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Transitioning to an all-cannon Armitage, need help on Boff layout
unangbangkay
Member Posts: 10 Arc User
Hey forumites,
I normally run my Armitage with a photon torpedo up front because the description said it was a torpedo boat, but soon I intend to transition to elite STFs and figure I should spec for max damage, which is usually hampered by a torpedo (without the right projectile Doffs to make it fire faster, which I don't have). As such I'm switching to a 4-cannon 3-turret setup.
My issue is, however, my Boff layout, and I can't seem to find a way to optimize all the slots, particularly the ensign slots.
Here is my current setup (Engi Captain):
COM TAC: Torpedo Spread I, CRF I, CSV II, AP Omega III
LTCOM TAC: TT I, CRF I
EN TAC: TT I
LTCOM ENG: EPTS I, RSP I, EPTS II
LT SCI: TSS I, Hazard Emiters II
Equipment:
Fore: Quad cannons, 2x DHC, 1 photon (replace with DHC) (all phasers, can replace with polarons)
Aft: 3x turrets
Shields/Deflector/Engines: Full MACO set (can replace with Borg engines, Full aegis, or Jem'Hadar if switched to polarons)
En consoles: 2x Neutronium, Borg console
SCI: Field Generator, Photon PDS (can replace with Field Generator)
Tac: 3x Phaser Relay, Photon chamber (replace with phaser relay)
Hangar: Danube Runabouts (green, can replace with purple once I farm more dil)
What should I put in the torp spread slot? I tried putting TTI there, but then I couldn't figure out what to put in my 2nd or 3rd ensign slots.
Also, should I keep 2 copies of CRF, or replace an LT slot with Attack Pattern Beta?
Plus, I opted to keep APO III because of tractor beams, but I could use Polarize hull, but I've heard it's not ideal for elite STFs.
If possible, I'd also like a setup that will work on a Tac retrofit with minimal tweaking
Any advice or tips are welcome, and thank you very much in advance
I normally run my Armitage with a photon torpedo up front because the description said it was a torpedo boat, but soon I intend to transition to elite STFs and figure I should spec for max damage, which is usually hampered by a torpedo (without the right projectile Doffs to make it fire faster, which I don't have). As such I'm switching to a 4-cannon 3-turret setup.
My issue is, however, my Boff layout, and I can't seem to find a way to optimize all the slots, particularly the ensign slots.
Here is my current setup (Engi Captain):
COM TAC: Torpedo Spread I, CRF I, CSV II, AP Omega III
LTCOM TAC: TT I, CRF I
EN TAC: TT I
LTCOM ENG: EPTS I, RSP I, EPTS II
LT SCI: TSS I, Hazard Emiters II
Equipment:
Fore: Quad cannons, 2x DHC, 1 photon (replace with DHC) (all phasers, can replace with polarons)
Aft: 3x turrets
Shields/Deflector/Engines: Full MACO set (can replace with Borg engines, Full aegis, or Jem'Hadar if switched to polarons)
En consoles: 2x Neutronium, Borg console
SCI: Field Generator, Photon PDS (can replace with Field Generator)
Tac: 3x Phaser Relay, Photon chamber (replace with phaser relay)
Hangar: Danube Runabouts (green, can replace with purple once I farm more dil)
What should I put in the torp spread slot? I tried putting TTI there, but then I couldn't figure out what to put in my 2nd or 3rd ensign slots.
Also, should I keep 2 copies of CRF, or replace an LT slot with Attack Pattern Beta?
Plus, I opted to keep APO III because of tractor beams, but I could use Polarize hull, but I've heard it's not ideal for elite STFs.
