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Elite difficulty respawn multiplier
supergaminggeek
Member Posts: 616 Arc User
That respawn timer for Elite missions is a negative impact on all of us. Borg can shot web faster than anyone can enter cover. I can see how it might be incentive to be more careful, but it is really hurting us all. Once we die, 15 seconds is ok, but every time you die, and I don't know when it goes down, but it stacks by 15 seconds to 2 minutes!
I spent 2 minutes in dead mode trying to kill Rebecca Simmons! I could do nothing but cheer on the medic until she died. No Overwatch, Target Optics, Rally Cry, or Tactical Initiative! Worst yet, no Strike Team.
I spent 2 minutes in dead mode trying to kill Rebecca Simmons! I could do nothing but cheer on the medic until she died. No Overwatch, Target Optics, Rally Cry, or Tactical Initiative! Worst yet, no Strike Team.
Post edited by supergaminggeek on
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If only the stability of our connections were under our own control...
If you die that often, your built and your gameplay are flawed beyond any simple fixing. In that case elites are just not made for you.
If it is too hard, go normal and read a guide how to build and use your class and ship.
Obviously you are doing something terribly wrong.
if you have lag issues and die because of that...well, change your internet provider.
1. Rezzing does not work in space.
2. The high-end cap on the respawn timer impacts a team's ability to complete an optional objective in a reasonable amount of time.*
3. The high-end cap on the respawn timer can result in a failure for missions that require active participation to prevent said failure. Like having too few ships to stop probes from escaping in Khitomer Accord Space, or defending the I.K.S. Kang from enemy ships in Cure Space. Try taking on a Tactical Cube in an escort with just one ally while the other three are waiting for their elongated timers** (and please don't say you personally can tank anything with no sweat; devs must make systems that account for the average player, in a PuG, not just Admiral Awesome McGodBuild )
4. The respawn timer takes the player out of the game. As has been said, some people, if they are unfortunate enough to wait that long, just go read something somewhere else. When your game mechanic in an active participation event is actually coaxing people to go browse Reddit instead of play your game, something is wrong.
5. The respawn timer is an added punishment on top of a system that already works well enough and has a credible in-universe explanation for its existence: The Injury system. And in cases of stacking injuries decreasing combat effectiveness combined with an artificial handicap of withheld players, it can severely impact team cohesiveness, lead to strained feelings and ragequits.
6. The respawn timer does not forgive in instances where there has been a systems fault resulting in player death, such as invisible/superdamage torpedoes or the very recently patched damage balance values for Assimilated Klingon vessels in Cure Space.
These are the primary complaints leveled against the timer as far as I have seen and just the ones I can think of off the bat.
* Though if the team has players who are being KO'd repeatedly or en masse, then it is probably wiser to give up on trying for the optional with that team anyway.
** Of course, a sensible idea would be to not attempt it and to wait until your teammates are let out of their penalty box.
The Artist Formerly Known As Nikotaka ][ Join Date: Jan 2010
"Can anyone remember when we used to be explorers...?"
Rebecca Simmons isn't in space. If you repeatedly die in space, you're doing it wrong. (Particularly now negh'vars don't one shot like they used to...that could be fun on a bad day.)
Are you saying a team that repeatedly dies should be able to get the optional objective?
First, teams are supposed to be able to fail cure. Although the fact of the matter is, NOTHING in cure space should be attacking those defending the kang. If they are, you've already screwed up.
Second, you cannot fail any mission during the part where you are fighting a tactical cube. And yea, I can tank a tactical cube in a tac/escort for quite a while, and indefinitely in my eng/escort. That's without anyone healing me.
If you find elites too hard and die a lot, then maybe you should go back to normal and work on your build?
You say unfortunate as if it was nothing to do with them or their team that they repeatedly died.
It was. Don't like dying that much? Play normal. The respawn timer does an important job. Previous to it, I would kill cubes faster on my tac escort by just suiciding against their heavy (well, on my tac/bop; my fed tac escorts just tank the heavy plasma torps too).
It shouldn't be a good strategy to repeatedly suicide, and now it isn't.
Injury system doesn't do anything. At all. I totally ignore it, aside from the annoyance of needing to make sure I have components on all my toons. It has no gameplay impact, because you just repair while waiting for respawn.
See above for how the old system didn't discourage suiciding.
It happens. But it rarely happens repeatedly. Invisible torps are annoying, but a lot less so than invisicrit torps one of hit death regardless of anything. :P
(Also, pretty much every patch change I've seen has been to reduce damage, not increase it. So that point's pretty invalid IMO.)
And yet the timer exists in space. You cannot pick and choose your arena for introducing a system that can be worked around in one (ground) but not in the other (space). Surely you know this.
You seem to have missed my Asterisk. In fact, you missed both of them. Go back and read my post at the verrrrry bottom that you failed to quote in your breakdown before you insinuate.
