Vorcha retfit or Negh'var?

teklionbenrasha · July 2012

I have the basic Vorcha at Captain, and am getting close to Rear Admiral and wondering what to get. Now, I am a canon kinda guy, which leaves me with the Vorcha refit or the Negh'var. Which should I get? I love my Vorcha, it's not too bad on the turn and is a tenacious little thing; but then the Negh'var is huge and has a crew of thousands. Hmmm...

tetonica · July 2012

I find the negh'var does ok with cannons, at least in pve. I put on a rcs console and combined with liberal use of reverse I find it fairly easy to keep my connons on the npc's.

I also think the negh is leaps and bound ahead in terms of looks and the little glowy red torp launcher on the back of the vor'cha brings up glowing red bum hole images in my mind for whatever reason which makes the negh even more appealing :P

That said I'm hardly a sto vet and pick ships much more for looks and feel than min/max efficiency

relizarraras · July 2012

Both are great ships. The Vor'cha is a bit more fun for me because of its slightly better turn rate and extra tactical boff ability, but the negh'var is tougher and better looking, in my opinion.

bitemepwe · July 2012

Using 2 A2D abilities, mnay have made the Vorcha/Neghvar quite manuevarble in combat.

I would link the thread on the subject but it seems I no longer have it saved.

Here is a copy.

*** HOW TO: Make your Negh'var Battle Cruiser Turn on a Dime ***

First, I would like to thank the Cryptic development team for making this amazingly fun play-style possible.

Have you always wanted to fight the Federation face-to-face, as a true Klingon warrior, with your Battle Cruiser? Are you unhappy with using puny Beam Arrays and turning your side to the enemy, or fighting against your mediocre turn rate in an attempt to make use of Heavy Cannons... just to have the cowardly Starfleet dog fly out of your firing arc? Look no further than my HOW TO guide; I will teach you how to harness the true power of the Negh'var Battle Cruiser and show you how to rip through the enemy with your Heavy Cannons and Torpedoes with a key and potent ability: Auxiliary Power to the Interia Dampeners. Your defeated enemies will be left cowering in fear and wondering how a Battle Cruiser out maneuvered them and shredded them to pieces!

What is "Auxiliary to Inertia Dampeners"?

Commonly referred to "Aux to ID" or "Aux2ID", Auxiliary to Inertia Dampeners is an Engineer Bridge Officer power that starts at Lieutenant rank, with the most powerful version being Commander rank. The first two ranks are trainable at Qo'Nos from the Officer trainer. The skill itself is reliant on your Auxiliary power setting -- this means the more Auxiliary power that your ship runs, the greater effect this skill will have. My Battle Cruiser runs at 86 Auxiliary power and listed below are my bonuses.

+71% Kinetic damage resistance for 15 seconds.
+91% Flight Speed strength for 15 seconds.
+182% Turn Rate strength for 15 seconds.
Immunity to Knockback effects for 15 seconds.
Immunity to Repel effects for 15 seconds.
+69% Able & Alive crewman resistance for 15 seconds.

As you can see with the numbers above, this power is nothing to dismiss. The kinetic damage resistance alone will drastically reduce the damage you suffer from Torpedoes and Science powers like Gravity Well. Your Battle Cruiser will move very swiftly and be at the Speed Defense cap, causing enemy shots to have a higher rate of missing you completely. The turn rate boost will allow you to out-maneuver enemy Escorts, and especially slow Cruisers and Science Vessels. The immunities granted will neuter Science powers such as Tractor Beam Repulsors and Photonic Shockwave... while the sizable crew resistance will help to keep your crew of 2500 alive. As an additional bonus, it will make Galaxy retrofit captains jealous of your superior ship!

[ The Big Bad Battle Cruiser ]

Here is the core build listed below. The fun thing about my build is that it's highly adaptable to your play-style while retraining its main function! Feel free to experiment and provide feedback so that I can make this Battle Cruiser even more unstoppable.

