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A Review of the Relative Value of Fleet Ships
smi3th
Member Posts: 218 Arc User
Now that fleet shipyards are going active, it's time to have a look at the new ships that are coming available and see if they are worth getting.
I know that people look for different things in a ship and I'm not going to try to say that one category of ship is better than another. I do generally prefer tactical ships myself, but it is not my intent to impose my views of them onto others. Instead I will analyse each ship in terms of "benchmarks," existing ships which are similar to the one being considered. I will show how each given ship is different (better or worse) than the one it is being compared to.
Of course, the new fleet-only ships fall into two categories: the so-called "Fleet" ships and non-fleet ships. You have to be in a fleet to get either of them but the Fleet ships require a fleet requisition, which requires that real money be paid in the form of Zen points, whereas a non-fleet ship only requires that fleet credits be spent (though it requires ten times as many). Wherever possible I will compare a ship to a ship of the same category, i.e. a Fleet ship should be compared to a ship that costs Zen, whereas a non-fleet ship should be compared to one of the ship types that you receive free at 40th level.
Yes, I know you can also buy one for 120,000 dilithium though I expect it is probably easier to get that than 200,000 fleet credits; you can grind that much in 15 days and you don't have to kiss your fleet leaders' behinds to do it.
Likewise the comparison between Fleet ships and Zen ships is not perfect, since a ship you purchase with Zen is playable on all your characters of that faction whereas a Fleet ship is only playable on the character that earned it. If you only have one character this is not an issue, but if you have eight (like myself - and I soon will have more) it makes a big difference. Since I have four KDF characters, when I bought the Guramba I was basically buying four of them.
Nevertheless I am going to try to evaluate the ships in comparison to existing ones. I rate them from one star (worst) to five stars (best). This is my rating scheme:
* Abysmal
The ship is considerably weaker than ships of its type (free or Zen) and offers no new loadout or abilities to make it worth experimenting with.
** Poor
The ship is either considerably weaker than ships of its type, but has some new design feature that sets it apart, or has no new features and is only slightly weaker than existing ships of its type.
*** Average
This ship is either comparable in power to an existing ship type or slightly weaker but adding new or interesting features. In my mind a fleet ship should be better than a ship of similar price since you also need to spend fleet credits to get it, but an average ship will make a worthwhile playing experience if you like that type of ship.
**** Good
This ship adds new features to existing ships with no loss in power or has no new features but is somewhat stronger. These are ships you should definitely consider getting.
***** Outstanding
This ship adds new features but is also more powerful than existing ships. I would say that these are a great value and are worth getting but also that you might find out that down the road PWE has nerfed them when players complain that they are too powerful.
=== KDF Tier 1 ===
Fleet Qin Raptor
Benchmark: Qin Raptor
Rating: ***
I know I said that I would compare paid ships to paid ships but in this case the closest comparison is naturally to the unpaid version of this ship. In this case, the Fleet Qin is superior to the Qin in a variety of ways. This is as you would expect for a paid version of an unpaid ship.
Pros: +1 Engineering Console Slot, +10% Hull, +10% Shields.
Cons: None.
The differences in the Fleet Qin Raptor make it a much hardier version of the basic Qin, while keeping the same DPS potential of the Qin (or if you add an engineering console that boosts weapon power then DPS will increase slightly). If you like flying Raptors then the Qin is a good buy. However it doesn't bring anything new to the game; it is just a souped-up Raptor, so if you like Raptors and don't mind paying for one I would get this, but otherswise you could hold out for something better.
In case you want to compare the Fleet Qin to the Guramba, here is the stats for that comparison. As you can see it still compares rather favourably:
Pros: +1 Engineering Console Slot, +17% Hull, +2% Shields, +5 Weapon Power level, Tactical Ensign Bridge Slot, Cloaking Device
Cons: -33% Crew, -5 Engine Power Level, No Engineering Ensign Bridge Slot, No Javelin
Fleet Scourge Retrofit
Benchmark: Guramba Siege Destroyer
Rating: ***
The Fleet Scourge Destroyer is an interesting design. Essentially similar to a Guramba, it exchanges the engineering ensign slot with a science ensign slot, allowing for a more science-focused Destroyer build. It also has a small turn rate buff; enough to be nice but not enough to be game-breaking.
Pros: +1 Science Console Slot, +2% Shields, +2 Turn Rate, Science Ensign Bridge Slot
Cons: -33% Crew, No Engineering Ensign Bridge Slot, No Javelin
As you can see the differences seem to offset each other fairly well, so I give this a rating of ***. However, if you already had bought the original Scourge Destroyer and are eligible for a Zen discount when buying this I would bump up the rating to ****.
Scourge Retrofit
Benchmark: Qin Raptor
Rating: ***
I consider the Scourge Destroyer Retrofit to be the "Poor Man's Guramba" since it plays similarly to a Guramba but is weaker and does not cost any Zen to buy. I am comparing it to a Qin though since the Qin is also a free ship.
Pros: +5 Engine Power level, Engineering Ensign Bridge Slot, +2 Turn Rate
Cons: -5 Weapon Power Level, -13% Hull, No Tactical Ensign Bridge Slot, No Cloaking Device
As you can see in this case, you sacrifice your cloaking device and 13% of your hull points for a small turn rate increase and a swap of your ensign tactical slot to engineering. I'm not sure that it is worth it although if you don't use your cloak much then maybe it is worthwhile. Nevertheless the Scourge Refit is a weak ship and you may find that you are forced to use that extra engineering ensign for ship heals to counter the fact that you have considerably less hull. If you really would like a good DPS ship that has that extra engineer then you could get this one but I would just be inclined to stick with the Qin. If you like the higher turn rate then I would recommend a bird-of-prey instead.
If you simply consider this to be an unpaid version of the Guramba this is how it stacks up against that:
Pros: +2 Turn Rate
Cons: -9% Hull, -8% Shields, -33% Crew, No Javelin.
Fleet K'T'Inga Retrofit
Benchmark: Vor'Cha Retrofit
Rating: *
I would have liked to compare the Fleet K'T'inga to a paid cruiser but the only one at this level is the Bortas'Qu and that is so different it would not be a good comparison. So I am comparing it to an unpaid ship with the expectation that as a paid ship it should be noticeably superior to the free Vor'Cha. Unfortunately, it is not better; it is in fact noticeably worse.
