test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Fleetbase Ship Concerns
esuzi
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
After looking at the current ship line up on tribble, and reading the current threads, I've found quite a few things that concern me.
I'll be no where as indepth as DontDrunkImShoot, mostly going over balance, consistency or gameplay concerns.
First major concern, that I'll get out of the way because it'll come up alot:
The Retrofits are just not worth it (unless you love the ship) (for the most part). Their downsides, for no major upside just makes them impractical ships, when compared to their free RA counterparts. They either need hull/shield buffs, or their Ens/Lt rolled into an LtC (and possibly still a hull/shield buff).
Cruisers
Tier 1:
(Fleet) Heavy Cruiser Retrofit
Standard Retrofit concerns.
(Fleet) K'tinga Battle Cruiser Retrofit
Standard Retrofit Concerns, price got fixed however!
Tier 2:
Fleet Star Cruiser
No real concerns, although a 3rd tac console would have been nice.
Fleet Tor'Kaht Battle Cruiser Retrofit
I do belive this should be in another tier, wherever the Fleet Assault Cruiser should have been.
Assuming the above is correct, would be nice to see a tier 2 KDF cruiser.
This was formerly the Fleet Vor'cha, and is still a Vor'cha, but seems to have had the Tor'Kaht skin included (still available in the C-Store).
Tier 3:
I'm guessing the Fleet Assault Cruiser was here, and the Fleet Vor'cha should be.
Tier 4:
Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit
A 3rd Tac Console would have been nice.
Fleet Negh'Var
The inclusion of an ensign universal gives it a bit too much edge over the Fleet Exploration in my books.
Tier 5:
Nice to see the free Bortas/Oddy available again.
Escorts & Friends
Tier 1:
Fleet Patrol Escort
First concern is the universal ensign station, most people will keep it as engineer, so it seems kindof random, and makes the possibility of a Fleet Advanced Escort slim.
Second concern is that this has received ~12.5% hull increase, being higher than the existing trend.
Also really don't think this should be available at tier 1.
Fleet Qin Heavy Raptor
I've always kindof considered this to be the KDF version of a Defiant R., and would like to see it continue to be competetive against them.
Switching the tenth console to a tac would definitely level the playing field a bit.
Also really should not be tier 1, more so if it receives a fifth tac console.
(Fleet) Scourge Destroyer Retrofit.
Besides my standard retrofit issues, this one suffers from some inconsistency.
The Original Scourge features Ens/Lt Engineering, as does the Retrofit, however the Fleet Retrofit has decided to go with an Ens Sci.
With the addition of receiving an extra sci console, this is just a very inconsistent ship at the Fleet Retrofit level.
Tier 2:
(Fleet) Escort Retrofit
On top of the standard, the shields on this someone extra low, especially compared to it's closest KDF cousin (Scourge Retrofit)
Additionally, I feel this really belongs in tier 1.
(Fleet) Somraw Raptor Retrofit
Standard Concerns aside, I feel the ensign engineer really should have been a science. The original ship is vague enough to go either way, leaving room for the Scourge Destroyer to be consistent, as well as the KDF to have a more science based escort.
Tier 3:
Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit
The fifth Tac Console really makes me hate this ship, almost entirely because the KDF have nothing to counter this.
Shield mod being at the standard .9 makes up for a bit, but not much.
Tier 3 may also be a bit low for this one.
Fleet Ning'tao Bird-of-Prey
With hull and shield levels of a retrofit, without actually being a retrofit, I question the practicality of this one.
I'm totally fine with trading a tenth console for that extra LtC universal though.
Since this IS the Norgh Refit, would it not make more sense for there to be a Retrofit, as well as a Fleet Retrofit?
Tier 4:
(Fleet) Aquarius Destroyer
Honestly, one dissapointing ship.
The Ens universal is a nice touch, the Lt universal however is rather wasteful on an escort.
Between the awkward universals and weapon loadout, this is clearly a prime candidate to be a BoPscort.
Give it the turn rate, the hull and the shields of a BoP, leave off the cloak and full universal boffs.
