Since we are pretty much at war with the Romulans anyways, i dont see why we are sticking to a treaty that was supposed to ensure peace. escort only Cloaking engineering console would be sweet
It's the difference between highly tensioned border disputes (Fed vs Romulans) and war (Fed vs Klingons).
The Federation and Romulans are not in a state of open war - yet.
Then you haven't read any of the "A Time to..." novels. Nor the "Articles of Federation" novel by Keith R. A. Decandido.
If you read the Path to 2409 posts, you'll see a lot of information taken from those novels, and used in this game. Doesn't really qualify as "they pretty much ignored the novels" if you ask me.
Then you haven't read any of the "A Time to..." novels. Nor the "Articles of Federation" novel by Keith R. A. Decandido.
If you read the Path to 2409 posts, you'll see a lot of information taken from those novels, and used in this game. Doesn't really qualify as "they pretty much ignored the novels" if you ask me.
I have read A Time To..., skipped Articles. What was taken from A Time To?
That's why i said pretty much. Shoot on sight might as well be an open war
If it weren't for the fact that open war is so expensive (in materials and personnel, forget finances for a moment), and usually very unpopular, I'm pretty sure the Romulans would have declared war after a certain mission.
There really is no reason why the Feds shouldnt have a cloaking device.
1) The Federation is at war with BOTH the Klingon Empire and the Romulan Star Empire. Thus, the treaty of Algeron (sp) is mute.
2) Klingons can equipt Fed technology and weapons on their vessels. Wouldnt the door swing the opposite way as well?
3) In an era where Starfleet policy is shoot first and ask questions later, why would a simple treaty matter anyway?
4) Feds would have the technology to create a cloaking device, granted it may not be the most advanced due to the lack of 200+ years knowledge that the Romulnas would have. The Defiant NX-74205 was allowed to have one thanks to an agreement with the Romulans. It can be easliy asumed that the Feds spent alot of time reverse engineering the device.
5) Claoking on a Fed ship would be totally awsome!!!
There really is no reason why the Feds shouldnt have a cloaking device.
1) The Federation is at war with BOTH the Klingon Empire and the Romulan Star Empire. Thus, the treaty of Algeron (sp) is mute.
The Romulans and the Federation are not actually at war. If you read the mission text, you should know that relations are strained (to put it mildly), but the two are not actually at war.
The Romulans and the Federation are not actually at war. If you read the mission text, you should know that relations are strained (to put it mildly), but the two are not actually at war.
Correct, and they are trying their darndest to not be forced, into fighting a war on 5 fronts.
The only reason I foresee them being able to stick around so far, is that Cardassian, Dominon, Species 8472, and the Borg, are enemies to multiple factions, otherwise it'd have been crushed.
Romulans, whom have proven to be more than a match, for the Federation in terms of military might and technology, would be the straw that broke the camel's back.
The Romulans and the Federation are not actually at war. If you read the mission text, you should know that relations are strained (to put it mildly), but the two are not actually at war.
This, people seem fairly thick headed on the subject. The anti-cloak tech treaty was made with the ROMULANS who we are NOT currently at war with, there is alot of saber rattling on both sides but not war. There is even a mission where the romulans allow the feds into the zone to determin the cause of why the star went POP! only to be attacked by the Ramens (who are seemingly behind why the star exploded).
Several missions into the romulan side of the zone even state "Dont get caught or there will be war!"
seriously people, read your mission text instead of just blowing past it. You miss alot doing that.
Its *is* a time of war, but the Feds still like upholding their treaties, hell they upheld the Klingon one as long as they could..
I have read A Time To..., skipped Articles. What was taken from A Time To?
Uh...let's see...the Election of Nanietta Bacco as Federation President? Not to mention they have her serving for 3 terms as president before deciding to step down? I don't know, that might be something taken from the "A Time To..." series.
And the "Imperial Romulan State" they mention - That's from "Articles of Federation". I know there's more that they took from the different novels, but I'd have to read over the Path to 2409 again to double check.
Oh, there's also the fact that Tal'Aura, from Nemesis, was Praetor before she was murdered. That's from one of the novels as well.
You may have to re-read the "A Time To..." series of novels, and I mean all of them. As well as Articles of Federation, and any other novels that came thereafter.
