I never bought the ship for the pets, I could really care less about them. I bought it for being the Engineer slanted va escort. The lt cmdr boff slot far out weights anything the pets can do for me :cool:
I do not foresee myself flying any other escort for pve, maybe the mvam for crowd control, but then having access to attack pattern diarrhoea could be better..
The defiant-r is still my weapon of choice for pvp and that wont change
If the pet ai in this game were even remotely useful I could see the benefit, but all they are to me is a distraction.
PLEASE DO NOT ASK why the Armitage is so good. Or the devs will nerf her. I'm more than happy with exactly how the ship currently is
Let the pvpers whine about how over powered she is so she gets her nerf. That's the unwritten rule
PvPers have some legitimate complaints, but those complaints shouldn't be aimed specifically at this ship or its one hangar bay.
Here's the compounded issue:
1) Carrier Pet design & implementation with regards to PvP.
2) Spam: both a UI/lag issue as well as pets spamming specific powers which either have no counter (chrontion proc - no counter, phaser proc - I believe no counter, subsys repair used to help but I don't believe it's working) or are extremely difficult (if not imposible) to counter en masse (pet spammed tractor beams).
3) Flight Deck Officer Hangar rech reduction.
As for the ship itself it has a similar build as the MVAE with regards to BOFFs, swapping out Sci Lt Comm for Eng Lt Comm.
Every other C-store, T5 Escort also has 2 bonus features - just as this one does.
While the OP seems to think Carriers lose turn rate to be carriers, in reality they lose turn rate for a number of things.
The Atrox for example as a massive cruiser-like hull (approx 40K base) combined with Sci ship shielding (1.2 Modifier - higher than any Cruiser available, including the Odyssey Class), 4 Device Slots (vs. 3 for standard Sci ships) and a unique BOFF layout that grants 2 Lt Commander stations in addition to a Commander Station which trades out the relatively low value extra ensign boff slot (1 power) for an additional high value Lt Commander Slot (1 power).
The OP is looking at the Armitage and possibly thinking it needs a nerf in comparison to his own favored ship, the Atrox - but I think we can look at Carriers and compare them to Sci ships to see which one of the two has been completely overshadowed by the other.
PvPers have some legitimate complaints, but those complaints shouldn't be aimed specifically at this ship or its one hangar bay.
Here's the compounded issue:
1) Carrier Pet design & implementation with regards to PvP.
2) Spam: both a UI/lag issue as well as pets spamming specific powers which either have no counter (chrontion proc - no counter, phaser proc - I believe no counter, subsys repair used to help but I don't believe it's working) or are extremely difficult (if not imposible) to counter en masse (pet spammed tractor beams).
3) Flight Deck Officer Hangar rech reduction.
As for the ship itself it has a similar build as the MVAE with regards to BOFFs, swapping out Sci Lt Comm for Eng Lt Comm.
Every other C-store, T5 Escort also has 2 bonus features - just as this one does.
While the OP seems to think Carriers lose turn rate to be carriers, in reality they lose turn rate for a number of things.
The Atrox for example as a massive cruiser-like hull (approx 40K base) combined with Sci ship shielding (1.2 Modifier - higher than any Cruiser available, including the Odyssey Class), 4 Device Slots (vs. 3 for standard Sci ships) and a unique BOFF layout that grants 2 Lt Commander stations in addition to a Commander Station which trades out the relatively low value extra ensign boff slot (1 power) for an additional high value Lt Commander Slot (1 power).
The OP would like to point at the Armitage and insinuate it needs a nerf in comparison to his own favored ship, the Atrox - but I think we can look at Carriers and compare them to Sci ships to see which one of the two has been completely overshadowed by the other.
I agree regarding the general PvP issues of pet spam and their debuffing (across both factions and various debuffs). I also agree generaly C-Store ships have been in general better than non-C-Store ships w/little costs (even less since season 5 and the addition of console slots previously not included).
But, not all bonuses are equal and not all have eqaul amounts of costs. The B'rel vs BoP for example. The B'rel gets a small turnrate boost, and EBC vs BC (a solid buff). But, it loses a ton of hull (21k starting) from a ships (BoP) that didnt have much to begin with. This makes it arguably the least boosted C-Store ship of its tier.
