test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Player Progression Improvement
commadorebob
Member Posts: 1,223 Arc User
One of our devs said they were working on a new player progression system. So I had a thought of how it could look.
Make Progressions Stack
If level 1 gives you a +1 DPS bonus and level 2 gives you a +3 DPS bonus, I should have +4 DPS.
More Accolade Levels
Right now there are three levels of kill accolades. There should be more in this kill progression: 10, 25, 50, 100, 250, 500, 1000, 2500, 5000, 10000, 25000, 50000, etc. Each accolade provides a bonus that makes fighting the enemy easier. And to make naming easier, just call them Klingon Kill 1, Klingon Kill 2, etc. It'll help when ranking.
Stop Level Matching
There was a time when you could go back and kill Level 5 Gorn as a VA50. It was a nice diversion, sort of like killing wildlife in other MMOs. All enemies should have a set HP. I can't think of any other game where the enemies HP scale with the player. Rather than scale the Orions to my level, introduce harder enemies as we rank up. Sure we do this now, but again, it is negated by level matching.
All are Created Equal
Get rid of weapons marks, ship tiers and ranks altogether.
Make Crafting Important
Rather than making crafting upgrades permanent, make them expendable. So you craft a
[Borg] modifier onto a Torpedo and it is good for 100 launches. After that, you revert to a standard torpedo. This is part of the getting rid of weapons marks. A Torpedo should be deadly regardless of the Mark, but your "additions" via crafting modifies the end result.... for a time.
Experience Matters
In Skyrim, the more I use a lockpick, the more my lockpicking skills go up. I have the ability to hunt down people to train me to cause those skills to go up quicker and I have a chance to improve those skills via the skill tree.
The same should be true here. Every phaser fire should be tied to accuracy improvement (practice by doing). And the progression should be automatic like the accolades. So you could go from Accuracy 10 to Accuracy 11 simply by taking that next shot, whether it hits or not. This way, your accuracy improves regardless of the type of weapon you use. We can do this for all modifier types.
***********
These are just a few of my ideas. I could write a book on my complete idea, and that's the point. Let's make ranking matter more than just the next ship we get.
A lot of these ideas are used in the Fleet System, so it shouldn't be that hard to implement otherwise.
Make Progressions Stack
If level 1 gives you a +1 DPS bonus and level 2 gives you a +3 DPS bonus, I should have +4 DPS.
More Accolade Levels
Right now there are three levels of kill accolades. There should be more in this kill progression: 10, 25, 50, 100, 250, 500, 1000, 2500, 5000, 10000, 25000, 50000, etc. Each accolade provides a bonus that makes fighting the enemy easier. And to make naming easier, just call them Klingon Kill 1, Klingon Kill 2, etc. It'll help when ranking.
Stop Level Matching
There was a time when you could go back and kill Level 5 Gorn as a VA50. It was a nice diversion, sort of like killing wildlife in other MMOs. All enemies should have a set HP. I can't think of any other game where the enemies HP scale with the player. Rather than scale the Orions to my level, introduce harder enemies as we rank up. Sure we do this now, but again, it is negated by level matching.
All are Created Equal
Get rid of weapons marks, ship tiers and ranks altogether.
No Weapon Marks
A bow fires an arrow regardless of your rank. But a Dwarven Bow has a little more firepower. Rather than having Marks to rank up torpedos, have the torpedo firepower be related to crafting or unlocked skill modifiers. You can have different types like we do now (antiproton, quantum, etc) but those just change the base skills. Your progression and skills should improve the DPS of the torpedos themselves.
No Ship Tiers
Rather than saying a ship is Tier 1 or Tier 2, the progression should be gradual. Continue to tie their unlocking to player ranks. But don't make getting one a must-have. All ships should have a bonus other ships cannot have. So even if that Tier 3 Escort provides a DPS bonus, that Tier 2 Escort offers a speed bonus. That DPS bonus could be made up via crafting. Each ship type should have two base features that progress in opposite directions. So a low level Cruiser has lower hull and more firepower but a higher level Cruiser has more hull and less firepower. And so on...
No Player Ranks
Not as they are now. But make it so that your rank is more a factor of your achievements than just a standard rank progression. So rather than going from Commander to Captain being automatic at rank 30, make it one of the prerequisites. So, if you want to get promoted from Commander to Captain, you must do the following (example):
A bow fires an arrow regardless of your rank. But a Dwarven Bow has a little more firepower. Rather than having Marks to rank up torpedos, have the torpedo firepower be related to crafting or unlocked skill modifiers. You can have different types like we do now (antiproton, quantum, etc) but those just change the base skills. Your progression and skills should improve the DPS of the torpedos themselves.