Bridge Officer Power Selection
* Lieutenant Tactical Officer: Torpedo (High Yield) 1, Cannon (Rapid Fire) 1.
* Lieutenant Science Officer: Tractor Beam 1, Hazard Emitters 2.
* Ensign Engineering Officer: Emergency Power (Shields) 1.
* Lieutenant Commander Engineering Officer: Emergency Power (Weapons) 1, Reverse Shield Polarity 1, Auxiliary to Inertia Dampeners 2.
* Commander Engineering Officer: Emergency Power (Weapons) 1, Engineering Team 2, Auxiliary to Inertia Dampeners 2, Eject Warp Plasma 3.

Skills Spent at Lieutenant General 1
I will list my skill spec here, but only the ones that boost this build (no ground skills for example).

* Starship Energy Weapons: Starship Energy Weapons Training 7, Starship Beam Weapons 7, Starship Cannon Weapons 7, Starship Disruptor Weapons 9.
* Starship Projectile Weapons: Starship Projectile Weapons Training 7, Starship Mines 7, Starship Torpedo Weapons 7, Starship Photon Projectiles 9.
* Starship Engineering: Starship Engineering Training 7, Starship Warp Core Training 7, Starship Auxiliary Maintenance 7, Starship Engine Maintenance 7, Starship Shield Maintenance 7, Starship Weapon Maintenance 7, Starship Auxiliary Systems Efficiency 9, Starship Energy Weapons Efficiency 9, Starship Engine Efficiency 9, Starship Shield Efficiency 9, Starship Engine Performance 9, Starship Shield Performance 9, Starship Auxiliary Systems Performance 9, Starship Hull Repair 9, Starship Weapon Systems Performance 9.
* Starship Operations: Starship Operations Training 7, Starship Emitters 7, Starship Hazard System 9.
* KDF Training: Engineering Team Leader 7, Starship Attack Vectors 7, Starship Command 7, Heavy Warship Captain 7, Starship Combat Maneuvers 7, Starship Battle Strategy 9, Negh'var Battle Cruiser Captain 9.

Power Levels
I have found these power levels to be the most effective. These are base levels, before skills, equipment, and other factors are taken into account... I will list actual power level my ship has in parenthesis. Battle Cruisers naturally have a +10 power level boost to both Weapon and Engine systems. We use this to our advantage.

Weapons: 100 (124), Shields: 25 (57), Engines: 25 (62), Auxiliary: 50 (86).

Ship Equipment
Below I list every piece of equipment that is ideal to my play-style, you may wish to experiment.

* Forward Weapons: Photon Torpedo Launcher, Dual Disruptor Beam Bank, Disruptor Dual Heavy Cannons, Disruptor Dual Heavy Cannons.
* Rear Weapons: Tricobalt Device Launcher (Mine), Disruptor Turret, Disruptor Turret, Disruptor Turret.
* Deflector: Deflector Array with [EM] or [TB].
* Engines: Efficient Impulse Engines*.
* Shields: Covariant Shield Array with [CAP]x2 or [CAP]x3.
* Engineering Consoles: Neutronium Alloy, Neutronium Alloy, Booster Modulator, Booster Modulator.
* Science Consoles: Halon System, Halon System.
* Tactical Consoles: Disruptor Induction Coil, Disruptor Induction Coil, Disruptor Induction Coil.

Tactical Analysis
Auxiliary to Inertia Dampeners: The entire key that makes this build work is your two copies of this ability. When you initiate combat with the enemy, you should activate this power and always have it running. By chaining the two copies you have together there will only be a 5 second window where you won't have the bonuses.

Tractor Beam: Tractor Beam has many uses; keeping the enemy from running and allowing you to unload on their weak point. It is also easily broken by a number of things, you should keep this in mind and watch for them -- Attack Pattern Omega and Polarize Hull all will make your target immune to your Tractor Beam, but will not actually break your Tractor Beam. Jam Targeting Sensors and Photonic Shockwave will break your Tractor Beam. Tractor Beam is a solid DPS tool, not because it deals any substantial damage on its own but a rooted target has no speed defense at all meaning you (and others) will inflict heavy damage.