Imo, the comparisons should be between the Fleet Escort and the C-Store escorts. The fleet escort being the baseline. In this case the Akira gets more crew (helps repair subsystems w/Power Insulators) which is all in all minor. Swaps Lt Eng for Lt Comm Tac depending on role & playstyle this could be a buff or a nerf (for me it has the potential to be a huge buff). Adds a hangar bay (huge buff based on OP pets). There maybe other changes, I just don't know the ships well enough. But, it's a better start imo then comparing it to other C-Store ships directly.
This T5 Akira is not totally Overpowered, the Hull is quite weak as with other Escorts... and does not have much in the way of support for Science and Engineering officers to keep her afloat... But in the right hands she can can be a very potent weapon and kept alive
She's an T5.1 escort with a Lt.Cmdr Eng. and a Lt. Sci station. What more would you need?
I can think of countless builds making for a durable "cruiser" vessel, still with the firepower of 3x DHC and CRF III & APA III and/or APO/D/B.
Odyssey Science Cruiser (and other Odyssey Cruisers) vs. Other T5 Cuisers
1) 42K Hull vs. 39 or 40K hull (STO wiki lists 40K, web based C-store lists 39K - I'm not sure which is accurate, I'll need to confirm when I can get in game).
2) 1.1 Shield Modifier vs. standard Cruiser Shield mod of 1. The Tactical and Operations Odyssey Cruisers actually have 1.15 Shield Mods - compare vs. Sci Ship mod of 1.2.
3) 10 available Console slots vs. standard, across all ships in the game, 9 console slots.
4) Advanced Quantum Slipstream Drive (granted to all Odyssey Class Cruisers), as a convenience feature.
5) Console (Work Bees, Chevron Separation, Aquarius Escort) - roughly even with other C-store ships, but the Odyssey class Cruisers get a special console in addition to everything else.
6) Lt Commander Universal Station & Ensign Universal Station - available only to Odyssey class cruisers vs. all other Cruisers.
7) The Ody Sci Cruiser also gets Sensor Analysis.
Hm.. all true.
You also didn't address that both the Defiant-R and MVAE each get 2 bonus features, just as the Armitage gets 2 bonus features.
If you want to claim that some bonus features are more important than others that's fine, [...].
I don't. It was agenuine question. Thanks for this complete answer. ^^
The B'rel vs BoP for example. The B'rel gets a small turnrate boost, and EBC vs BC (a solid buff). But, it loses a ton of hull (21k starting) from a ships (BoP) that didnt have much to begin with. This makes it arguably the least boosted C-Store ship of its tier.
Again, agreed.
I'm not sure what the design concept was at the time, my gut reaction is that the devs thought the ship needed are large penalty for the benefits of EBC. Whether that was worth it at the time is iffy at best, and the B'rel remains on the fairly extreme end of glass cannon style play.
Imo, the comparisons should be between the Fleet Escort and the C-Store escorts. The fleet escort being the baseline.
Well, i think we can all agree that ships people have to pay C-points for, and that you can only unlock at L50/VA were pretty much destined to be better than free/dilithium ships that you unlock at L40.
What's interesting is that you can, and people still do and will, fly a L40RA unlocked ship at endgame and really not be far behind, or even behind at all.
The Torpedo PDS is a nice toy at best, with a massive downtime - just like the Phaser Lance, original PDS, etc.
The Hangar bay is again, a nice perk (for PvE) and the main issue with it is the spam factor currently problematic in PvP.
The ship itself however really is not OP, and I think once the "new shiny" effect wears off, people will wonder what all of the fuss was about.
Well, i think we can all agree that ships people have to pay C-points for, and that you can only unlock at L50/VA were pretty much destined to be better than free/dilithium ships that you unlock at L40.
What's interesting is that you can, and people still do and will, fly a L40RA unlocked ship at endgame and really not be far behind, or even behind at all.
The Torpedo PDS is a nice toy at best, with a massive downtime - just like the Phaser Lance, original PDS, etc.
The Hangar bay is again, a nice perk (for PvE) and the main issue with it is the spam factor currently problematic in PvP.
The ship itself however really is not OP, and I think once the "new shiny" effect wears off, people will wonder what all of the fuss was about.
Actually at first the C-Store ships/VA unlocks were pubically stated to NOT be better by design by the Devs at the time of their releases (though later they did admit they designed them that way). This was well before F2P and consoles being moveable to otherships or stackable etc. The Grade 4 ships are the common baseline (or parents) before the various branching at Grade 5. It's why it's better imo to see how the various ships evolved, if you will, from the common frame of reference or parent.