No Ship Tiers
Rather than saying a ship is Tier 1 or Tier 2, the progression should be gradual. Continue to tie their unlocking to player ranks. But don't make getting one a must-have. All ships should have a bonus other ships cannot have. So even if that Tier 3 Escort provides a DPS bonus, that Tier 2 Escort offers a speed bonus. That DPS bonus could be made up via crafting. Each ship type should have two base features that progress in opposite directions. So a low level Cruiser has lower hull and more firepower but a higher level Cruiser has more hull and less firepower. And so on...
No Player Ranks
Not as they are now. But make it so that your rank is more a factor of your achievements than just a standard rank progression. So rather than going from Commander to Captain being automatic at rank 30, make it one of the prerequisites. So, if you want to get promoted from Commander to Captain, you must do the following (example):
- Reach XP Level 30
- Get at least three Level 5 kill accolades.
- Complete at least 25 Level 4 crafting projects.
- Complete the Romulan Front
Make Crafting Important
Rather than making crafting upgrades permanent, make them expendable. So you craft a
[Borg] modifier onto a Torpedo and it is good for 100 launches. After that, you revert to a standard torpedo. This is part of the getting rid of weapons marks. A Torpedo should be deadly regardless of the Mark, but your "additions" via crafting modifies the end result.... for a time.
Experience Matters
In Skyrim, the more I use a lockpick, the more my lockpicking skills go up. I have the ability to hunt down people to train me to cause those skills to go up quicker and I have a chance to improve those skills via the skill tree.
The same should be true here. Every phaser fire should be tied to accuracy improvement (practice by doing). And the progression should be automatic like the accolades. So you could go from Accuracy 10 to Accuracy 11 simply by taking that next shot, whether it hits or not. This way, your accuracy improves regardless of the type of weapon you use. We can do this for all modifier types.
***********
These are just a few of my ideas. I could write a book on my complete idea, and that's the point. Let's make ranking matter more than just the next ship we get.
A lot of these ideas are used in the Fleet System, so it shouldn't be that hard to implement otherwise.
"If you have never used Cello, I'm not interested in your browser opinion."
___________________________
In game: Commadore_Bob; Joined Jul 2009; That post count + 20,000
___________________________
In game: Commadore_Bob; Joined Jul 2009; That post count + 20,000
Post edited by commadorebob on
0
Comments
I would love to see the tier system go. Endgame is made of the same 3 ships. Odysseys, Defiants, and armitages. Without fail. That gets old real fast.
On the surface, nothing would change with the rank system. All of these would be backdated and only applied to those characters you haven't created or haven't been promoted. The idea is to make rank something you remember rather than just a number you hit.
And all legacy weapons should be redeemable for dilithium.
___________________________
In game: Commadore_Bob; Joined Jul 2009; That post count + 20,000
With regards to rank progression, do you mean that ranks are milestones that are earned and can be chosen (i.e. XP level 50 but still calling oneself Captain)? That would relieve the issue of having thousands of VA's running around.
Would love it if it were possible to change department of a character, WITHOUT losing access to certain department abilities that you used to have. Perhaps undergo certain missions to make the transfer, and obtain the other department abilities?
That is something more along the lines I'm thinking of. You are really department-less when you start. Your choice of skills determine which department you favor later on. If you choose to focus on medical skills, you will still have access to the tactical skills, but not to the extent as if you focused on tactical, etc.
I use Skyrim as an example because it is the other game I've played most recently, but it is similar to their mass skill tree. Each department is broken down into three or four individual skill trees. And each of those skill trees require advancement within those skills in order to progress. For example, you aren't going to be able to progress through the grenade skill tree if you don't ever use grenades. But if you use a sniper rifle all of the time, you will be able to advance in that skill tree.
Some example skill trees:
Science
Engineering
And then each of those are broken down into trees. Medical can include: Combat Lifesaver, Field Medic, Nurse, Doctor, Neurosurgeon, etc.
In this way we get rid of the XP ceiling because it becomes next to impossible to max them all. Plus, you are given credit for what you do as much as what you kill. You could, for example, get one point for a shot at an enemy, two points for hitting the enemy, and five points for killing the enemy. But only under the weapon you used. So if you kill an enemy with a pistol, you wouldn't get rifle credit, etc. The kill accolades would keep track of what you actually killed and provide minor boosts regardless of weapon type.
And there is a diminishing return as you go up in rank. Getting to a Level 20 Borg Kill accolade will give you a minor boost against the Borg, but not as much as that Level 6 Kill accolade against the Gorn, etc. And going from Doctor to Neurosurgeon will add a great bonus but not as much as going from Team Leader to Squad Leader.