KDF keep one of their few unique ship types, Feds get a fun little escort to whip around in, everyone wins.
Fleet Advanced Escort
Not currently in the shipyard, but may have a tough life against the Fleet Patrol Escort.
(Fleet) Hoh'Sus Bird-Of-Prey
Wouldn't mind the hull/shields being brought in between the Hegh and B'rel, instead of just using the B'rel stats (for the Standard version, Fleet Hoh'Sus has excellent stats).
Tier 4 may also be a bit high compared to Fed ships.
Tier 5:
Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier
Stats on this one seem great, the console irks me a bit though. With being the most engineer focused of the escorts, wouldn't an extra engineering console make far more sense?
Science
Tier 1:
Fleet Deep Space Science Vessel
Exactly as I would expect, but not sure it belongs in Tier 1.
(Fleet)Research Science Vessel Retrofit
Standard Retrofit business here, nothing to worry about.
Tier 2:
Fleet Reconnaissance Science Vessel
Looks great to me.
Tier 3:
Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit
Looks Great here too.
(Fleet) Science Vessel Retrofit
With it's recent turn rate boost to 14 and 10th console on the Fleet Retrofit, this is starting to look practical, which is making it's lack of hull/shields less insulting.
It could still use a shield boost, 1.1/1.21 for shield mods would probably fill out this ship rather nicely.
The mismatched boffs between the Retrofit and Fleet Retrofit are still a concern, and I would really like to see the Fleet Retrofit boffs used on the Retrofit.
(Fleet) Corsair Flight-deck Cruiser Retrofit
For once, the stats actually don't look too bad. The boffs also look pretty good.
However, I'm incredibly confused, the Fleet Retro looks awesome and like it should, while the Retrofit looks like a Marauder.
Tier 4:
With no shortage of science ships, an empty tier seems very odd.
Tier 5:
Fleet Long Range Science Vessel Retrofit
No complaints, although I do feel it should be swapped with one of the lower tier Fleet Ships.
Fleet Vo'quv Carrier
Honestly, it really really does not need that engi console, it'd be far more sucessful with another tac console.
I'd also really like some of the extra hull dropped in favour of a bit more manueverability. If we're waitin till tier 5, make it worth it.
Additional:
There's two ships I would have love to have seen the KDF get out of this:
First is the K'Tanco, there's more than enough room for the KDF to receive a fourth Cruiser.
Second is one of the Gorn ships, preferably the Varanus. Gorn need love too.
The Fleet Assault Cruiser is completely missing, and no longer even mentioned in the Starbase rewards.
The Fleet Escort's rename, while understandable, needs to be ONE name. Blockade Escort or Patrol Escort are both good names, but for consistency use one please.
I'll be no where as indepth as DontDrunkImShoot, mostly going over balance, consistency or gameplay concerns.
First major concern, that I'll get out of the way because it'll come up alot:
The Retrofits are just not worth it (unless you love the ship) (for the most part). Their downsides, for no major upside just makes them impractical ships, when compared to their free RA counterparts. They either need hull/shield buffs, or their Ens/Lt rolled into an LtC (and possibly still a hull/shield buff).
Cruisers
Tier 1:
(Fleet) Heavy Cruiser Retrofit
Standard Retrofit concerns.
(Fleet) K'tinga Battle Cruiser Retrofit
Standard Retrofit Concerns, price got fixed however!
Tier 2:
Fleet Star Cruiser
No real concerns, although a 3rd tac console would have been nice.
Fleet Tor'Kaht Battle Cruiser Retrofit
I do belive this should be in another tier, wherever the Fleet Assault Cruiser should have been.
Assuming the above is correct, would be nice to see a tier 2 KDF cruiser.
This was formerly the Fleet Vor'cha, and is still a Vor'cha, but seems to have had the Tor'Kaht skin included (still available in the C-Store).
Tier 3:
I'm guessing the Fleet Assault Cruiser was here, and the Fleet Vor'cha should be.