The benefits of the hangar bay which is part of the ship are dependent on what can go in them. At this time they're very usefull in both PvE & PvP though some pets may benefit one area more than the other.
Further, there's no other Escort which can use CRF3 and DEM2 and have 4 DHCS, 3 Turrets, 4 Tac consoles. Or EPTS3 for shield hardening. Or ET3/Aux2sif2 for hull. Or EWP for CC. It can still use BO/HYT builds, or CRF/HYT, or CRF/BO builds in tac. With tech doffs it can use aux2batt to reduce the cooldowns of all the powers. Imo, the boff layout is better then most other options the Fed Escorts have for Tacs. Note: I'm not counting lotto ships which are a whole other can of worms.
Further, there's no other Escort which can use CRF3 and DEM2 and have 4 DHCS, 3 Turrets, 4 Tac consoles.
<SNIP>
I just want some clarification here. What do you mean when you say no other Escort can have 4 Dual Heavies and 3 Turrets, and 4 Tac Consoles, or use CRF3? I'm asking because before I used the Armitage, I was bouncing back and forth between the Sao Paulo, and Fleet Escort, and both could do all of those...
I just want some clarification here. What do you mean when you say no other Escort can have 4 Dual Heavies and 3 Turrets, and 4 Tac Consoles, or use CRF3? I'm asking because before I used the Armitage, I was bouncing back and forth between the Sao Paulo, and Fleet Escort, and both could do all of those...
You missed combining all that w/DEM2.
Edit: To elaborate more -
1. DEM2 adds a lot of damage to cannon builds particularly to hull which BoPs don't have a lot of (if you're PvPing vs KDF). It's also useful to use on any player who waits too long to RSP/shield buff.
2. ET3 - this can be use w/PH&HE in scis to chain the hull resists while have in huge short cooldown on spike repairs (assuming Maint Doffs here) the PH also adds another movement debuff counter for when you don't have a lot of TBs on you, but won't help vs cronts. You can manually adjust power levels prior to using sci abilities to boost resists, and the heal of HE. ET&HE clear various debuffs.
3. Aux2Sif2 - this can used to free up a sci hull resists boff slot to use TSS or a CC like TB, while not as large a hull repair as ET, it's still decent w/aux power batt & nice resist buff
4. EWP - A nice AOE movement debuff/cloak debuff along w/Doff that has chance to shut engines down completely
5. EPTS3 - this can be used to really boost shield defenses
For 1,4,&5 aux2batt w/doffs can be used to shorten cooldowns along w/provide a very good power boost to shield, weapons, and engines. This will drop aux to 5 max, so you'll have to manage you power rolls. Also, you'll get more aux2batt boost based on your aux power level. So, if you switch to a high aux preset and then high weapons you'll get the most out of the ability. But, you'll actually drop below 5 aux power to zero which will shut off any abilities which require Aux. So, you'll have to think and plan things through as you're playing.
1. DEM2 adds a lot of damage to cannon builds particularly to hull which BoPs don't have a lot of (if you're PvPing vs KDF). It's also useful to use on any player who waits too long to RSP/shield buff.
2. ET3 - this can be use w/PH&HE in scis to chain the hull resists while have in huge short cooldown on spike repairs (assuming Maint Doffs here) the PH also adds another movement debuff counter for when you don't have a lot of TBs on you, but won't help vs cronts. You can manually adjust power levels prior to using sci abilities to boost resists, and the heal of HE. ET&HE clear various debuffs.
3. Aux2Sif2 - this can used to free up a sci hull resists boff slot to use TSS or a CC like TB, while not as large a hull repair as ET, it's still decent w/aux power batt & nice resist buff
4. EWP - A nice AOE movement debuff/cloak debuff along w/Doff that has chance to shut engines down completely
5. EPTS3 - this can be used to really boost shield defenses
For 1,4,&5 aux2batt w/doffs can be used to shorten cooldowns along w/provide a very good power boost to shield, weapons, and engines. This will drop aux to 5 max, so you'll have to manage you power rolls. Also, you'll get more aux2batt boost based on your aux power level. So, if you switch to a high aux preset and then high weapons you'll get the most out of the ability. But, you'll actually drop below 5 aux power to zero which will shut off any abilities which require Aux. So, you'll have to think and plan things through as you're playing.
My beloved Atrox has 6 weapon slotes, where other ships of her size have 8.