This, people seem fairly thick headed on the subject. The anti-cloak tech treaty was made with the ROMULANS who we are NOT currently at war with, there is alot of saber rattling on both sides but not war. There is even a mission where the romulans allow the feds into the zone to determin the cause of why the star went POP! only to be attacked by the Ramens (who are seemingly behind why the star exploded).
Several missions into the romulan side of the zone even state "Dont get caught or there will be war!"
seriously people, read your mission text instead of just blowing past it. You miss alot doing that.
Its *is* a time of war, but the Feds still like upholding their treaties, hell they upheld the Klingon one as long as they could..
This. Exactly this. Bravo! Synthale? Romulan Ale? What's your pleasure?
Uh...let's see...the Election of Nanietta Bacco as Federation President? Not to mention they have her serving for 3 terms as president before deciding to step down? I don't know, that might be something taken from the "A Time To..." series.
And the "Imperial Romulan State" they mention - That's from "Articles of Federation". I know there's more that they took from the different novels, but I'd have to read over the Path to 2409 again to double check.
Oh, there's also the fact that Tal'Aura, from Nemesis, was Praetor before she was murdered. That's from one of the novels as well.
You may have to re-read the "A Time To..." series of novels, and I mean all of them. As well as Articles of Federation, and any other novels that came thereafter.
Well i wasnt talking about minor events like who the president is, but ok. ok. I take back part of what i said.
I'd re-read them but all but 2 were boring to high heaven. I only read them because i felt "obligated" . Some of the more recent books like Resistance, Before Dishonor, Greater than the Sum, Destiny x3, and Losing the Peace, now that was some good reading.
Last time I checked the Memory Alpha website, in regards to the Treaty of Algeron, it said just entering the Romulan Neutral Zone itself was to be considered an act of war. I'm going to take a stab in the dark here and guess that the Romulans haven't, allof the sudden, enacted an Open Border Policy with the Federation in regards to the massive number of ships in each others' space. If the same opponent attacks without provocation repeatedly, isn't a formal Declaration of War meaningless? The end result is just the same. On that token, the Federation already had cloaking technology in the form of the Holoship intended for use to transport the B'aku(sp?). Just my opinion there but a good discussion to read.
This is a game , so fed escorts should have cloaks , a opposing faction has them so should the fed faction.
OR take away the klingon cloaks from pvp.
Wait many would cry.......
Just so you.... The Klingon empire stole the Cloak desgin from the Romulans....
Actually this was lorelol from the movie makers.
As (final frontier?) but anyway, it was suppose to be a romulan bad guy, but it was changed to klingon and they kept the cloak, hence it from that point on it was now ok that klingons have cloak.
Someone around here is bound to know this one better then me as i only read it as reference somewhere so unsure about source here.
Some who can correct me or ?
Are you forgetting the Original Series?!? Kirk and Spock stole a cloaking device from the Romulans - so the original Enterprise could cloak. Jonatham Archer salvaged a Cloaking Suliban Shuttle and Commandeered it permanently onto his ship - and used it several times. In the Mirror Universe, ALL Federation Ships could Cloak (DS9 - after Quark and Rom stole Martok's from our universe and gave it to Mirror Worf!). Mirror Personnel-and-their-ships are ALLOWED in this game!
Federation Cloaking should be the exception - not the rule - and done by a 'Device' on the ship's slots. [like stolen Romulan Cloak, or Mirror Universe Cloak, Stolen Klingon Cloak). Maybe it should be a 'temporary' device that 'burns out' (like batteries - but with minutes of use). Cool...
Romulans are gimped with the loss of Romulus and should slowly turn into a third tier power like the Cardassians after the Dominion War. The treaty forbidding cloaks will hold valid as long as there' s a remant/successor... the Feds best hopes of being able to use their interphasic cloaks would be the complete destruction and evisceration of the remants of the Romulan Empire. Klingons take a pice, Feds take a piece, the remainder is reconstituted under a new government...
Then the Klingons would learn to phear the Interphasic FedBall. :eek:
I thought it was that the Romulans had cloak but no warp drives (only impulse).. The Klingons had warp drives but no cloak.. So they made a swap. Though I could be mistaken.
you must be eating a peanut butter cup as you typed this
You really can't count All Good Things as part of the argument as firstly it was a Q created universe for Picard, secondly, the Romulan Star Empire had been conquered by the Klingon Empire and so the treaty with the Romulans no longer existed. In STO the Star Empire is very much alive, just weakened and splintered into a few factions, Remans, Sela's Empire, Taris Group, the Romulan Colony connected to the Federation.