Tier 4:
Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit
A 3rd Tac Console would have been nice.
Fleet Negh'Var
The inclusion of an ensign universal gives it a bit too much edge over the Fleet Exploration in my books.
Tier 5:
Nice to see the free Bortas/Oddy available again.
Escorts & Friends
Tier 1:
Fleet Patrol Escort
First concern is the universal ensign station, most people will keep it as engineer, so it seems kindof random, and makes the possibility of a Fleet Advanced Escort slim.
Second concern is that this has received ~12.5% hull increase, being higher than the existing trend.
Also really don't think this should be available at tier 1.
Fleet Qin Heavy Raptor
I've always kindof considered this to be the KDF version of a Defiant R., and would like to see it continue to be competetive against them.
Switching the tenth console to a tac would definitely level the playing field a bit.
Also really should not be tier 1, more so if it receives a fifth tac console.
(Fleet) Scourge Destroyer Retrofit.
Besides my standard retrofit issues, this one suffers from some inconsistency.
The Original Scourge features Ens/Lt Engineering, as does the Retrofit, however the Fleet Retrofit has decided to go with an Ens Sci.
With the addition of receiving an extra sci console, this is just a very inconsistent ship at the Fleet Retrofit level.
Tier 2:
(Fleet) Escort Retrofit
On top of the standard, the shields on this someone extra low, especially compared to it's closest KDF cousin (Scourge Retrofit)
Additionally, I feel this really belongs in tier 1.
(Fleet) Somraw Raptor Retrofit
Standard Concerns aside, I feel the ensign engineer really should have been a science. The original ship is vague enough to go either way, leaving room for the Scourge Destroyer to be consistent, as well as the KDF to have a more science based escort.
Tier 3:
Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit
The fifth Tac Console really makes me hate this ship, almost entirely because the KDF have nothing to counter this.
Shield mod being at the standard .9 makes up for a bit, but not much.
Tier 3 may also be a bit low for this one.
Fleet Ning'tao Bird-of-Prey
With hull and shield levels of a retrofit, without actually being a retrofit, I question the practicality of this one.
I'm totally fine with trading a tenth console for that extra LtC universal though.
Since this IS the Norgh Refit, would it not make more sense for there to be a Retrofit, as well as a Fleet Retrofit?
Tier 4:
(Fleet) Aquarius Destroyer
Honestly, one dissapointing ship.
The Ens universal is a nice touch, the Lt universal however is rather wasteful on an escort.
Between the awkward universals and weapon loadout, this is clearly a prime candidate to be a BoPscort.
Give it the turn rate, the hull and the shields of a BoP, leave off the cloak and full universal boffs.
KDF keep one of their few unique ship types, Feds get a fun little escort to whip around in, everyone wins.
Fleet Advanced Escort
Not currently in the shipyard, but may have a tough life against the Fleet Patrol Escort.
(Fleet) Hoh'Sus Bird-Of-Prey
Wouldn't mind the hull/shields being brought in between the Hegh and B'rel, instead of just using the B'rel stats (for the Standard version, Fleet Hoh'Sus has excellent stats).
Tier 4 may also be a bit high compared to Fed ships.
Tier 5:
Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier
Stats on this one seem great, the console irks me a bit though. With being the most engineer focused of the escorts, wouldn't an extra engineering console make far more sense?
Science
Tier 1:
Fleet Deep Space Science Vessel
Exactly as I would expect, but not sure it belongs in Tier 1.
(Fleet)Research Science Vessel Retrofit
Standard Retrofit business here, nothing to worry about.
Tier 2:
Fleet Reconnaissance Science Vessel
Looks great to me.
Tier 3:
Fleet Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit
Looks Great here too.
(Fleet) Science Vessel Retrofit
With it's recent turn rate boost to 14 and 10th console on the Fleet Retrofit, this is starting to look practical, which is making it's lack of hull/shields less insulting.
It could still use a shield boost, 1.1/1.21 for shield mods would probably fill out this ship rather nicely.
