This Game Has Become One Endless Grind!

levi3 · July 2012

With S6 now here I am more aware than ever that this game is just a never-ending grind

after 1900 hrs of play and over $400 I am getting very tired - when do you know it's time to throw in the towel?

Grind for dilth
Grind for EC
Grind for Fleet marks
Grind for Fleet credits
Grind for EDC's
Grind for XP
Grind for CXP

Am I missing something? What is the big insentive to stay and keep plowing time and money here?? Let me know if there is something else to do other than grinding and the same old stuff?

uxvorastrix · July 2012

As all MMOs eventually do (some sooner than others).

sovereignman · July 2012

That blew my mind, I mean Cryptic was supposed to be the first one to break the MMO paradigm, amirite?

thecosmic1 · July 2012

You might not enjoy the grind at the moment but don't fool yourself into believing that the grind is not common in MMOs. The end-game for virtually all MMOs is about grinding - almost always in multi-person raids to get purple gear of some sort. That's just the way it is at level cap: there's nothing to do but kill things to get better gear, more money, etc.

callaway97771 · July 2012

I used to have a college professor give us 4-5 chapter reading assignments for the weekend. And then someone would complain. And then he would reply "It's only a lot of reading if you do it."

Same principle applies here.

levi3 · July 2012

Well taking a detailed look at the requirements to get to a Tier 5 starbase I know 2 things for sure

1) There won't be any fleet done in 7 months

2) I don't expect more than 20 fleets will ever make it to T5 (more like 10)

the push to milk people for money is reaching epic proportions compared with the content provided

If some major content with deep development is not released for S7 this starbase experience will be the end for many players of the game

claransa · July 2012

Welcome to MMOs, end game is always a grind. At least STO makes it more diversified than others.

thecosmic1 · July 2012

levi3 wrote: »

Well taking a detailed look at the requirements to get to a Tier 5 starbase I know 2 things for sure

1) There won't be any fleet done in 7 months

2) I don't expect more than 20 fleets will ever make it to T5 (more like 10)

the push to milk people for money is reaching epic proportions compared with the content provided

If some major content with deep development is not released for S7 this starbase experience will be the end for many players of the game

What milking for money? I haven't purchased a CP in over 6 months and currently have almost 15,000 Zen. I've dumped 250,000 Dilithium into the base just yesterday and don't even miss it.

The simple truth of the matter is you're bored with the game. It happens. But the fact that you're bored with it doesn't mean everyone is. There are thousands of people who love DOFFs and play that every day. It bores the TRIBBLE out of me and I can't do it for 5 minutes. Just because I don't like it doesn't mean DOFFs are the death of STO.

You're bored and frustrated. Take a break. There's several hundreds other games out there to play. Sometimes it's just time for an individual to move on - but that doesn't mean just because you don't like something that there aren't thousands of others out there who do.

claransa · July 2012

thecosmic1 wrote: »

What milking for money? I haven't purchased a CP in over 6 months and currently have almost 15,000 Zen. I've dumped 250,000 Dilithium into the base just yesterday and don't even miss it.

The simple truth of the matter is you're bored with the game. It happens. But the fact that you're bored with it doesn't mean everyone is. There are thousands of people who love DOFFs and play that every day. It bores the TRIBBLE out of me and I can't do it for 5 minutes. Just because I don't like it doesn't mean DOFFs are the death of STO.

You're bored and frustrated. Take a break. There's several hundreds other games out there to play. Sometimes it's just time for an individual to move on - but that doesn't mean just because you don't like something that there aren't thousands of others out there who do.

Three MMOs under my belt, STO being my third, i'm just waiting for the foundry to make its return. First time encountering community authored content, and frankly its what will keep me playing STO.

jkstocbr · July 2012

Having played since launch, I have at agree that things have gone down hill with resource grind. The best thing about STO was always the minimal grind and you could accomplish everything. There was a lot of criticism that the game s was too easy though and there was separation of the "men from the boys".

Ever since dilithium was introduced, and F2P business strategics took hold, it's turned for the worse. At least we are not grinding XP, which is now much easier since launch thanks to the Doff system, rested XP and Skill Boosts.

mavgeekrsa · July 2012

sovereignman wrote: »

That blew my mind, I mean Cryptic was supposed to be the first one to break the MMO paradigm, amirite?

Originally, that might have been the case.

However, the grind is not surprising in the least. Last year at this time, how many of us tried to tell the community, this would happen when an Asian based mmorpg developer like PWE purchases Cryptic?

We warned you. We tried in lord knows how many forum debates, tweets, various different podcasts, the community had ample warning this was what was coming down the road. The Asian design for mmorpg's is to set a long grind, designed to keep you playing because if you got instant gratification you would play a lot less. And since you'd play a lot less there is a much higher chance you'd never spent real world money on the game whether or not it's via a subscription or various microtransaction purchases.

We knew this would happen.

robertcrayven · July 2012

mavgeekrsa wrote: »

Originally, that might have been the case.

However, the grind is not surprising in the least. Last year at this time, how many of us tried to tell the community, this would happen when an Asian based mmorpg developer like PWE purchases Cryptic?