I don't know if you've noticed (most players never touch the KDF at endgame so its a common issue) but your Atrox is really just a reskin of the Vo'Quv, which is actually based on a Sci vessel, and NOT a cruiser. That's why you only get 6 weapons. Look at it this way, your Atrox gives up turning to get 2 fighter bays. The Armitage sacrifices a Lt. Commander Tac power, which equates to a loss of DPS, presumably made up for by using one fighter bay and getting a bit more durability.
As far as the console, like all Fed consoles their use outside of (and even in) pvp is questionable, and in the Torp PDS console's case I would say its particularly underpowered when compared to the Phaser version, longer range and all.
I don't know if you've noticed (most players never touch the KDF at endgame so its a common issue) but your Atrox is really just a reskin of the Vo'Quv, which is actually based on a Sci vessel, and NOT a cruiser. That's why you only get 6 weapons.
Hm, no, it is similar to the Vo'Quv in some way, but clearly different. The Vo'Quv has a Lt Com Tactical slot (where the Atrox has a Lt Com Sci instead), more hit points, and of course other pets.
But yes, the Atrox is modelled as a sci vessel and that is why it has only 6 weapons, true. However, real sci ships do have Sensor Analysis, which, if I am not mistaken, the Atrox does not have. (Or if it has, I haven't noticed... apologies if this is the case).
Look at it this way, your Atrox gives up turning to get 2 fighter bays. The Armitage sacrifices a Lt. Commander Tac power, which equates to a loss of DPS, presumably made up for by using one fighter bay and getting a bit more durability.
[...]
I was actually more asking about a comparison with other escorts. Of course I know that my Atrox is far superior to the Armitage!
Seriously, though, there have been excellent answers to my original question in this thread, Thanks to all of you. ^^
The T5 Akira gives up alot of offensive damage for having the hanger bay. To even take full advantage of which you need to be running high aux, again sacraficing wep power or an eng slot for emergency power to aux (which i have seen alot of them using) The MVAM can seperate and you get two pets.(no aux requred and depending on which section you command can give you nice power bonuses) The Akira gets a hanger bay and some pets. MVAM has a ltcmdr sci slot which is more useful for heals or offensive trickory. The Ltcmdr Eng slot on Akira is just going to make me work a bit harder to kill you but at the same time they arent putting out comprable DPS to say a Defiant R
I think the fact of the matter is that these are new tier (5.5) ships we are seeing.
For a long time VA captains have been stuck with what is basically RA ships and Boff slots. Now we are getting ships like the Bortas, Odyssey, Atrox and Armitage. From what I remember of Heretics posts, you'll also be able to get VA upgraded variants of RA ships from your fleets starbase.
Odyssey Starcruiser - All versions render the original Starcruiser obsolete, with more hull, more shields and more boff slots, one of which is universal.
Atrox - Basically a vastly upgraded DSSV with a cmdr engineer station, about twice the hull and 2 hangers.
Armitage - Upgraded fleet escort with a cmdr engineer station and a hanger.
Compared to the other tier 5.5 ships it's actually not not as powerful, with no shield or hull upgrades.
That said, the Armitage could do without being able to field danube runabouts, but then they're OP on any ship.
Its based on the Original Akira Class, Heavy Escort, Gun Boat, Carrier... which was in fact a Heavy Escort Class, Gun Boat, Carrier all in one, and I was disappointed that the Akira in STO was missing these Additions, But we now have them and all on a T5 Version... which im very happy with
And I think the Designer of the Akira Class Ship "Alex Jaeger" made an Awesome Design, and possibly one of the best designs for a Starship in Star Trek
This T5 Akira is not totally Overpowered, the Hull is quite weak as with other Escorts... and does not have much in the way of support for Science and Engineering officers to keep her afloat... But in the right hands she can can be a very potent weapon and kept alive
In PvP, she can deal out great amount of damage as with any other T5 Escort, and with the Thunderchild Point Defence Console in combination with the Torpedo Point Defence Console, it can be a somewhat OP Combination in both PvP and PvE, IF and only IF used at the right time, otherwise they dont have much of an effect on full Shields...
Again in PvP, the T5 Akira is a Great Hit and Run Attack Platform, with Maneuverability and Speed on her side to hit the Target quickly with a great amount of damage then to withdraw quickly if taking damage
Fighters come in handy to distract Targets in Both PvE and PvP before you make your attack Run, I have not messed around with the Shield Repair shuttles or any of the others, only have the Advanced Peregrine Attack Fighters...
