test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Review: Tholian Orb Weaver
burstdragon323
Member Posts: 853 Arc User
So, just got one of these and took it for a go, gotta say I was impressed with it, but there were a few issues that I think need to be addressed.
Issue I: Ship Identity.
This vessel was advertised as a Science Vessel due to the Sensor Scan passive and the subsystem targeting, but the NPC ship is a cruiser. Due to this, Cryptic decided to mash them together and create a hybrid "sci-tank", that has science passives and bad turn.
Possible Solution:
Cut out the cruiser from the equation and increase its turn rate to 12.
Issue II: Thermeonic Torpedo
Now I will say this. This is a GREAT torpedo. But it lacks in a major area. DAMAGE. The base damage is around 2100, which is equivalent to a MK XI Transphasic torpedo, without any shield penetration. Without a damage buff, it is only really good in PvP.
Solution:
Increase the damage to something closer to a Photon Torpedo.
Issue III: Tholian Web Console
This console is GREAT. But since it is a barrier with some proton damage, it is nearly useless in many situations since the web nodes can be shot and destroyed. Also, if you deploy it against something very large like a Cube, it simply explodes.
Solution:
Add a proton turret to each web node that does a small amount of damage to increase its utility in situations, and make it to where if you use it against a large target, have the nodes remain and fire the aforementioned proton turrets.
Everything else about this ship is GREAT, and I feel that with these changes, the ship will be Greater.
Issue I: Ship Identity.
This vessel was advertised as a Science Vessel due to the Sensor Scan passive and the subsystem targeting, but the NPC ship is a cruiser. Due to this, Cryptic decided to mash them together and create a hybrid "sci-tank", that has science passives and bad turn.
Possible Solution:
Cut out the cruiser from the equation and increase its turn rate to 12.
Issue II: Thermeonic Torpedo
Now I will say this. This is a GREAT torpedo. But it lacks in a major area. DAMAGE. The base damage is around 2100, which is equivalent to a MK XI Transphasic torpedo, without any shield penetration. Without a damage buff, it is only really good in PvP.
Solution:
Increase the damage to something closer to a Photon Torpedo.
Issue III: Tholian Web Console
This console is GREAT. But since it is a barrier with some proton damage, it is nearly useless in many situations since the web nodes can be shot and destroyed. Also, if you deploy it against something very large like a Cube, it simply explodes.
Solution:
Add a proton turret to each web node that does a small amount of damage to increase its utility in situations, and make it to where if you use it against a large target, have the nodes remain and fire the aforementioned proton turrets.
Everything else about this ship is GREAT, and I feel that with these changes, the ship will be Greater.
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
As for the torpedo, it's not supposed to be balanced against a transphasic or photon. It's a debuffing torpedo, which means you compare it to a chroniton torp...and in that regard, I'd say it's much better than the chroniton. Instead of being easily resisted, it can drain a good amount of power from two different systems.
Web: no. Just, no. Every CC move in the game can easily be countered by multiple skills or is just generally worthless. So what you want is something better than a grav well, damage-wise.
It seems to me that you want to take an already OP ship and boost its special torp and console to a degree that there is no reason to fly any other ship than it. I'm sorry, but these suggestions are ridiculous, as the craft doesn't need any boosts; if anything deserves a boost in this game, it's the science side.
She's looking forward to get a Recluse to enhance the gameplay of those tholian ships even more.
Play it like a Sci, and you don't miss anything, and your teammates will thank you.
the nebula and tholian ship are basically the same ship. the only difference is the tholian has more crew. and that nifty web console.
Ook i will explain in detail my reasoning, my opinion of this ship is it is horrible.....not because it by itself is bad...but because sci powers are useless and boring....i wasted 6 respec tokens trying to make this ships work, i went from a damager torp boat with max particle acc, and every sci slot filled with mk xi purple particle gen consoles...results even with tac powers raging.....useless.....couldnt even kill a frigate in a timely fashion
For starters grav well's dps is absolutely horrible even fully buffed....then i switched(without respecing) into a feedback pulse machines....again useless...all it takes is a he1 running in the background and you are immune to any fbp....then i respecced (5$), tried a beam boat, vm build....yea vm is nice but if you can't kill the person in the 15 alotted seconds...it is useless........so i mixed it to psw and vm..again useless...unless psw crits it does laughable damage and while the disable is nice, unless you have the ability to capitalize on it, it is useless.
Then another respec, i switched my setup to max flow cap and all mk xi flow caps in my sci slots and the doffs to spawn tykens twins, i ran 2 instances of tykens rift and 2 instance of disable shield systems and made it a torp boat...the concept was hit them with tykens rift then disable shields and torp them to death......again...epic fail...i lowered shields MAYBE 1 time out of 20 in stfs and pretty much never in pvp...again all these test are with 125 aux and all offense tac buffs running....all sensor abilities at best are only annoying as a matter of fact the only good sci powers are the defensive 1's.....and ya...they will keep you alive long enough to face plant from boredom.
