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How to defeat the romulan batteships
gunnythegunfreak
Member Posts: 10 Arc User
Now they wouldn't a problem except for the one attack, they grap you with tractor beam and smap plasma tropedoes, even if I have 100% hull and 100% shields, it will defeat me, and blow me up on a singel attack, my only way out is to use avesive manouvre and get as far away from the tropedoes as possible, but it seems to recharge this super attack faster then I can recharge my avesive maouvre
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Tractor repulsers, Eject Warp Plasma, Fire at Will, Cannon Spread Volley, Torpedo Spread
Getting out of a tractor beam:
Polarize Hull, Attack Pattern Omega, and I think Jam Targeting Sensors is supposed to help with that too.
There are several strategies to avoid your problem:
use brace for impact to improve your resistance to one or more heavy torpedoes
use attack pattern omega or polarike hull to escape from tractor beam (APO is the best choose)
AOE attacks (cannon scatter volley, beam fire at will, torpedo spread and also tractor beam repulsor) are very usefull also to destroy one ore more heavy torpedoes, a boarding party.... this kind of attacks are a must in the new missions
.
if none of those options are avaible, then evasive manouvres can help (except for tractor beam).
however check your build... often some changes make the difference.
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
You can also do the suicide run and get close enough that they'll be caught in the blast radius. But I think the best option is to simply stay at a distance and save the skills for when youre in trouble.
Spoiler: The game likes the have boss level ones decloak on top of you and hit you with the tractorbomb immediately upon closing the dialog window. Just save your buffs for when you limp back from the respawn point.
1. Keeping them grouped up to maxamise AoE DPS is kind of vital, so randomly scattering them to the winds is not good.
2. I get sick of people TBR'ing ships out of my grave wells. I've actually seen ths cost us a good chunk of a facillity in phase 3 of defence becuase they got shoved right upto the facility and by the time i repositioned they'd done a lot of damage.
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
But i'm not talking about people doing that.
i'm talking the people who hit it evry CD, or use it soley as a defence against high yeild torps and Boarding shuttles.
They're not achiving anything useful in game terms, and by scattering them all over the place, (and often shoving them out of range of my weapons), drasticlly reducing our ability to burn them down.
I like the PDS for Heavy Plasma Torps.
People seem to have it in their heads that TBR is cruise control for cool these days.
Good advice and I would add that using 3 blue or purple Shield Distro Doffs can utilize BFI as a regular shield charger, small, but effective.
Join the 44th Fleet. [FED and KDF] Apply Online: startrek.44thfleet.com
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Fire at will, Check.
Tractor Beam Repulsors, Check
Brace for Impact, Check
Dead Federation Ship, Check :mad:
Skipped Missions, Check
TONE DOWN THE HEAVY PLASMA TORPEDOES. They are currently game breaking.
They most certainly are not! Tricky to defeat? Yes. Likely to kill you a few times before defeated? Yes. Game breaking or unbeatable? Not by a long shot.
Mines: Not the optimal solution as they have to be deployed BEFORE combat.
Fire at Will: The higher the rank and the more beams you have, the more likely you are to kill the torpedoes - but it isn't foolproof.
Tractor Beam Repulsors: The D'Deridex WILL use Photonic Shockwave and Viral Matrix, both of which are a threat to this ability. Careful timing is of the essence to either catch all three torpedoes or fire AFTER the blast.
Brace for Impact: You still need a few other buffs if you want to stand a chance.
Dead Federation Ship
Skipped Missions :rolleyes:: Very bad idea.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Nothing else in episode play is this dangerous. The romulan arc really is broken. Unless your running one seriously nasty tank build you have to kil the torps or die, and the warbird has way too many ways of preventing that right now. If the torps did less damage or the warbird had fewer ways of preventing you stopping them it would be more ok.
It's especially brutal to low level, (i.e. on level), escorts as they don't have a lot in their options for this thing. Most of the anwsers aren't really applicciable to an escort or requir giving up other things. I actually picked up the phaser PD consle JUST for this set of missions and stil only bothered to complete them once.
They're simply an order of magnitude more difficult and several orders of magnitude more aggrevating than any other episode set.
Excuse me, but since when is a good Torpedo Spread not applicable to an escort? I think any good escort captain of that rank has a TS1, or more likely even a TS2. TS1 will destroy two out of three torpedoes (must target torpedo first or the torpedo count will go down by 1), TS2 will destroy all three torpedoes. Piece of cake! Oh, and you can get TS3 too, if I'm not mistaken! (So what if it's hard to get? Ask a friend to train your officer in it using a Jem'Hadar!)
