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commadorebob
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When this game was launched, we were given an idea of the design ethos used to create the content of Star Trek Online. What the devs at that time were trying to do was recreate the episodic experience that most of us remember Star Trek for. This would explain why the game exists as it does. Each mission is a miniature "episode" within itself with the feature series comprising of multi-part epic (a la Xindi or Dominion War).
While this was successful in recreating the Star Trek episode feel, it had an unintended consequence: the content felt walled off. Rather than a living, breathing environment that would change based on player participation, we were given standard stories that, suffice it to say, became predictable. In fact, the one thing that caused us to love the Devidian and Reman feature series so much was it shook up the status quo. But even that content was walled off.
Since being acquired by PWE, Cryptic has adapted a different design ethos. Almost all new content has been endgame in nature, set up in a way that you could play it at any time. This is evidenced by the Duty Officer system, the Starbase system, as well as all of the new open PvE zones (Borg invasion and Tholian incursion). While making the Romulan Shuttle daily a timed event was a head-scratcher, Cryptic seems to be trying to open its walled off garden.
The plus side to this is it creates what I call the "Sim City Effect". The game no longer has a set endpoint. Under the original plan, once you finished the Borg front you are done with the game. After that were almost impossible to complete STFs and nearly vacant PvP. So we needed non-repetitive repeatable content. I haven't played an exploration mission since before the conversion to dilithium because they are all the same thing: Scan/Kill 5 XXXX. If I avoid playing a Red Alert, it isn't because a part of me died thinking of having to spend time on it; it's because I am busy doing something else.
So if you are a more traditional MMO player, this new approach is a bit of Godsend. The focus has become more about the gameplay than the story. You now have content you can join at any time and the experience will be different with each battle. You are not being led around.
But where does that leave those of us who enjoy story-based episodic content? Our last bit of content (beyond the KDF mission Alpha) was the Dominion Arc. And while a lot of work went into that mission, it didn't feel as epic as previous series. The "reset button" was a bit of a face palmer and the missions felt like a direct rehash of the DS9 Dominion War arc. Well, we already know that story.
What Cryptic needs to do going forward is focus on both aspects of the game. It needs episodic content that compliments the open PvE content. Imagine if there was a multi-part feature series that covered the invasion of Defera. The final mission could be your character being responsible for the evacuation of the Federation consulate. Once you are done, you unlock the Invasion Zone. Guess what, now that invasion zone makes sense without relying on us reading dev blogs. And you could use the existing invasion zone map to create that final mission. Now there is a bit of familiarity to it.
The same could have been done with the Tholian zone. A multi-part epic explaining their reappearance in quadrant politics culminating with a mission explaining why they are on this planet and why the Federation is even interested in a planet you have to wear an EV suit in order to not burst into flames. Make the open PvE maps compliment the story.
This would require a change in the way Cryptic operates. This would require hiring two different types of content designers: those focused on gameplay and those focused on story (*clears throat*). If the Foundry has proven anything, it's that a good storyteller will be able to tell a good story regardless of the assets he is given. Let the PvE zone designer design his map for his zone, and then give it to the story designer. They'll come up with a story to compliment it.
I believe having a four or five part epic paired with a new open PvE or PvP map is a better way to move forward. It gives both sides what they want and makes the addition of the new content seem bigger.
While this was successful in recreating the Star Trek episode feel, it had an unintended consequence: the content felt walled off. Rather than a living, breathing environment that would change based on player participation, we were given standard stories that, suffice it to say, became predictable. In fact, the one thing that caused us to love the Devidian and Reman feature series so much was it shook up the status quo. But even that content was walled off.
Since being acquired by PWE, Cryptic has adapted a different design ethos. Almost all new content has been endgame in nature, set up in a way that you could play it at any time. This is evidenced by the Duty Officer system, the Starbase system, as well as all of the new open PvE zones (Borg invasion and Tholian incursion). While making the Romulan Shuttle daily a timed event was a head-scratcher, Cryptic seems to be trying to open its walled off garden.
