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Why is the Jem'hadar ship so special?

buddha1369buddha1369 Member Posts: 386 Arc User
edited August 2012 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
They always pwn everyone in pvp so i looked up the stats on STO wiki. Sure it turns fast but has roughly the same hull, weapons, and shields(estimate, not listed) as a fleet patrol escort but with more tac over science consoles. So it should be almost exactly the same but more DPS, faster turning, and less shield support with only one science console. What makes them so good?
Post edited by buddha1369 on

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    corsair114corsair114 Member Posts: 276
    edited August 2012
    "pwns everyone" is a bit of an exaggeration.

    What it has is basically the perfect storm of great BOff arrangement, amazing turn rate, and awesome firepower from its 5 tactical consoles. It's definitely overpowered, but don't mistake that as making it some sort of uber-iWin button, 'cause its not. If you seen someone flying around utterly destroying everything with it, well, that person was certainly better than the players they were pew-pewing and that's the long and short of it.
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    buddha1369buddha1369 Member Posts: 386 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    well definitely a little exaggerated, i have met 2 that were roughly equal to me and one that was suprisingly ordinary. but these seem to be the exception not the rule, on the whole they seem to take much more to kill than any escort class i have faced, even one designed for tanking. they seem to do more damage and survive longer than nything else yet the stats dont show any specific reason for it.

    not complaining, just hoestly trying to find out why
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    areikou#8990 areikou
    areikou#8990
         Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I've fought a couple to a standstill using the Armitage, it's not an i win machine, it's got slightly more potential but it still comes down to the pilot.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    [Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
    is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent

    Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.
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    ussultimatumussultimatum Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    buddha1369 wrote: »
    They always pwn everyone in pvp so i looked up the stats on STO wiki. Sure it turns fast but has roughly the same hull, weapons, and shields(estimate, not listed) as a fleet patrol escort but with more tac over science consoles. So it should be almost exactly the same but more DPS,aster turning, and less shield support with only one science console. What makes them so good?

    You already answered you're own question.
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    shimmerlessshimmerless Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    It's mostly the sick turn rate (escort fights are decided almost entirely by turn past a certain point) as well as the ridiculous base hull and four Eng consoles innate tankiness. Phenomenal layout to boot.

    Because there are very few areas that the JHAS doesn't come out well on top of (by far highest base turn, highest hull, highest base DPS, highest base speed) it has a compounding effect, because it can afford to spec into other things at the same time.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    vids and guides and stuff

    [9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
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    travelingmastertravelingmaster Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    The big thing with the jem'hadar is that, ultimately, it has the same tanking abilities as most escorts (which, in the hands of a skilled pilot, is usually enough), but has more DPS, turning, and a good boff layout. You have to know what you're doing in order to make it into an uber-escort, though. I've beaten 1-2 jem'hadar bugs with my Hegh'ta with a combination of an ambush and 30-40 seconds of circling and firing.
    My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
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    starcommando101starcommando101 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    "Jem'Hadar fighters were relatively easy for a large starship to destroy. A few solid phaser or photon torpedo hits were enough to cripple or destroy one, therefore, they usually operated in groups of two or three during routine operations, and in much larger swarms in large battles so that the loss of one or two would not make much difference."

    Exact quote from Memory Alpha

    IMHO They shouldn't be that tankable. If anything, they should be more Science oriented but the devs think, "They are working as intended". So if they believe that then I support it.
    The Average PvP player
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    1) Teamwork and timing is #1
    2) You cannot "Kirk It" in every ship
    3) You are going to die, just get back up
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    buddha1369buddha1369 Member Posts: 386 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    so it is not that it is better in one key feature but that it is slightly better in all areas?

    as for the boff layout, i believe it has a lt commander and commander tac and two universals (and an ensign something). so the existing tacs can hold all the tac abilities you could ever need and the two universals give it the extra survival abilities?
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    shimmerlessshimmerless Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    The devs play up that the JHAS is "working as intended" (if they ever talk about it at all) because it makes them a billion dollars. Nothing is more coveted and no other ship or in-game goodie can quite turn the crowds in the same numbers.