I have done a ton of STFs, and she flies great in all of them, tho you do need a real tank to take in coming fire as she will not be able to take much punishment all on her own, if you have the right skills you can tank a little but not as long as a Cruiser
I had set my ship up with 2 forward beam arrays, 2 forward Dual beam arrays and 3 rear Beam arrays... used this set up in PvP and ended up getting 43 kills to 0 deaths and that works quite well...
now tho I have a new set up with 2 forward dual heavy Cannons, 1 forward dual beam array and 1 forward Torpedo tube with 3 rear 360 degree Turrets... used that in a few STFs so far and works great... very nice DPS... have not tried it in PvP yet tho
But as I said im very pleased with the T5 Akira (Armitage) Class, its everything I had hoped to see from a T5 Akira
If you cannot make the new T5 Akira last with that ultra-critical upgrade of a Lt.Cmdr Eng BOFF slot, you don't deserve to be playing. What the hell do you mean it can't be kept "afloat" in a fight? The Lt. Science BOFF slot may not be much, but it means alot in survivability. Toss in some Transfer Shield Strength and Hazard Emitters / Polarize Hull, and you should be a pretty decent tank also, that happens to dish out alot of firepower and can maneuver with pretty much any other Escort.
As an Escort, the new ship gives up NOTHING for all the other benefits it gains. It gained near-cruiser Engineering ability as well as a hangar bay. And it costed NOTHING more than what other Escorts pay for their maneuverability and firepower.
The only weakness the new ship has is it's not a Science Vessel with all the perks associated with it.
Again, if you can't make this ship last, you need to just stop playing.
I drank the Romulan ale I forked out the dough and bought this ship. I used ship in PVP and PVE. In pvp using the danubes tractor was useful against opponents but it was difficult keeping the pets on task and killing the enemy at the same time. My success in PVP was middling at best. I felt more at home with my MVAE were I usually clean house (having the extra shields and higher level tac boff skill is very useful). As per PVE and when i talk PVE I am talking about the cure, accords, and infected. I usually like running Omega III on all my builds but i had to change that line of thinking and switch to Beta III and Beta II while using 2 scatter shots I. I have to load Beta twice so that my so that the pets can do some potent damage, I have to say I have seen my pets do some nasty damage especially the advanced peregrines unloading micro quantums on hull (ah it makes a daddy proud). I found that in order to facilitate good use out of the extra tac slot i had to load up a torp upfront instead of running a straight DHC/turret build. This took a little getting use to. Switching to Beta and 2 high yields have changed my playing style in stf's a bit but its good. I hear a lot of people say that Flight officers are the way to go maybe this is true for pvp, but in my experience for stfs not so much the 30 second cool down was reasonable and since the borg live forever in stfs anyways and the tiny ships dont die unless the borgs go boom 30 seconds in stfs is reasonable. I use two purple conns, two projectile borg purples, and exocomp/redmatter.. I have to say I do very decent damage with 3x antiproton DHC and 3x rear turrets + Proton torp with 2 high yields.
There are three advantages two major and one minor to the Akira Tier 5:
-The major advantage is the Hanger bay with advanced peregrine fighters it helps you eat gates in sto's and your team mates will love you for the optionals, provided someone kills the probes and you have a science guy spamming gravity well or repulsars (the guys who play control do it so well). The tier 5 Akira eats gates and regular cubes on elite but not tac cubes (those are evil and wrong). The little guys will also help you finish Donatra and assault carrier once you get the hull exposed. .
-Another major advantage the Lt commander engineering gives you a lot of flexibility, I use aux to structural II but you can use aux to battery and recharge your bridge Boffs more quickly with space doffs. Or you can use engineering to increase your damage output it is a choice. Aux to struct II is better with a 15 second reload it give this escort more durability. On to the minor advantage.
-The Tac console they provide is usable and at full range 10k it can do some decent hull damage against gates and anything unshielded in stf's are usually the norm. But the cool down of 3 min which is very frustrating.
-50 extra crew helps a little in theory but really this is so minor that it is just foolish and not included.
Not everything is cool in Akira land however there are three major disadvantages over my free favorite the MVAE: (MVAM is not as good a freebie given at 40 the MVAE)
-The MVAE has three Sci consoles which translates into 1000 more shields through science Field generators . 1000 shields on MACO XII means alot of extra punihment the MVAE can take.
