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Runabout lockdown
dassemsto
Member Posts: 792 Arc User
So, I took a cruiser to a C&H map today... And in a quiet corner of the map, i was attacked by a Escort-carrier.
My cruiser is set up with 4 turrets and 3 single cannons, running scatter volley, with a TAC captain. It turned out, that the turrets alone could not pop the escort. The lone escort, ofc, could not pop me either.. me being in a cruiser after all. If I could just turn/reverse to get the escort in arc, but nooo...
At all times, he had 6 advanced runabouts out, and they took turns in tractoring me. This lead to me being locked in place, with the escort behind me, and no way of breaking the stalemate. And before you say so, yes, I tried killing the runabouts... but he just kept spamming new ones, and the new ones were popping out with TB off CD, and grabbed me.
Sure, I could have sacrificed one of my two sci slots for PH wich MAY have helped me a little, but sacrificing one heal would have lead to my death. I was a TAC captain after all.
Is this really intended? That one escort can disable another ship from any movement, indefinately.
This is so broken...
EDIT: and scatter volley was completley useless. The runabouts held 0.0 distance, so my turrets only fired at one runabout at a time, because of the narrov firing arc at 0 distance.
My cruiser is set up with 4 turrets and 3 single cannons, running scatter volley, with a TAC captain. It turned out, that the turrets alone could not pop the escort. The lone escort, ofc, could not pop me either.. me being in a cruiser after all. If I could just turn/reverse to get the escort in arc, but nooo...
At all times, he had 6 advanced runabouts out, and they took turns in tractoring me. This lead to me being locked in place, with the escort behind me, and no way of breaking the stalemate. And before you say so, yes, I tried killing the runabouts... but he just kept spamming new ones, and the new ones were popping out with TB off CD, and grabbed me.
Sure, I could have sacrificed one of my two sci slots for PH wich MAY have helped me a little, but sacrificing one heal would have lead to my death. I was a TAC captain after all.
Is this really intended? That one escort can disable another ship from any movement, indefinately.
This is so broken...
EDIT: and scatter volley was completley useless. The runabouts held 0.0 distance, so my turrets only fired at one runabout at a time, because of the narrov firing arc at 0 distance.
Post edited by dassemsto on
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Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Also this is why I try very hard not to run single barrels on anything anymore.
FAW3+Tac Buffs and warp plasma are your friends in that situation.
Second, you have a cruiser, so a ensign level sci heal should not be missed that much.
Third, you might have the wrong weapons on your ship. Turrets on a cruiser ... are not that useful. Using beam arrays is more helpful, especially if you add a fire at will boff power in the mix. That escort carrier can spawn 3 shuttles every 30 seconds with a good flight deck doff (45 seconds with out a doff), you can clear any and all of his pets every 30 seconds even with just fire at will 1. Do the math.
in regards to the warp plasma, not sure how well that would work on a sci odd healboat due to bo slots. would perhaps tbr or maybe some other spam clearing ability work? suggestions?
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First up afew things.
An escort carrier can only have FOUR(4) runabouts out a single time, max, period, end of story. Each hangar is limited to 2 launches, and each launch only launches 2 ships. Simple maths lead us to 2+2=4
Next up, crank your engine power, use a battery, and hit evasive. I'd suggest batt+evasive. Then hit CSV as you put distance on the runabouts.
Oh yeah runabouts generally orbit a stationary target at about 1-3k usually right around 2k with abit of variance either direction.
With both of the previous two mentioned things, you can combine this to CSV with all your turrets and either really damage or completely remove the runabouts.
Runabouts will only have chrons + single TB active outside of rare circumstances, simply have afew points of dampeners and high engine power will let you continue to move.
I'd really suggest EWP or a Theta console if you have serious issues with carriers. Use it proactively and run over the carrier with it asap the fighters will follow you through and the carriers redeploys will be stuck in it.
If you are getting fully locked down from a SINGLE hangar of runabouts, you have some serious issues or the runabouts had some amazing luck with chron procs.