If possible, I'd also like a setup that will work on a Tac retrofit with minimal tweaking
Any advice or tips are welcome, and thank you very much in advance
Post edited by unangbangkay on
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Commander Tac: TS1, CSV1, AP:O, CRF3
Lt. Tac: TT1, AP:B1
Ens. Tac: TT1
Lt. Comm Eng: EP2S1, EP2S2, A2SIF2
Lt. Sci: HE1, TSS2
I'm not going to touch your gear, since I'm sure others can do that better than I. Either way, lemme explain my changes:
If you're using Omega to avoid tractors, then it is eating up valuable space in your Commander Tac station. CRF3 absolutely MELTS targets, so it's a must if you want to run a cannon boat imho. Scatter, from the math that others have done, doesn't get much of a boost for damage at higher levels. You're much better off running the lowest one possible in tandem with a Beta to boost damage to their hull. using Aux2Structural means you don't need a high hazard, allowing you to pop HE1 only when you have a debuff that's affecting your boat. Plus, at least this way you have three powers you can use on fellow captains, which is always a nice gesture in a fight.
Tbh, ships that have three Ensign Tac slots are rather poor at running cannon boats, as opposed to a torpedo build. This is due to all cannon-related abilities being set at Lt-level and higher, so either you slap on a beam or a torpedo with a proper ability. If you build your boat around beams (not really encouraged, lol) or torpedoes, on the other hand, you can easily fit a perfect build. I think the Blockade/Fleet Patrol is actually the best at running an all-cannon build, but that's just me. You can still make an effective cannon build, it just won't be an "all-cannon" boat due to you making a conscious effort to waste an ensign slot.
Hope this helps, and I'm sure others will be along to correct and/or scold me. :P
You've hit on something that has been a thorn in escort-cannon'eers for a long time now. The same question haunts the Defiant pilots & MVAM pilots... what to do with that Ensign slot?
And since, the BOFF "trend" has continued in the Fleet ships, that tells me that the Devs don't want you to run an all cannon build. Or, they think 3 copies of TacTeam1 is a good thing?
No one knows really, and it's very frustrating for lovers of the Armi, Defiant, and MVAM to really do what they want... tactically speaking.
I can't give you any advice in the issue because I hit the same wall a while back. I resigned myself to either using a Torp and a THY or TSV, or a DualBeam and using BO1. So, I guess my advice (that I said I couldn't give) would be to either 1) don't worry about 4 cannons and use something else in the 4th Forward Weapon slot, 2) use 3xTT1, knowing and accepting that 1 of them is really a waste of a BOFF power, or 3) change to a ship that is more conducive to an all-cannon build (Advanced, Patrol) if running all cannons is more important than ship choice.
And Btw, having 2 APBs and 2 CRFs or 2 CSV is not a bad thing.
For my Armi (on a Tactical Captain), I like:
COM TACT - TT1 / APB1 / CRF2orCSV2 / APB3 (this is tentative on my role and position and I DO swap it up so the APB3 and CRF3 swap)
Lt TACT - TT1 / CRF1 or CSV1
EnTACT - TSV1or THY1 or BO1 (depending on the gear and mission role)
APO3 is a great power... that said, I've been functioning fine without it for months, and I don't use a Polarize Hull when in an escort. Yeah, Borg tractors can stink but I have yet to fail any Elite STF because I was caught in a tractor. It's not "mission critical" to have an escape, in my opinion because if your Shield and Hull buffs are cycling well, you will survive the hold more often than not. It's additionally less useful to worry about since Evasive will give a chance of escape anyways.
PS - The Subspace Jump console ignores tractor beam holds, so used artfully you can "escape" through it.
As far as SCI- looks good! I typically will run HE1 and TSS2, but I can see it either way. I rely on HE1 to put out plasma and assimilation more than a hull heal over time.
The Eng looks fine, but I've never been a fan of RSP because of the cool down. I tend to stick in Aux to Sif1 right there. But with you being ENG career, maybe RSP is a better fit.
Technically speaking, you COULD get down to 1 Tact Team with the right DOFFs (certain purple Conn Officers that reduce Tactical Team recharge)... this mght allow you to have more options for the torp or beam you put up front.
Torpedoes in STFs work far better because of the amount of unshielded things. But I would change up to Quantums since your only using phaser consoles anyway you don't need to stick to Photons.
Keep the Torp PDS, it's a useful damage boost. Or replace it with Vent Theta or Subspace Jump. Personally I find I don't need the two Field Generators and get more utility out of something else.