Eject Warp Plasma: There is a lot of interesting things you can do with this power, and combined with your superior maneuverability, makes utilizing Eject Warp Plasma much easier and more effective. Whenever an enemy is flying directly at you, release your plasma when they reach ~3km or less and it will very likely catch them. You can then use your exceptional turn rate to immediately whip around and unload on them. You can use this in conjunction with Tractor Beam also; either to pin a target in place so you can make an Eject Warp Plasma pass at them, or to make sure they can't get out of your Plasma with Hazard Emitters.

This is also when I use my Tricobalt Mine; I will drop it in my plasma trail when I am very close to the target... the Plasma makes a very good screen for hiding the mine and the target will usually be focused on trying to get out of the Plasma, instead of noticing your mine. By the time you whip around your Mine should be activating, and if it hits, will nail the target with a massive amount of Kinetic damage and possibly destroy them outright. However, the most fun part of the Tricobalt Mine is that if it hits a target it places a 10 second stun on them where they can only move and not use any powers -- and because they're trapped in the Plasma (and possibly your Tractor Beam), they're not going anywhere and is a prime target and sitting duck for you and anyone else for a whole ten seconds!

Efficient Impulse Engines: KDF Captains can earn this beauty from completing the mission "Second Star on the Right, Straight on 'til Morning". These are the perfect engines for this build because they provide a +5 power bonus to Weapons, Shields, and Auxiliary systems which is roughly equivalent to three Engineering consoles! Without those engines, our Weapon power would not nearly be capped and we would lose Auxiliary power. You may also wonder about Speed defense; but Auxiliary to Inertia Dampeners solves this problem for us... even with the slow Efficient Impulse Engines we will be Speed Defense capped!

Take it with a grain of salt, as I know not how old it may be or what may have changed in the meantime.

warmaker001b · July 2012

Both the Negh'var and Vor'cha are really nice cruisers. As you can tell by the BOFF and Console layouts, you can tell which part of defense or offense they slightly lean towards.

Klingon Cruisers tend to be more maneuverable than their Fed counterparts, and makes it alot more easy to bring weapons to bear on targets. The Vor'cha's 10 turn rate is the highest for any high tier cruiser in the game (correct me if I'm wrong, plz). The Negh'var is narrowly behind at 9.

The real question is if you want a slight difference in offense or defense. Offense, take the Vor'cha. Defense, take the Negh'var.

IMO, you really can't go wrong with either. A Vor'cha Refit is a rare sight these days at endgame, and I do miss seeing more of them. Hell, even the Negh'var is rare. But the Vor'cha was the backbone of the KDF cruiser force during the Dominion War, and you'd expect more of these things around.

dknight0001 · July 2012

I prefer the BOFF layout of the Vor'Cha.

That being said with the Negh'Var I'd consider an Aux to Battery Build with some Technicians to speed up recharges.

EPtS1 > Reverse Shield Polarity > Aceton Beam (PVE only) > Aux to SIF
EPtS1 > Aux to Bat > DEM
EPtW1

Rotate
EPtS1, A2B, EPtS1, EPtW1

damnedge · July 2012

bitemepwe wrote: »

Using 2 A2D abilities, mnay have made the Vorcha/Neghvar quite manuevarble in combat.

I would link the thread on the subject but it seems I no longer have it saved.

Here is a copy.
.....

Take it with a grain of salt, as I know not how old it may be or what may have changed in the meantime.

Damn I used this build on a Borty Command Cruiser 4/2/4 Eng/Sci/Tac console and though obviously a tad slower/less maneuverable than the Vorcha/Neghvar would be it simply rocks

I'm used to using a 2 tac team 2 epts build and keeping the shields up facing the enemy - taking the hits to the face as it were.

