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Ideas for fair loot system
marc8219
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Still had more thoughts on how the loot system could be fair that I wanted to post before the other threads were closed so I will post them here and hope the flamers don't get this closed too.
Proposal 1-
let the team loot settings match the majority of the players in the groups loot settings set in the social window. For example mine is usually set to "Need or Greed, Very rare" or "free for all", if 3 group members have setting like this, this is how the groups loot settings should be, even when in a pug STF or Fleet action.
Proposal 2- I don't like this idea quite as much as my first, but it may be easier to implement and still is fairer then the current system. Simply change the default need or greed threshold in PUGs to very rare, or even rare. Or just put the default settings on free for all.
Proposal 3- This is probably even harder to implement, but what if the game would try to scale loot rolls based on performance in the group. Besides damage, it would have to take into account the amount of heals done on group members and how many sci skills have hit the enemy to be fair, may be hard to decide how much healing or using sci skills are worth compared to DPS though.
As it is right now all to often I see the player that is in a a cruiser barely doing any damage and only healing himself is always needing everything and getting way more stuff then they deserve, so I think the current system should be scrapped and probaly any new system would be better.
Proposal 1-
let the team loot settings match the majority of the players in the groups loot settings set in the social window. For example mine is usually set to "Need or Greed, Very rare" or "free for all", if 3 group members have setting like this, this is how the groups loot settings should be, even when in a pug STF or Fleet action.
Proposal 2- I don't like this idea quite as much as my first, but it may be easier to implement and still is fairer then the current system. Simply change the default need or greed threshold in PUGs to very rare, or even rare. Or just put the default settings on free for all.
Proposal 3- This is probably even harder to implement, but what if the game would try to scale loot rolls based on performance in the group. Besides damage, it would have to take into account the amount of heals done on group members and how many sci skills have hit the enemy to be fair, may be hard to decide how much healing or using sci skills are worth compared to DPS though.
As it is right now all to often I see the player that is in a a cruiser barely doing any damage and only healing himself is always needing everything and getting way more stuff then they deserve, so I think the current system should be scrapped and probaly any new system would be better.
Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions
Post edited by marc8219 on
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Comments
Opening a lockbox is like using a public restroom when u gotta poo.
You are just hoping nobody blew on the seat or that all the toilet paper is gone.
Free for All is a bad idea, because the second a loot drops everyone is going to run at it like a moth to a lightbulb. people will spend more time rushing the loot drop trying to get it first than focusing on the fight (even though the loot is common grade)
Saris had a good point about writing a new system: i believe the same would also go for checking how much teamwork was used, and so on.
It's a lot more work on the devs part to code a system like that, they they could just change the default of the instance to another type that is already written into the game.
I was in a run a few months ago, there was a full Galaxy X in there he didn't move from the spwan. did no damage, no healing, and started "needing" on everything.
I coordinated the team into pulling a cube back to him so he would be in weapon range.
he turned his ship around and ran further away just so he wouldn't have to do any work.
Needless to say he was added to my ignore list that day.
But yes, i agree with the point you listed there marc.
5,000+ Hours in STO? Yes, Yes i do.
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Fleet Leader of "Icarus Factor" - The official fleet of Pothole Studios.
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Yeah he did seem to quick to close threads rather then just warn people or temp ban people.
This would change quick once word got out
Maybe FFA might not work, but just upping need or greed threshold to rare couldn't cause too much trouble.
yeah probly too much to ask for immediatley as would take a lot of work, but it could be a long term solution.
Id probably check with the group to see if they all wanted to go afk for awhile until that guy quits or if enough time passed by to not get penalty just ask the rest of the group to quit and then leave myself. Don't want to help useless people like that get STF loot by completing it with him there.
Yeah, going to rare is a good thing, OR if anything, dropping lockboxes to "common" would also be a good thing. that way you atleast don't get the pointless UI asking you to roll on lockboxes.
Agreed.
Aye, i will keep that in mind next time I'm in a group with a loot camper.
5,000+ Hours in STO? Yes, Yes i do.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Fleet Leader of "Icarus Factor" - The official fleet of Pothole Studios.
STO Guides for your Android? Yes. Yes we do. STO Guides - Google Play.
if I make a private room I usually say need on all.
If I join a pug I just click need on all.
Why? Those Need/Greed rules just wait for a ninja looter. If I am in the tick of fighting I do not have time to check how everyone choose their loot option.
All hitting Need or Pass all the time reduces the chance that some ninja looter will get all the loot while he does nothing to earn that loot.
If you do not want the loot you just ignore it until timer runs out.
P.S. As you might have guess I did fall victims a number of time to ninja looters.
5,000+ Hours in STO? Yes, Yes i do.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Fleet Leader of "Icarus Factor" - The official fleet of Pothole Studios.