3P MACO isn't that great, especially for Escorts. Consider 3P Omega or 3P Borg and MACO Shields. The Borg Engines and Console with either 2P MACO or 2P Omega are both good too.
2P Omega: Tetryon Glider About 30 reduction in shields a shot with no Flow Capacitors.
3P Omega: Gravitic Anchor, Lowers defense, stops turning and boosts the whole teams damage.
2P MACO: Not sure what it's called but a 5% decrease to all BOFF and Captain Powers cooldowns.
3P MACO: Heavy Graviton Beam: Even at full Aux it did less damage than a single Unbuffed Quantum Torpedo, Totally now worth it. Although I have not check it recently
I like Mehens choices but I'd tweak the layout, I'd bump HE1 up to HE2 and take a Polarise Hull1. This frees up Omega as a DPS boost.
TT1 > AP:B1 > AP:O1 > CRF3
TT1 > CSV1
THY1 or TS1
EP2S1 > EP2S2 > A2SIF2
PH1 > HE2
With the above changes you can give your Ensign BOFF, CRF1 and swap him with the Lieutenant, for single player stuff where 2 CRF's would be better.
Other than my preference of PH over TSS (because you do have a lot of shield heals even though now you can't shield heal others) it's Mehen build.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Fore weapons: Quad Cannons, 2x Dual Cannons, Torpedo (Photon on the Armitage, Quantum on the others)
Aft: 3x Phaser turrets
All of my weapons except for 2 turrets and the torpedos are [Dmg]x3. Quads are obviously [Dmg]x4.
Deflector: MACO MkXII (was MkXI) (Can sub in Borg Deflector)
Engines: Borg
Shields: MACO MkXII (was MkXI)
Eng Consoles: Ablative MkXI Very Rare, 2x Monotanium MkXI Very Rare (on MVAE lose one Monotanium)
Sci: Borg console, Torpedo PDS (on Armitage), Cloak (on Tac Retro), MVAM (on MVAE)
Tac: 3x MkXI Rare Phaser Relays, MkXI Rare+ matching Torp console.
Boffs:
Commander Tac: THY1, CRF1, TS3 or THY3, CSV3 or CRF3 (I use Spread and Scatter Volley on the Armitage with the Torpedo PDS)
LtCmdr Tac: TT1, APB1, APO1 (Tac Retro)
LtCmdr Eng : EPtS1, Aux2SIF1, RSP2 (Armitage)
LtCmdr Sci: PH1, HE2, GW1 (MVAE)
Lt Tac: TT1, APB1 (MVAE, Armitage)
Lt Eng: EPtS1, Aux2SIF1 (Tac Retro, MVAE)
Lt Sci: PH1, HE2 (Armitage, Tac Retro)
Ens Tac: TT1
A bit of a shame that the ensign tac slots haven't quite been fixed for cannon-fetishists, but in a way it's OK news for me, since I won't feel my fancy [Borg] torpedo will go to waste
I'd bring a Quantum with you even if you don't have the DOFFs yet.
(You'll eventually earn ridiculous amounts of EDCs whilst waiting for your prototype techs to drop, and be able to buy Purple Projectile DOFFs at DS9 for 40 EDC each)
You don't have to actually slot the torp all the time of course... but in my experience, in STFs there're times when you really want a Torp Spread 2 or 3 in order to maximise your spike AoE potential. Killing a gateway in KASE would be a good example (pop your AoEs when the probes spawn, keep firing on the gate). Killing Raptor or BoP waves in The Cure would be another.
CSV1 + TS2 + APB3 is probably the most efficient setup you can manage here, it'd leave your LTCom slots free for APO1 and/or CRF2 and mean you could lump a HYT into any spare Ensign slots.
APO's damage buff doesn't stack up particularly well, but it's handy as a tractor beam shed. PH1 is probably slightly better vs tractors, but it shares a system cooldown with Hazard Emitters. Most builds seem to favour a Sci BOFF setup of: PH1/HE2 (no APO) or HE1/TSS2 (with APO)
Another option would be to run DHCx3 and a DBB, and take Beam Overload. Though beware of low weapons power unless you're using Batteries or EPTW (or you're an Engineer).