With a high maneuver build the enemy miss you so often and with the bonuses vs damage u can just soak the hits that do get to you.

Anothing I noticed with this build my cannon dps seemed to be double or better....than what I've been used to on the old builds...I'm only using 3 Tac boost consoles..:eek:

Thanks bitemepwe!

When someone says big ships are slow and unwieldy - they are doing it wrong!

fullybakedbear · July 2012

I took the Neggie as I wanted to go full out engineer tank and wanted a little more survivability. I really enjoyed it. I did eventually get a Bortasu War cruiser but it seems to perform similarly.

warmaker001b · July 2012

Because of this thread, I took my KDF engineer and acquired the Vor'Cha Refit. Honestly, I missed the ship since the game first came out. The handling of the Vor'Cha is ridiculously wonderful, though since the Negh'var is 1 point less, it can't be too bad.

The beauty of the traditional Klingon-designed Cruisers is that maneuverability. I surprised alot of Escorts in PVP when I can show that I can turn rather well and present 4 DHCs, 4 Turrets into their faces with a dose of CRF1 and tough shields.

The maneuverability, survivability, and firepower of the Vor'Cha and Negh'Var were refreshing to experience again. For "vanilla ships," they're superior to alot of other ships (premium or not). Both, IMO, have found a wonderful sweet spot in combining the 3 traits. Again, you can't go wrong with either, but I felt like I was cheating when I took up a Vor'Cha again since I haven't touched the type since Tier 4 so long ago.

Another wonderful thing I felt was that by flying around a Negh'Var or Vor'Cha, you're flying around canon Star Trek ships, shown from the actual TV shows. In these days of STO, both these ships are seriously underrepresented by KDF players.

lordcorrino · July 2012

I've been playing around with a DPS Vor'Cha for my Sci since Elite STF's are such a DPS chase.

So far here's my build.

Fore: 2 DHC, 1 DBB, 1 Quantum
Aft: 4 Turret
Full KHG set

Tac: 3 AP relays
Eng: 2 Mk XII blue RCS consoles, 2 neutroniums
Sci: 2 Field Generators

Eng. Comm: Acton III, AUD II, EPS II, EPS I
Eng. Lt. Comm: EWP I, EPW II, ET I
Sci. Lt.: ST II, PH I
Tac. Lt.: CRF I, THY I
Tac. Ens.: BO I

Turns almost like an escort. Thinking of replacing the DBB with another DHC and the BO with a TT. Need some more rare borg salvage to waste first.

warmaker001b · July 2012

lordcorrino wrote: »

I've been playing around with a DPS Vor'Cha for my Sci since Elite STF's are such a DPS chase.

So far here's my build.

Fore: 2 DHC, 1 DBB, 1 Quantum
Aft: 4 Turret
Full KHG set

Tac: 3 AP relays
Eng: 2 Mk XII blue RCS consoles, 2 neutroniums
Sci: 2 Field Generators

Eng. Comm: Acton III, AUD II, EPS II, EPS I
Eng. Lt. Comm: EWP I, EPW II, ET I
Sci. Lt.: ST II, PH I
Tac. Lt.: CRF I, THY I
Tac. Ens.: BO I

Turns almost like an escort. Thinking of replacing the DBB with another DHC and the BO with a TT. Need some more rare borg salvage to waste first.

The maneuverability of the Vor'Cha Refit is very good. It is the reason why I left off normal Cannons and Beam Arrays, or even Dual Beam Banks. Your ability to maneuver a Cruiser is second to none on this ship, and that is why I went with 4 DHCs up front. Getting into position for a close range cannon barrage is very doable in a Vor'Cha, and you can do Aux to Inertia Dampeners for even better mobility and turning rates.

I've surprised a number of Escorts by turning and presenting my front shields and forward weapons during their attempts to pursue me. If they want to trade shots, you can surprise the hell out of them

notapwefan · July 2012

thanks for all the suggestions guys

Vorcha retfit or Negh'var?

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