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Stealth Detection Mechanics
dalnar83
Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
Something that has bothered me for some time. I do not understand how the stealth mechanics work at all, how the numbers affect stuff and such. The current GUI values are more than confusing. I mean I have the roughly idea, but cannot translate the numbers reliably to something that would give me some info like - the distance I will see cloaked ship under certain scenario.
So could someone explain me how it works ? Maybe some dev who understand the mechanics ?
There are several variables in the game:
Stealth Range
Stealth Detection Rating
Improved by:
+ Aux
+ X Starship Stealth
+ X Sensors
+ x% StealthSigh
Why must this stuff be so confusing ? If I wanted to make semi-specialized Nebula for KvF pvp, I do not even have slight idea what I'm doing, except for adding +sensors and hope for the best? When I cloak on my BoP it says something like 999999 km stealth range.
Why not change it to something more understandable?
Stealth Rating - rating of stealth at 10km, base stealth + aux + stealh
Stealth Detection Rating - rating of stealth detection at 10km, base detection + aux + sensors
Stealth Range Detection bonus - increases the max. range of sensors, thus improving the detection rating at 10 km, granted by special detection buffs / BO powers / Captain powers
Where those two values meet, you detect the target (simple math), everyone could do that roughly. Right now, for me the numbers do not give any sense.
I do not ask for reworking the mechanics, simply to change the GUI elements to something that does more sense to the player.
So could someone explain me how it works ? Maybe some dev who understand the mechanics ?
There are several variables in the game:
Stealth Range
Stealth Detection Rating
Improved by:
+ Aux
+ X Starship Stealth
+ X Sensors
+ x% StealthSigh
Why must this stuff be so confusing ? If I wanted to make semi-specialized Nebula for KvF pvp, I do not even have slight idea what I'm doing, except for adding +sensors and hope for the best? When I cloak on my BoP it says something like 999999 km stealth range.
Why not change it to something more understandable?
Stealth Rating - rating of stealth at 10km, base stealth + aux + stealh
Stealth Detection Rating - rating of stealth detection at 10km, base detection + aux + sensors
Stealth Range Detection bonus - increases the max. range of sensors, thus improving the detection rating at 10 km, granted by special detection buffs / BO powers / Captain powers
Where those two values meet, you detect the target (simple math), everyone could do that roughly. Right now, for me the numbers do not give any sense.
I do not ask for reworking the mechanics, simply to change the GUI elements to something that does more sense to the player.
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Post edited by dalnar83 on
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Stealth detection rating at something like 37 then jumps up when using aux battery.
Seems it's all built on the Kelvin temperature scale, while building it on the Celsius scale would have been more understandable. Giving a cruiser a score of 0 for detection, Sciships +5 and escorts -5. Then.
YourStealth>EnemyDetection=HeCaNottSeeYou.
YourStealth<EnemyDetection=HeCanSeeYou
From there on, it could be treated like damage resistance, with positive and negative values on both ships.(buffing and debuffing)
stealth skill- improves stealth
high aux- improves stealth
cloaking device- REALLY improves stealth
MES- moderately improves stealth
sensors skill- improves detection
high aux- improves detection
neb sensor net- REALLY improves detection
these factors add up to your stealth and detection rating. if your detection rating is higher then someones stealth rating, you can see them. if your stealth rating is higher then some ones detection rating, they cant see you.
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It is not confusing ? so tell me, at WHICH DISTANCE, you will see a cloaked target, when you have +170 sensors and 125 aux ? What has greatest impact ? Is the detection curve linear to the distance, or exponencial ? Is there even chance to reliable detect someone ? Does it even work reliably ? How often are the checks made ?
You just pointed the obvious simplest things but not what it means in game and how it works. You just used the simpleton logic...add more bonuses and you have better chance ..oh my...
and different ships can have different detection base values
only 8 variables to that equation...
distance? oh about 3 or 4 range when your a sci ship not necessarily looking for claoked targets, in my experience. get within 1 or 2 and anyone would see you. this is something thats best not over thought. if you want to detect cloakers, simply go for broke with aux and sensers. if you want to stay hidden, crank up the aux and spec into stealth. if you see someone you see someone. you want this all graphed out nice and neat? why? if you know how to maximize your chance, just maximize it and hope someone flys close enough. the rule of thumb is if you want to accomplish something, min max as hard as you can to accomplish it. its worked for me in every other aspect of the game
The tooltips are wrong, the system is confusing, and from my experience is more or less russian roulete than reliable detection system. Your "about" is useless. You are saying, go this road until you reach the town, when someone ask you how far it is. :rolleyes:
I'm simple asking for consistent and understandable information how the detection works and reliable tooltips.
I agree with you, most of us know to fly cloacked with max aux, but some more specific information would be definitely usefull. To be devils advocate, I do t think that's that easy to specify a distance, mainly because this involves the opponent's perception that's unknown. But with some explanations, we can kind of guess it, for a typical escort, cruiser or sci. We could calculate distances, our stealth, how that increases with distance or more exactly how perception decreases with distance and aux.
Edit: also, the less than 100% cloack that bortasqu has (98 or 96), how efficient in stealth is compared to regular cloack, meaning how much distance should we keep from an enemy ship to avoid detection.
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Also the tachyon console field is T3 as plasmonich beech console. So there should be reliable way to judge their "power" and impact in typical FvK scenario. If it even works, about which I'm not sure.
Cloak detection is pure PvP, it has no use in PvE. As cloaking NPCs are scripted so they decloak at 5km anyway, and in STF you cannot detect cloakers because of another script
It's only personal feeling though.
This also makes it harder to find an answer since only pvp would really give some accurate testing, sort of speak. No matter what you do you won't be able to decloack donatra in ka. Still people are trying, lol. Hopefully bort reads this and has few minutes to throw in some numbers.
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So 1 to 2 range and anyone would see you, isn't quite true. I did remove my 3 stealth consoles and at that point my foe was able to momentarily glimpse my ship. Right about then is when the Dev mentioned that even small changes like that could have great changes on stealth due to the mechanic involved.
So again really hard saying not knowing. I have full skill points in stealth, and I can't remember the last time someone ever popped me out of it, or that I had difficulty getting into it without them using an active ability.
But shootdrunkdontim, I think someone here is looking for the minimum they can do to get the maximum effect! They aren't like us! Kill them before they can breeeeed!!!!
Happy Hiding!
well i dont spec or try to be especially stealthy, and i just know not to get closer then that wile cloaked, especially to sci ships. if i did spec for stealth i would expect to get away with more.
ya thats the impression i got too, whats the least i can do? how do i best skate by? how do i half TRIBBLE this wile getting the result i want? based on the number of variable, you really have only 1 option, go for broke, ether in stealth or detection. that is unless you grab a buddy and do tests. add and remove consoles, raise and lower aux, get a feel for the the system, that will do you more good then a graph will
But it's been awhile since I actually tried that, maybe it's fixed now. All I know is that I never find cloaked targets unless I physically run into them while flying and I'm never found while cloaked unless a science ship hits me with sensor scan before I use my battle cloak.
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Technically not true at all. The Romulan/Remen Ship that the Donatra is(the ship class name escapes me will edit later once i get the name) Isn't scripted to be undetectable while in cloak. I have been known to be able to find this ship and pound on it with a patrol escort while it is suposed to be cloaked while the rest of my team watches me do it. The trick is to keep an eye on it as it flys off cloaking and predict its position along its path, once you find it cloaked you can do tremendous damage to it. All NPC are like that actually they have set behaviors when they cloak and are detectable just that romulan ship is the easiest to track.