-Perhaps it is just me but the MVAE feels faster I love the 360 power slides i can pull off on it my power slides on the Akira feels more like 270's. THIS WAS THE BIGGEST PROBLEM
-the extra high ranking tac slot on MVAE meant I could put in Omega III instead of having to sack it for Akira.
-I have to say for the most part I am happy with the Akira. Playing alot of stf's meant i had dilithium to convert and spent $20 instead of $30 on Perfect world. I am happy I bought it.
Sure having to spec in photon torps high yield 1 two times has not been great and would have liked it if the one tac ensign was a science ensign but that would be pushing it. All in all a decent ship and a welcome addition to the escort lineup. Real good for stf's not so sure about pvp's it will add pet spam but it can be killed and it is not the fastest escort on the block, also expect to be a target because peeps hate da-noobes. So not so much for PVP but a solid yes for PVE specifically stf elite content. btw am a tactical officer hope this helps you guys. Could also work well for an engineering officer as well. Science not so sure on this ship.
Comments
I do not foresee myself flying any other escort for pve, maybe the mvam for crowd control, but then having access to attack pattern diarrhoea could be better..
The defiant-r is still my weapon of choice for pvp and that wont change
If the pet ai in this game were even remotely useful I could see the benefit, but all they are to me is a distraction.
PvPers have some legitimate complaints, but those complaints shouldn't be aimed specifically at this ship or its one hangar bay.
Here's the compounded issue:
1) Carrier Pet design & implementation with regards to PvP.
2) Spam: both a UI/lag issue as well as pets spamming specific powers which either have no counter (chrontion proc - no counter, phaser proc - I believe no counter, subsys repair used to help but I don't believe it's working) or are extremely difficult (if not imposible) to counter en masse (pet spammed tractor beams).
3) Flight Deck Officer Hangar rech reduction.
As for the ship itself it has a similar build as the MVAE with regards to BOFFs, swapping out Sci Lt Comm for Eng Lt Comm.
Every other C-store, T5 Escort also has 2 bonus features - just as this one does.
While the OP seems to think Carriers lose turn rate to be carriers, in reality they lose turn rate for a number of things.
The Atrox for example as a massive cruiser-like hull (approx 40K base) combined with Sci ship shielding (1.2 Modifier - higher than any Cruiser available, including the Odyssey Class), 4 Device Slots (vs. 3 for standard Sci ships) and a unique BOFF layout that grants 2 Lt Commander stations in addition to a Commander Station which trades out the relatively low value extra ensign boff slot (1 power) for an additional high value Lt Commander Slot (1 power).
The OP is looking at the Armitage and possibly thinking it needs a nerf in comparison to his own favored ship, the Atrox - but I think we can look at Carriers and compare them to Sci ships to see which one of the two has been completely overshadowed by the other.
I agree regarding the general PvP issues of pet spam and their debuffing (across both factions and various debuffs). I also agree generaly C-Store ships have been in general better than non-C-Store ships w/little costs (even less since season 5 and the addition of console slots previously not included).
But, not all bonuses are equal and not all have eqaul amounts of costs. The B'rel vs BoP for example. The B'rel gets a small turnrate boost, and EBC vs BC (a solid buff). But, it loses a ton of hull (21k starting) from a ships (BoP) that didnt have much to begin with. This makes it arguably the least boosted C-Store ship of its tier.
Imo, the comparisons should be between the Fleet Escort and the C-Store escorts. The fleet escort being the baseline. In this case the Akira gets more crew (helps repair subsystems w/Power Insulators) which is all in all minor. Swaps Lt Eng for Lt Comm Tac depending on role & playstyle this could be a buff or a nerf (for me it has the potential to be a huge buff). Adds a hangar bay (huge buff based on OP pets). There maybe other changes, I just don't know the ships well enough. But, it's a better start imo then comparing it to other C-Store ships directly.
Science.
Yes I know big loss
She's an T5.1 escort with a Lt.Cmdr Eng. and a Lt. Sci station. What more would you need?
I can think of countless builds making for a durable "cruiser" vessel, still with the firepower of 3x DHC and CRF III & APA III and/or APO/D/B.
Hm.. all true.
I don't. It was agenuine question. Thanks for this complete answer. ^^
Agreed.
Again, agreed.
I'm not sure what the design concept was at the time, my gut reaction is that the devs thought the ship needed are large penalty for the benefits of EBC. Whether that was worth it at the time is iffy at best, and the B'rel remains on the fairly extreme end of glass cannon style play.
