Federation Ship Build Guide

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• carbongrip Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  June 2012 edited June 2012

  More Builds coming soon!

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• rayezilla Member Posts: 139 Arc User

  June 2012 edited June 2012

  you may want to mention that these are PVP layouts, obviously Phasers are worthless in PVE.
  
  I'm not really following you on the assault cruiser build either: Why '4' torpedoes?? Why 3 borg pieces? The 3-set borg set bonus triggers 10% of the time when a shield facing is reduced below 20%. That's way to unreliable. It would be much better to take the MACO MK12 deflector to get the 2-set MACO bonus and the additional HP that the MACO deflector grants.

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• carbongrip Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  June 2012 edited June 2012

  rayezilla wrote: »

  you may want to mention that these are PVP layouts, obviously Phasers are worthless in PVE.
  
  I'm not really following you on the assault cruiser build either: Why '4' torpedoes?? Why 3 borg pieces? The 3-set borg set bonus triggers 10% of the time when a shield facing is reduced below 20%. That's way to unreliable. It would be much better to take the MACO MK12 deflector to get the 2-set MACO bonus and the additional HP that the MACO deflector grants.

  
  This is a work in progress but I have to disagree, this build works in all types of combat just fine. I always use these builds and they work fine. The game is designed to work with any load out in all types of game play:eek:

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• rayezilla Member Posts: 139 Arc User

  June 2012 edited June 2012

  Phasers have no proc or benefit in STFs: They do not disable borg subsystems. That makes them mathematically worse than everything in PVE: even plasma weapons would be better to take to an STF than phasers.
  
  Of course, the phaser 'does' work amazingly in PVP, and plasma weapons are totally useless in PVP... but if you're trying to imply that a build using phasers is in any way 'optimal' for STFs, you are incorrect and misleading your readers.

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• carbongrip Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  June 2012 edited June 2012

  rayezilla wrote: »

  Phasers have no proc or benefit in STFs: They do not disable borg subsystems. That makes them mathematically worse than everything in PVE: even plasma weapons would be better to take to an STF than phasers.
  
  Of course, the phaser 'does' work amazingly in PVP, and plasma weapons are totally useless in PVP... but if you're trying to imply that a build using phasers is in any way 'optimal' for STFs, you are incorrect and misleading your readers.

  
  They do work fine just they may not have Borg perfection:biggrin:

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• marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  June 2012 edited June 2012

  My Assault cruiser build is similar, but uses 7 beam arrays and 1 quantum instead. I use phasers for pvp and antiproton for pve on it though.
  
  
  You should run full power to weapons and 50 to shields, and just switch to a defensive power setting with 100 to shields only when you need to, then switch back.
  Also a power setting with 75 to shields and 75 to aux is good when you are healing people.
  
  
  Boff layout is:
  
  Lt Tac- TT1, and BO2 or FAW2
  Ensign Tac- TT1
  
  Commander Eng- EPTS1 ET2 RSP2 RSP3
  LTC Eng- EPTS1 DEM2 Aux2S2
  
  
  Lt Sci-HE1 TSS2
  
  Use 3 pc borg and Maco shields with same consoles, it tanks pretty good, heals teamates good, and its broadside hits a lot harder then the 4 beam build. Torp spread used against bbig slow targets or to finish off people when chasing them.

  Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions

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• rayezilla Member Posts: 139 Arc User

  June 2012 edited June 2012

  I will agree that some people prefer phasers because they are cannon. In fact, I was quite upset to learn that phasers were inferior PVE weapons... thanks devs I eventually got used to my lovely red doom AP beams. I'll agree to disagree on this point.
  
  
  Moving on, I still have no idea why you'd put 4 torpedoes on a beam array build. I could see 1 front 1 back, that would help with your beam power, but with 4, the torpedoes will put each other on cooldown so you'd have to constantly swing around.

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• marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  June 2012 edited June 2012

  Phasers are slightly less useful in PVE but its not all that big of a deal just because the proc wont work on borg other procs dont work to good on them either, and AP only very slightly increases damage. If you are getting a first set of [Borg] weapons and want to use them for pve and pvp i would still go with the phasers and wait until you save up eneough prototype salvage to get a set of antiproton weapons for STFs

  Tala -KDF Tac- House of Beautiful Orions

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• carbongrip Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  June 2012 edited June 2012

  marc8219 wrote: »

  Phasers are slightly less useful in PVE but its not all that big of a deal just because the proc wont work on borg other procs dont work to good on them either, and AP only very slightly increases damage. If you are getting a first set of [Borg] weapons and want to use them for pve and pvp i would still go with the phasers and wait until you save up eneough prototype salvage to get a set of antiproton weapons for STFs

  
  Exactly, this is what I have been trying to say. Also pve is not hard so you can use any build with a good captain behind the helm.