The plus side to this is it creates what I call the "Sim City Effect". The game no longer has a set endpoint. Under the original plan, once you finished the Borg front you are done with the game. After that were almost impossible to complete STFs and nearly vacant PvP. So we needed non-repetitive repeatable content. I haven't played an exploration mission since before the conversion to dilithium because they are all the same thing: Scan/Kill 5 XXXX. If I avoid playing a Red Alert, it isn't because a part of me died thinking of having to spend time on it; it's because I am busy doing something else.
So if you are a more traditional MMO player, this new approach is a bit of Godsend. The focus has become more about the gameplay than the story. You now have content you can join at any time and the experience will be different with each battle. You are not being led around.
But where does that leave those of us who enjoy story-based episodic content? Our last bit of content (beyond the KDF mission Alpha) was the Dominion Arc. And while a lot of work went into that mission, it didn't feel as epic as previous series. The "reset button" was a bit of a face palmer and the missions felt like a direct rehash of the DS9 Dominion War arc. Well, we already know that story.
What Cryptic needs to do going forward is focus on both aspects of the game. It needs episodic content that compliments the open PvE content. Imagine if there was a multi-part feature series that covered the invasion of Defera. The final mission could be your character being responsible for the evacuation of the Federation consulate. Once you are done, you unlock the Invasion Zone. Guess what, now that invasion zone makes sense without relying on us reading dev blogs. And you could use the existing invasion zone map to create that final mission. Now there is a bit of familiarity to it.
The same could have been done with the Tholian zone. A multi-part epic explaining their reappearance in quadrant politics culminating with a mission explaining why they are on this planet and why the Federation is even interested in a planet you have to wear an EV suit in order to not burst into flames. Make the open PvE maps compliment the story.
This would require a change in the way Cryptic operates. This would require hiring two different types of content designers: those focused on gameplay and those focused on story (*clears throat*). If the Foundry has proven anything, it's that a good storyteller will be able to tell a good story regardless of the assets he is given. Let the PvE zone designer design his map for his zone, and then give it to the story designer. They'll come up with a story to compliment it.
I believe having a four or five part epic paired with a new open PvE or PvP map is a better way to move forward. It gives both sides what they want and makes the addition of the new content seem bigger.
"If you have never used Cello, I'm not interested in your browser opinion."
___________________________
In game: Commadore_Bob; Joined Jul 2009; That post count + 20,000
___________________________
In game: Commadore_Bob; Joined Jul 2009; That post count + 20,000
Post edited by commadorebob on
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I think the ideal is something like the invasion events (an MMO zone), with some Of Bajor style content (flavor, which can include cutscenes), some Coliseum style content (an epic yarn), and an STF tied in (a social experience or dungeon).
There's been some decent academic writing on MMOs. What most people want is passive socialization. They don't want to be alone. They don't want to be griefed or forced to group.
I think the ideal is that you make the core an area with passive socialization. You bait that hook with reasons to go there, which include story, PvP, and planned grouping.
However, the important thing is people running into strangers without being too heavily influenced by those strangers... and to have people doing a variety of tasks that run perpendicular to one another.
So I'm hunting a targ... and I see three people run past me being chased by a snow monster. I think, "I wonder what they're doing?" Eventually, I'll probably find out. I might group with them. I might just keep chasing my targ.
The combination of these things add life to area.
Well, that's because this is a game.
But I see what you are saying. I'm just not sure if the engine can do what you are suggesting.
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In game: Commadore_Bob; Joined Jul 2009; That post count + 20,000
It really looks to me like Cryptic's resources stretch to either multiplayer end-game content or single player storyline content at the one time if they want to get new content out any more regularly than once every major extinction event. That's why we have Season 6 concentrating on the multiplayer aspect and storyline pencilled in for Season 7. I don't think they're dividing the seasons thematically just for the sake of dividing the seasons thematically.