I say if you want a cloaking escort, either fork out the C-points for the retrofit Defiant with the useless console or go and play the Klingon Empire.
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I don't weant to enter the "should Feds have a cloak" argument but I want to add an important question to the discussion:
If Feds get the cloak and all Fed ships can cloak, what kind of gameplay will this lead to?
We will have fleets of cloaked ships unable to find the enemy without forfeiting their own cloak. If they can't see me and I can't see them, there will be no war. At the moment it is quite easy. We have cloaked Klingons preying on uncloaked Fedballs and Feds developing counter tactics (Fedballs)
With both sides cloaked... who is going to fire the first shot? Will we have to fly at a starbase to force the other side to decloak?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
To Borgly Go Webcomic - Season 1, Season 2, Season 3 Dei schware Pheisa Launzn trifft'n Robotazombiewiarfl und schlitzt eam fui auf. 50.000 Schodn, oida.
I don't weant to enter the "should Feds have a cloak" argument but I want to add an important question to the discussion:
If Feds get the cloak and all Fed ships can cloak, what kind of gameplay will this lead to?
We will have fleets of cloaked ships unable to find the enemy without forfeiting their own cloak. If they can't see me and I can't see them, there will be no war. At the moment it is quite easy. We have cloaked Klingons preying on uncloaked Fedballs and Feds developing counter tactics (Fedballs)
With both sides cloaked... who is going to fire the first shot? Will we have to fly at a starbase to force the other side to decloak?
By this logic, the Feds are essentially always forfeiting their own chances of victory by having a gross disadvantage; when a Klingon makes an attack they will have a stealth advantage for an alpha strike, whereas the Klingons will have a few hours to prepare for the Federation armada coming in.
There has to be more to it than this, otherwise the war would have been lost by the Feds long ago, or they might have been forced to develop cloak simply to survive and force a stalemate against the Romulans and the Klingons.
It's as simple as "Starfleet are the good guys. They don't go around with cloak and dagger tactics."
That's where there is no cloaking and there would be none in the future if another series was created that had a war going on between the Federation and the Klingons/Romulans.
Joined: January 2010
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Comments
It's the difference between highly tensioned border disputes (Fed vs Romulans) and war (Fed vs Klingons).
The Federation and Romulans are not in a state of open war - yet.
Then you haven't read any of the "A Time to..." novels. Nor the "Articles of Federation" novel by Keith R. A. Decandido.
If you read the Path to 2409 posts, you'll see a lot of information taken from those novels, and used in this game. Doesn't really qualify as "they pretty much ignored the novels" if you ask me.
I have read A Time To..., skipped Articles. What was taken from A Time To?
That's why i said pretty much. Shoot on sight might as well be an open war
If it weren't for the fact that open war is so expensive (in materials and personnel, forget finances for a moment), and usually very unpopular, I'm pretty sure the Romulans would have declared war after a certain mission.
And I wouldn't mind Fed's getting cloak. We're at war, and there are no rules in war.
if you want Klingon things , plz make a Klingon.
I see tons of posts asking for carriers or BO slots , now cloak , plz just make a klingon we sure could use the help.
1) The Federation is at war with BOTH the Klingon Empire and the Romulan Star Empire. Thus, the treaty of Algeron (sp) is mute.
2) Klingons can equipt Fed technology and weapons on their vessels. Wouldnt the door swing the opposite way as well?
3) In an era where Starfleet policy is shoot first and ask questions later, why would a simple treaty matter anyway?
4) Feds would have the technology to create a cloaking device, granted it may not be the most advanced due to the lack of 200+ years knowledge that the Romulnas would have. The Defiant NX-74205 was allowed to have one thanks to an agreement with the Romulans. It can be easliy asumed that the Feds spent alot of time reverse engineering the device.
5) Claoking on a Fed ship would be totally awsome!!!
The Romulans and the Federation are not actually at war. If you read the mission text, you should know that relations are strained (to put it mildly), but the two are not actually at war.
Correct, and they are trying their darndest to not be forced, into fighting a war on 5 fronts.