Pros: +1 Turn Rate, +1 Science Console Slot
Cons: -7% Hull, -6% Shield, -47% Crew
As you can see you are getting a console slot and a small turn rate buff for a noticable decrease in survivability. The extra console is nice but I can't remember ever hearing anyone say that the problem with the Vor'Cha is that it doesn't have enough science consoles. These stats would I think be acceptable in a free ship but not in a paid one. The look of the K'Tinga is classic but if you really want to fly around in one I would just get the Commander-Level one for a small amount of dilithium. Frankly if you are willing to spend $20 on this then I would suggest that I would be willing to punch you in the balls for a fee of only $10, which is a much better value.
It is unclear if owning the Koro'T'Inga gives you a discount on this ship or not. If it does and you already happen to have the Koro'T'Inga then I would upgrade this to **, but for God's sake don't go and buy the Koro'T'Inga just so you can get a better price for this ship.
K'T'Inga Retrofit
Benchmark: Vor'Cha Retrofit
Rating: *
The free K'T'inga Retrofit is just as much of an insult as the Fleet K'T'Inga, but at least it only cost you 200,000 fleet credits which took you weeks to grind out. The stats of this ship are so awful compared to the Vor'Cha that I really wish I could avoid listing them, but then someone might not believe me and go and buy this ship, so for your sakes I am listing them:
Pros: +1 Turn Rate
Cons: -13% Hull, -15% Shields, -47% Crew.
For God's sake do not buy this ship until PWE gets around to beefing its stats (if it ever does). If you really want fly a cruiser you would be better off deleting your character and staring over, earning the Vor'Cha Retrofit at level 40 for free. There's just no way to make this ship worthwhile. The only reason I can see for getting it is because you are a veteran player who wants to humiliate his enemies in PvP by killing them with a completely worthless ship. Yes, that would be humiliating all right.
=== KDF Tier 2 ===
Somraw Raptor Retrofit
Benchmark: Qin Raptor
Rating: **
It is curious that PWE chose the Somraw to make a fleet ship out of since the original ship is a lieutenant commander level ship and is never encountered among players (though technically it is buyable - there's just no reason you ever would buy one). In this case the Somraw Retrofit becomes a raptor with an engineering ensign bridge slot instead of a tactical one. I know this is something that a lot of players would like to see, but in this case it costs you dearly to get it.
Pros: +1 Turn Rate, +1 Engineering Ensign Bridge slot.
Cons: -5% Hull, -22% Shields, -50% Crew, No Tactical Ensign Bridge Slot.
In this case the extreme reduction in shield strength means that that extra engineering slot is desperately needed to keep your ship alive. So sadly this ship doesn't really measure up and I would not recommend getting it. If you want a free ship with this load you should probably get the Scourge Retrofit instead unless you really really need that cloaking device.
Fleet Somraw Raptor Retrofit
Benchmark: Guramba Siege Destroyer
Rating: **
Since the Somraw Retrofits have an engineering ensign instead of a tactical ensign it is reasonable to compare them to Destroyers instead of Raptors, though it does have a cloaking device. In this case the cloaking device is the main difference between this ship and a Guramba. So let's see what that cloaking device costs us:
Pros: +5 Weapon Power, +1 Science Console Slot, +10% Hull, +1 Turn Rate, Cloaking Device
Cons: -5 Engine Power, -21% Shields, -66% Crew, No Javelin.
The extra science console slot is nice, though why it's a science console and not a tac or eng console mystifies me. The extra hull is also nice and the turn bonus is marginal but always welcome. But in my mind losing over a fifth of your shields is a very serious drawback, one that is not compensated for getting the cloak, which never seems to do a lot other than give its user a brief 15% damage buff at the start of combat. Since you also lose the Javelin in this trade I don't see it as an advantage. Frankly if you want to fly an improved raptor the Fleet Qin is a much better buy. In fact, here's how it stacks up against the Fleet Qin:
Pros: +1 Turn Rate, +1 Engineering Ensign Bridge slot, +1 Science Console Slot.
Cons: -5% Hull, -23% Shields, -50% Crew, -1 Tacical Ensign Bridge slot, -1 Engineering Console Slot.
Would you give up an engineering console and a quarter of your shields to get a science console and replace your tac ensign with an eng ensign? No, me neither. To add insult to injury there is no paid version of the original Somraw so you have to pay the full $20 to get this ship.
Fleet Tor'Kaht Cruiser Retrofit
Benchmark: Vor'Cha Retrofit
Rating: ****
Though not everyone likes crusers this one is definitely the best Fleet ship available to the KDF so far in terms of what it does for them. Essentially the Tor'Kaht is a more tactically oriented cruiser which is something that I think a lot of cruiser captains would like to see. It does seem strange to me that this ship is called a "Retrofit" since I am unaware of any normal Tor'Kaht Cruisers available in the game. Unfortunately this also means there is no paid version of a base ship for this fleet vessel, meaning there is no discount available on it. But I expect it will sell well regardless.
I did have to compare it to an unpaid ship though as there are no top-tier paid cruisers aside from the Bortas'qu which is not a good comparison. In this light we expect that the Tor'Kaht has to be considerably better than the Vor'cha just to make an average rating. But not only is it better than the Vor'Cha stat-wise but it also has a more interesting loadout.
Pros: +10% Hull, +10 Shields, +1 Tactical Console, Tactical Ensign slot upgraded to Lt. Commander
Cons: Engineering Lt. Commander slot downgraded to Ensign.
The improvement of your Tactical power does come at the expense of some of your engineering bridge officer abilities, but the improvement in your hull and shield strength in my mind makes up for this, and Klingon cruiser captains will be happy to see that they now have a cruiser with some real firepower.
=== KDF Tier 3 ===
Corsair Retrofit
Benchmark: Vor'Cha Refit
Rating: *****
It was tough to decide which free ship to compare this one to, because it has fighters like a Vo'Quv but has engineering power and weapons like a Cruiser (I suppose that's why this is called a"Flight-Deck Cruiser"). Stat-wise it's a lot closer to a Vor'Cha Refit cruiser so I'll start there.
Pros: +5 Shield & Aux Power, +1 Science Console, +1 Science Ensign Bridge Slot, +16% Crew, +1 Device, +1 Hangar Bay.
Cons: -5 Weapon & Engine Power, -1 Tactical Console, -1 Tactical Ensign Bridge Slot, -2 Turn Rate.
Basically this ship functions a lot like a science-oriented version of a Vor'Cha refit, replacing the tac ensign and console with a science one. But on top of that you get an extra device and a hangar bay for fighters. All you lose in the swap is 2 points of Turn Rate. Yes, the turn rate loss hurts but with your engineering abilities and extra device slot you are able to boost it if you want. In my mind this makes for a very good trade.