The mismatched boffs between the Retrofit and Fleet Retrofit are still a concern, and I would really like to see the Fleet Retrofit boffs used on the Retrofit.
(Fleet) Corsair Flight-deck Cruiser Retrofit
For once, the stats actually don't look too bad. The boffs also look pretty good.
However, I'm incredibly confused, the Fleet Retro looks awesome and like it should, while the Retrofit looks like a Marauder.
Tier 4:
With no shortage of science ships, an empty tier seems very odd.
Tier 5:
Fleet Long Range Science Vessel Retrofit
No complaints, although I do feel it should be swapped with one of the lower tier Fleet Ships.
Fleet Vo'quv Carrier
Honestly, it really really does not need that engi console, it'd be far more sucessful with another tac console.
I'd also really like some of the extra hull dropped in favour of a bit more manueverability. If we're waitin till tier 5, make it worth it.
Additional:
There's two ships I would have love to have seen the KDF get out of this:
First is the K'Tanco, there's more than enough room for the KDF to receive a fourth Cruiser.
Second is one of the Gorn ships, preferably the Varanus. Gorn need love too.
The Fleet Assault Cruiser is completely missing, and no longer even mentioned in the Starbase rewards.
The Fleet Escort's rename, while understandable, needs to be ONE name. Blockade Escort or Patrol Escort are both good names, but for consistency use one please.
Post edited by esuzi on
0
Comments
seconded..
coughlinkcough
Or a bit low, if you compare it to a Hegh'ta. It's like a slightly better version of the Hegh'ta with a Tac console added, but less crew.
Less Crew (75 instead of 100)
More Shield (0.88 instead of 0.8)
More Hull (24750 vs 24000)
Turn (Same: 21)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "I weary of the chase. Wait for me. I shall be merciful and quick."
Also, as FDCs, not carriers, I don't see how they should have subsystem targetting. Does the current Captain level one have it?
As to the fed ships, can't really comment on the cruisers, I don't fly them. The uni ensign on the Patrol Escort is bizarre, if they were going to put a uni ensign on something it should have been the Intrepid.
I don't believe all the ships are visible yet on tribble, I expect the Aquarius to make an appearance at least.
Join the STFHelp channel
Comparing the Crew to the Hegh'ta instead of the B'rel it does seem a bit more reasonable. My issue with the hull/shields were for the regular version, which are identical to the B'rel.
The ships are sorted into starbase tiers, and I didn't get a chance to jot down which tier it was in before it's vanishing act.
My main issue was the fact that the standard Retrofit is more or less a Marauder, while the Fleet is heavily Sci based, which I feel is more fitting. The Captain Corsair is rather sci heavy for it's tier, and does have Subsystem Targeting. The Marauder on the other hand, is more or less a Star Cruiser with a hangar bay.
im pretty sure your confusing that ship with the gorn sci ships. all the orian ships are cruisers, + a hanger.
thats another problem, theres no fleet gorn sci ship for the kdf. why? becase geko said they all look the same so its pointless.
.... umm, no see it really doesn't mater what it looks like, there should be one so we have another slightly unique ship with a slightly unique station setup, so theres more of a variety of ships. there are exactly 0 kdf sci fleet ships, is it clear now why the captain gorn ship should have a fleet version like the tier 4 orian?
I was mistaken, after checking in game it turns out stowiki is wrong regarding the dacoit/corsair having Subsys Targeting. I've removed it from my concerns accordingly.
As far as the Gorn Sci ship, completely agree with you. Looking liking other ships has nothing to do with it, as a majority of these ships are existing ships, and therefore look like other ships.
It really sucks. I'm fine not having the Vulcan and Nausican ships, but it would be nice for Fed characters to have a fleet version of a fully fledged carrier, and the Klingons need a true Science vessel (which are the gorn ships) in their fleet lineup.
Look at the fleet system in Holdings. Shipyard tier 5 lists Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier as one of the ships unlocked. There's just no stats up in requisitions. Requisitions doesn't have stats for the non fleet version either.
The ship BOFF Layout:
Tactical COM, Tactical LTC, Engineering LT, Univeral LT & ENS.