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• rayezilla Member Posts: 139 Arc User

  June 2012 edited June 2012

  carbongrip wrote: »

  Also pve is not hard so you can use any build with a good captain behind the helm.

  
  >.<
  
  @marc8219, that is quite close to the setup that I run on my scioddy tank. I run the engineer slots like this, though:
  
  Commander Eng- EPTS1 ES1 RSP2 Aux2SIF
  LTC Eng- EPTS1 RSP1 Aceton Beam 1

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• synkr0nized Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  June 2012 edited June 2012

  rayezilla wrote: »

  Phasers have no proc or benefit in STFs: They do not disable borg subsystems. That makes them mathematically worse than everything in PVE: even plasma weapons would be better to take to an STF than phasers.

  
  So when I randomly stop probes dead in their tracks in KASE or temporarily see the shields drop on a sphere or whatever that's not the phasers?
  
  I'm only contending you're "no proc or benefit" claim.
  
  
  
  You should always take the prettiest beams, though, regardless. *nod*

  _______
  equal parts cynical and helpful

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• rayezilla Member Posts: 139 Arc User

  June 2012 edited June 2012

  synkr0nized wrote: »

  So when I randomly stop probes dead in their tracks in KASE or temporarily see the shields drop on a sphere or whatever that's not the phasers?
  
  I'm only contending you're "no proc or benefit" claim.
  
  
  You should always take the prettiest beams, though, regardless. *nod*

  
  Hmm, I heard this from some fleetmates... I'll do some research to confirm.

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• carbongrip Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  June 2012 edited June 2012

  Hey everyone found and tested a good new improvement and have update all the builds with it. What changed is a fore torpedo is now a dual beam bank for extra shield damage.
  
  Also keep watching this thread for new builds for escorts and science vessels. :biggrin:

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• vicwuff Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  June 2012 edited June 2012

  I want to know where you people are getting the math to back up the idea that the AP weapons are better than phaser. The STF ones, apart from the phaser proc, are identical in every way.

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• bludagger Member Posts: 118 Arc User

  June 2012 edited June 2012

  rayezilla wrote: »

  Phasers have no proc or benefit in STFs: They do not disable borg subsystems. That makes them mathematically worse than everything in PVE: even plasma weapons would be better to take to an STF than phasers.
  
  Of course, the phaser 'does' work amazingly in PVP, and plasma weapons are totally useless in PVP... but if you're trying to imply that a build using phasers is in any way 'optimal' for STFs, you are incorrect and misleading your readers.

  
  That is incorrect neighbor. you will find that the phaser proc does disable borg subsystems. I have battled cubes, spheres, and probes all shut down on engines, firing, losing a shield when I was shooting at them with my escort, using nothing but Phaser DHC and DC, with no targetting systems.
  
  On checking on them i find they have the debuff of target subsystem on them as if I hit them with a BO skill. I have reproduce this many times.
  
  Now where by game design it is SUPPOSE to do that is a different topic, all I am saying is for the past bit and right now, it is allowing this to happen.

  [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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• vicwuff Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  June 2012 edited June 2012

  bludagger wrote: »

  That is incorrect neighbor. you will find that the phaser proc does disable borg subsystems. I have battled cubes, spheres, and probes all shut down on engines, firing, losing a shield when I was shooting at them with my escort, using nothing but Phaser DHC and DC, with no targetting systems.
  
  On checking on them i find they have the debuff of target subsystem on them as if I hit them with a BO skill. I have reproduce this many times.
  
  Now where by game design it is SUPPOSE to do that is a different topic, all I am saying is for the past bit and right now, it is allowing this to happen.

  
  Yeah, also considering that nowhere have I read that the phaser proc isn't supposed to work on borg. I'd like to know where these people are getting this idea.

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• albinoeatpod Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  June 2012 edited June 2012

  I've seen the phaser proc activate on STFs as recently as yesterday, so they definitely do work.