STO Guides for your Android? Yes. Yes we do. STO Guides - Google Play.
A) The simple one
Change default Team settings across the board to Round Robin, Very Rare threshold so that everything gets automatically distributed via Round Robin.
Randomly assigned loot with no rolling or popups.
If people don't have auto loot setting enabled, let them pass loot opening it up for others to pick up. Otherwise all loot is automatically assigned by the Game. No loot TRIBBLE, no loot ninjaing, no bickering, no drama, no greed ect.
Team settings are overwritten by the "AutoTeam" default settings, you cannot alter them.
I propose everyone gets 1 need per match and thereafter greed or pass.
Or if a person needs more than once the chance of getting the item decreases with every time the need button is pressed, for example if two people hit need the person who hit need once will have a higher chance of getting the item than someone who has hit need a number times, it may encourage players to use the greed button.
The other idea I had was that there should be a check that if someone pushes need and already have gear that has better stats than what is needed upon, then the system should auto allocate that as a greed instead.
Oh, i thought when he said "if I make a private room" he meant a Custom one that he made, not an auto-teamed one.
5,000+ Hours in STO? Yes, Yes i do.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Fleet Leader of "Icarus Factor" - The official fleet of Pothole Studios.
STO Guides for your Android? Yes. Yes we do. STO Guides - Google Play.
Have the game track over the course of a month how many times you needed, versus how many times you greeded/passed, in STF 5-man groups or otherwise, and if your Need/Else ratio exceeds say 20 percent, you start incurring a penalty on your need rolls scaling relative to how far you've gone over. This way, you may have your deflector/shield/engine vendor trash, but once the Prototype Salvage comes along and you roll against people who didn't incur the same penalty, you've got worse than 1/5 odds.
Ideally this'd only work in STFs and other 5-man instances, as doing elite starcluster missions with one or two fleetmates might otherwise seriously skew your statistics.
Anyway, after thirty days, the system takes your Need/Else totals, multiplies by 29/30, and continuous tracking. This way, after a month of good behavior, you can completely shake any penalty the system may have been imposing on you, and no ninja is ever irredeemable.
2. Roll-assist
A bit simpler. Create a pool of say 50 bonus points. When you need, the system performs your normal need roll, getting X, and it does a second bonus roll, getting Y. You add up X and Y to get Z, the actual result that gets compared to the rest of your teammates, and you subtract Y from the bonus pool. This means the bonus pool gets smaller and will be less effective on your second roll.
Roll 1: rand(100) + rand(50) = 71 + 31 = Ensign Joe rolled Need(102) for Ultraviolet Fuzzy Slippers Mk XII
Roll 2: rand(100) + rand(19) = etc...
This can be done within the confines of a single match, and reset for the next instance. Even if you need every single thing in the match, you needn't necessarily hit 0 on the bonus pool, since it's always a fraction of itself and you can roll low, but if the others don't, by the time the optional drops, you've shot yourself in the foot nonetheless. Now I can still roll a 2 and lose to you, but it's not quite as likely anymore.
My concern with 2 though, is the Z-store. I can see it leaving an opening for PWE to push through a consumable that further modifies roll results, like the ones for skillpoints, fleet marks and commendation xp.
Unfortunately that is still the case, custom setup teams with KDF and FED on them count as "Auto Teamed" during STFs and you cannot alter the settings, nor affect them prior to team formation. They are overwritten by some default Need & Greed - Common threshold setting in the engine.
5,000+ Hours in STO? Yes, Yes i do.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Fleet Leader of "Icarus Factor" - The official fleet of Pothole Studios.
STO Guides for your Android? Yes. Yes we do. STO Guides - Google Play.
This seems very doable and a good idea
A little harder to implement but also could work
This idea seems like it would be very hard to for the devs.
Nice ideas, but might strain the server having to keep track of it all. I like idea 2 better myself.
I like some of the other ideas a little better but this seems easier to do and is more fair then the current system
In retrospect, I don't think a timestamp is even necessary for number 1. We're dealing with ratios, so it's not necessary to build up 30 days worth of results before the system starts subtracting. And my estimate, picking 20% as number of needs permitted, is probably a bit low. That might need to be 30% or more. As for strain, I don't think that'd be a terribly great issue. It's just a simple +1 to need, +1 to else throughout the day, with no appreciable numbers being crunched until server-midnight (when your dilithium refining resets). Basically, it's just accolade tracking. And it does that all the time.
Still, yeah, my trust issues aside, option 2 is probably easier, and maybe better. Just don't say I didn't warn you when they start selling consumable Rules of Acquisition audiobooks on the Z- or Lobi store that boost your roll results. (I'd be totally cool with Ferengi getting a natural +5 to greed rolls, though. Some people might not be, but I think it'd fit them.)