And the game needed more multiplayer content to keep people playing, cos STFs have worn thin for a lot of players and are in the process of wearing thin with many others. Honestly, it could still use some more multiplayer content over and above the Starbase & Thollian missions (I know, being typical STO player here, never happy), particularly some available at the lower levels, because the Starbase and Tholian missions will become a big grind like STFs and people will burn out.
If they'd taken the time to plot, write, make maps, programme, internally test and then Tribble test the missions for a pre-amble to the Tholian Incursion, the ultimate outcome might have been epic, but how long would it have taken? I heard that Alpha sat around in a state of near-completeness for ages because the Devs had to concentrate on other things and couldn't finish it. So doing a single player preamble to the Tholian Incursion and the Tholian Incursion itself, would probably have taken a lot longer than just the Incursion by itself, and the bulk of the content would be played once. Whilst that was being made, a lot of players may have left. We can all say "well I'd have been happy to wait for something better." But we don't actually know that we wouldn't have gotten bored waiting for it and sodded off.
People leaving (which has a knock-on effect in MMOs that causes others to leave), is people not spending and is people getting into other games so they may not return to STO. I can completely understand their decision, and had I been in their shoes, I'd have probably done the same.
Now that said, I do love the storyline content and hope they do pick it up in Season 7 as they promised. I want to see what happens with the Iconians.
Every gamer sees it as game versus movie.
I think the word "game" is increasingly irrelevant as a discreet entity.
What's important is that you have an entertainment product.
But people who are into games tend to interpret that as turning games into interactive movies. I wish I could understand why game designers have such as obsession with film studies and film theory. Everything is either "games vs. movies" or "we need to be more like movies" depending on someone's disposition.
I think you have this huge space of entertainment products. Games are a small part of that although anything can be interpreted as a game and has game-like elements. Movies are also a small part of that.
Movies are more on solo/auteur/fascist terrain. You are subjected to what a filmmaker gives you. You experience them alone.
Games are not necessarily social but are more populist because they demand and build on participant audience agency.
But it isn't just some spectrum with games on one side and movies on the other. They're two regions of art and there are fifty bajillion surrounding types of art to draw from.
The world is a lot bigger than just those two things and I think cherry picking what works for your product is more important than identity, labels, or solidarity with an artistic movement or medium.
The fact that this is a game is irrelevant. What's relevant is that this is Star Trek Online. To the extent that this being a game serves the product's identity, it should embrace that, really embrace that. To the point that being a game hinders the product's identity, it should reject being a game.
Take Christopher Nolan's "The Dark Knight." As a Hollywood film? It's a mess. It's episodic rather than having a clean arc. Its rising action is all off. Some of the dialogue and performance choices are weird. Some of the philosophical points raised fall flat.
But as "The Dark Knight" without holding it to the standard of its parts or the tropes of Hollywood filmmaking? It's a blast. And people enjoy it. And I don't mean that in some "It's a popcorn flick" kind of way. It's a great, cohesive product. It's smart when it wants to be. It's engrossing where it needs to be. But it doesn't succeed by attempting to be movie like nor does it hedge its bets on every aspect being flawless.
As a film, I'd say it's a bit below average in terms of whether it does things that a film is supposed to do, structurally, like having three act rising action and a logical flow of action with a denouement that is relevant to the initial themes setup in the beginning. But as an experience, it's great.
Rather than a mishmash of this and that, focus your efforts. Each new PvE zone should include a Feature Series that goes along with it, new ships and gear, a new social zone, a new PvP map, and a new game mechanic that is new to STO. That would make them a little more complex, but I think it would be worth it.
I'm an old-school game player. I don't want an interactive movie! I want a game! I want the game to tell me the story by the things I do. I don't want the game to have me do things just advance the story.