For other classes: Cruisers will likely want to run a Torpedo Spread, Tractor Beam Repulsors, or both. Also supplement with Engineering Team to clear the Viral Matrix on any ship. Eject Warp Plasma is also an option, but has a larger chance of failure.
Science Vessels will likely use a Torpedo Spread, Tractor Beam Repulsors, Photonic Shockwave, or, at that level, even a Gravity Well 1 or Tyken's Rift 2 (both are available at officer trainer).
Fire at Will is also available for all of these classes, but not very likely to fit into escort builds and has a moderate chance of success (unlike the AOE abilities and torpedo spreads mentioned above and like the warp plasma)
Edit: And did I forget to mention that you can always ask a Vice Admiral (heck, I'll even be willing to volunteer) to help you out? Yes I did ^^
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
That's what I did for a friend -- the "Kick back and relax while the VA tanker rofflestomps the Rommies" solution.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "I weary of the chase. Wait for me. I shall be merciful and quick."
Let's see.
Torps spread on escort. Nope, only a fool runs anything but a pure cannon + turret build in an escort on PVE, anything else is a lower DPS solution, and DPS is what keeps an escort alive in every other situation. They also like to grab you eitheir as your moving away or as your turning which negates CSV pretty hard, and if mid turn would make torp Spread usless too even if you brought.
Cruiser: No cruiser at low levels runs with TBR, in fact any cruiser running with TBR is bad, they don;t have the turn rate to use it effectivlly and Science is a good source of tank stuff, they also don;t have the tac slots to waste on torp spread, plus you should be broadside on.
BFAW is better though, but if your weapons are allready firing when they hit you with that tractor beam your still dead. By the time the cvurrent cysles finishes and your beams go into FAW mode the torps have allready hit. Luckilly cruiser have the best tanks.
Science: Agan no garuntee you'll be facing your target to use torp spread or Grav Well, or tykens. But TBR and Photonic work. If you don't get photonic'd yourself or Viral'd. But even then neitheir of those is abilities that are remotly useful against any other PVE opponent, (including other romulan stuff), prior to level 40 when you start running fleet actions.
Can you deal with them?
If you get lucky and don;t get viral'd, Photonic'd, or (for most counters), get caught side on can you deal with them? yes.
But it requires that a fair range of circumstances DO NOT HAPPEN, and it requires that you run some form of sub optimal build. nly the crusier standby of tanking through it really avoids these issues.
Nothing else in PVE content prior to the fleet level is so luck based, and nothing else period requires such a sub optimal build to have a chance to defeat.
the fact that it requires such a vast range of fancy meashures just for a chance to beat, (rather than just going in with a standard build and at worst fighting a hard fought battle), is an instant sign that it's broken becuase in being like that it fails tottally to conform to every other peice of PVE in the game.
the simplest method i have found however is to stay at least 5km away. out of tractor range. not that difficult, requires no boff skill changes, works with any ship or build.
just don't try to hug the romulans and you'll be fine.
@carl103, regarding your escort 'build' advice, you're wrong. torps work well, or did you forget you can stack 3 projectile doffs for decreasing torp cd? you did? so 1 or 2 torp tubes firing every 1.5 secs on avg increases dps beyond what's stated on the torps flyout since it only takes into account normal cd.
so for simplicities sake, 500dps torp, stated cd of 8 secs, 3x chance at 6 sec removed, so if even one doff hits 2 sec cd (if 2 hit becomes 1.5 the global) but lets say 2 sec, that equates to 2k dps. with a 90 deg arc. and with torps, power levels do not effect their damage.
can't say the same for cannons can you? their dps varies as your power levels rise and fall. torps aren't better, and aren't worse, but they are a viable mix with cannons if built in properly. and help maintain a high power level since they use none. allowing your remaining cannons to have consistent high dps.
Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
1. You are absolutely and utterly wrong.
2. As a matter of fact, my fed alt Pel'auro happened to get TBR on one of his initial science boffs. And what the heck does "don't have enough turn rate to use TBR" mean!? Any player early-game WILL use torpedoes, and I strongly recommend at least one torpedo launcher fore and aft for PvE cruisers. 5 seconds isn't enough for all three torpedoes to impact. Cruisers may be the best tanks, but no early-game player will understand how to bring a good tanking build into the fight anyway, unless they already played this on another alt, in which case they do not need our help.
3. I stated quite clearly that using Engineering Team will clear Viral Matrix before it can deal any major harm, and last I checked, Photonic Shockwave bought you a few extra seconds to bring your own counters into the battle.
4. You can deal with them without needing luck.
5. It does not require either; it requires patience and the usage of a regular or better build. One respawn may sometimes be necessary, but during your next life it'll be quite a while before they can do that again.