    From a marketing perspective it's honestly a dash of genius. They release it as a horrendously strong vanity prize with a drop rate in the initial event that made them the STO equivalent of a snipe hunt, then pull it from the event and stoke up desire as people realize just what the JHAS is in game, and finally re-release it and watch as hundreds of thousands of DOff packs get ripped open like people looking for a magic ticket to the chocolate factory. After the last buff pushing it unequivocally above everything else in the game, the desire is so bad that I can sense Cryptic practically salivating all the way from the offices.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    vids and guides and stuff

    [9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
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    rodex47rodex47 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Let me clear all this up for you, the Jem'hadar ships (or my little jems as I like to call them) are so awesome and special because they're built from leftover parts of the judgement.
    End of Discussion
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    All my ships are run on bravado

    Vice Admiral Judan The Trillian ladies man
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    mewimewi Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Actually the Fleet Patrol has the exact same BOFF layout as the Attack Ship, any good tact escort player would use anyway...

    I can think you can pump another science BOFF but really the engineering one is sort of needed :p

    The Fleet Patrol from stats look better ( not in terms of turn ). What exactly is the shield modifier for Attack Ship? I usually rely on wiki for this information, but it is missing lol

    But theoretically a Fleet Patrol should be able to out tank an Attackship.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    | Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
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    jkstocbrjkstocbr Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    Turn rate, extra Tac Console Slot, universal Boff stations, Polaron weapon advantages.

    Even though I have one, I prefer the Tac Escort Retrofit because it looks way cooler (& with quad cannons)
    The Jem'hadar ship is too small and ugly, and so dark you can loose it in black space. Polarons don't sound as cool as a phaser cannon also :p
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    sean2448sean2448 Member Posts: 815 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    buddha1369 wrote: »
    well definitely a little exaggerated, i have met 2 that were roughly equal to me and one that was suprisingly ordinary. but these seem to be the exception not the rule, on the whole they seem to take much more to kill than any escort class i have faced, even one designed for tanking. they seem to do more damage and survive longer than nything else yet the stats dont show any specific reason for it.

    not complaining, just hoestly trying to find out why

    no it is an escort that is what they are supposed to be they are fleet ship testing
    why boff's are what they are
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    aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    starcommando101 wrote: »
    "Jem'Hadar fighters were relatively easy for a large starship to destroy. A few solid phaser or photon torpedo hits were enough to cripple or destroy one, therefore, they usually operated in groups of two or three during routine operations, and in much larger swarms in large battles so that the loss of one or two would not make much difference."

    Exact quote from Memory Alpha

    Plus it's build is supposed to be 40 years behind the current "times" .

    So ... yeah ... . :o
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    corsair114corsair114 Member Posts: 276
    edited August 2012
    buddha1369 wrote: »
    so it is not that it is better in one key feature but that it is slightly better in all areas?

    as for the boff layout, i believe it has a lt commander and commander tac and two universals (and an ensign something). so the existing tacs can hold all the tac abilities you could ever need and the two universals give it the extra survival abilities?

    It is, last I checked, CMDR and LTC Tac, 2 LT Uni, and 1 ENS Eng for BOff slots.
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    srspellssrspells Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    The legit reasons are this,

    5 tac consoles are a bit nasty.
    4 engi consoles give it a tanky feel

    rest is blah but I own alot of ships and I only like it cause it looks like a scarab.
    -Spells
    || Open Door Policy ||
    | Dues Ex Mechina |
    Fleet Leader
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    matteo716maikaimatteo716maikai Member Posts: 823
    edited August 2012
    4 engineering consoles for durability, 5 tactical consoles for offense.

    best combo for an escort.
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    darramouss1darramouss1 Member Posts: 1,811 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I love my Jemmie. Being able to rain death on a target after turning on the spot is marvellous. Not only that, but it looks soooooo very cool. (Personally I think that the looks of a ship matter. It's not the most important thing, but it matters to me.)

    I've only heard of a very few people not liking them. Whether it's because they don't have one, I don't know, but on the whole those that have it love it.

    Cryptic loves it as people are prepared to spend to get them.

    Win-win, it seems!!
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    kagurazaka77kagurazaka77 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    <troll>Because of PvPHax, obviously.</troll>

    Seriously though, I hate those things. Grav well, multiple tractor beams on it and within an instant it's zipping away, slamming into the invisible wall that is the edge of the map.

    And like the other guy said, they look awesome too.