Against the Vo'Quv it looks quite different:
Pros: +5 Shield, Weapon, & Engine Power, +1 Engineering Console, +1 Engineering Commander Bridge Slot, +2 Weapons, +3 Turn Rate.
Cons: -5 Auxiliary Power, -15% Hull, -56% Crew, -1 Hangar Bay, -1 Science Console, Tactical Lt. Commander Bridge Slot downgraded to Lieutenant, Science Commander Bridge Slot downgraded to Ensign, no Subsystem Targeting.
So we see that the science focus is switched to engineering and a hangar bay and 15% hull is lost but we get a 60% turn rate bonus and two more weapons. This in my mind is a good trade.
Finally you could also compare it to the Marauder Flight-Deck Cruiser which is a paid ship. The stats are almost the same; you lose 6% Hull and 8% crew but gain a point of Turn rate, which considering the Marauder's slow rate of turn is a trade I'd gladly make. So the Corsair Retrofit turns out to be slightly better than a similar paid ship and yet it is a free ship.
Since this ship does things that no other free ship does and seems more powerful that the Vor'Cha and the Vo'Quv, I rate this as *****. Though those of you who don't like to fly cruisers might not enjoy this one, it is overall by far the best non-fleet ship available.
Fleet Corsair Retrofit
Benchmark: Marauder Flight-Deck Cruiser
Rating: ****
Since a paid flight-deck cruiser exists in the game (the Marauder) it makes sense to start the comparison there:
Pros: +1 Science Console, +1 Science Ensign Bridge Slot upgraded to Lt. Commander, +10% Shields, +1 Turn Rate.
Cons: -1 Engineering Lt. Commander Bridge Slot downgraded to Ensign, -8% Crew.
So once again we see that like the non-fleet version this ship outclasses its competition and yet does something new. It takes the Marauder and adds some shields and turn rate, and at the same time moves it from an engineering focus to one more balanced between engineering and science. I don't think this ship is as good a deal as the non-fleet version but it does things that no other KDF ship does and doesn't suffer for it. If you like cruisers or carriers this is a good buy. And if you like science abilities you could consider this ship a *****.
Fleet Norgh Bird-of-Prey Retrofit
Benchmark: Hegh'Ta Bird-of-Prey
Rating: **
Since the only paid Bird-of-Prey (the B'Rel Refit) is valuable because of a very powerful ability and not for its stats, the best comparison for the Fleet Norgh is the free Hegh'Ta. Like the others we would expect that the Fleet Norgh is superior to the free Hegh'Ta. However the value of the Fleet Norgh is in it's bridge officer layout; one of the Lieutenant bridge slots becomes a Lt. Commander slot. And there's a lot of useful abilities that you can only get at rank 3 or higher, so that slot is valuable. However you lose a lot to get it:
Pros: +1 Lieutenant Universal Bridge Slot upgraded to Lt. Commander, +1 Turn Rate
Cons: -31% Hull, -18% Shields, -25% Crew.
So the enhanced bridge slot comes at a price of severe loss in survivability. The Hegh'Ta already pops pretty easily and now we see a huge drop in shields and hull. This is not a trade I would be willing to make. It might be all right in a free ship (though I'm still not sure about that) but losing all that defense and having to shell out Zen seems ridiculous. I wanted to rate this ship as a * but the fact that the ship does give you something new makes it not a complete write-off.
The one upside to this is that if you are willing to pay for ships then you probably have bought the original Norgh Refit upgrade (the Ning'Tao) because it gave you those quad disruptor cannons which are always useful. Therefore if you are considering getting this ship you probably only need 500 Zen instead of 2000, and if you want this ship I would suggest getting the original Ning'Tao for 1000 Zen and this ship for 500 Zen rather than shelling out 2000 Zen for this up front. However, even if this ship is only going to cost you $5 instead of $20 I would still just take your quad cannons and put them on your free Hegh'Ta. PWE really needs to boost this ship's defenses before anyone takes it seriously.
Unfortunately I hit a character limit so I can't fit all 5 tiers into one post. So you'll find tiers 4 and 5 here:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=5103501#post5103501
Enjoy!
I know that people look for different things in a ship and I'm not going to try to say that one category of ship is better than another. I do generally prefer tactical ships myself, but it is not my intent to impose my views of them onto others. Instead I will analyse each ship in terms of "benchmarks," existing ships which are similar to the one being considered. I will show how each given ship is different (better or worse) than the one it is being compared to.
Of course, the new fleet-only ships fall into two categories: the so-called "Fleet" ships and non-fleet ships. You have to be in a fleet to get either of them but the Fleet ships require a fleet requisition, which requires that real money be paid in the form of Zen points, whereas a non-fleet ship only requires that fleet credits be spent (though it requires ten times as many). Wherever possible I will compare a ship to a ship of the same category, i.e. a Fleet ship should be compared to a ship that costs Zen, whereas a non-fleet ship should be compared to one of the ship types that you receive free at 40th level.
Yes, I know you can also buy one for 120,000 dilithium though I expect it is probably easier to get that than 200,000 fleet credits; you can grind that much in 15 days and you don't have to kiss your fleet leaders' behinds to do it.
Likewise the comparison between Fleet ships and Zen ships is not perfect, since a ship you purchase with Zen is playable on all your characters of that faction whereas a Fleet ship is only playable on the character that earned it. If you only have one character this is not an issue, but if you have eight (like myself - and I soon will have more) it makes a big difference. Since I have four KDF characters, when I bought the Guramba I was basically buying four of them.
Nevertheless I am going to try to evaluate the ships in comparison to existing ones. I rate them from one star (worst) to five stars (best). This is my rating scheme:
* Abysmal
The ship is considerably weaker than ships of its type (free or Zen) and offers no new loadout or abilities to make it worth experimenting with.
** Poor
The ship is either considerably weaker than ships of its type, but has some new design feature that sets it apart, or has no new features and is only slightly weaker than existing ships of its type.
*** Average
This ship is either comparable in power to an existing ship type or slightly weaker but adding new or interesting features. In my mind a fleet ship should be better than a ship of similar price since you also need to spend fleet credits to get it, but an average ship will make a worthwhile playing experience if you like that type of ship.
**** Good
This ship adds new features to existing ships with no loss in power or has no new features but is somewhat stronger. These are ships you should definitely consider getting.