6. Actually, nothing at all prior to STFs and fleet content is so luck-based, and nothing whatsoever needs a sub-optimal build to beat (though it's useful in the above
7. I just proved that you are completely wrong, proving that it is not broken, merely a bit tougher than average.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
2. Torps are not affected by skill points in energy weapons skills.
3. rising and falling power levels with DHC's are negligible i end effect.
4. Torps have really bad sheild damage multipliers (0.25 i belive)
5. It's VERY common even with cannon fire backing them up for a sliver of health to regenerate on the sheilds thats still there when the torpedo strikes. That means the sheild damage multipliers kick in.
6. Cannons, especially with cannon abilities factor in average very high DPS. Using 2 difffrent toons as a base, (one is a torp heavy science ship toon, the other my cnanon heavy escort), to give the most favorable comparision possibble you would still need a 2.2 second average CD with photon torpedo's, and around a 2 second CD with Quantum and Plasma Torpedoes to match the DPS of the cannnon not factoring in damage multipliers. With them the torp is NEVER going to match the cannon.
The only place torps can outdamage cannons is in a rear mount replacing a turret. Even there you'd need high skills to really make it work.
I know torps have a high base DPS that makes them look impressive, but their sheild damage modifier and sheild mechanics make them drasticlly worse than energy weapons in practise. (If the challange system wasn't messed up by S6 i'd give you exact multiplier numbers for everything, and we could math it out to the decimal point).
That said i've just re-done a couple of missions on one of my toons for some ground gear to start fleet stuff with her. Despite flying and escort and getting caught between 2 warbirds, (end space section of premtive strike), which both decided i was top agro at the last second, (so no time to rreact being under 1KM away), the combined salvo did not do devestating damage. I survived just fine. Same with another warbird in another mission.
That tells me that the issue is ore the heavy plasma torps of the low level vershions being tuned too high. I'm not familiar with STO's patching history but didn't these used to have a diffrent minimum level at one time? M guts saying that below about Lv40 they#'re still packing lv 40+ equivelent torp launchers for their heavy plasma salvo. Would go a long way towards explaining things IMHO.
You do realize that weapons DO NOT scale with level? (at least that's how it was last i heard about it)
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
If they really don't then quite simply these warbirds are tuned for a level 40 or so. Not a level 20 becuase they where doing harsh but survivable numbers on my 50 ship.
1. they're affected by torp skills...that's kinda obvious >.> and there are only 2 cannon skills, even with doffs you'll still have gaps when no cannon skill will be running.
2. once again, obvious, that's why there's projectile weapon skills. if you have no points in projectile weapons, then no reason to mount torps.
3. flat out wrong. -72 power drain running 4x dhc fore, 3x turrets aft. the drain does affect dps. only your first salvo is at full rated damage, after and with steady on target fire dps will drop as power levels drop. don't believe? mouse over weapons tray while sustaining fire and watch the numbers plummet. even with slow ROF of dhc's, it's not enough to maintain high dps like it shows when your not firing just checking out ta uuberness of weapon dps.
4 and 5. also well known, torp launching every 1.5secs kinda makes that irrelevant with cannons and turrets. sliver of shield will be down. and a tidbit you did not mention is cannons, as with all energy weapons do the same amount to shields and hull. whereas torps rip hulls apart.
in stf's torps > cannons considering most objective targets are unshielded. and what is shielded melts rather fast. you seem to be under the impression that cannons are the best for everything, they're not. torps aren't either, nor are beams.
it's a balancing act, not one size kills everything (to paraphrase) yes, you can build your skills, boffs entirely around energy weapons, and be effective, doesn't make a torp+cannon build any less effective though. and much more flexible than you are.
ever seen what csv+ts3 does to a group? no, you can only deal with single and a few multiple targets (csv) in the narrow arc of your cannons.
only reason i'm even bothering is a detest bad information, enough players already do that for giggles in game. or 'you have to have this build to be ta uberness leetist ever' this isn't a game that has just one answer to everything.
Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
2. You've only got a limited number of sklill points. You want point in projectile weaposn skills. Be prepared to give up somthing else important to get it. My skill build has nothing i'd be willing to give up.
3. No your flat out wrong. My wepaons power NEVER drops below 105 during firing and is back up to between 115 and 120 by the time the next volley goes overboard. The drain therefore has minimal effect, it's the difffernace between a 2.5 and a 2.3 multiplier at the worst, thats still >1000DPS per cannon. I'm not saying it dosen't drain 72 power mind, but the way it's applied is clearly counteracted heavilly by the regeneration.
4. Your torpedoes are not launching every 1.5 seconds. using photon torps and 2 purple doffs your STILL only averaging every 4.5 seconds, (and thats giving you the stacking method thats most advantagous). Yes you may get a few salvos where it goes every 1.5 seconds. But thats not the norm.