The problem with this layout though, is that it basically forces you to have the LT as a Science, since there's no Science on this ship. Personally speaking, I would've just went everything universal after the commander or blatantly give as much tactical as you can give it.
As for the ship stats:
Hull: 26400
Crew: 50
Shield Modifier: .72
Turn: 16 (huh?)
Device: 2
Fore: 4
Aft: 2
Consoles are the same as the Fleet Escort Retrofit. 4 Enginering, 4 Tactical, 2 Science.
Now then, the problem with this is it seems to be akin to the BOP. I say seems as its turn rate is less than the Defiant. I forget the Impulse Modifier, but it seems to be less than the Defiant as well. Which makes no sense, since this ship is still smaller than the Defiant. I hope this gets fixed.
...I can't even imagine how you get 50 people in that ship, let alone maybe 30, unless its on scale with the Defiant in size.
I expected these ships to have less HP etc. but I thought they would be given something to compensate for that, like a turn-rate bonus.
Personally, I was really looking forward to (Fleet) Escort Retrofit, especially if I could use the Gladius skin on it. Yet when I checked the stats I couldn't believe my eyes, as the ship looks like something in between Tier 4 and Tier 5. Even the free ships given at RA rank (Patrol/Advanced Escort) have way better stats than this. The turn-rate is the same (16), while both HP and Shield Modifiers are significantly reduced. Why would I want that over my free Patrol Escort?
The Destroyer is even worse. It's basically a poor man's Bird of Prey, but without the ability to cloak and with the turn-rate of your average escort. I really see no purpose for such ship whatsoever.
So please tell me, assuming I don't care about the looks only - why would I want to use these over any other proper Tier 5 ship? What makes these Tier 2-4 retrofits stand out over the rest? As far as I checked, only science ships look somewhat useful, but the rest? No thanks.
Since they are putting refitted Tier 2 and 3 ships with the refitted Tier 4s and now refitted Tier 5s, all ships should be available for upgrade and let us refit our ships everytime we level. At the same time, ships can get more unique ship traits, like some ships having a faster speed (being smaller with lower mass). Another example would be like the Saber having manuverability, while the Defiant having a high damage resistance (with low hull) like in Trek.
So when people reach Teir 5 and join a fleet (or already in one), they can have a Fleet refit, that gives boosts to stats. You leave, the benefits are lost. Which means that players don't have to wait in line for ships to become available or run into somekind of politics.
Agreed, I don't care what the Gorn ships look like only that it is the only Sci option the Klingon's have... I use the Varanus and love it... please Cryptic put this ship into the Fleet Shipyards!
I agree that KDF lacks any proper Fleet Sci ships, which should be looked into. The only thing close to a sci is the Fleet Corsair, I believe. Those ships do not have any built-in abilities, so it shouldn't really be a problem.
Feds: (Fleet) Aquarius Destroyer, Fleet Heavy Escort Carrier, and (Fleet) Science Vessel Retrofit.
KDF: Fleet Vor'cha (now Fleet Tor'Kaht)
The only thing to receive any adjustments were the (Fleet) Science Vessel Retrofit, which still needs more work in my opinion.
On a plus, the Vor'cha now comes with the Tor'Kaht skin.
The Somraw in general is just a TRIBBLE poor version of the Fleet Patrol Escort. It's only advantage is an extra SCI console instead of the Patrol's Eng console, but it's shield modifier is so terrible in comparison that this is more of an equalizer than an advantage.
The Raptors in general are just TRIBBLE poor compared to the federation escorts, I assume because they pay a tax for their innate cloaking ability. The Fleet Scourge Destroyer is the only legitimate (PvE) escort the Klingons are given.
From a gameplay point of view I do totally agree with this, the only reason I'm behind ens/lt on the destroyer is because every destroyer features that boff layout, and I'm a fan of consistency.
As far as comparing any of the KDF's S6 escorts to Fed ones, I'm not gonna bother. I doubt KDF will see anything resembling equality for a while.