***** Outstanding
This ship adds new features but is also more powerful than existing ships. I would say that these are a great value and are worth getting but also that you might find out that down the road PWE has nerfed them when players complain that they are too powerful.
=== KDF Tier 1 ===
Fleet Qin Raptor
Benchmark: Qin Raptor
Rating: ***
I know I said that I would compare paid ships to paid ships but in this case the closest comparison is naturally to the unpaid version of this ship. In this case, the Fleet Qin is superior to the Qin in a variety of ways. This is as you would expect for a paid version of an unpaid ship.
Pros: +1 Engineering Console Slot, +10% Hull, +10% Shields.
Cons: None.
The differences in the Fleet Qin Raptor make it a much hardier version of the basic Qin, while keeping the same DPS potential of the Qin (or if you add an engineering console that boosts weapon power then DPS will increase slightly). If you like flying Raptors then the Qin is a good buy. However it doesn't bring anything new to the game; it is just a souped-up Raptor, so if you like Raptors and don't mind paying for one I would get this, but otherswise you could hold out for something better.
In case you want to compare the Fleet Qin to the Guramba, here is the stats for that comparison. As you can see it still compares rather favourably:
Pros: +1 Engineering Console Slot, +17% Hull, +2% Shields, +5 Weapon Power level, Tactical Ensign Bridge Slot, Cloaking Device
Cons: -33% Crew, -5 Engine Power Level, No Engineering Ensign Bridge Slot, No Javelin
Fleet Scourge Retrofit
Benchmark: Guramba Siege Destroyer
Rating: ***
The Fleet Scourge Destroyer is an interesting design. Essentially similar to a Guramba, it exchanges the engineering ensign slot with a science ensign slot, allowing for a more science-focused Destroyer build. It also has a small turn rate buff; enough to be nice but not enough to be game-breaking.
Pros: +1 Science Console Slot, +2% Shields, +2 Turn Rate, Science Ensign Bridge Slot
Cons: -33% Crew, No Engineering Ensign Bridge Slot, No Javelin
As you can see the differences seem to offset each other fairly well, so I give this a rating of ***. However, if you already had bought the original Scourge Destroyer and are eligible for a Zen discount when buying this I would bump up the rating to ****.
Scourge Retrofit
Benchmark: Qin Raptor
Rating: ***
I consider the Scourge Destroyer Retrofit to be the "Poor Man's Guramba" since it plays similarly to a Guramba but is weaker and does not cost any Zen to buy. I am comparing it to a Qin though since the Qin is also a free ship.
Pros: +5 Engine Power level, Engineering Ensign Bridge Slot, +2 Turn Rate
Cons: -5 Weapon Power Level, -13% Hull, No Tactical Ensign Bridge Slot, No Cloaking Device
As you can see in this case, you sacrifice your cloaking device and 13% of your hull points for a small turn rate increase and a swap of your ensign tactical slot to engineering. I'm not sure that it is worth it although if you don't use your cloak much then maybe it is worthwhile. Nevertheless the Scourge Refit is a weak ship and you may find that you are forced to use that extra engineering ensign for ship heals to counter the fact that you have considerably less hull. If you really would like a good DPS ship that has that extra engineer then you could get this one but I would just be inclined to stick with the Qin. If you like the higher turn rate then I would recommend a bird-of-prey instead.
If you simply consider this to be an unpaid version of the Guramba this is how it stacks up against that:
Pros: +2 Turn Rate
Cons: -9% Hull, -8% Shields, -33% Crew, No Javelin.
Fleet K'T'Inga Retrofit
Benchmark: Vor'Cha Retrofit
Rating: *
I would have liked to compare the Fleet K'T'inga to a paid cruiser but the only one at this level is the Bortas'Qu and that is so different it would not be a good comparison. So I am comparing it to an unpaid ship with the expectation that as a paid ship it should be noticeably superior to the free Vor'Cha. Unfortunately, it is not better; it is in fact noticeably worse.
Pros: +1 Turn Rate, +1 Science Console Slot
Cons: -7% Hull, -6% Shield, -47% Crew
As you can see you are getting a console slot and a small turn rate buff for a noticable decrease in survivability. The extra console is nice but I can't remember ever hearing anyone say that the problem with the Vor'Cha is that it doesn't have enough science consoles. These stats would I think be acceptable in a free ship but not in a paid one. The look of the K'Tinga is classic but if you really want to fly around in one I would just get the Commander-Level one for a small amount of dilithium. Frankly if you are willing to spend $20 on this then I would suggest that I would be willing to punch you in the balls for a fee of only $10, which is a much better value.
It is unclear if owning the Koro'T'Inga gives you a discount on this ship or not. If it does and you already happen to have the Koro'T'Inga then I would upgrade this to **, but for God's sake don't go and buy the Koro'T'Inga just so you can get a better price for this ship.
K'T'Inga Retrofit
Benchmark: Vor'Cha Retrofit
Rating: *
The free K'T'inga Retrofit is just as much of an insult as the Fleet K'T'Inga, but at least it only cost you 200,000 fleet credits which took you weeks to grind out. The stats of this ship are so awful compared to the Vor'Cha that I really wish I could avoid listing them, but then someone might not believe me and go and buy this ship, so for your sakes I am listing them:
Pros: +1 Turn Rate
Cons: -13% Hull, -15% Shields, -47% Crew.
For God's sake do not buy this ship until PWE gets around to beefing its stats (if it ever does). If you really want fly a cruiser you would be better off deleting your character and staring over, earning the Vor'Cha Retrofit at level 40 for free. There's just no way to make this ship worthwhile. The only reason I can see for getting it is because you are a veteran player who wants to humiliate his enemies in PvP by killing them with a completely worthless ship. Yes, that would be humiliating all right.
=== KDF Tier 2 ===
Somraw Raptor Retrofit
Benchmark: Qin Raptor
Rating: **
It is curious that PWE chose the Somraw to make a fleet ship out of since the original ship is a lieutenant commander level ship and is never encountered among players (though technically it is buyable - there's just no reason you ever would buy one). In this case the Somraw Retrofit becomes a raptor with an engineering ensign bridge slot instead of a tactical one. I know this is something that a lot of players would like to see, but in this case it costs you dearly to get it.
Pros: +1 Turn Rate, +1 Engineering Ensign Bridge slot.
Cons: -5% Hull, -22% Shields, -50% Crew, No Tactical Ensign Bridge Slot.
