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There needs to be changes to the loot system
rabidredneck02
Member Posts: 53 Arc User
As it is now, the Need or Greed system is simply too easy for various wankers and I assume gold/credit farmers to exploit. The intent behind it is simple enough, people hit Need if the item in question would be a valuable upgrade for their character, such as a higher quality weapon, shield or ship system than what they have now. Greed is if the item would be nice to have, but not necessary and your willing to take your chances with other folks for it.
Greed has everyone who hits it into a general luck roll, whoever hits highest gets it. Need puts people who hit it into a seperate, roll from any other items. The huge problem with the system is there's no control over hitting need over greed other than group members being aware and be willing to call out anyone who abuses it.
My personal rule and I know it's shared by the vast majority of players is if you want to need something, ASK FIRST. It doesn't take long and you'd be suprised how many will say "Okay", it's just the polite thing to do, and people appreciate that. But the aforementioned wankers and punks out there don't bother with this and just need everything.
When they do this, they are cheating other players out of loot they shared the risks for. The problem is even worse in STF's since people are more focused on the mission than the loot, no one seems to notice or speak up when some punk sucks up every loot drop, including loot for bonus objectives.
There needs to be some means of ensuring everyone gets a fair chance at the loot, or at least make people think twice about hitting the need button. All I can think to suggest is..
1. Get rid of Need entirely. That way everyone can hit Greed knowing they have a fair chance at acquiring something or just hit pass if they don't want it and give others a better shot of getting it.
2. Hitting Need puts a cooldown timer on a set number of following loot drops. For instance you hit Need on a Phaser Array you are automatically Passed on 2 or three following loot drops wherin you do not get to roll on anything. This way, for instance if a STF bonus objective has three loot items at most one can be Needed and the other items are up for grabs, and the person hitting Need can't roll for the next few drops. This would force them to think first before hitting the button.
I hope other people Join in with ideas of their own for better control of the loot system. As I said earlier, right now the only control is in people paying attention to the loot roll notices and calling out and kicking out of groups people who are abusing the system.
Greed has everyone who hits it into a general luck roll, whoever hits highest gets it. Need puts people who hit it into a seperate, roll from any other items. The huge problem with the system is there's no control over hitting need over greed other than group members being aware and be willing to call out anyone who abuses it.
My personal rule and I know it's shared by the vast majority of players is if you want to need something, ASK FIRST. It doesn't take long and you'd be suprised how many will say "Okay", it's just the polite thing to do, and people appreciate that. But the aforementioned wankers and punks out there don't bother with this and just need everything.
When they do this, they are cheating other players out of loot they shared the risks for. The problem is even worse in STF's since people are more focused on the mission than the loot, no one seems to notice or speak up when some punk sucks up every loot drop, including loot for bonus objectives.
There needs to be some means of ensuring everyone gets a fair chance at the loot, or at least make people think twice about hitting the need button. All I can think to suggest is..
1. Get rid of Need entirely. That way everyone can hit Greed knowing they have a fair chance at acquiring something or just hit pass if they don't want it and give others a better shot of getting it.
2. Hitting Need puts a cooldown timer on a set number of following loot drops. For instance you hit Need on a Phaser Array you are automatically Passed on 2 or three following loot drops wherin you do not get to roll on anything. This way, for instance if a STF bonus objective has three loot items at most one can be Needed and the other items are up for grabs, and the person hitting Need can't roll for the next few drops. This would force them to think first before hitting the button.
I hope other people Join in with ideas of their own for better control of the loot system. As I said earlier, right now the only control is in people paying attention to the loot roll notices and calling out and kicking out of groups people who are abusing the system.
Post edited by rabidredneck02 on
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Comments
I have never been asked about need/greed in a STF. I don;t know about other folks but I know any time i see someone speaking for the majority on a forum, usually they're not. (And on some forums I spend time on, that's an infraction for the same reason.)
Are you sure about how you define need and greed when it comes to rolls? My understanding is that need gets the random roll first while Greed only gets rolled if there are no need selected. I know we've talked about this a couple of times and I could have sworn that that was how it was explained each time.
I don;t think there's any cheating going on. As you state, all players are supposed to be sharing the risk involved. If that's correct, all players should have an equal chance of getting the loot. What you may need for your ship, another player may need the credits that that item will sell for.
And to be honest, 90% of the drops aren't all that special anyway. I know the last stf I did, everything was mark 10 and worthless to me. I got two items and sold both of them.
Otherwise fleet/friends/private STF's Ill go with the flow and need what I need and greed the rest.
I do agree tho should take the need roll out of the equation and just roll for loot.
I agree it's frustrating in PUG games, but I really would like to keep the Need/Greed system for private matches. Never have problems when we run fleets STFs and it would be a shame to lose them because of the morons in PUGs.
It's really quite simple. When you're playing an STF with the public, wait to be the last person to vote for the first 2 drops and see what everyone else is doing. If you have people needing everything then just need everything. If people are being decent and honourable then greed along with them. It's not hard!
Kirk's Protege.
It doesn't bother me at all that you hit need on the last 10 things I passed on and that you did again on the thing I wanted because I'm not paying any attention to the who did what or got what text. Stop staring at who got what and kill stuff. If it is purple, edc, rbs, or tech expect people to need on it, and hit need yourself.
Dec/2008
This has never been acceptable behavior, and certainly not how the original MMORPGs established the code of conduct for loot drops. OP was correct.
The system is also better known as NBG, Need Before Greed, people whom actually need the items comes before people whom want it for greed, and selling it on the market afterwards is greed, full stop period.
I realize times have changed however, and more selfish and greedy people have been introduced to the genre, without means to police them via the community it self. People whom ninja looted were shunned and outcast from groups and black listed, but that was in the time of subscriptions and much smaller tight nit communities where everyone knew everyone, and it doesn't work the same way in the F2P disposable account communities.
An additional option is to get rid of the roll system entirely, and make drops personalized. e.g. the system automatically rewards drops to players, independent of each other. That eliminates any potential arguing over drops entirely, it also shifts the focus away from constantly having to click a popup every few seconds, and back to where it should be, on to the game it self and the action at hand.
Another is thresholds for loot drops. Via the Team options there could be settings for each Item Rarity, say
Common = Need, Greed, Pass enabled
Uncommon = Greed, Pass Enabled
Rare = Greed enabled (No choices, automatic greed rolled for everyone)
Very Rare = Greed Enabled (No choices, automatic greed rolled for everyone)
This way players could customize the team roll settings to their choice and moral codex.
This is an inherent deeply rooted problem in the Loot Drops/Crafting/Item Acquisition that is a much bigger issue that needs to be tackled separately.
Truth, on all counts.
I don't pay attention to who rolled what, either. I focus on the task at hand, not following the rolls, especially given the high amount of loot we get... if you stare at the rolls, that's all you'll do all game.
A lootpool system works fine with only 2 buttons, as indeed it did in the olden days of MMOs (talking pre-WoW, here - it's quite lulzy to see people refer to WoW as "old MMOs").
The addition of a greed button only fosters completely unwarranted drama and adds no functionality whatsoever.
Personally, I ignore that button. It's need or pass. Unless I misclick, which, sadly, has happened.
since we are on the topic of loot, can we please have the lock boxes changed to common drops so i dont have to watch the left half of my screen fill up with asking me if i want them or not, im obviusly going to say no all the time so either just stay in space or fill up my hold and ill re-pro them later.
The real problem isn't with the Need/Greed dichotomy, it's that items that shouldn't be rolled for, are, and there's no AFK penalty so Chinese gold farmers can just idle at spawn and roll when necessary.
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