5. Soprry but i cna tell you from long experimentations. that sliver of sheilds WILL be there more often than not no mater how many cannon salvos you pump into them. Sheils on NPC's regen very fast, especially the tougher targets.
6. STF's are no longer the endgame. They're useful for grindign dilithium. But it's fleet actions that matter now and everything in those is sheilded.
7. es you can run Torps plus cannons, but it's tottally suboptimal. It is in now way m,ore efeftive or more flexiable. I also know exactly what TS3 + CSV does. Less than no TS3 and just CSV becuase your energy weapons are delaing less damage than mine due to infiriour skills. You can't chain your CSV's like i can, and your torps are boucing off most of their sheilds. Not to mention that your torps just aren't as damaging as the cannon you could have mounted.
Is a torp plus cannon build unviable? No, no more than a cannon + Dual beam setup. But it's just as sub-optimal. It's just as much a DPS loss.
Yes, yes, you heard right, however they only get a health modifier. There are obviously exceptions, where ships are specifically tuned to be more powerful than they used to be (an example would be Borg ships in various STFs compared to, say, Borg ships in red alerts or fleet actions), however the norm is that only health scales by level.
*starts replying to other post*
1. I have 1 CRF, 1 CSV, 1 HY3, 1 HY1 (scheduled for death), 1 TS2 (scheduled for death), 1 TS3, and 1 TT1 on my Defiant-R. It serves me quite well. Oh, and a FAW due to using a more canon (2 beam arrays, one on each side) weapon setup.
2. Mine did. :P
3. That is because you are routing 50+ excessive power into your weapons - power that could have been used for engines or shields.
4. Then take 3 doffs and quantums? *sigh* Quantums deal better damage per attack anyway, and if you can get an average 3 second delay, you're better off with quantums than photons. Besides, they make the best HY3 imaginable!
5. I don't know where you came up with that. Most NPCs will lose their shields from just a bit of concentrated fire, and even most Borg ships will fall to suppressive fire from 2-3 well-built ships and their pets (in the case of carriers).
6. STFs ARE still the endgame. The only change is in the fact that fleet actions are currently more interesting due to being a more certain profit (mark 12 set is still hard to get and getting it is very uncertain, whilst fleet starbases are also hard to get but with more certainty).
7. Wrong on everything you've said. Torpedoes give you quite a bit of extra kick vs unshielded targets, and some (if not all) variants of torpedoes can damage more through shields than a cannon, most notably the Hargh'peng torpedo (no skills required), plasma and transphasic torpedoes, and the 1-minute cooldown tricobalt. I know I'm not running a very good build, but I can see a good build when I see one. *is currently testing an all-torpedo setup on his Vo'Quv as he speaks
Edit: In fact, assuming the target lasts 15 seconds after the impact of the Hargh'peng, you effectively got a free TS of unknown rank on all nearby targets as the radiation detonates and damages all ships within the area.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
I managed to take him out my first go-round without dying, although it was considerably hairier than when I ran through this in a cruiser.
(Main trick -- waiting until I had the level 30 ship to do this mission.)
I won't bore you with my complete build, but here's the pertinent bits. Most of this characters gear is still horrid mkV-mkVI white and green.
TT1, CRF1, CRF2, APO3
TT1, THY2
EPtS1, AtSIF1
HE1, PH2
(Side note: At least at my level, AtSIF is a bit "meh", but I didn't want to run ET on top of the two TT's.)
Phaser DC x3, Photon Torpedo
Phaser Turret, Photon mines
Tac consoles: 2xPhaser, 1xPhoton
Devices: SFM, RMC
The mines do help to some extent with the torpedoes, just spam them whenever the cooldown's over. Other than than I didn't use any real tactics beyond "dump everything I have at him including the kitchen sink, and hope."
=====
Note: From a tactical perspective.
Which is why I threw in a Torp ability.
But they're affected by skill points in projectile weapons skills. This character is Tactical, I can afford to spend points on Projectile because there's other places I won't be spending skills. (Graviton, Particle, or Sensors for example). Also, due to diminishing returns, most of my upper level skills only get 6 instead of 9 dots.
I'm running DC's because that's what I have right now, and I'm too cheap to spend much on mid-level weapons that I'm going to recycle in a couple of levels.
Which is why I keep an eye on the target reticule at the top of the HUD and/or listen for the "shields are down" voiceover. For the most part, NPC's don't do a good job at shield redistribution.
That's where DC's are a bit better than DHC's in a mixed cannon/torp build, IMHO, there's a more steady stream of damage.
Yes.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "I weary of the chase. Wait for me. I shall be merciful and quick."