I put my tac in a defiant and she can kill in literally 3 seconds.....i use my engi and his marauder is certainly not lacking in any way....he can kill in a timely fashion NP.....however sci in sci ships is absolutely boring..and pointless...ALL offensive sci abilities suck horrifically as a matter of fact the only true option for a sci officer is a tac ship and just subnuke everyone to death.
These are my reasons and im sure there will be plenty of trolls to argue this, but i ran these tests in the company of others and my results are solid....and also, while the web is a pretty graphic it is useless, all they have to do is shoot it and it done...its erect for 20 seconds b4 it collapses and no ability can keep them in it that long....FAIL...just my honest and true opinion and results
Really? Have you been paying attention? I mean, really?
My first character was Tac in Tac Cruisers.
My second character was Sci in Sci vessels, until finally a Sci Ody
Sci ROCKS. My "useless and boring" sci powers mean that my Sci Ody is always the last ship left alive, providing healing to myself and others, slowing and debuffing enemies, while buffing friends... while still doing just about the same damage as the Tac versions of the same ship.
Personally, I think the best combo is a Sci captain in a Tac ship, until you get to endgame (but that's just my opinion).
Same...
I would love some of whatever the heck you're smoking.
Power Drain builds are basically dead in PVP, and Shield Drain builds aren't particularly effective in endgame PVE, but that doesn't mean SciShips are weak. Sci Powers are NOT a replacement for good DPS + high weapons power, but a supplement to it.
That said, Gravwell is perfectly fine as an additional damage source (assuming you're talking about using GW3 at reasonably high Aux) you just need to stop ships from moving first so that they sit dead in the centre (not needed for killing static targets like structures, or for using GW as a CC ability or Torpedo Spread anchor). Ditto for PSW3, except that you don't need the high Aux, just Particle Gen Skill + Equipment.
Oh, look. Another tac captain who doesn't understand how science works. let's all point and laugh at him.
Seriously though, we all know science dps sucks. When you tac's got a simplified tree and buffs to escorts, science vessels/powers only got nerfs. So yes, your defiant will be unopposed by a tractor beam or gravity well due to several skills/items that render CC useless in PvP. And yes, only tacs can actually utilize several science skills to deal damage whilst still keeping a sufficient amount of CC (at least for PvE). But just because science is borked to high hell whilst tac/escorts get to run amok doesn't mean that this ship isn't horrendously imbalanced.
It took the Nebula's good tanking/CC and took some steroids; now it has even better tanking, CC, dps, and console utility. There is literally nothing that the Nebula can do that the Weaver can't do better (except, perhaps, be a jack-of-all-trades, but even that is suspect). If you want to complain about science vessels/powers being horrible, get in line, but don't infer that this ship is terrible just because you don't know how to fly a science vessel.
let me start off by saying, you know nothing about me....you are 100000 miles past clueless and enroute to embarassing yourself....truth is i flew nothing BUT sci vessels most of my STO experiance...do i know how to fly them...yes i do....do i think they suck...yes i do....fact is i tried my hardest to like sci, as i am a voyager fan....but it is a useless ship class...it shouldn't even be in the game...it does not have the ability to kill the others do and it is boring to fly because of such reasons (to me)....if your idea of fun is running around healing ppl whilts having tickles wars with your enemy...you have the right class of ship...if you want to kill....pls pick ANYTHING else...i remember when sci was useful, now its just TRIBBLE...the hordes of crybabies have nerfs it into boringness.....if i can kill in 3 seconds on my escort sci should have abilities that can do the same or similar....every time i fly sci i literally pass out at the keyboard....im not exaggerating in the slightest...aside from pretty graphics it is useless, the only sci based ships worth flying are the carriers because they have fighter to supplement dps....i fought a sci in my engi the other day 1 v 1...1 who swore he could toast anyone in his luna...i load up my engi on his marauder and let him have it....he throughly annoyed me for a half hour b4 i ultimately killed him..... and he never once dropped a shield or even had my hull below 98%.....TRANSLATION....U.S.E.L.E.S.S.
When you keep writing... in one long... incredibly unbroken sentence... moving from topic to topic... with unecessary ellipses everywhere... it's really hard to take your opinions seriously. If you can't master a very simple thing, such as how to present your thoughts clearly, it's reasonable to suspect that you're also bad at more difficult things, like playing video games.
Sadly, I COULD make that perfect enough for any English Major, BUT I don't think you would be smart enough to understand it anyway....your the kind of person who is responsible for this game being geared towards the lowest common denominator.