TBR2 can do a pretty decent job. (as can GW1. actually imo GW1 is a little better at spam clearing on average for engies, and sci captains)
give up TSS and be left with EPtoS as the only shield heal? That wouldn't do.
give up HE? I'd be left useless, bleed to death from plasma and pengs, and get acetoned out of dps against the karfis. I'm a tac captain, so no captain abilities.
/notendofstory. He had 6 out, i had 15 minutes to count and recount, so i'm very sure about this... and there were noone else around... but they DID launch 2 at a time.
The advanced runabouts (i assume blue variety) have TB2, so it takes quite a bit to break out of it. I was not able to break out with my ship abilities...
Being a tac officer, I admit i use a lot of engi stations for damage purpose... may have to check out a teta console. Or just stay away from cruisers.
If I could get the cruiser to do that, I would own PvP!
I guess he had the right doff slotted, reducing launch time to 30sec. Each shuttle stays around for 45 sec. 6 shuttles at any time. And when I tried to kill the spam, using maybe 6-7 seconds per wave, every 30 seconds, maybe as high as 10, as I have switched off tab-targeting pets.
Just to think about how this efficient this is... You can keep your enemy's attention away from you 1/3 of the match. It's like having a Jam sensors ability with 30 sec CD, that dont break if you shoot at your opponent. This is just headshakingly unbalanced...
Some of the things they put in the game, I kind of wonder if we're actually intended to enjoy or if it's one of those things that's supposed to make us stronger through duress.
STO has helped me build 14 characters so far...
The damage output isn't too bad from most but the special powers pets have now are totally OP with MULTIPLE, tractor beams, target systems, chron procs, phaser procs, tachyon beams, Power Drain etc
I have the armitage, I'm not too bad in a regular escort maybe not top ten but not far away, with the armitage and the danubes though I have a massive advantage and as you say it very easy to lock down players , you can chuck in a couple of skills to help lock them down further, target engines and aux say or a tractor beam on your ship too, then just face them and silide back and forward to keep your defence up while thiers is -15 and you just blast down a shild facing.
Big problems are the shields and hull on most pets are too strong , danube hull is 18k !, klingon frigates 35k !, this makes them way to difficult to clear with crowd control skills and the respawn time is way too quick !
Fire at Will is too weak and misses all the time because the pets move too quick this skill should clear them better.:(
Torp spread and mines are that effective as they are shielded
Grav well is a bit weak.
Tractor repulsors better.
CPB and Photonic only works a bit with mutiple ships using
Plasma halps a bit but is too weak to kill them quick enough.
Cannon Scatter is the best at the moment but they are still a bit strong for this and often your escort can't turn to use it.
You can eaily set up a klingon team to with power drains, shield strips and system targeting that can stop you doing anything , you can't move, can't shoot , no shileds , no power , just die.:(
Fed Random-Sci Monte-Eng Monte Banks-Tac
Klingon Warfarin-Sci Gamble-Tac
Yup...
- the pets do too much CC.
- the pets are too hard to kill. Taking them out with aft turrets alone is slower than the spawnrate.
ofc, it's possible to build a ship specially for fighting pets, but with the current requirements for such a build you will NEVER win, as you will not be able to kill players. At best, you will be able to draw the match out a little.
And this is supposed to be PvP, not PvE!
The Klingons have got some better Pay 2 Win (acteon assimlators, plasmotic leach etc) and can build far more dangerous SPAM pet teams.
I've got a drain build Kar'Fi which is very very powerful in a team it's far more deadly than an armitage , pugging it's a little sqishies but still horrible powerful , it can disable your systems and will drain ALL your power so you can do nothing and have no shields :eek: and it has decent DPS so finishes people off very quick.
It also is the easiest ship to PvE in, you could solo infected Elite in it no bother as it totally diables NPCs, they can't move , or fire have noshields etc.
