorts and cruisers will NEVER match escorts in DPS, and so clawing and scratching to try and do it is a futile, silly effort, that for most builds could be more varied and interestingly built if they could concentrate those tactical consoles elsewhere.
  • kimmerakimmera Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    How exciting are consoles supposed to be? Which Science or Engineering consoles are particularly exciting?

    I don't know of anyone who watches star trek to see what a console will do next. Its all about the captain and bridge officers. Why should it be different in game?
  • futurepastnowfuturepastnow Member Posts: 3,659 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I agree, but I think Cryptic has decided to let doffs do (most of) what you're wanting.
  • dwhornetdwhornet Member Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    We'll the subject of the thread is that Tactical consoles are boring.

    Let's reason why I agree with that title.

    1)There is no reward for mixing Disruptor and Plasma or any other weapon damage type together. In-fact if you do you get a DPS decrease and the chance of proc is so small now that it hurts everything entirely.

    2)There is usually no reason to mix beams and cannons (turrets are here also). Why you ask? Well all abilities are Beam: fire at will, or Cannon:Rapid fire doesn't buff none beams or cannons respectively. To explain that better, with Fire at will you will have more beams firing doing more damage then if you had some turrets.

    3) Generic Tactical Consoles (Variable Geometry Detonators, Warhead Yield Chamber, Directed Energy Distribution Manifold, Prefire Chamber) are all useless because you usually DON'T want to mix multiple types of ; mines, torpedoes, damage of beam arrays, and damage of cannons.

    The torpedo bomber isn't really viable as a build, mines aren't spammy enough to be worth really taking up a weapon slot. Virtually no reason to mix plasma and disrupter as your DPS will probably decease like 20%? (number out of thin air, can't verify now) . Prefire chamber is the same as result as beam DPS decreases because you used this type of console.


    I would propose revamping Prefire chambers and Directed energy manifolds this way.

    +10% damage MKXI blue, +1.5% chance proc rate.

    Mines needs to be revamped entirely and so do Torpedoes. Tactical consoles isn't the key here, unless it's 200% more damage or something ridiculous like that.
  • dradymdradym Member Posts: 38 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    the "reward" to using different weapons is so you can use, say: target subsystems, rapid fire, and high yield torps at the same time...thats about it. other than "being flexible".

    as for making new consoles with [Acc][Proc][Threat]...and other tags...[Arc]...would be awesome, and i fully support console support for every skill in the tree and other, more practical usage. they should all be unique or diminishing returns...since i was under the impression they were already like that. also, on the topic of mines...just somehow make a torp that shoots each kind...people will run mines then, maybe a new boff skill?

    also, have moving give more defense...ESPECIALLY for escorts
  • centersolacecentersolace Member Posts: 11,178 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Really now? Tacticals? Boring? Tell me, when was the last time you used a Sci-Console with out using a chart to see what it does? Even then, did it have a big impact on your game? Hmmm? :rolleyes:
  • quiscustodietquiscustodiet Member Posts: 350
    edited August 2012
    I also agree that Science and Engineering could also perhaps get a look at, though there's quite a lot of variation there already. Sixteen different types of armors, four power level boosters (which I'd LOVE to see combos of, BTW), transfer rate boost, turn rate boost, for engineering...

    Nitpick: the armors are no more different from each other than a Mag Regulator from a Phaser Relay.
    But that's a nitpick, overall, yes, there is less diversity in Tac consoles than Eng or Sci (then again, Sci for non-SVs is Field Generators or Field Generators. Maybe some Field Generators, too).


    You know, existing Consoles all* (directly or indirectly) correlate with a Skill from the tree; so why know fill the gaps?
    New Tac Consoles:
    1. Trajectory Processor: Starship Attack Patterns+X.
    The value of X has to be calibrated to be sufficient to mitigate the opportunity cost of removing a damage Console on a Pattern-heavy setup but not on a Pattern-light setup: if it's inferior in all situations it won't be used, if it's superior in all situations, it'll displace damage consoles.

    2. Pattern Analyser: Defense+X% or Starship Maneuvers+Y.
    An absolute Defense cap might need to be introduced, if one doesn't exist already.