The enemies will fire on you when they reach the Kang. If you actually took the time to read instead of skimming my post for things to rebut, you'd notice that Kang/Probe active combat to avoid a failure, and attacking a Tactical Cube in Infected, were separated out as different situations. Simple reading comprehension skills can easily detect the difference and if you're half as experienced in STFs as you claim, you'll know the different scenarios. I'd like to think you are though, so it's just an understandable oversight.
But then you were probably too eager to jump to your assumption about the build of a person you've never met.
Yup. It is unfortunate. Your typical veteran of team-based combat knows that they need a team to accomplish much of anything and it's usually the blowhards trying to impress others who say otherwise. Since you ignored the whole point of that paragraph I'll simply reiterate: When your active participation game mechanic results in someone going elsewhere to wait it out instead of playing your game, something is wrong.
And this is your response to a focus on the impact of the Injury system to the average player? Admiral McGodBuild, I'm beginning to think you'd be a somewhat skewed game designer. ...This is where you inform us that you've designed games too, right?
On that first point, I certainly agree; they are darned annoying. A 120,000 damage plasma torp took down a cruiser friend of mine and it was a cringe-worthy thing to see.
And even the second I'd agree to, to a point! The damage has been rolled back and Gozer claims that the ability to crit has been removed, that he's done all he can and that fixing the other issues lies with Systems. However, you're simply relating to terms of now. The respawn timer has been in play for months and in that time people have fallen prey to hyperdamage, and even now, still get oneshot by invisible torpedoes from tac cubes and gateways. Poor Birds of Prey and their paper hulls...
If I read your tone for others correctly, it is largely one of 'Pwn or GTFO of Elites'. This is fine, even though it has nothing to do with your original question. I'm not going to judge that. Though your original question that started this asked about how the respawn timer affects a fight.
I gave you and anyone else who wondered the same six wholly viable reasons of how the timer impacts STFs.
As nobody ever backs down from these things, I'll leave it at that.
The Artist Formerly Known As Nikotaka ][ Join Date: Jan 2010
"Can anyone remember when we used to be explorers...?"
Dying in space is because your team screwed up.
Dying on the ground is, depending on team composition, just something that's sometimes going to happen.
You also missed the point that I was responding to the OP, who gave an example of the IG boss fight, a fight which is totally unaffected by the respawn timer.
Okay, so you made a footnote that says that your own arguments are inapplicable. Why make the arguments if you know they don't work?
You clearly don't have a clue how to do CSE so, I'll let you in on a secret.
You kill the stuff before it gets within range of the kang. One escort (any profession) can do all three waves of BoPs pretty easily. Tac/escort could drop a wave of raptors in sub-15 seconds with an alpha strike, even before they got nerfed. So, as I said, if they are attacking you, you've already screwed up, as they've already fired on the kang.
You said you could fail the mission on infected against the tactical cube. You can't. You can fail the optional, sure, but the optional is there to promote good play (in theory). Saying a bad team can't get the optional is not an argument against something. It's praise.
Of course something is wrong. A hell of a lot is wrong with STFs. Establishing something is wrong isn't useful. You need to establish that it is more wrong than the alternative, and that's where I disagree with you.
I like the respawn timer, it actually makes me pay attention and fight properly instead of lazily using heavy plasma torps to blow up cubes, etc.
The injury system is an appallingly badly designed system. I'm not sure what it's actually meant to achieve. All it does is add an annoyance of having to repair each time, or penalises players who don't know that it's there. I'd remove the system, in favour of the respawn timer penalty that actually does something.
No, but now you ask...yea, effectively.
Spike kinetic damage is lazy and bad design. It's a crappy way to make the game 'harder'. I'd tone down the spike damage significantly, and move the emphasis to more sustained damage (which might promote cross healing too, if people didn't feel the need to keep their heals just in case they get targeted and might get two shotted).
Dying to spike damage of doom just flat out feels unfair and unfun, which adds to the feeling of being punished by the respawn timer for something they don't see as their fault. (Prevention is the best form of defence - keep shield facing up, TT, EPtS, and you'll probably be alright, be it is hard to see that when you just suddenly see your hull get one shotted.)
Not quite, but if you are repeatedly dying in space STFs, you probably shouldn't be in them. Elites are already very accessible, to the point of being far too easy as end game content. I'd like to see a higher level of difficulty above elite STFs, which'd maybe just give more dilithium or something (I'd so go for that, and hopefully it wouldn't create whining about how people would have to do it for gear).
Anyway, even though I disagree with your viewpoint, it is good to have discussion on it, thank you.
i have to agree here. If you die constantly, you are doing much wrong. Also the elite content is too easy at a certain point.
more sustained dmg, without the high kinetic crits would certainly encourage cross healing, and would probably favour more science vessels and support cruisers in PVE.
Also i would be in favour to bring back the old STF's as a above elite mode. Not more difficult, but maybe longer. Combining ground and space again, making them a 1 hour experiance at least, and maybe with a daily quest attached, that would reward prototype salvage with a chance of getting prototype tech.
Or a daily for the existing elites...like getting all 3 bonus objectives in space and another one for the 3 ground ones, which would reward prototype tech and salvage.
A daily attached to the STF's would certainly respark my motivation to do STF's.