In this case the extreme reduction in shield strength means that that extra engineering slot is desperately needed to keep your ship alive. So sadly this ship doesn't really measure up and I would not recommend getting it. If you want a free ship with this load you should probably get the Scourge Retrofit instead unless you really really need that cloaking device.
Fleet Somraw Raptor Retrofit
Benchmark: Guramba Siege Destroyer
Rating: **
Since the Somraw Retrofits have an engineering ensign instead of a tactical ensign it is reasonable to compare them to Destroyers instead of Raptors, though it does have a cloaking device. In this case the cloaking device is the main difference between this ship and a Guramba. So let's see what that cloaking device costs us:
Pros: +5 Weapon Power, +1 Science Console Slot, +10% Hull, +1 Turn Rate, Cloaking Device
Cons: -5 Engine Power, -21% Shields, -66% Crew, No Javelin.
The extra science console slot is nice, though why it's a science console and not a tac or eng console mystifies me. The extra hull is also nice and the turn bonus is marginal but always welcome. But in my mind losing over a fifth of your shields is a very serious drawback, one that is not compensated for getting the cloak, which never seems to do a lot other than give its user a brief 15% damage buff at the start of combat. Since you also lose the Javelin in this trade I don't see it as an advantage. Frankly if you want to fly an improved raptor the Fleet Qin is a much better buy. In fact, here's how it stacks up against the Fleet Qin:
Pros: +1 Turn Rate, +1 Engineering Ensign Bridge slot, +1 Science Console Slot.
Cons: -5% Hull, -23% Shields, -50% Crew, -1 Tacical Ensign Bridge slot, -1 Engineering Console Slot.
Would you give up an engineering console and a quarter of your shields to get a science console and replace your tac ensign with an eng ensign? No, me neither. To add insult to injury there is no paid version of the original Somraw so you have to pay the full $20 to get this ship.
Fleet Tor'Kaht Cruiser Retrofit
Benchmark: Vor'Cha Retrofit
Rating: ****
Though not everyone likes crusers this one is definitely the best Fleet ship available to the KDF so far in terms of what it does for them. Essentially the Tor'Kaht is a more tactically oriented cruiser which is something that I think a lot of cruiser captains would like to see. It does seem strange to me that this ship is called a "Retrofit" since I am unaware of any normal Tor'Kaht Cruisers available in the game. Unfortunately this also means there is no paid version of a base ship for this fleet vessel, meaning there is no discount available on it. But I expect it will sell well regardless.
I did have to compare it to an unpaid ship though as there are no top-tier paid cruisers aside from the Bortas'qu which is not a good comparison. In this light we expect that the Tor'Kaht has to be considerably better than the Vor'cha just to make an average rating. But not only is it better than the Vor'Cha stat-wise but it also has a more interesting loadout.
Pros: +10% Hull, +10 Shields, +1 Tactical Console, Tactical Ensign slot upgraded to Lt. Commander
Cons: Engineering Lt. Commander slot downgraded to Ensign.
The improvement of your Tactical power does come at the expense of some of your engineering bridge officer abilities, but the improvement in your hull and shield strength in my mind makes up for this, and Klingon cruiser captains will be happy to see that they now have a cruiser with some real firepower.
=== KDF Tier 3 ===
Corsair Retrofit
Benchmark: Vor'Cha Refit
Rating: *****
It was tough to decide which free ship to compare this one to, because it has fighters like a Vo'Quv but has engineering power and weapons like a Cruiser (I suppose that's why this is called a"Flight-Deck Cruiser"). Stat-wise it's a lot closer to a Vor'Cha Refit cruiser so I'll start there.
Pros: +5 Shield & Aux Power, +1 Science Console, +1 Science Ensign Bridge Slot, +16% Crew, +1 Device, +1 Hangar Bay.
Cons: -5 Weapon & Engine Power, -1 Tactical Console, -1 Tactical Ensign Bridge Slot, -2 Turn Rate.
Basically this ship functions a lot like a science-oriented version of a Vor'Cha refit, replacing the tac ensign and console with a science one. But on top of that you get an extra device and a hangar bay for fighters. All you lose in the swap is 2 points of Turn Rate. Yes, the turn rate loss hurts but with your engineering abilities and extra device slot you are able to boost it if you want. In my mind this makes for a very good trade.
Against the Vo'Quv it looks quite different:
Pros: +5 Shield, Weapon, & Engine Power, +1 Engineering Console, +1 Engineering Commander Bridge Slot, +2 Weapons, +3 Turn Rate.
Cons: -5 Auxiliary Power, -15% Hull, -56% Crew, -1 Hangar Bay, -1 Science Console, Tactical Lt. Commander Bridge Slot downgraded to Lieutenant, Science Commander Bridge Slot downgraded to Ensign, no Subsystem Targeting.
So we see that the science focus is switched to engineering and a hangar bay and 15% hull is lost but we get a 60% turn rate bonus and two more weapons. This in my mind is a good trade.
Finally you could also compare it to the Marauder Flight-Deck Cruiser which is a paid ship. The stats are almost the same; you lose 6% Hull and 8% crew but gain a point of Turn rate, which considering the Marauder's slow rate of turn is a trade I'd gladly make. So the Corsair Retrofit turns out to be slightly better than a similar paid ship and yet it is a free ship.
Since this ship does things that no other free ship does and seems more powerful that the Vor'Cha and the Vo'Quv, I rate this as *****. Though those of you who don't like to fly cruisers might not enjoy this one, it is overall by far the best non-fleet ship available.
Fleet Corsair Retrofit
Benchmark: Marauder Flight-Deck Cruiser
Rating: ****
Since a paid flight-deck cruiser exists in the game (the Marauder) it makes sense to start the comparison there:
Pros: +1 Science Console, +1 Science Ensign Bridge Slot upgraded to Lt. Commander, +10% Shields, +1 Turn Rate.
Cons: -1 Engineering Lt. Commander Bridge Slot downgraded to Ensign, -8% Crew.
So once again we see that like the non-fleet version this ship outclasses its competition and yet does something new. It takes the Marauder and adds some shields and turn rate, and at the same time moves it from an engineering focus to one more balanced between engineering and science. I don't think this ship is as good a deal as the non-fleet version but it does things that no other KDF ship does and doesn't suffer for it. If you like cruisers or carriers this is a good buy. And if you like science abilities you could consider this ship a *****.