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• rayezilla Member Posts: 139 Arc User

  June 2012 edited June 2012

  Hmmm, I appear to have been misinformed. However you will find that the phaser proc increases TTK only as long as the enemy has shields, putting it squarely in the same category as tetryon weapons and polaron for STFs. These weapons have a minimal TTK effect.
  
  Disruptors and antiproton have the largest ttk effect in pve, mathematically, but it isn't only about time to kill. I accept that phaser weapons are usable in pve. Thank you for the enlightening conversation.

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• vicwuff Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  June 2012 edited June 2012

  rayezilla wrote: »

  Hmmm, I appear to have been misinformed. However you will find that the phaser proc increases TTK only as long as the enemy has shields, putting it squarely in the same category as tetryon weapons and polaron for STFs. These weapons have a minimal TTK effect.
  
  Disruptors and antiproton have the largest ttk effect in pve, mathematically, but it isn't only about time to kill. I accept that phaser weapons are usable in pve. Thank you for the enlightening conversation.

  
  And you show no math to back up this assertion.
  
  The ONLY difference between photon and AP (because I'm looking at them right this second) is:
  Photon 10% crit damage bonus
  AP 30 crit damage bonus
  
  These are not the same values and I don't feel like buying them to see the exact change to my crit damage severity percentage but since I focused on increased power settings instead of energy weapon specialization crits don't ****ing matter to me and won't to the vast majority of players who for whatever reason don't have massive crit rates, I have 3.4% crit so there is no benefit by using AP.

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• bludagger Member Posts: 118 Arc User

  June 2012 edited June 2012

  rayezilla wrote: »

  Hmmm, I appear to have been misinformed. However you will find that the phaser proc increases TTK only as long as the enemy has shields, putting it squarely in the same category as tetryon weapons and polaron for STFs. These weapons have a minimal TTK effect.
  
  Disruptors and antiproton have the largest ttk effect in pve, mathematically, but it isn't only about time to kill. I accept that phaser weapons are usable in pve. Thank you for the enlightening conversation.

  
  Please provide facts of these statements.
  
  Weapons are the same, save for Anti-proton which gets a small crit spike, but in truth unless you SPEC/BUILD to that, as with any weapon system you do not get the full advantage of it. You can make any weapon system eat through a hull quickly if you spec into it properly.
  
  No one weapon is better then the next currently if any ship losses it shields and you are hitting a bare hull in pve or in pvp, save for plasma which the borg have a natural 15% resistance to, if the captain of that ship has done their homework and has all the proper skills. If you loose your shields, especially in pvp, you probably will not last but seconds.
  
  The phaser proc still works on vessels without shields, shutting down engines, weapons, and auxillary which directly affects healing and recovery powers. Reviewing logs from last night STF run on the MourneBlade, the phaser proc was still activating on the elite cube, with shields down.
  
  I got off the phone with my friend who ran some STF with me last night. My damage vs my friend who runs anti-proton in the very same exact settings, weapons and type (Mk XII) and ship I have actually was out-damaged by me by 12,345 points in the ISE. The next STF instance we run, he out-damaged me 10,985 points CSE. He did not run the KASE with me so there is no comparison.

  [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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• carbongrip Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  June 2012 edited June 2012

  vicwuff wrote: »

  I want to know where you people are getting the math to back up the idea that the AP weapons are better than phaser. The STF ones, apart from the phaser proc, are identical in every way.

  
  Yep, that even goes for all the STF weapons. Some good advice is to just pick the ones you like the most. :rolleyes:
  

  albinoeatpod wrote: »

  I've seen the phaser proc activate on STFs as recently as yesterday, so they definitely do work.

  
  Yes same here, I have almost always used phasers in STFs :biggrin:
  

  vicwuff wrote: »

  And you show no math to back up this assertion.
  
  The ONLY difference between photon and AP (because I'm looking at them right this second)
  Photon 10% crit damage bonus
  AP 30 crit damage bonus

  
  Dont see where you are going with this, photons? If you mean phaser and anti protons yes one has better critical but criticals are just as good as the other proc's in my opinion.

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• helmsmn2 Member Posts: 34 Arc User

  June 2012 edited June 2012

  I have question regarding the OP's torp layout, as I seldom use more than one torp launcher unless one is fore and the other aft: if multiple launchers of the same type are placed together, they share a CD and will only fire one at a time, correct? So isn't it more advantageous to use different types such as a quantum and a photon?