Well, i think we can all agree that ships people have to pay C-points for, and that you can only unlock at L50/VA were pretty much destined to be better than free/dilithium ships that you unlock at L40.
What's interesting is that you can, and people still do and will, fly a L40RA unlocked ship at endgame and really not be far behind, or even behind at all.
The Torpedo PDS is a nice toy at best, with a massive downtime - just like the Phaser Lance, original PDS, etc.
The Hangar bay is again, a nice perk (for PvE) and the main issue with it is the spam factor currently problematic in PvP.
The ship itself however really is not OP, and I think once the "new shiny" effect wears off, people will wonder what all of the fuss was about.
Actually at first the C-Store ships/VA unlocks were pubically stated to NOT be better by design by the Devs at the time of their releases (though later they did admit they designed them that way). This was well before F2P and consoles being moveable to otherships or stackable etc. The Grade 4 ships are the common baseline (or parents) before the various branching at Grade 5. It's why it's better imo to see how the various ships evolved, if you will, from the common frame of reference or parent.
The benefits of the hangar bay which is part of the ship are dependent on what can go in them. At this time they're very usefull in both PvE & PvP though some pets may benefit one area more than the other.
Further, there's no other Escort which can use CRF3 and DEM2 and have 4 DHCS, 3 Turrets, 4 Tac consoles. Or EPTS3 for shield hardening. Or ET3/Aux2sif2 for hull. Or EWP for CC. It can still use BO/HYT builds, or CRF/HYT, or CRF/BO builds in tac. With tech doffs it can use aux2batt to reduce the cooldowns of all the powers. Imo, the boff layout is better then most other options the Fed Escorts have for Tacs. Note: I'm not counting lotto ships which are a whole other can of worms.
I just want some clarification here. What do you mean when you say no other Escort can have 4 Dual Heavies and 3 Turrets, and 4 Tac Consoles, or use CRF3? I'm asking because before I used the Armitage, I was bouncing back and forth between the Sao Paulo, and Fleet Escort, and both could do all of those...
You missed combining all that w/DEM2.
Edit: To elaborate more -
1. DEM2 adds a lot of damage to cannon builds particularly to hull which BoPs don't have a lot of (if you're PvPing vs KDF). It's also useful to use on any player who waits too long to RSP/shield buff.
2. ET3 - this can be use w/PH&HE in scis to chain the hull resists while have in huge short cooldown on spike repairs (assuming Maint Doffs here) the PH also adds another movement debuff counter for when you don't have a lot of TBs on you, but won't help vs cronts. You can manually adjust power levels prior to using sci abilities to boost resists, and the heal of HE. ET&HE clear various debuffs.
3. Aux2Sif2 - this can used to free up a sci hull resists boff slot to use TSS or a CC like TB, while not as large a hull repair as ET, it's still decent w/aux power batt & nice resist buff
4. EWP - A nice AOE movement debuff/cloak debuff along w/Doff that has chance to shut engines down completely
5. EPTS3 - this can be used to really boost shield defenses
For 1,4,&5 aux2batt w/doffs can be used to shorten cooldowns along w/provide a very good power boost to shield, weapons, and engines. This will drop aux to 5 max, so you'll have to manage you power rolls. Also, you'll get more aux2batt boost based on your aux power level. So, if you switch to a high aux preset and then high weapons you'll get the most out of the ability. But, you'll actually drop below 5 aux power to zero which will shut off any abilities which require Aux. So, you'll have to think and plan things through as you're playing.
I misread what you said, my apologies.
No problem, it happens.
I don't know if you've noticed (most players never touch the KDF at endgame so its a common issue) but your Atrox is really just a reskin of the Vo'Quv, which is actually based on a Sci vessel, and NOT a cruiser. That's why you only get 6 weapons. Look at it this way, your Atrox gives up turning to get 2 fighter bays. The Armitage sacrifices a Lt. Commander Tac power, which equates to a loss of DPS, presumably made up for by using one fighter bay and getting a bit more durability.
As far as the console, like all Fed consoles their use outside of (and even in) pvp is questionable, and in the Torp PDS console's case I would say its particularly underpowered when compared to the Phaser version, longer range and all.
Hm, no, it is similar to the Vo'Quv in some way, but clearly different. The Vo'Quv has a Lt Com Tactical slot (where the Atrox has a Lt Com Sci instead), more hit points, and of course other pets.