We warned you. We tried in lord knows how many forum debates, tweets, various different podcasts, the community had ample warning this was what was coming down the road. The Asian design for mmorpg's is to set a long grind, designed to keep you playing because if you got instant gratification you would play a lot less. And since you'd play a lot less there is a much higher chance you'd never spent real world money on the game whether or not it's via a subscription or various microtransaction purchases.

We knew this would happen.

Mav is correct.

azurianstar · July 2012

mavgeekrsa wrote: »

Originally, that might have been the case.

However, the grind is not surprising in the least. Last year at this time, how many of us tried to tell the community, this would happen when an Asian based mmorpg developer like PWE purchases Cryptic?

We warned you. We tried in lord knows how many forum debates, tweets, various different podcasts, the community had ample warning this was what was coming down the road. The Asian design for mmorpg's is to set a long grind, designed to keep you playing because if you got instant gratification you would play a lot less. And since you'd play a lot less there is a much higher chance you'd never spent real world money on the game whether or not it's via a subscription or various microtransaction purchases.

We knew this would happen.

Yeah, we were warned and was crossing our fingers that it it wouldn't. But given what we faced before PW buying Cryptic, makes me wonder if this was going to happen anyhow. Because really the pattern hasn't changed at all. Up til F2P and til now, the only thing was to do was the STFs.

Right now, I'm honestly unable to find any free time to do the things I want in STO. As soon as I log on, I gotta do my DOFF Dailies (which is partly for my DL intake), then I still got grind away on the STFS (not only for the accolade, but continuing my futile quest to get 11 more MK12 sets for my 6 characters). And NOW, I have to grind away for Marks and new Event Accolades and grind at Nukara for 2 hours for marks for projects for my Fleet's Starbase.

This grind is seriously overloading me beyond belief and actually causing me major stress in the real world. It's affecting me so much that I have no choice but to stop my Fleet's Starbase construction at Tier 1. And when a game does this to you, thats saying something.

dalnar83 · July 2012

It was always just grind. MMOs = grind = carrot on stick. No company ever came with something better.

azurianstar · July 2012

dalnar83 wrote: »

It was always just grind. MMOs = grind = carrot on stick. No company ever came with something better.

True.

But if you think about it, the grind always led somewhere. For instance in Everequest, the grind was built into the leveling (which made getting a new level something to celebrate, back in the day). By the time you were done leveling, you had a couple of months to work on the end-game dungeon and learning to beat the boss, then farm the goods til the next expansion. While that was going on, that MMO's developers were busy making the next expansion and continuing the cycle.

With STO, its grinding for the sake of the next grind.

dalnar83 · July 2012

Well, at least you can level up in a weekend doing only patrol missions. But you are right, the current grind is a little dumb just for the sake of grinding.

But I understand why the leveling is so quick. New players are much more eager to buy stuff from Z-Store then.

azurianstar · July 2012

dalnar83 wrote: »

But I understand why the leveling is so quick. New players are much more eager to buy stuff from Z-Store then.

But you would think that slower leveling would encourage players to buy the Z-ships. Because they way is now, you don't really have time to spend with those new ships and basically feel like your investment isn't there. (Outside of spending money for consoles).

dalnar83 · July 2012

Ye, T2 ships, well that's like 6-7hours. In case of Exeter refit, it must be the worst purchase in STO atm. Lovely skin you can have only in T2 with useless console.

mavgeekrsa · July 2012

dalnar83 wrote: »

It was always just grind. MMOs = grind = carrot on stick. No company ever came with something better.

This is so wrong, in many ways.

While a lot of mmorpg's are a grind as you say, many companies have come up with better. I can name three off the top of my head, Ultima Online, Shadowbane and Darkfall Online. What do those three have in common? They were heavily pvp oriented. And while yes there may be some "grind" to reach the max level and obtain items, the end game in them was not a constant grind like some mmorpg's provided, it was the pvp aspect.

I'll agree "a lot" of companies do make their mmorpg grind focused to earn a profit, I can't say all because history has shown us many other methods of mmo design that have worked.

dalnar83 · July 2012

Yes, "some" MMOs" have less grind, but the overall concept is still the same "grind". You just grind different things

diogene0 · July 2012

azurianstar wrote: »

Right now, I'm honestly unable to find any free time to do the things I want in STO. As soon as I log on, I gotta do my DOFF Dailies (which is partly for my DL intake), then I still got grind away on the STFS (not only for the accolade, but continuing my futile quest to get 11 more MK12 sets for my 6 characters). And NOW, I have to grind away for Marks and new Event Accolades and grind at Nukara for 2 hours for marks for projects for my Fleet's Starbase.

This grind is seriously overloading me beyond belief and actually causing me major stress in the real world. It's affecting me so much that I have no choice but to stop my Fleet's Starbase construction at Tier 1. And when a game does this to you, thats saying something.

I seriously don't understand why you are complaining about the 'grind'. If you don't want to do that, then don't do it. Go play some regular missions instead, have fun doing RP in Drozana, do whatever you want to do, but no one will ever force you to join a fleet, grind for marks or whatever.