  [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Cleverly disguised as myself - Helmsmn2

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• rayezilla Member Posts: 139 Arc User

  June 2012 edited June 2012

  Perhaps I'm assuming that you are all more informed than you are. Let me get a few background facts down:
  
  Phaser: 2.5% chance to disable a random subsystem
  Disruptor: 2.5% chance to lower the targets hull damage resistance by 10% for 15 sec
  Plasma: 2.5% chance to apply a non-stacking damage-over-time debuff
  Polaron: 2.5% chance to reduce all enemy subsystem power levels by 25
  Tetryon: 2.5% chance to deal additional shield damage
  Antiproton: 20% increased critical severity
  
  These can be roughly grouped into two kinds of weapons:
  
  Weapons that affect shield and/or weapon systems: Tetryon, Polaron, Phaser.
  
  Weapons that increase hull damage: Antiproton, Disruptor, Plasma.
  
  Are we all in agreement so far? So, to continue a little further, there are three primary kinds of combat that we can currently engage in: PVP, STF PVE and non STF PVE. I'm going to discard non-stf PVE as a consideration because it is trivial at level cap.
  
  So here is my assumption: In PVP, the first weapon category (shield/weapon system affecting weapons) are the optimal weapons, with the second category(barring Plasma weapons) being very close behind.
  
  In PVE, the second category (barring Plasma weapons) is optimal for the lowest Time To Kill, specifically because the majority of borg damage is Hull damage.
  
  Now don't get me wrong, the shield/weapon systems category 'can' still be used effectively in STFs. The 2.5% phaser and polaron proc will reduce incoming damage and help kill the enemy shields. If reducing incoming damage is what you want to do, by all means use the phaser/polaron weapons. However, from a Time To Kill perspective in STF PVE, the anti shield/weapon system weapons are a few percentage points worse than Antiproton and Disruptor weapons.

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• areikou

  areikou#8990

  Member Posts: 0 Arc User

  June 2012 edited June 2012

  Not really no. I'll use my Armitage class as an example, I run 2 DCs and 2 Photons in the front. When the first fires, there is a global cooldown of 2 seconds, this is for all torpedoes. Meaning that after the first one fires, 2 seconds later the second will fire.
  
  Photons have a 6 second cooldown without doff assistance. Using 3 purple torpedo doffs, your chances of that first launcher going from 6 seconds to 2 seconds is pretty decent. Purple doffs can sheer 5 seconds off of your torpedo cooldown time, meaning it comes down to 1 second for a photon to fire. But since there is a global cooldown, you can only hit the 2 second mark.
  
  You can mix and match these, but there's no reason you can't use the same torpedo type. Tactical consoles that increase torpedo damage though will dictate that you should use the same type anyways.

  [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  [Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
  is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent
  
  Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.

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• helmsmn2 Member Posts: 34 Arc User

  June 2012 edited June 2012

  daiouvegeta2 wrote: »

  Not really no. I'll use my Armitage class as an example, I run 2 DCs and 2 Photons in the front. When the first fires, there is a global cooldown of 2 seconds, this is for all torpedoes. Meaning that after the first one fires, 2 seconds later the second will fire.
  
  Photons have a 6 second cooldown without doff assistance. Using 3 purple torpedo doffs, your chances of that first launcher going from 6 seconds to 2 seconds is pretty decent. Purple doffs can sheer 5 seconds off of your torpedo cooldown time, meaning it comes down to 1 second for a photon to fire. But since there is a global cooldown, you can only hit the 2 second mark.

  
  So you use photons... I never really considered that because they always have lower yield, but I imagine that the combination of doff enhancement AND the lower CD offsets the difference. I may have to try that - once I manage to get some purple doffs. Thanks for the input.

  [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Cleverly disguised as myself - Helmsmn2

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• bludagger Member Posts: 118 Arc User

  June 2012 edited June 2012

  rayezilla wrote: »

  Perhaps I'm assuming that you are all more informed than you are. Let me get a few background facts down:
  
  Phaser: 2.5% chance to disable a random subsystem
  Disruptor: 2.5% chance to lower the targets hull damage resistance by 10% for 15 sec
  Plasma: 2.5% chance to apply a non-stacking damage-over-time debuff
  Polaron: 2.5% chance to reduce all enemy subsystem power levels by 25
  Tetryon: 2.5% chance to deal additional shield damage
  Antiproton: 20% increased critical severity
  
  These can be roughly grouped into two kinds of weapons:
  
  Weapons that affect shield and/or weapon systems: Tetryon, Polaron, Phaser.
  
