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Engy looking for a Best Escort Ship
mindstrike
Member Posts: 16 Arc User
Hail all,
Just looking to get a feel where what might be the better Escort type craft for a Engineer Capt. Running STFs a lot and seem to be the one protecting Kang... While my Gal-X (Dragon) is handy.. not very nimble or fast.
So will the Defiant/Prometheus/Armitage something "we" can get into? Or Should I just Stick to my Sovy, and maybe put on some Omega sets vs the MACOs?
Or am I just doing it wrong?
Thank you.
Just looking to get a feel where what might be the better Escort type craft for a Engineer Capt. Running STFs a lot and seem to be the one protecting Kang... While my Gal-X (Dragon) is handy.. not very nimble or fast.
So will the Defiant/Prometheus/Armitage something "we" can get into? Or Should I just Stick to my Sovy, and maybe put on some Omega sets vs the MACOs?
Or am I just doing it wrong?
Thank you.
Post edited by mindstrike on
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I have an Oddy that I have used previously, however, I was always bored with it and didn't seem to make me any better. I imagine if I changed my skill set and play style it would be alot better, but I don't see the need to, the Jem'Hadar is far too awesome.
Honestly, you can make any captain style work with any ship type. Tacs/Eng/Sci naturally lean towards another, but don't adopt that TRIBBLE elitist mentality that TAC always = Escort or something along that line.
For the enjoyment of most of the game, even STFs, you can make anything work.
Naturally, there's some min/maxing at work if you really want the most out of something, especially for competitive play. But I've had my Fed Tac in a Sovereign or Star Cruiser work out very well, even with PVP.
The real heart of the matter is how you set your ship up and what BOFF skills you put in. That is the constant for whatever ship you choose, regardless of your captain's "class."
This. Definitely this. Tactical teams is a must have for escorts, though the engineer track makes survivability a tad easier, at the apparent cost of burst DPS.
The Armitage is the strongest (PvE) escort in the game right now, capable of routinely doing 8k+ DPS in parsers. It's Engineer BO layout makes it extremely durable, and the hangar bay adds a good 1k DPS and more than makes up for it's lack of a LtCmdr Tactical. The only other Escort that really comes close to matching it (or exceeding it in PvP) is the Jem'hadar attack ship... but that's not really a practical acquisition for most.
My Armitage manages to routinely out damage my KDF Garamba (which is a fantastic ship in it's own right) despite the fact I have significantly better gear and DoFFs on that character.
I run a forward pointing PVE tac oddy as an eng:
http://i.imgur.com/R5VRT.jpg
It may not look like much, but I can tank an elite cube and gate and deal 4k consistent DPS at the same time. Now, I know that 4k DPS is nothing compared to a pro escort hitting 7k, but keep in mind that I'm an engineer officer and taking a beating.
Everything you are gaining from 4xDBB in the front over Beam Arrays (more damage) you are losing from having Turrets in the back (Less damage than beam arrays, no synergy with Beam skills and no tac slots for cannons skills). It also forces you to face your targets.
Also, your Eng consoles:
1 MK XI Rare Tetraburnium = +35 vs. AP/Polaron
1 MK XI Rare Neutronium = +18 vs. All
1 MK XI Rare Monotanium = +35 vs. Kinetic
=
+53 vs. AP / Polaron / Plasma / Tetryon
+53 vs. Kinetic
+18 vs. Others (Phasers, Disruptors)
vs.
3 MK XI Rare Neutronium = +18 vs. all x 3
=
+54 vs. All
A minor improvement, but covers you vs. any other content that might show up (No win scenario for example).
Here's an example of what I'm running with 7x Beam arrays (all of my DPS parsings have 7 arrays coming out ahead of 8 arrays).
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=ODYEX001_0
You lose 2xRSP but gain 1x TSS 2 which is has better uptime than RSP x2. You can also use it on others.
You make some power trades in weapons for shields but will still be able to run 125 weapon power. You gain the higher resistance of the higher versions of EPTS
You gain APO 1, a tractor break, +defense, +resistance and maneuverability tool.
You gain APB, which you could swap out for BO 2 if you prefer (or drop one of the BFAW copies), but APB helps your entire team and for PvE vs. Elite Borg is easily the better choice for your team.
I've run this on both a Tac, and an Engineer with min 6 ranks in threat control on all Elite STFs.
At the OP:
The Armitage (best overall), Defiant or Fleet Escort would be the best options in that order.
If you're an Engineer in a cruiser, someone else should really be guarding the Kang.
Forward pointing setups are just as viable as beam array setups. Both configurations have a 90-degree effective arc, and DBBs work better with Beam Overload than normal arrays. The turrets in the back aren't affected by Beam Fire at Will, that's true, but if you notice, I run 2 copies of Beam Overload and no FAW.