But yes, the Atrox is modelled as a sci vessel and that is why it has only 6 weapons, true. However, real sci ships do have Sensor Analysis, which, if I am not mistaken, the Atrox does not have. (Or if it has, I haven't noticed... apologies if this is the case).
I was actually more asking about a comparison with other escorts. Of course I know that my Atrox is far superior to the Armitage!
Seriously, though, there have been excellent answers to my original question in this thread, Thanks to all of you. ^^
For a long time VA captains have been stuck with what is basically RA ships and Boff slots. Now we are getting ships like the Bortas, Odyssey, Atrox and Armitage. From what I remember of Heretics posts, you'll also be able to get VA upgraded variants of RA ships from your fleets starbase.
Odyssey Starcruiser - All versions render the original Starcruiser obsolete, with more hull, more shields and more boff slots, one of which is universal.
Atrox - Basically a vastly upgraded DSSV with a cmdr engineer station, about twice the hull and 2 hangers.
Armitage - Upgraded fleet escort with a cmdr engineer station and a hanger.
Compared to the other tier 5.5 ships it's actually not not as powerful, with no shield or hull upgrades.
That said, the Armitage could do without being able to field danube runabouts, but then they're OP on any ship.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
If you cannot make the new T5 Akira last with that ultra-critical upgrade of a Lt.Cmdr Eng BOFF slot, you don't deserve to be playing. What the hell do you mean it can't be kept "afloat" in a fight? The Lt. Science BOFF slot may not be much, but it means alot in survivability. Toss in some Transfer Shield Strength and Hazard Emitters / Polarize Hull, and you should be a pretty decent tank also, that happens to dish out alot of firepower and can maneuver with pretty much any other Escort.
As an Escort, the new ship gives up NOTHING for all the other benefits it gains. It gained near-cruiser Engineering ability as well as a hangar bay. And it costed NOTHING more than what other Escorts pay for their maneuverability and firepower.
The only weakness the new ship has is it's not a Science Vessel with all the perks associated with it.
Again, if you can't make this ship last, you need to just stop playing.
There are three advantages two major and one minor to the Akira Tier 5:
-The major advantage is the Hanger bay with advanced peregrine fighters it helps you eat gates in sto's and your team mates will love you for the optionals, provided someone kills the probes and you have a science guy spamming gravity well or repulsars (the guys who play control do it so well). The tier 5 Akira eats gates and regular cubes on elite but not tac cubes (those are evil and wrong). The little guys will also help you finish Donatra and assault carrier once you get the hull exposed. .
-Another major advantage the Lt commander engineering gives you a lot of flexibility, I use aux to structural II but you can use aux to battery and recharge your bridge Boffs more quickly with space doffs. Or you can use engineering to increase your damage output it is a choice. Aux to struct II is better with a 15 second reload it give this escort more durability. On to the minor advantage.
-The Tac console they provide is usable and at full range 10k it can do some decent hull damage against gates and anything unshielded in stf's are usually the norm. But the cool down of 3 min which is very frustrating.
-50 extra crew helps a little in theory but really this is so minor that it is just foolish and not included.
Not everything is cool in Akira land however there are three major disadvantages over my free favorite the MVAE: (MVAM is not as good a freebie given at 40 the MVAE)
-The MVAE has three Sci consoles which translates into 1000 more shields through science Field generators . 1000 shields on MACO XII means alot of extra punihment the MVAE can take.
-Perhaps it is just me but the MVAE feels faster I love the 360 power slides i can pull off on it my power slides on the Akira feels more like 270's. THIS WAS THE BIGGEST PROBLEM
-the extra high ranking tac slot on MVAE meant I could put in Omega III instead of having to sack it for Akira.
-I have to say for the most part I am happy with the Akira. Playing alot of stf's meant i had dilithium to convert and spent $20 instead of $30 on Perfect world. I am happy I bought it.
Sure having to spec in photon torps high yield 1 two times has not been great and would have liked it if the one tac ensign was a science ensign but that would be pushing it. All in all a decent ship and a welcome addition to the escort lineup. Real good for stf's not so sure about pvp's it will add pet spam but it can be killed and it is not the fastest escort on the block, also expect to be a target because peeps hate da-noobes. So not so much for PVP but a solid yes for PVE specifically stf elite content. btw am a tactical officer hope this helps you guys. Could also work well for an engineering officer as well. Science not so sure on this ship.