Fleet Norgh Bird-of-Prey Retrofit
Benchmark: Hegh'Ta Bird-of-Prey
Rating: **
Since the only paid Bird-of-Prey (the B'Rel Refit) is valuable because of a very powerful ability and not for its stats, the best comparison for the Fleet Norgh is the free Hegh'Ta. Like the others we would expect that the Fleet Norgh is superior to the free Hegh'Ta. However the value of the Fleet Norgh is in it's bridge officer layout; one of the Lieutenant bridge slots becomes a Lt. Commander slot. And there's a lot of useful abilities that you can only get at rank 3 or higher, so that slot is valuable. However you lose a lot to get it:
Pros: +1 Lieutenant Universal Bridge Slot upgraded to Lt. Commander, +1 Turn Rate
Cons: -31% Hull, -18% Shields, -25% Crew.
So the enhanced bridge slot comes at a price of severe loss in survivability. The Hegh'Ta already pops pretty easily and now we see a huge drop in shields and hull. This is not a trade I would be willing to make. It might be all right in a free ship (though I'm still not sure about that) but losing all that defense and having to shell out Zen seems ridiculous. I wanted to rate this ship as a * but the fact that the ship does give you something new makes it not a complete write-off.
The one upside to this is that if you are willing to pay for ships then you probably have bought the original Norgh Refit upgrade (the Ning'Tao) because it gave you those quad disruptor cannons which are always useful. Therefore if you are considering getting this ship you probably only need 500 Zen instead of 2000, and if you want this ship I would suggest getting the original Ning'Tao for 1000 Zen and this ship for 500 Zen rather than shelling out 2000 Zen for this up front. However, even if this ship is only going to cost you $5 instead of $20 I would still just take your quad cannons and put them on your free Hegh'Ta. PWE really needs to boost this ship's defenses before anyone takes it seriously.
Unfortunately I hit a character limit so I can't fit all 5 tiers into one post. So you'll find tiers 4 and 5 here:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=5103501#post5103501
Enjoy!
Post edited by smi3th on
0
Comments
If you've been L50 for awhile you have a spare million or 4 Expertise. You just need to be able to contribute it. In a big fleet this will be hard in a small fleet not so much.
Let's not forget Fleet Marks are easy to get and reward 150, but you do need 1340 of them roughly.
This is a really good comparison are you doing the other ships too? I'm not sure if I like the concept of the Vor'Cha refit.
Edit:
I swear at one stage I was getting those numbers but perhaps it was an error.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
For example, the Scourge Retrofit. You are benching it against a raptor when it isn't meant to be a raptor. Its features are extremely similar to the jem bug ship and its boff layout is how most pvpers would setup the bug as well. If anything you should be comparing it to the fleet escort, or the bug ship.
Considering the boff layout, turn rate, console slots, I'd say this is an excellent ship for its price. Its only real drawback in my opinion would be its lower shield modifier. Saying the lack of a tac ensign slot is a drawback is rather silly as well, since the slot is generally considered a waste as it is. The extra engi ensign slot is vastly superior.
Basically it's a more agile, less tanky fleet escort. Seems perfect.
Of course I'm talking form a pvp perspective. What other perspective is there, really? When the pve content is easy enough to do in any ship with nearly any setup, there's really only one other option. After all, if your build does well in pvp it will steamroll anything in pve.
However, can someone do this for fed fleet ships, too?
Formerly Traven158
My fleet isn't that large but there are enough active players that most of the easy contributions are snapped up within a minute of a project going active. I am only able to cash in expertise by camping out and donating the second a project comes live. Most of our projects I have missed the start time and got the "scraps." Most of the credits I have earned so far have been from Doffs and from Fleet Marks though I have dropped in commodities and expertise as well. I am currently at about 170,000 credits, and am fifth or sixth in the rankings in my fleet.
The problem is if you are in a small fleet the projects take a long time to complete which means more opportunites to cash in on any given project but less projects overall so it balances out I think.
So far every fleet mark I have donated has only given me 50 credits, not 150. You are right though in that Fleet Marks are probably the best way for a player to earn credits. They are the one thing you couldn't have stockpiled before season 6 went live and despite some dedicated grinders they always seem to be the last to fill on any project.
I plan on doing reviews of all the Fleet ships; things are just rather time consuming.
I don't have the stats of the Jem Bug in front of me but I'll take your word for it. However I am not going to benchmark it against a Fleet Escort (actually they are called Blockade Escorts now) because a KDF player will never have the chance to buy one. And since the bug costs over 100 million EC I think comparing it to that puts a free ship against a ship that takes a long long long time to grind out the resources for. A raptor is the only free ship that has similar performance.
I was actually tempted to make this one a 2.5 stars instead of 2 because I feel it is borderline. It is certainly the best of the free KDF ships available at tier 1, and pretty soon I expect we'll see a bunch of them flying around.
And I am not saying that losing a tac ensign slot in favour of an eng ensign slot is a drawback. I am simply listing all the things you win and all the things you lose; I agree that I'd much rather have the engi slot. However, having it means that you have to sacrifice a number of things, and I think the engi slot ends up simply compensating for the fact that it's a flimsier ship. And I don't think the turn rate boost is enough to balance it out.
The closest ship in design to this one, though, is really the Guramba, which has the same power levels, console slots, and boff slots, and I did a comparison of those too. The Scourge is weaker than the Guramba, but not by a terrible amount, so in that light the Scourge Retrofit is a decent buy, though 1:1 against a Guramba I'd be quite surprised if the Scourge won.
Peet
Edit: First Tier Fed ships are done:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=4932681#post4932681
Peet
Also, Wienerbutt, I decided to upgrade the rating of the Scourge Retrofit to ***. You talked me into it. I still think that if you want that kind of ship you should get a Guramba and since a discount is available for buying the original ship you can always grab the console off the original and get the paid version of this ship. But if you are insistent on not paying any Zen then yes, this is not a bad buy. On the other hand, if you are not generating fleet credits that fast you might want to hold out for the Hoh'Sus BOP Retrofit that comes out at Tier 4.
Peet
1) the pro/con part
I would concentrate on relevant information: "+5 Weapon power/-5 engine power" simply equals out (its just a slight change in your power setup) and other information simply sound to drastical: "-33% Crew size"...sounds dramatic, but a value that changes almost nothing. (A Bortasque has 3600 crew, a B'Rel 30 but if you compare them you would not write "-12000% Crew", would you?
2) Ratings
2.1) IMO the Fleet-Qin should get 4 Stars, simply because it is the better ship if you compare it to the fleet scourge: both ships are almost identical in most statistics only with another focus(10 consoles, boff ranks etc.), but while the Qin has almost 5000 hit points more and a cloaking device and a (slight) advantage in interia, the scourge only offers a slightly better turnrate.