(as for The Dark Knight, that is all part of Chris Nolan's film style. At least he doesn't like shining a flashlight into the lens)
___________________________
In game: Commadore_Bob; Joined Jul 2009; That post count + 20,000
That's all well and good but STO's a game.
Rather than focus on whether or not its a featured episode or not, I'd always want to see the story mixed in with the content.
The best success for me is when they focus just on one episode's worth of story rather than stretching out a story arc into individual missions.
As far as FE go, I enjoyed Alpha. The Fed/KDF or Cardassian missions, they need to be thrown out an airlock.
FEs as nice as they were, it was single player content first.
The best mix for me while it was still bearable were the STFs. It is/was end game content.
You had 1 episode's worth of story content. And it was broken up into different maps. Each map the story unfolded. There was a challenge and there was reward. And the best thing is, no BOFFs allowed. It actually was MMO'ish because you had to play with others.
Which is why the new Tholianferi event falls flat just like its predecessor. It's a smash and grab and who knows what the story is about. You'd think an invasion would require an explanation and effort to resolve. At the moment it feels like a tutorial mission I would have been doing at rank 5, not 50.
STO lacks a path of progression and structure game wise, right now all the new stuff seems to be dedicated to putting blocks into holes to pass time. The story is somewhere in between here and an Iconian gate.
I think we need a ****-ton of content...Especially for the KDF, I remember last year's causes: Year of Fail, History of the KDF with Cryptic, ETC...
I wish that PWE were not pulling Cryptic's strings, but alas: They own Cryptic. That won't change. We need someone official to act as a referee between Cryptic and PWE on the forums here.
Cryptic wants to help us, that I can trust in...But PWE won't allow massive content additions on the scale we'd all like, that's not how PWE engineers their game titles...
What we need, is a middle-ground between massive content add-ons, and small things like Dabo, Poker, and Tri-D Chess, and the like...
The Foundry seems like a sure bet: What we need, is more content to be added to the Foundry on a regular basis, allowing us to determine how much content is added to STO.
I don't care how small the content add-ons are to the Foundry, but they need to be done every week or every two weeks depending on the content in question. I don't even care if it takes a month, so long as the content is thought-out.
I am planning on doing a rather large series of Foundry missions soon, but I'd like the ability to have starbases, active or not, in my space and ground missions...Just take all the starbase models/textures currently in-game, and make them a selection for space objects...Surely that would not be out-of-line...???
Thanks for your time,
Kell out.
I can totally see that. I tend to get wordy when I get into a topic.
I think there are FE elements that work very well. I think there are STF and "event zone" aspects that work very well.
Heck, I tend to find the FE series bloated, like they're artificially extended by 1-2 parts just to be 5 parters. TV shows tend to do the same thing in America: we have this need to hit 22 episodes or more a season and it produces a need for filler.
I'd take 1-2 really good, social ground and space maps with 1-2 FE-quality episodes set on them and other activity there over some artificial 5 episode arc.
I will admit that one of my disappointments is with people not replaying FEs. I've played almost all of them except the last series 20 times each and the last series maybe 5+ times each. (The shuttle mission makes me less likely to play it because it interrupts the flow but is also necessary for grinding out gear sets.)
Overall, I think it would be beneficial to ask players requesting content, "What would you be willing to repeat 20 times? What about 100?"
Because the content NEEDS to be repeatable. It simply cannot pay for itself as a single play deal.
I don't think we disagree at all on the fundamentals but I find that statement, right there, to be unproductive. Products should not be defined by what they're meant to be.
If it would make more money as a breakfast cereal or a kitchen utensil, turn it into a breakfast cereal or a kitchen utensil.
Defining products and adhering to a definition of what they are is unproductive and unhealthy. Honestly? It's where enhancement diversification went wrong for Cryptic in its CoX days.
You should market a product based on how people use it and connect to it, not based on intent or intended classification.
Petroleum jelly and vasoline rubs used to be for old people with chapped hands. They became known for other uses for adults. Now, they get marketed for those other uses because there's money in it.