___________________________
In game: Commadore_Bob; Joined Jul 2009; That post count + 20,000
Oh.... that makes sense, now I see where you're coming from. While I love Skyrim and it has a reasonable progression system, I still don't see how such a mechanic would work in a multiplayer environment.
The thing about Skyrim, is that eventually you can reach 100% in almost every skill. While that makes sense for Skyrim, (you are the "Dragonborn" you should be able to do things everyone else can't) in the context of an MMO, that's kind of missing the point. After all, if one player can do everything, what's the point of forming a team?
You could have it so players have a limited pool of skill points to draw from and as you use skills, they get filled up, but that has it's own problems. Once you reach the endgame you could find yourself so comically specialized that you're useless, after all, miniguns can only do so much.
On the opposite end of the spectrum, you could be stuck with a severe case of "Jack of all trades, Master of diddly-squat" syndrome which is just as bad, if not worse. You could argue that buying a respec token would fix that, but that would render that sort of system moot point would it not?
That being said, I love the rest of your Ideas.
only downfall i see is to implement even half of the changes your talking about involving the skills, would require a COMPLETE overhaul of the game as it is, and I do not forsee them doing this, unless they get ALOT more subscribers, or perhaps come out with / up with "STO:2"
I have always been a fan of "Action" oriented advancement, I mean in the real world, if i everyday for 8 hours a day, walk around with 50 pounds strapped to my back, eventually i will get stronger / used to carrying that weight, and then i can either increase the weight, or start running instead of walking... or as you said earlier getting better by doing "if i shoot 50 times and miss 50 times, eventually i will learn from my mistakes and start adjusting my stance or whatever to hit" this can all be applied to the ground game of STO, but I cannot see your tactical officer getting better at hitting a target with ship weapons, since he is simply telling the computer what the target is, and when to fire. this aspect when applied to ships, would involve, adding bridge officer training as well as more options for stations / upgrades to ships, which could in fact be done through the crafting system, or perhaps as you stated with multi use items, (+10 accuracy for the next 25 shots, or 24 hours)
overall i love your ideas, I just dont forsee the devs doing it, unless they are planning on making a completely new game.
Well, again, this is designed to last beyond endgame. And the Skyrim example was just one example. I'm not saying use their system outright.
The idea is to give people the option. In the end, whether it is a grind or not is up to the player. Some people see grinding to max thief in Skyrim a grind while others enjoy the experience. Having a system where you earn your rank rather than one where it is given to you would shake up the MMO landscape.
You don't get ahead by copying everyone else. You get ahead by innovation. If Cryptic is known for one thing within the game development community, it's user choice. In STO we have more uniform options alone than some games have total appearance options. Why can't Cryptic be known for depth within their gameplay?
After all, how many other MMOs do you know that have personnel reports as part of their system?
With F2P being the norm going forward, I don't think you are going to see a lot of game relaunches. I think TOR was the exception of a franchise relaunching its MMO and the new chapter went F2P quicker than STO did. It makes more sense to revamp what people are already playing than to shut down what you have and start from scratch.
I agree this would be a massive upgrade to the progression system. So there would need to be some concessions. Kill counts and damage counts already take place, so all you would need to do is reward the appropriate amount of skill tree points. The ranks themselves will be a bit of an issue, but if you wipe everyone's slate clean and reward what they have earned, a lot of people would be able to get back to where they were.
That being said, they are planning a new player progression. I'm just providing my idea of how they should go forward.
___________________________
In game: Commadore_Bob; Joined Jul 2009; That post count + 20,000
___________________________
In game: Commadore_Bob; Joined Jul 2009; That post count + 20,000
Maybe as a "special" kind of Dabo. Not as the basic one. I mean what if someone who doesn't understand how it works start playing, and suddenly wind up with TRIBBLE loot? That wouldn't be good.
You'd need some way to undo it too. Perhaps if you get a certain amount of latinum in a certain amount of time you get better loot drops for the next hour or something. Like a "Winners Streak" buff.
No, the idea is the more you play, the better the loot. But also the chance you get zero. So instead of
51% no drop
31% common drop
11% uncommon drop
5% rare drop
2% Very Rare drop
It becomes
75% no drop
15% rare drop
10% very rare drop
And it would apply to lockboxes too. So they go from
50% No drop
48% Common Drop
2% Gold Drop
to
80% No drop
20% Gold drop
To a lot of people, that is win:win.
___________________________
In game: Commadore_Bob; Joined Jul 2009; That post count + 20,000
Enemies should have a set health and power. Instead of level matching, make it a mistake to go into fronts you don't need to be at. They can still rank up the Gorn, but be sure the Borg are downright impossible to defeat until you reach an appropriate rank.
___________________________
In game: Commadore_Bob; Joined Jul 2009; That post count + 20,000