    3. Targetting Sensors: Accuracy+X% or Starship Targetting System+Y.
    Values mirroring the above or slightly exceeding it (to avoid stalemates).


    4. Hull Analyser: Critical Hit Rate+X% Critical Severity+10X%.
    X would probably be very low, 1.5% max.

    Non-Skill related:

    5. Shield Dissipator: Tetryon procrate+X%.
    6. SIF Dissipator: Disruptor procrate+X%.
    7. Power Disruptor: Polaron procrate+X%. (if the name confuses you, you have poor semantics skills)
    8. Plasma Coil: Plasma procrate+X%.
    9. Phase Enhancer: Phaser procrate+X.


    New Eng Consoles:
    1. Threat Assessement Module: Threat Control+X.
    It's a Tac Skill, but as a Console it makes more sense in Eng for 3 reasons:
    - It reduces damage.
    - If it was a Tac Console, it wouldn't be guaranteed to actually generate more Threat due to the opportunity cost of removing a damage Console.
    - Tanks have more Eng slots.
    Besides, there's a precedent: Stealth Module is a Sci Console for a Tac Skill.

    2. Hull Reinforcement Module: Structural Integrity+X.
    Balanced to outperform armors&SIF generators over a short encounter, since longer encouters will favour those.

    3. Backup Systems: Subsystem Repair+X.
    X needs to be very large for these to be worth equipping.

    4. Power Recyclers: Warp Core Efficiency+X.

    5. Power Buffers: All Power Levels+X.
    X is half the system-specific bonus, so it maxes at 2 when purple Mk XII (unless/until the system-specific bonus Consoles are finally buffed).


    New Sci Console:

    1. Scramblers: Subspace Decompilers+X.
    Strange. All other Sci Skills are included, Decompilers seem to have been forgotten.
    X obviously has the same value as the other Sci Consoles (maxes at +30 at Mk XII purple).


    Bam, 15 new Consoles. A nightmare to balance, but would be quite interesting and introduce more diversity in builds.



    *ok, not all. The Emergency Force Fields and Biofunction Monitor can't really be linked to a Skill.

    PS: I didn't see much value in including Driver Coils and Batteries.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,230 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Really now? Tacticals? Boring? Tell me, when was the last time you used a Sci-Console with out using a chart to see what it does? Even then, did it have a big impact on your game? Hmmm? :rolleyes:
    I use shield booster sci consoles, or use Sci slots for universal.
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  • stargate525stargate525 Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    edited August 2012

    Bam, 15 new Consoles. A nightmare to balance, but would be quite interesting and introduce more diversity in builds.

    This! A Thousand times THIS!
  • thibashthibash Member Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    The long and the short of it is that escorts and cruisers will NEVER match escorts in DPS, and so clawing and scratching to try and do it is a futile, silly effort, that for most builds could be more varied and interestingly built if they could concentrate those tactical consoles elsewhere.

    Ok, I'll have to step in here and state that you're seriously overestimating the power of tactical consoles here. For starters, they only affect the base dps at power level 50, so at max weapon power you'd be lucky to get half the boost the console mentions.

    Secondly, the main reason escorts deal so much damage is because they get to use those dual cannons...which is normally balanced by their firing arc. In PvE, getting something in your arc is trivial (to the point where you can just sit and shoot) so their dps will be relatively high. But that doesn't mean that cruisers and science ships can't and shouldn't deal any damage. And it's certainly not due to the 1 or 2 extra tactical consoles.

    Escorts are the most direct at dealing damage. That is true. They're also better at doing so. But not to the point that other ship types should simply forgo using +weapon damage tactical slots at all. That's just silly.

    And on a side note, the more dps oriented cruisers have only 1 less tactical slot than escorts do.
  • stargate525stargate525 Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Thibash, you're arguing both that tactical consoles don't do much additional damage, which I agree with, but then also that cruisers and science vessels desperately need that extra boost, which I don't. Yes, we don't have any other options right now, so simply not slotting tactical consoles is silly. But, if we had proc boosters or arc increasers or... ANYTHING else for those slots, we could be better served with those.

    DPS is not, nor has it ever been, the game of the cruiser or science vessel. Allowing us to slot tac consoles that do something besides that would be fantastic.
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