    But I'll take my substandard Armitage. Because, as that same guy said, looks. I heart me some T5 Akira, even if it does get face (unsolicited loved).
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    500 years in the future and we still look like schmucks when getting our ID photos taken...
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    travelingmastertravelingmaster Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    kagurazaka77 wrote: »
    <troll>Because of PvPHax, obviously.</troll>

    Seriously though, I hate those things. Grav well, multiple tractor beams on it and within an instant it's zipping away, slamming into the invisible wall that is the edge of the map.

    And like the other guy said, they look awesome too.

    But I'll take my substandard Armitage. Because, as that same guy said, looks. I heart me some T5 Akira, even if it does get face (unsolicited loved).

    Well, I could do the same thing in my BoP, to be honest. Just gotta have 1-2 Pattern Omegas, evasive, EPtE, and maybe polarize hull. Much harder to tractors to hang onto you at that point, and the evasive + omega makes you go really fast.
    My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
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    majesticmsfcmajesticmsfc Member Posts: 1,401 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    I don't have one, would love one. Gone over the status and those two universal Boff slots are gold. I really think a capable player with the correct traited and skilled character could do wonders with it. If only they were 200 Million EC on the Exchange still. :D
    Support the Game by Supporting the KDF, equality and uniqueness for all factions!
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    darramouss1darramouss1 Member Posts: 1,811 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    The prices really have shot up, haven't they?
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    sardociansardocian Member Posts: 187 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    majesticmsfc wrote: »
    I don't have one, would love one. Gone over the status and those two universal Boff slots are gold. I really think a capable player with the correct traited and skilled character could do wonders with it. If only they were 200 Million EC on the Exchange still. :D

    I bought mine for 20mil within the first hour they came out :D

    Should have stalked the exchange for more, could have a fortune by now if I did...
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    majesticmsfcmajesticmsfc Member Posts: 1,401 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    sardocian wrote: »
    I bought mine for 20mil within the first hour they came out :D

    Should have stalked the exchange for more, could have a fortune by now if I did...

    I so wish I had the 20 million at the time the event was on. Oh well saving up but even though the Bug is the best escort in the game, 500 million is a bit pricey but considering how rare they are now I can understand if a person can get 500 million for a ship why not. It's all moot anyway as by the time I get the money required I doubt any will be left. Might have to wait till they run it again which I hope will be sometime next year. :D
    Support the Game by Supporting the KDF, equality and uniqueness for all factions!
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    paragon92518paragon92518 Member Posts: 268
    edited August 2012
    I can't imagine a 3rd release coming any time soon. I could see Galors, or something but wave 3 for a bug? Would imagine if it (ever) happens, it would be a couple of Seasons away.
    [SIGPIC]http://media.photobucket.com/image/dofftrader/yoreantiques/DOFFtrader.gif[/SIGPIC]
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    yousuckashellyousuckashell Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    buddha1369 wrote: »
    They always pwn everyone in pvp so i looked up the stats on STO wiki. Sure it turns fast but has roughly the same hull, weapons, and shields(estimate, not listed) as a fleet patrol escort but with more tac over science consoles. So it should be almost exactly the same but more DPS, faster turning, and less shield support with only one science console. What makes them so good?

    The first constructives comments Dealing with shared holder is such a pain in the TRIBBLE; these low life people from perfect world are promoting the Gold subscription for half the price just becaused the overall income of money is lowering each days; hahaha! what did i told Ya

    Same as politics; you mess with the Core of the game; Complaint from players are raising each days for this little Bugged ship; i just hope no one in this game will be stupid enough to invest 200-300$ to gain the bug ship; caused at a certain point; in a couple of month; there will only be bug ship; And Oh! just to insist on the gravity of the situation; STO passed from 26 thousand players daily for July; to 12 thousand since the month of august; read the post on "Perfect world;bad investment strategies" You'l see the real mess there into; TRIBBLE you Owner; your gonna loose all of us

    This is a good days to die for STO .....
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    ethoirethoir Member Posts: 122 Arc User
    edited August 2012
    mewi wrote: »
    What exactly is the shield modifier for Attack Ship?
    I assume it has the same shield mod as any other escort (0.9), maybe a bit less because of its higher hull HP over standard feddie escorts.
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