I think to the extent that being a game serves STO's business model, staff, and development realities, yes, run with that.
But I wouldn't get hung up on it being a game if doing something un-game-like brought in revenue or prestige.
I don't think it's important to be true to being a game, per se, any more than it is productive and profitable to be game-like.
I don't think its unproductive and I stand by my previous statement. The last thing that STO needs right now is an introspective look at the possibilities of game development philosophies and what kind of potential utopia-like mesh between storytelling genres it could achieve.
I don't know what other intent for a PC game is besides to play it. It's not an interactive movie nor is it a playable audio. There are Xboxes and Playstations for those type of games.
I cannot eat it, snort it or fornicate with it, and whatever commercial alternatives there might be for a Star Trek MMO, I'd rather not. STO needs to be a game first and a audio visual renaissance second.
What that other guy said is right. This game is 2 years deep. It needs content badly.
Taking it in another direction is going to be like waiting for Season 12. I don't think I'd be alive by then, and STO probably won't be either if it can't get its timetable straight. Experimentation time is over, we need execution. No more Perpetuals.
Utopian? I''m talking about identifying productive use of assets.
Productivity IS introspection. Lack of introspection is lack of productivity is wasted opportunity.
This is why TV shows have script editors and people who break story. You have to identify what you can do and how to maximize your use of it effectively.
The value of a product is directly proportional to the planning. Every snafu in STO or any game can be traced to a planning error.
Game-like is not always productive or financially viable, nor is it descriptive. You can't just "make a game." You have to design it and identify opportunities through thought and planning or you will have inadequate results.
Introspection can occur in a stream of conscious fashion. You don't stop making to introspect. You introspect as you make things and try to identify where slowing down and thinking something through will save twelve steps later.
Perpetual DID NOT exercise introspection. Introspection yields high volume of quality content. Lack of introspection is what causes content lulls.
It's faulty thinking.
Instead, I suggest that people consider that they are making a product, not worry about the label, and focus on making the best product they can with the resources they have available, regardless of how people perceive it as a game, a movie, a novel, whatever.
If something is enhanced by a cutscene, it's enhanced by a cutscene. If something is enhanced by socialization, it's enhanced by socialization.
I'm saying the introspection should be on the product and its effectiveness with the people who are consumers of that product and not the labels, which is a big discussion that accomplishes nothing and fuels employee turnover. Because when you do that, all anybody who works for you knows is that you aren't making what they set out to make instead of just focusing on the product, an introspective understanding of your specific product, and letting the labels fall where they may.
Nothing good can come from setting out to make "a game." It's meaningless when you try to court a label like that.
Ever listen to the podcasts with the devs and listen to what great upcoming things they have for us in the future and the grand plans and schemes and artwork and storyboards they have for us in Season X?
There's a grand vision for STO apparently and it's currently being exercised. Either they're right or they're wrong, they need to get it live, and the quicker the better. It's not like they pulled this game out of their TRIBBLE regardless of what we think.
It's a race against the clock for our time, money and attention. S6 is already pressed against a wack of AAA games ready to woo us all away.
And it all boils down to, if it ain't on Tribble/Holodeck, it ain't productive.
What do they have to keep us around? If it's just a plan and some soul searching? See ya.
BTW sorry for the threadjack Bob, my answer is still up there somewhere :P
As much as i enjoyed all the story content in STO it is not the content that hooks me to an MMORPG and i do not replay it alot .. just a couple of times: for story 1-2 times, for rewards/accolades if i want them .. thats it. The content that hooks me to a MMORPG is "gameplay" content like ( as they are now ) STFs, EE/Deferi/B'tran dailys, Pi Canis Sortie Alpha/Bravo/Path of the Warrior.
Story content is important, but more important is gameplay content. And i agree to what some of you allready said .. integrating story & gameplay content would be the best way to go.
I agree.
Cheers,
Maledicus.