I thought the Armitage doesn't have an LTC tac officer (1 cdr, 1 lt, and 1 en), so I've only got one LtC and one Cdr tac ability. I can't have both APO1 and CRF2 on the ship. And aren't CSV 1 and TS2 both Lieutenant abilities?
That's why I put "and/or"
The Armitage doesn't have a LtCom Tac BOFF slot, but some other Escorts have one instead of the extra Tac Ensign - the Patrol/Fleet patrol Escorts spring to mind.
With an Armitage you could opt for CRF2, dropping APO1 in favour of PH1.
(My own Armitage is a slightly odd Aux2Bat setup, and currently has 2x Tac Teams plus APB3/APO1/CSV1/CRF1 and TS1. I'd drop APO1 for TS3, but I can't take PH1 because I like having both TSS2 and HE1 available for Fleet Actions)
Whats the point of 2xTT with aux2bat build ?
The cooldown reduction Aux2Bat grants via DOFFs instantly strips a certain amount of time off any cooldowns currently in progress. It's a nice buff, but it's only available every 30-40 seconds.
If I'm tanking something long-term (and on ESTF PUGs, when I'm firing at something I generally end up tanking it) I don't want to have to wait for more than a few seconds in between Tac Teams.
Ah yes, I forgot I asked for advice pertaining to non-Armitage escorts too
As an aside, I'm mildly disappointed with my Quad Cannons on the Armitage, if only because it seems all the cannon mounts are in the ship's nose, unlike on the Defiant, where the cannon mounts are on the nacelles. As a result I don't see the awesome simultaneous bursts when I hit the alpha strike. Instead I just see a stream of bolts coming out of the ship's nose. Not as cool
TT1 - CRF1
BO1
Just stick a beam on the backside of your Armitage for the BO1 so it won't TRIBBLE with an attack run, but still be a big hit when something is behind you.
Except Dual Beams can't be mounted in rear weapon arcs.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
I really wish the subsystem targetting abilities would work with Cannons.
Until then, you have 2 choices:
- Let the slot go to waste. Just make sure the BOFF is efficient, that'll be something at least.
- Compromise. You lose a lot less frontal damage by removing a Turret than a DC, so you could fit a Mine, Rear Torp or Rear Array and use a Dispersal Pattern, THY/TS or BO.
Personally, I'd go with a Mine.
Ooh, putting some mine goodness back in my setup would be cool. Quantum Mines were a staple of my single-player career (Dispersal Pattern Beta for the win!), and bringing it back to STFs might be fun.
Nothing to see here...
Cmdr: BO 1, Crf 1, Crf 2, Crf 3 (I switch between Excel and Armitage, that's why I have so many copies of CRF)
LT: (Ensign escapes me) CSV 1
for the Commander rank enginer boff ability, I use DEM 3
I edited that like 30 secs after posting. slow your roll :P
Your edit was the same time I posted, and I open lots of windows and move through them so I obviously had no idea you where going to fix it.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
My advice: transition back the other way. All cannon armitage isn't gonna happen in any good way. You WILL waste a boff slot, because the only non beam oriented ensign boff is tac team, and 2x covers you 24/7. A third has literally no purpose. Just slot one torp, and slot TS I, and call yourself a winner.
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I wouldn't go that far. So theres a wasted ensign slot, theres so many tactical boff slots on these escorts anyways that I tend to not use them all. I run a dhc front, turret rear Armitage, and I love it. I let the fighters and the consoles do my torpwork
Torps are nice. People like to throw around math that shows they are ineffective, but frankly, they are wrong. Torps are for burst. There is a definitive difference between burst damage and DPS, and you aren't likely to beat the burst torps can give.
DPS is your constant pressure. It's dependable and steady, but lowish. Even if your DPS is high, it will be low compared to how much burst can be achived.
Burst is for when a shield drops, or when a timer is running, or you just want it dead *NOW!* It will always be higher then DPS, but it will never last as long.