OH GAWD, PLZ DEVS (QQ), MY TRIBBLE BUILD CAN'T HANDLE *power A* PLZ NERF IT SO I DON'T HAVE TO RESPECT MY CHIITY BUILD
and cryptics reply: sure why not, we are only making the escorts even scarier while the whole time nerfing everything else...besides stupid people pay good money too *LOL*
when their reply should have been: I'm sorry..is the game too hard for you? I hear WOW is dumbed down for 10 years old with pride issues....maybe you should look there.... Star trek has bean and always will be SUPPORTED BY INTELLIGENT ADULTS.....to dumb down a game to make it playable by the intellectually challenged is just WRONG....like i said...there is WOW, who's player base is steadily dwindling away because its TOO easy and boring...made for 10 year olds.....
*you're the kind of person
CLASSIC 10 YEAR OLD's REPLY.....so whats next?! I'm rubber your glue?
this is entertaining pls DO TELL.....
dark, you're not saying anything I didn't address: that science has been nerfed to high hell in relation to tac and engi, even with ships. Having said that, such a nerf doesn't mean that the weaver is inherently worse than the other science ships; actually, its console/torp/station setup allows it to be a very good tank, good balanced ship, or an incredible CC vessel. Thus, the weaver is indeed a good (and, imbalanced relatively speaking) vessel...it's just going to still be a bit lackluster in relation to other tank/dps roles. That's all I meant, and you haven't exactly disproven my point.
Weaver: Good.
Science: Nerfed.
I think we can all come to an agreement on this. :P
I'll pass on that one, I think I've proven my initial point.
i cannot argue that...my only real argument is sci power suck and blow simultaneously.
Because of that sci captains and sci ships aren't as appealing as other careers/ships, i think the ship looks awesome and the bridge is OMG...total PIMP....but as for offensive sci powers....cryptic dropped the ball in favor of crybaby *******....quite disappointing
Brandon, please lock this. It's obviously become a Flame War.
And if nothing else, then at least there's Starbase Blockade, where heals and snares are much more potent than dps (finally I might add).
It's not that you MUST use proper spelling or punctuation marks...it's just that, when you're trying to convince someone else, it helps your cause if they can read your posts without getting a headache.
Orb Compared to a Fleet Nebula
hull 30,000 vs 34,650
crew 1200 vs 750
turn 9 vs 9
SM 1.4 vs 1.43
3/3/4 console setup for orb (tac/engi/sci) 2/4/4 for nebula
http://www.stowiki.org/Fleet_Advanced_Research_Vessel_Retrofit
then things like the Fleet Reconnaissance Science Vessel etc etc.
http://www.stowiki.org/Fleet_Reconnaissance_Science_Vessel
with the Jem'hadar/galor/d'kora, they all stack up quite well to their fleet counter parts. The orb not as much as them.
And I'd argue those stats make it a better hybrid vessel than the Nebula. 3/3/4 is what a workhorse/jack-of-all-trades vessel should get for its consoles, especially for one with high-level universal stations. Giving the Nebula 2/4/4 without bumping up its hull even more, or upping its universal station level only serves to ham-fist it into a tanking role that the DSSV is already good at. Speaking of tanking...
The Weaver can run two Lt. Comm Engi stations, making it the best CC/tanker in the game. You can run twin EP2S III with two gravity wells! And if you don't feel like running two instances of EP2S III, you can drop those down a level to utilize Aceton Beam *and* Extend Shields. Simply put the tact station as tac team, and you really don't have to worry about shielding, given the proper doff setup.
Oh, but if you go full-on tank, then we can't deal damage! Fear not, simply switch the universal to a Lt. Comm Tac station, and now you have the same amount of abilities (and a higher power, at that) as the Recon...but with more hull and tanking abilities at the cost of turn rate. And honestly, an RCS console, plus skills, turns even a 9 turn rate into something respectable. My point is that they have nullified one of the key aspects of a cannon Star Trek ship (the Nebula), a new fleet ship's unique perk (Nova's Lt. Comm Tac station), and another fleet ship's specialization to tank/CC (Luna/Hope).
That's my issue with the Weaver. Not that it is a bad ship, but that it can potentially do a better job, if specialized or not, than most of the science vessels in the Federation line-up. And this is without touching the issue of its console and special torpedo, at that. Point being, I fear this simply sets us all up for a deluge of lockbox and CStore ships that create an atmosphere of pay to win, all because the devs will continue to produce ships with ridiculous stats while keeping or nerfing current ones.
This ship is an absolute beast, and declaring that a small decrease in absolute stats compared to the Nebula means that the Weaver isn't better is disingenuous to this problem. Also, it's bad to mention the bug ship as being "balanced." The sucker can tank like a cruiser, if setup properly, and deal more damage.
i'm a cruiser guy deep down and always want hull, but the tholian holds it's own if equipped properly.