Every game is a sandbox, you can do what you want to do with it, but if you want to get the endgame top gear, yes, you have to grind. But who cares? You don't need that gear to play PvE, foundry missions, and most of the time, pvp.

palpha2clearance · July 2012

levi3 wrote: »

With S6 now here I am more aware than ever that this game is just a never-ending grind

after 1900 hrs of play and over $400 I am getting very tired - when do you know it's time to throw in the towel?

Grind for dilth
Grind for EC
Grind for Fleet marks
Grind for Fleet credits
Grind for EDC's
Grind for XP
Grind for CXP

Am I missing something? What is the big insentive to stay and keep plowing time and money here?? Let me know if there is something else to do other than grinding and the same old stuff?

Welcome to Star Grind Online

thedoctorbluebox · July 2012

jkstocbr wrote: »

Having played since launch, I have at agree that things have gone down hill with resource grind. The best thing about STO was always the minimal grind and you could accomplish everything. There was a lot of criticism that the game s was too easy though and there was separation of the "men from the boys".

Ever since dilithium was introduced, and F2P business strategics took hold, it's turned for the worse. At least we are not grinding XP, which is now much easier since launch thanks to the Doff system, rested XP and Skill Boosts.

Agreed, I miss the old days when you could play through a whole STF and then get the borg gear as the reward for finishing it, no grinding needed. I miss end-game STF mission rewards from completing the mission once.

They should have just added new STFs if they wanted to introduce new gear like Omega and Maco and not have them be a grind, but let them be end-mission rewards.

That's the STO I use to know.

darkenzedd · July 2012

Funnily enough, grinding makes me want to play less rather than more often.

I did the stf grind, never completed a single MK12 set and have multiple techs for MK11 & MK10 sets.
Had cryptic done the right thing and allowed me to pass those items onto my other toons via boa, id have more toons with that gear...

I got bored and no longer run them save for a couple of times a week, maybe....

The same will happen with the fleet system, as I am already getting bored of grinding out the same few missions.

If and when the foundry comes back up and the featured missions arrive with actual rewards, I will not longer partake in those grinds. I will spend my time doing 1 - 2 foundry missions of an evening that are 1000% times better than anything cryptic have done...

thedoctorbluebox · July 2012

Grinding doesn't make me want to continue to play either, especially once you actually have all the gear and the stuff grinding gets you, what's the point. I have 200 unspent EDCs on one character because I have nothing left to buy with them, got all the gear, got all the purple borgs. Content is what makes or break a game, and makes people want to continue playing, we need new stories and missions to play.

philo5oraptor · July 2012

sovereignman wrote: »

That blew my mind, I mean Cryptic was supposed to be the first one to break the MMO paradigm, amirite?

You must be joking.

thecosmic1 · July 2012

thedoctorbluebox wrote: »

Grinding doesn't make me want to continue to play either, especially once you actually have all the gear and the stuff grinding gets you, what's the point. I have 200 unspent EDCs on one character because I have nothing left to buy with them, got all the gear, got all the purple borgs. Content is what makes or break a game, and makes people want to continue playing, we need new stories and missions to play.

I think this statement is the real issue. Most people don't care about the grind. They care about the lack of variety in the end-game grind. Every MMO requires us to grind from level 1 to end-game accumulating XP, money, Crafting goods, gear, etc - but you're doing it through missions/stories that seem different and so it's OK. I think people have just grown tired of the lack of end-game grind mission variety and so attribute it to a dislike of "grinding." It happens in most games. If you go to many gaming forums and you'll see the same complaints about end-game grinding: AKA, lack of mission variety as people are tired of doing the same raids over and over.

dublinraider · July 2012

Don't do the Grind.
Its really that simple.
You don't need all the fancy TRIBBLE for PvE.
The entire idea that u must have the latest set of goodies is a mirage.

levi3 · July 2012

Is it just me or are people getting sick of S6 already?

I took a look at some of the detailed stuff required in Tier 2 starbase as I am having those assignments pop up now that tier 1 is done

Wholly cow - all I can say is a LOT of starbases are going to whither and die at tier 1/2

darkjeff · July 2012

claransa wrote: »

Three MMOs under my belt, STO being my third, i'm just waiting for the foundry to make its return. First time encountering community authored content, and frankly its what will keep me playing STO.

While I know the Nagus dailies are just supposed to be throw-away missions to get our daily dilithium, I really miss being able to quickly test my build in a short encounter against a few ships.

boglejam73 · July 2012

philo5oraptor wrote: »

You must be joking.

I think he was joking. Text-based sarcasm is usually lost on anyone other than whoever wrote it.

As for this thread, I see a lot of "I have to grind X..." or variations on that theme. Did Cryptic sneak in and remove the "Exit" button from the game? If you aren't having fun, then don't do the grind. If enough people quit doing it (and buying things assocaited with the grind) then Cryptic would have to do something else to get you to come back, play and spend money, right?

This Game Has Become One Endless Grind!

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