Your going for max DPS. That is a noble goal. You are missing the fact that "somewhat less then full DPS, but adding to my burst capabilities will be more effective over all" is true.
Your also facing the fact that your ship simply doesn't allow for the build you want. Welcome to the club, meetings are on Thursdays during maintenance =P.
Advice: Your ship is great, your plan is not. Add a torp back in for the burst, and don't worry about the minor loss in overall DPS and enjoy the fact that you learned more about speccing your ship. No build lasts forever, and you will experiment with new builds during your entire career.
Personally, I'm a sci, but I've recently gotten into the torp doff + torp build way of thinking. My DPS is roughly the same, but I have more aux power available. The best part of STO is that there is no one single way of doing things. Don't listen to the people who say that this ability is junk or this build is the one true way. Experimentation is the only way you will find what works for you.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
As for full cannons, that's... kind of a waste as you probably figured out. So as was stated before, add a torpedo. It works well on my raptor. I run a qin heavy raptor, 3 DCs and a photon in the front, and 2 turrets and a photon in the rear. Btw, before you bash my torpedo TRIBBLE, just remember, a target with no shields is askin for a torpedo, and if you wipe their shields and they get behind you, if there was one thing I have learned from flying a cruiser on my fed acc, it's this: nothing beats farting a torpedo spread from your rear when they think they've gotten away with no shields.
Torpedoes in my mind are a must have, regardless of what ship you're flying. Nothing beats them when it comes to hitting unshielded or shielded down targets. Like kimmy said, you can burst like a TRIBBLE with torps, whereas with cannons, you can burst... sort of... It's more like you poke them to death with a zillion paper cuts (tt1, eptw1, apb1, crf1). But after you fire off that burst, and their shields drop, where's the coup de grace? And that's where your torpedoes come in. Shields down, reeling from the cannon barrage, BOOM torp to the face/side/rear and that's all she wrote.
It all depends on your tactical console load out. If you plan to have a torp console, your better off using a photon torp (because of the torpedo point defense console), otherwise, it should be fine. If you have the patience and discipline, you could always use a mine spread to drop right after your strafing run too.
Myself, I tend to stick with all energy weapons, and let the cruisers back me up with torpedo volleys.
If you're just doing STFs/Fleet Events you can run 3 DHCs + 1 DBB.
DBBs are not as strong as DHCs but they are not massively behind either.
You still get all of your tac consoles focused onto all of your weapons, and you can simultaneously use powers like BFAW or BO at the same time as CRF/CSV.
Wasting a BOFF slot (especially Ensign) is better than wasting a frontal Weapon slot.
Debatable about an Aft slot.
The whole "burst damage vs DPS" argument makes no sense in any game: DPS kills things deader, burst produces nice screenshots for the kind of people that like to puff their cheeks whenever they see a high number but is otherwise meaningless.
Burst Damage = better for targets that you want to kill quickly. Typically these are things which are offensively but not defensively powerful; or which have annoying abilities (allied heals? CC?) but they can also be part of a timed mission objective. Examples in STO of good "Burst damage" targets: Kang attack waves in CSE, Probe spawns in KSE, Nanite Spheres in ISE, most ship spawns in Fleet missions. Most ships in PVP. On the Ground, Tactical Drones, Worker Drones, etc.
Sustained Damage = better for big defensively-powerful targets (i.e. ones that take a long time to kill, and would survive long after your spike damage abilities/buffs expire). Examples in STO of good "Sustained Damage" targets: Elite Tactical Cubes, Gateways, Transformers. Bosses and some Structures on Ground missions.
Note that most common examples of Spike Damage targets in STO PVE are of things that spawn in multiples... therefore, it's often a good idea to bring some AoE Spike Damage rather than Single Target Spike Damage (the only real exception would be in PVP when a team wishes to focus-fire one target at a time). There's nothing I can think of in STO that currently benefits from having large amounts of AoE Sustained Damage. Even soloing a Gateway on KSE all you need is Sustained Single Target Damage for the Gateway and AoE Spike Damage to kill the probes.