Also it is a kind of "logical improvement": if you fly a Qin and love it, the Fleet Qin is a "must buy": it is simpy better in all aspects, so there is no reason not to buy it (except for the price of course!).
On the other hand if you fly a Garumba and love it, there is little to no reason to give it up for a Fleet Scourge: sure you get the additional console, but you lose the javelin for it.
In short:
FleetQin > Qin
FleetScourge = Garumba
FleetQin > FleetScourge
2.2) The Regular Scourge retrofit is only 2 or even only 1 Star for me: there is simply no reason to buy it if you already have a Qin (Dont forget: a free ship!) or Garumba.
2.3) I don't see the Fleet somraw in such a bad shape.
For me it is another concept for a raptor. The core sentence is this: In fact the additional Sci console almost even out the worse shield: put in a rare Mk.XI Field Generator and the diference is only a more or less marginal -4%.
The change in the ensign slot from tac to eng does not sound much but IMO it is: the tac eng is almost wastet. Most Qin builds I know use THY1 and a single torpedo just to give it any meaning. But you don't really need it, as you can exchange the torp easily for a non-buffable variant like HargPeng.
the eng.ensign on the other hand comes in very handy: on the regular Qin you don'T have more hull heal than hazzard emitters, as you need your 2 engieer skills for EPTS1 and EPTS2 for permanent shield increase.
Now I can use 2x EPTS1 and e.g. EngineeringTeam2
->On paper the Fleet somraw looks weak, but IMO it has the potential for the "more resilent Qin" an deserves ***
Also uses/unlocks Vor'Kang skin which is also purchasable in cstore. So a plus.
Shame owning the cstore Vor'Kang doesn't give discount for Fleet Tor'Kaht. So that's a con.
Spot on with the Fleet Tor'Khat rating though, can't wait for my eng to upgrade from the Vorcha refit. It seems to me to have been designed as a damage dealer with more than enough self survival with the boff arrangement, definitely wouldn't set this one up as a healer / dmg hybrid like my current Vorcha though.
Well, my goal is to show everything and let players decide what aspects are important to them. Obviously things like Hull, Shields, and bridge slots are very important and most players who are able to afford these ships already know that.
Obviously math is not your strong point. You would say -99.2% Crew. If you have -100% crew then you have no crew left at all.
Well, if you look at the thread from earlier, I was going to give the Fleet Scourge a ** instead of a ***. I agree that the Fleet Qin is better than the Fleet Scourge but the problem is the rating of the Scourge which probably should be about 2.5 instead of 3, but I wanted to stick to whole numbers.
However, the Fleet Scourge loses the tac ensign in favour of an eng ensign, which is a big advantage. Even Qin lovers often agree that the extra tac ensign is kind of a waste.
And the price is the issue. I used the Qin as a benchmark because it is the most similar ship, but you get the Qin for free at level 40 and you have to pay $20 for the Fleet Qin. A ship that costs $20 had better be an improvement over the free one just to make it worth spending the money. If the Fleet Qin was a free ship it would be **** for sure. but as it is a paid ship we turn it down a notch when benchmarking it against a free ship.
*** means that it is a decent buy and if you like that class of ship it is worth trying out.
**** means that it is a really good buy and you might want to consider the ship even if you don't normally fly that kind of ship. I don't think the Fleet Qin is at that point. If the Tac Ensign slot became a universal slot then it would also be **** for sure.
Again there is the price issue. You already paid $20 for your Guramba. Are you going to pay another $20 for a ship class that you already basically have? I doubt it. But if you have neither the Guramba or the Scourge then there is a choice to make as to which you get and I can see some people choosing the Scourge, though I feel the Guramba is better. If a Fleet Guramba ever came out I would be all over that puppy.
The regular Scourge Retrofit is also a free ship, so comparing it to a Guramba is a little foolish. Nobody who has a Guramba will bother with the regular Scourge even if it is free since they shelled out $20 for their Guramba. And if you have a Qin already you probably won't, but you might if you want a ship with an engineering ensign instead of a tac.
The real question is if you had neither a Qin nor a Scourge Retrofit, but were going to get one of the two, which would you get? There are reasons for getting either one, and fleet credits can be easier to earn than dilithium.
So you fill the extra console slot with the most expensive console type in the game and the ship still isn't as good? My point stands that you should only get the Fleet Somraw if you think cloaking devices are really great. In my mind cloaks are nice but not that special.
I agree!
Funny that you didn't feel that way when talking about the Fleet Scourge. The Fleet Somraw is weaker than the Scourge and only gets a cloak to make up for it. I don't think this is a good trade.
Thanks for this. I actually saw one flying around in the game and wondered if it was a Fleet ship so soon. I found the Spidermitch charts and it's on there, so that settles that... it also may nail the lid of the coffin on the idea that there might be a Fleet Vor'Cha. I guess the Tor'Kaht is it.
I agree. I would suggest petitioning PWE but I know they don't speak Klingon.
That's the point though. It's an upgrade that costs money. To break even it has to be better to compensate for what you're paying.
The Qin does have better stats in many areas, but of course it has no Javelin and only one engineer bridge slot. I think it comes down to playing style but the ships are comparable.
However, as I mentioned in my intro, a Fleet ship is more expensive than a Zen-Store ship. They both cost $20, but the Fleet ship also costs 20,000 fleet credits, and you need permission from your fleet leaders to get it. Meanwhile it only flies on one of your toons while if you pay for the Guramba all your KDF characters have one.
Yes, thanks. I agree that this one is definitely on my shopping list.
Peet
Peet
You are right: I just used the 3600/30 ratio = 120 and put an "-" before
This is not a very valid argument, as you don't have to pay for c-Store/Zen Ships, asyou can always convert dilithium.
And a Qin is not free, you can only get one for free. It has a price of 120.000 dil or ~517 Zen (at the current rate). This is also roughly 4.50?/5$.
So to be fair you should be fair and translate all ships into the same currency: dil (or, as dil is capped at 8000/day, you can use "time needed to get one", so 15 days for a Qin etc.)
Even "free fleet ships" are not free: they usually cost around 200.000 fleet credits, and itnot only takes some time, it costs something (time, XP, Doffs, Creds, even dil) not only to get the fleet credits, but to develop the starbase.
And finally you should not use a 'kind act' of the developers (free ship every 10 levels or "ingame-items worth of 10$") against them.