Your math is solid, but take a look at this link: http://i.imgur.com/OJcJQ.png
You'll see that the dual neut setup provides 6% 'less' hull protection from plasma and AP when compared to the dual tetraburnium. the reason is because in STO, 18 + 18 =!= 36. Stacking consoles that do the same thing gives you a reduction in efficiency. basically, +35 to AP and plasma from one console is 'more' than 2 +18 consoles.
The primary benefit in the dual Neut setup is a considerable boost to my kinetic resist along with the phaser/disruptor resist. You're quite correct that it 'might' be better to use in missions like the no win scenario, but until that is out I prefer the anti-borg protection offered by dual dual tet armor plating. the most difficult ability for me to deal with is their blasted AP cutting beam that penetrates shields.
Still, don't get me wrong, I quite enjoyed evaluating your opinion here.
ah yes, the ltComm tac setup. It is a quite intriguing one, but definitely a shift from tanky to dps-y. I do enjoy your particular take on it, mostly because it doesn't sacrifice nearly as much as I thought it would. The key question, though, is this: is it worth losing both RSP for APB and APO? or, to rephrase, can I still tank and elite cube and gate without RSP?
If so, then it would be a straight DPS increase to switch over. I will give this setup more consideration, thank you very much for posting it.
The class has some great skills that can keep you alive. I focus my BO's on Dmg and heals for teammates.
So far this is my favorite build for the Armitage
Weapon Type: Disruptor
Fore: Cannon, Cannon, Dual Heavy, Beam Bank
Aft: Turret, Turret, Turret
Borg: Deflector and Engine
Shield: Maco XII
Device: Field Mod, and Engine Bat/Phaser Turret for STF's
Eng Consoles: Torp Point Def, Graviton Pulse, + Enemy Dependent hull plating or Impulse Capacitor Cell for a quick getaway.
Sci: Field Emitter, Borg Console
Tac: Disruptor x4
Hanger: Blue Runabouts or Blue Peregrines
Doffs:2 Maintenance Engineers, 2 Flight Deck Officers, 1 Damage Control Engineer
CMD Tac: Beam Shields, Scatter Volley 1, Beam Overload 3, Rapid Fire 3
Lt Tac: Tac Team 1, AP Beta 2
Ens Tac: Beam Engines
Lt Cmd Eng: EPS 1, EPW 2, Eng Team 3
Lt Sci: Polarize Hull, Transfer Shields 2
Has a really strong DPS, but you can still heal with Eng Team 3 + Miracle Worker. Plus Tac team and TS2 for the Kang.
Unrepentant; the pants optional fleet.
Support Flagship PVP and Target Marking
Of course, and also I'm sorry if it felt like I came out of the blue to pick on your build.
I just have a special love for Cruisers right now so they catch my attention.
That's true, they are definitely viable.
Actually the DBBs have a better arc (90 degrees) vs the broadside of beams (70 degree overlap) but that's not the actual issue.
The issue is that the way turning works, it's much easier to keep targets in the smaller 70 degree broadside as it only requires you to move forward or backwards, as opposed to keeping your nose on target with a base turn rate of 6 (adjusted around 8 to 9 usually on a combat map).
That plus the synergy with a power like BFAW working for both Fore and Aft weapons are the main benefits.
You could definitely slot 1 DBB up front, and use that as needed with 1 copy of BO. In general BO is a nice burst skill, and BFAW is the much better DPS/AoE/Threat Generation skill.
Since my focus is actually tanking first, BFAW comes as the better choice for me.
As 8x Beams is actually worse (in my DPS logs, anyway) than 7x Beams I run 1 Trico up front for a little burst it's not the greatest but it doesn't require energy consumption.
Actually, I think you've misunderstood. (I'll be lazy again and not plug everything into the resistance formula :P)
2x Neutroniums (+36 bonus) will of course lose to 2x Tetraburniums (+70 bonus).
However your first example is 1 Tetra, 1 Mono & 1 Neutronium.
My suggestion was not 2x Neutroniums and 1x Mono, my suggestion was 3x Neutroniums only.
When you have a chance to slot those 3, please compare to your original post (which shows 1 Tetra, 1 Mono, 1 Neut).
Absolutely.
The beauty is that you will be running more shield power overall for higher resistance and regen, and you will also have APO for a variety of uses, as well as TSS up every 45s vs. RSP up every 60s. Not to mention the team benefits of APB (you could take APD instead, if you were more worried about taking hits and debuffing big targets vs. simply debuffing any and every target).
So TSS replaces your RSPs, APO keeps you free of tractors (which is generally the real killer for a serious STF tank as that?s when you get nailed by Torps).