The only reason I foresee them being able to stick around so far, is that Cardassian, Dominon, Species 8472, and the Borg, are enemies to multiple factions, otherwise it'd have been crushed.
Romulans, whom have proven to be more than a match, for the Federation in terms of military might and technology, would be the straw that broke the camel's back.
this.
/10charfail
This, people seem fairly thick headed on the subject. The anti-cloak tech treaty was made with the ROMULANS who we are NOT currently at war with, there is alot of saber rattling on both sides but not war. There is even a mission where the romulans allow the feds into the zone to determin the cause of why the star went POP! only to be attacked by the Ramens (who are seemingly behind why the star exploded).
Several missions into the romulan side of the zone even state "Dont get caught or there will be war!"
seriously people, read your mission text instead of just blowing past it. You miss alot doing that.
Its *is* a time of war, but the Feds still like upholding their treaties, hell they upheld the Klingon one as long as they could..
And the "Imperial Romulan State" they mention - That's from "Articles of Federation". I know there's more that they took from the different novels, but I'd have to read over the Path to 2409 again to double check.
Oh, there's also the fact that Tal'Aura, from Nemesis, was Praetor before she was murdered. That's from one of the novels as well.
You may have to re-read the "A Time To..." series of novels, and I mean all of them. As well as Articles of Federation, and any other novels that came thereafter.
This. Exactly this. Bravo! Synthale? Romulan Ale? What's your pleasure?
Well i wasnt talking about minor events like who the president is, but ok. ok. I take back part of what i said.
I'd re-read them but all but 2 were boring to high heaven. I only read them because i felt "obligated" . Some of the more recent books like Resistance, Before Dishonor, Greater than the Sum, Destiny x3, and Losing the Peace, now that was some good reading.
OR take away the klingon cloaks from pvp.
Wait many would cry.......
Actually this was lorelol from the movie makers.
As (final frontier?) but anyway, it was suppose to be a romulan bad guy, but it was changed to klingon and they kept the cloak, hence it from that point on it was now ok that klingons have cloak.
Someone around here is bound to know this one better then me as i only read it as reference somewhere so unsure about source here.
Some who can correct me or ?
Federation Cloaking should be the exception - not the rule - and done by a 'Device' on the ship's slots. [like stolen Romulan Cloak, or Mirror Universe Cloak, Stolen Klingon Cloak). Maybe it should be a 'temporary' device that 'burns out' (like batteries - but with minutes of use). Cool...
Then the Klingons would learn to phear the Interphasic FedBall. :eek:
you must be eating a peanut butter cup as you typed this
This game kind of tells the story of why the Romulans are still a powerful foe.
Vornek@oberlerchner123 - Join Date: July 2008
I should proberly point out that there kinda is a rule against reviving topics this old.
But yeah, anyway. The "Tactial Escort - Retrofit" and the "Dreadnought Cruiser" both got cloaks. :cool:
Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
I say if you want a cloaking escort, either fork out the C-points for the retrofit Defiant with the useless console or go and play the Klingon Empire.
If Feds get the cloak and all Fed ships can cloak, what kind of gameplay will this lead to?
We will have fleets of cloaked ships unable to find the enemy without forfeiting their own cloak. If they can't see me and I can't see them, there will be no war. At the moment it is quite easy. We have cloaked Klingons preying on uncloaked Fedballs and Feds developing counter tactics (Fedballs)
With both sides cloaked... who is going to fire the first shot? Will we have to fly at a starbase to force the other side to decloak?
To Borgly Go Webcomic - Season 1, Season 2, Season 3
Dei schware Pheisa Launzn trifft'n Robotazombiewiarfl und schlitzt eam fui auf. 50.000 Schodn, oida.
By this logic, the Feds are essentially always forfeiting their own chances of victory by having a gross disadvantage; when a Klingon makes an attack they will have a stealth advantage for an alpha strike, whereas the Klingons will have a few hours to prepare for the Federation armada coming in.
There has to be more to it than this, otherwise the war would have been lost by the Feds long ago, or they might have been forced to develop cloak simply to survive and force a stalemate against the Romulans and the Klingons.
That's where there is no cloaking and there would be none in the future if another series was created that had a war going on between the Federation and the Klingons/Romulans.
Fanfiction! ZOMG! Read it now!
kate-wintersbite.deviantart.com/art/0x01-Treachery-293641403