The armitage was a silly idea but it's not the problem the problem is pretty much all Pets are OP both Fed and Klingon
Fed Random-Sci Monte-Eng Monte Banks-Tac
Klingon Warfarin-Sci Gamble-Tac
Simple solution cryptic would never dream of doing would be to disable pets during PLAYER vs PLAYER. Armitage and atrox still have a versatile layout with LtC engy slots, and the Armitage has a special console. Isn't that enough to make them balanced for pvp without pet spam? Oh, same would go for kdf. Let's make it fun again!
Oh and reduce the nerf to sci! Not all the way back, but let's try scaling it back ~50%? Isn't a 1/3 resist (33%) enough? Maybe even give some extra resistance to abilities as well like extra insulators stats to engy fleet to make engineers a little more useful on a team, but cap the resistance to a total 50% with abilities added. I don't understand how cryptic can honestly think a 75% resistance to almost all the ablities of sci ships is balanced
and by "we", you talk on the behalf of the entire fed population...
Not sure what you mean here.
OP ships will always bring in revenue to cryptic which is why I said they wouldn't dare take away pets in pvp. Pvp'ers would stop buying them then. Then again, if pvp'er are less than 1% of the Sto population like gozer has stated, and only a fraction of that very small number buys carriers, the impact to sales really shouldn't be that big of a deal to them. After all, they stated that a total loss of pvp would barely even impact them.
As far as "fun" goes, I'm all for it. Pets do not =fun to me or most pvp players IMO.
I honestly do wish that the Danubes had been reduced to 1 per Launcher, like the BoP, gave them maybe an additional power (Such as EPtS 1 and/or Beam Overload) And up their damage slightly. While the Stalker Fighters should have been only 1 of, and made them much more like the BoP.
Just saying there are so many Small, spamable Pets on the Fed and KDF Side, why not instead make Stronger pets that can be deployed that are deployed in smaller quanities then what we have now.
Pets are fun to fiddle around with, but even before the Fed Carriers/Battle carriers, I always thought that Spaming high number of pets was a waste when some of the more durable Pets had better options. (BoP/Frigate)
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
of late, i find large amounts of advanced interceptors more problematic. whenever they swarm me my powerlevels go completely to hell, im chrono proced, and even if i have an opening to engine battery and evasive away they can keep up with me wile i run, guarantying further lock down wile that ugly battle carrier bears down on me with BO3 and duel heavy cannons.
ive never understood why more people don't use those, pet damage is so worthless i don't know why anyone wouldn't use pets that basically only befuddled. i wish those pets didn't exist though
That sounds terrible!
Seriously though, on the subject of clearing spam, I think cooldown reduction doffs might be worth consideration. Now I've been monkeying with these lately and I know that when you swing a hammer long enough everything starts to look like a nail, but one problem with the spam is that there's no point to clearing them when they just get replaced. Well, one thing my betters have imparted to me is thinking about rhythm and ability rotation in PvP. Often if you clear the spam you're at a point in your rotation where you have nothing left to deal with the carrier, especially with flight deck officers. Or FAW and EWP clears the first wave but you get overwhelmed by subsequent waves. So, maybe building for cd reductions could get ahead of the spam cycle?
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
apparently we're a competitive and gullible minority with money to burn...
I say let pets target NPC entities only. That way they will only be useful in pvp for fighting mines, heavy torps, photonic fleets and other pets.
I say 5 escape pods would be appropriate. With 5 crew deducted from oyur ship. And one of those escapepod jockeys should be a slotted Boff, leaving one boff station unmanned!!!!!!
"Runabout, use Tractor Beam!"
"Bird of Prey used Cannon fire! It's super effective!"
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huh, why does @redricky sound so familiar.... oh ya! its because i perfectly described one of your characters huh! :P
so far i have found you can fight the swarm, or you can fight the carrier. you don't have enough tactical powers or time on a cruiser, and you cant equip enough beam arrays on an escort before your build isn't viable anymore, to deal with both things well. you really cant win. i focus on killing players, and hoping theres some noob in a cruiser with FAW running as often as possible.
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