The one thing I forgot to mention which really helps this set up work is DOFF slots:
I'm running 3x Shield Distribution DOFFs & 2x Purple Tac Team CONN DOFFs. That maximizes TSS and EPTS when I need it.[FONT="]
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Yes, my first experience tanking endgame STFs was in a beam array star cruiser (before the ship sale came by and I got the Oddy pack). B FAW is a great skill for 'aoe' tanking like in ISE with all the spheres, KASE with the mega spawn, and CSE with the negh/raptor spawns. However I feel like the AOE tanking isn't as essential as single target tanking, which requires grabbing aggro from an escort burning all his cooldowns trying to get that gate down.
That's where I feel that BO and the forward-facing setup does best.
Oh, yeah I see what you're saying. I guess it would be good for me to go in and examine all the logical options, just like I looked at the 2xtet and 2xneu. Will do.
yeah, I definitely see what you mean. I'm considering giving the LTcomm setup a shot.
My current doff setup is 2 tac team doffs, exocomp, a warp core engineer, and a shield dist officer.
I've pulled aggro off of Escorts doing just that actually - and these are friends playing very well and hitting extremely high DPS marks, not random PUG escorts
One thing to keep in mind is as soon as there is only one target, your higher beam rate of fire suddenly turns into a very large ST DPS boost.
Sometimes you need to angle yourself to cut down on other targets, but that's rare.
All of that being said, nothing is stopping you from grabbing 1 copy of BO and slotting 1 DBB for it, I tend to use the Trico at point blank range for exactly what you describe but swapping BFAW 1 for BO 1 would work IMO.
I need to get a fixed boff/doff/item setup and then switch between both styles while tracking my DPS, surely one version is better DPS than the other.
i would recommend the armitage with 3 piece borg & maco 12 shields.
For tanking in an escort the Armitage makes the most sense...if using an escort as a tank ever makes sense at all. Personally I would never use the hangar bay because I fly my escort like an escort. The loss of the LtCmdr Tactical station is a pretty serious drawback where DPS is concerned and for somebody who won't be using the hangar bay the Armitage makes no sense.
My numbers where from a Tactical officers perspective, so there a bit skewed. A eng doing 4-5k is perfectly respectable.
You still fly the Armitage like an escort regardless, you just press an extra button to launch fighters every 15 seconds. It's just gravy.
I would like to mention, that in my own build, I use the shield repair drones, they are VERY useful.
However, the Fleet Escort is an excellent choice too, and I used it for quite awhile before the escort carrier came out. So, here's just a (hopefully) un-biased comparison between the two:
Fleet Escort vs. Escort Carrier
Weapon layout, is exactly the same on both.
Console layout, is exactly the same on both.
Base hull, is exactly the same on both.
Impulse rate and turn speed, is exactly the same on both.
The Armitage has the Torpedo Point Defense System console, and the hangar bay.
The two ships have very close BOFF layouts.
Both have a Cmdr. Tac. Both have a Lt. Sci. The differences are that the Fleet Escort has a Lt. and ensign engineer with a Lt. cmdr tac, while the escort carrier has a Lt. and ensign tac, with a Lt. Cmdr engineer.
Basically what it all boils down to is this:
Do you want the hangar bay (and possibly use the torpedo console as well?).
Do you want to use two big Lt. Cmdr tactical abilities (like high yield 3, and a torpedo spread 3) on the Fleet Escort; or instead be able to use a big Lt. Cmdr engineering ability, such as Eject Warp Plasma 1 on the Escort Carrier?
What makes an escort and escort is cannons.
If you wanted really to, I suppose you could try a Single Cannon build using 4x Single Cannons fore and 4x Turrets aft.
Then you could do the following:
TAC LT: TT 1 > CRF 1
TAC LTC: TT 1 > CRF 1 > APO 1
Frees up 2x Active Duty slots or:
TAC LT: TT 1 > CRF 1
TAC LTC: BO 1 > CRF 1 > APO 1
With 3x Cannons + 1DBB
4x Turrets
The main issues would be that Saucer sep does have some limitations, specifically a 5 min cooldown.
It would probably be a smidge more DPS, but I doubt it would be more than 500 or so.
Can an oddy equip cannons? I wasn't sure.
To address the original question, I fly a defiant refit and I use the APO to escape tractors and as a second evasive maneuvers. I'm sure my build isn't as finely tuned as some of the others posted here, but I survive and I dish out the damage and I have fun. One of my alts is a sci in the kitty carrier, so if I want to fly with pets, I would rather play him than buy the armitage with the single hanger bay.
The Armitage is a full Escort, and with even a single hangar bay you will see a significant DPS increase on something like Elite STFs.
Also, for Cure Space Elite, the Danubes provide a great "free" tractor beam against Raptors and Negh'var.