  Weapons that increase hull damage: Antiproton, Disruptor, Plasma.
  
  Are we all in agreement so far? So, to continue a little further, there are three primary kinds of combat that we can currently engage in: PVP, STF PVE and non STF PVE. I'm going to discard non-stf PVE as a consideration because it is trivial at level cap.
  
  So here is my assumption: In PVP, the first weapon category (shield/weapon system affecting weapons) are the optimal weapons, with the second category(barring Plasma weapons) being very close behind.
  
  In PVE, the second category (barring Plasma weapons) is optimal for the lowest Time To Kill, specifically because the majority of borg damage is Hull damage.
  
  Now don't get me wrong, the shield/weapon systems category 'can' still be used effectively in STFs. The 2.5% phaser and polaron proc will reduce incoming damage and help kill the enemy shields. If reducing incoming damage is what you want to do, by all means use the phaser/polaron weapons. However, from a Time To Kill perspective in STF PVE, the anti shield/weapon system weapons are a few percentage points worse than Antiproton and Disruptor weapons.

  
  We are informed just fine, thanks. You "assume" a great deal.
  You are definitely a bit uninformed, not understanding of the end game data that is being provided and condescending when you speak to others with some of your opening lines. Perhaps you would be better received by again providing in game data and not hypothetical "if's" based on what a stat on a weapon is, vs to what it "actually" does in game by taking in the raw data that many of us use which shows true after effects when all the variables are taken into account.
  Many folks, myself included have been doing this game since closed beta and we have mountains of data to look over. We test new things that come out in ways most never even conceive of attempting and we compare notes and data.
  
  Weapon that affect shield is only Tetryon. Polaron affect power settings regardless of shields, Disruptors/Plasma affect hull regardless of shields, Phasers affect sub-systems regardless of shields, Anti-proton is just plain raw damage to everything shields and hull. There is just no 2 specific things for weapons as a whole. It is not a hypothetical thing. It is a set hard data that is effect by a large set of in game variables.
  
  It is clear you really do not know how the game really is functioning. Consider this the last participation of our conversation on my part. Have a good day neighbor.

  [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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• raslekx626 Member Posts: 28 Arc User

  February 2013 edited February 2013

  vicwuff wrote: »

  Yeah, also considering that nowhere have I read that the phaser proc isn't supposed to work on borg. I'd like to know where these people are getting this idea.

  
  its not that the phasers dont work on the borg its that they fix the sub system almost right after so you dont see any difrence they fix it WAY to fast for it to benifit you in anyway

  To understand the underlying philosophy of the Sith. The dark side offers power for power's sake. You must crave it. Covet it. You must SEEK POWER ABOVE ALL ELSE WITH NO RESERVATION OR HESITATION.

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• jadensecura Member Posts: 660 Arc User

  February 2013 edited February 2013

  Please don't necro threads, especially ones with builds this bad. Seriously, two rear torps on an Ody without saucer sep, with only 4 broadsiding arrays and no EPtS chain? WHY!? It would be bad on any cruiser, but an Ody is pure tank and no maneuverability, so it's at its weakest on that.

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• valoraa Member Posts: 5 Arc User

  March 2013 edited March 2013

  I've read this post and a couple others but I've decided to ask this question here because there seems to be some knowledgable people contributing to the thread. Please don't crucify me for the question as this is all relatively new to me. I spec'd into a tactical officer and I think I'm ok as far as my tach build I focused mostly on shield/hull protection and regen and energy weapons. I am using a "bug" assault craft that I was lucky enough to get Forman officer pack and it is better than anything else I have at the moment. My question is this. I don't do pvp at all and don't plan to. I'm not in a fleet so I don't know how much load out in fleet ops matters. All I do is pugs for reg and elite missions and regular dailies. What kind of weapons, consoles, etc etc should I use for my current play style? I've also started the omega quest line but am curious as to which space equipment to build. Borg,Maco or Omega. I've tried to provide as much info as I can. Any help or suggestions will be appreciated. Feel free to dumb it down for me aswell as many of the terms and abbrv are new to me. Again, thanks.

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• boxcarwolf Member Posts: 1 Arc User

  April 2013 edited April 2013

  Hey I could use some help with A chimera build, can someone post a decent one please, thx:D

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