You don't say "Oh, a bottle of Ouzo is worthless, because you get an ouzo for free everytime you eat in a greek restaurant", do you?
You are not serious are you? Blue MkXI (+17,5) can be crafted....
Scourge gets a sci, not an eng. ensign. This makes the Somraw better than the Scourge, IMHO.
But yes, I give the cloak a high value: in PvP it gives you the first strike, what IS a big advantage for an 'escort'
EDIT:
Oh, and you whole rating on "free vs. free" and "paid vs. paid" is a bit strange.
First you should compare it to any ship in a similar role and/or other ships in the same class.
The fleet corsair is better than the free corsair in every aspect (sure, you pay more for it) so it is strange to give the free version 5 stars, and the fleet version only 4.
... perhaps there should be two ratings: one simply based on performance, and one that compares the price in relation to the performance.
Simply because there are a lot of players were the price simply does not matter: either they have large amounts of dil or they don't bother to pay 20 bucks...
Giving it a boff layout that already exists rather than one that's so far not in the KDF roster and was generally one we asked for seems either ignorant, or poorly reasoned, and more evidence of the divide between the people who code/come up with stats etc, and the player base. I think if they'd toned it's stats down further, they could've justified giving it battle cloak which would tally with a lot of what we saw them doing in TNG, DS9 and Voy (albeit a D7 that time). Instead it's in this awkward tier 4.5 sort of limbo.
I think the way they've made some of the fleet ships, especially KDF ones, not quite balanced up to par, is really something that ought to be reviewed once these ships have been around and tested for a bit.
Of course, if they'd made them available for testing on tribble like we'd asked, this wouldn't have happened. But as we all know, inspite of often ignored feedback threads, it's only purpose is for them to stress test new code. I'd advise people to just log in for the freebies and sneak peeks and save themselves some bother with it in future.
That's why it takes so much dilithium. Grinding out 500,000 dilithium to pay for one fleet ship can take a long, long time. It helps if you have lots of alts but it still takes a lot of time. Considering how much time it takes to earn I think it is fair to say that a ship that takes 2000 Zen plus 20,000 fleet credits to buy needs to be superior to one that you can get for free at level 40 to be a fair value.
How many Qins do you want?
Unless you are the type of player that has to have one of everything I think it's unlikely that these ships get bought very often.
Yes, although it was about $3 three weeks ago. Dilithium has gone up considerably in value lately, which is good for us free players. Though as I mentioned before, how often are people actually buying these ships? Very rarely. It costs about the same amount to get two more character slots and then get different ships when you get to level 40.
Naturally I am aware of this. But of course, most of the things that get you fleet credits can either be bought with EC or you can gather by playing. Fleet Marks are easy to earn and pay off big in terms of Fleet Credits, so if that was the only thing you bothered to contribute you could still earn enough to buy a ship in a week or less if you were online a lot. 4000 fleet marks gets you a fleet ship and I typically earn about 300 farming Nukara during a single 2-hour fleet event.
Who says I am against the Developers?
Simply put, some of these ships are great, and some are not so great. Since there are two price categories and one category is more expensive than the other, in my mind the more expensive ships need to be held to a higher standard.
You need to let me know what Greek restaurant you go to. :P
But of course even in that case you are paying for it the cost of it (as well as all the restaurant's other operating costs) are rolled into the price of your meal. Go in there for the free ouzo and then don't order any food, and see what happens.
In which case you pay a pile of Dilithium instead that maybe you were saving to convert to Zen, and forces you to consume some data that you could have sold for tons of EC. So yes, that's not a great deal, really.
You are right, it's the non-fleet Scourge that gets the Eng Ensign. Of course it all depends on who you are fighting. Against the Borg I'd much rather have the extra sci so I could double up on hazard emitters and still have some other sci ability.
Typically I find it takes my enemies less than a second to respond to my 'surprise attack,' and while I do a high DPS as an escort I certainly am not good enough to kill someone in a single second of attacking. If you can then that's great for you, but if that's the case you probably can still do very well without the cloak.
I do this already. That's why I bechmark them against ships of the same type. If you want me to do a comparison against every similar ship, well, I simply don't have time. Sorry.
The Fleet Corsair is better than the non-fleet version. But not by enough considering the higher price. Don't get me wrong, the Fleet Corsair is still great, but it's not as good a value as the non-fleet version. Note the title of this thread.
This article is the latter. If you wish to do one that is the former, go ahead. I do not have the time to do two sets of reviews.
If money is no object for you then please go to the Zen store and buy me 10,000 Zen. If you do that I will be happy to rewrite this review any way you like.
On the other hand, for those players who spend months grinding out the dilithium they need to make the Zen to buy a ship may want to know if what they are spending their dilithium is worth it. That is the entire purpose of this review.
It seems like you want a review of which ships are simply the most effective. That's not why I'm writing this, but I'll give you a hint: The ones that are more expensive are generally better.
Peet
I'm also seeking advice to see if this is in fact a combination of a display bug, should it prove that the data displayed when inspecting the ship is the 10% better in the published data.
My growing suspicion is that behind the scenes, it is in fact behaving as though it has the Fleet Somraw hull and shield multiplier. I hope I'm wrong, but I am most definitely NOT feeling 10% heartier in this ship. Even the DPS feels diminished.
Note: this is exclusively based on anecdotal evidence at this point, during Fleet missions. It is possible that either those have gotten tougher, or have changed in some way to make it more difficult, and this happened as I got into my Fleet Qin.
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http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=5103501#post5103501
Interesting point about the Qin, though it can be hard to judge it without a direct comparison. You should try doing PvP with a friend and have them do exactly the same thing while you use the two different ships.
Peet
You know ... I love my Fleet K'T'inga. Mine has done consistently well against fleetmates in PvP matches.
Love it. Love it. Love it.
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
Also, do you fly a Vor'Cha Retrofit? If so perhaps you can share the play differences in the two ships.
Peet
Give me a few days as I'm currently on vacation and outside of the game, but yeap ... I fly both on two different characters.
What I can say right now is that without looking at the stats, I have no problems with surviving in my K'T'inga and use the extra turn rate (which I boosted with an extra RCS console) to give me a raptor like turn rate for the cannons but love my taking abilities.
I can hang in the fight a bit longer than the average raptor / escort with guns consistently on my target.
But I'll see what I can find out for you in a few days.
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
These "deficiencies" are then compensated with the 10th console slot. So in my book, Fleet versions of the lowest Tier ships are very much comparable to regular good old "free" Tier 5 ships. Nothing less, nothing more.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!