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Cryptic/Perfect world....listening to your fans isn't weakness...

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited March 2012 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
....it shows mutual respect. Look at Bioware and the whole Mass Effect 3 ending fiasco.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/mass-effect-3-ending-changed-video-gamer-backlash-bioware-announces-article-1.1048196?localLinksEnabled=false

We, as fans of Trek want nothing but the best for STO. We want this game to have staying power. We don't want to neuter your vision, we just want it to live up to the vision/legacy that Gene Roddenberry founded. Is this too much to ask? Lock boxes and such gimmicks seem so out of place given the Franchise. In the end...do what you wish. With P2W ships, lock boxes and using Fanmade ships for profit. But realize as Bioware did, your most vocal fans tend to be your best source of free press. And we..."the vocal minority" really want to be on your side. Just food for thought.
Post edited by Unknown User on

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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Why has no one else commented on this thread...does the truth hurt people? :confused:
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    The proof as to whether cryptic is listening at all, will be when or if they add lockboxes for yet another ship or item.

    the fact there was overwhelming amount of negativity here, which MUST have been read by cryptic, would prove one way or the other if they listen at all (...or care)
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    i never seen it before now, what ever the hell you mean by the truth hurts..

    companies never listen/read to their fanbases demands, especially when they ar backed by a powerful investor. simple fact is, they may get one or two ideas from the community only if its really well accepted by a few thousand players on the game, otherwise it's most likely ignored while the suits run everything. at the risk of trying to avoid trolling, what would you expect? i have only known a few games in the entire history of gaming that have actually listened to their customer feedback and changed things, the problem was that in the end, there was so many idea's and everyone wanting their own thing that the game maker couldnt continue the game.

    i was once a former game guru to Aeria games along time ago, only had the position for a month but in that time i learned that alot of requests from the community were discussed behind closed doosr for a game called project torque, me and a few other game gurus talked and agreed with AG management about what should be added and improved before it was sent out to the company who had the game at the time in order to produce new updates, we even tsted then a week before hand. a few years later i found out that PT was no longer on their games list and infact it was discontinued because there were so many ideas and requests that it became too much to handle for AG.

    STO has never ran like this, 2 years down the road and its still going and i dont see it giving up until PWE decides that Cryptic is no longer of use. for now just attempt to offer ideas and see if they get around to it.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    QuanManChu wrote:
    ....it shows mutual respect. Look at Bioware and the whole Mass Effect 3 ending fiasco.

    Oh? Hi, you mean this?
    Despite his willingness to address fan frustration, Muzyka was not completely pleased with all gamers’ reactions. He scolded some for growing “destructive” with their criticism and taking aim at Bioware and certain execs.

    I could point more ... the fact is the ending blows, I have it ... boxed and uninstalled because I seen the ending on IGN, I bet this makes a hard case for selling DLC and as the article mentions there is the question of who made the decision ... was it EA? or EA BioWare executives?
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    On the original post...

    There is a lot of evidence to suggest that Bioware had planned this outcome long ago. So really, and without spoiling anything for people, they aren't changing a thing - they're just delivering the rest of the story.

    The only betrayal of faith that Bioware is guilty of is making people pay for the actual ending... To date, at least we can say Cryptic haven't done that.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Koppenflak wrote:
    On the original post...

    There is a lot of evidence to suggest that Bioware had planned this outcome long ago. So really, and without spoiling anything for people, they aren't changing a thing - they're just delivering the rest of the story.

    The only betrayal of faith that Bioware is guilty of is making people pay for the actual ending... To date, at least we can say Cryptic haven't done that.

    based on the reaction from every site i have ran across about ME3, i dont think i ever want to buy the series, never played it before and now i dont think i want to try. lucky cryptic have only made small mistakes compared to that big one.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Xautos wrote:
    based on the reaction from every site i have ran across about ME3, i dont think i ever want to buy the series, never played it before and now i dont think i want to try. lucky cryptic have only made small mistakes compared to that big one.

    (Spoiler free) To be totally fair, the ending of Mass Effect 3 - if the going 'theory' is correct (and the evidence to say it is correct is... staggering) then Bioware have probably pulled off the single greatest story twist in any of their games since the original KOTOR, with roots going back to the very start of Mass Effect 1.

    When we do see an actual "ending" to ME3, I'll be more than happy to play it.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Xautos, its the tone.

    ME1 and ME2 have that B movie feeling of "Big Goddamn Heroes" were you just beat the bad guys, get the girl and save the world.

    ME3 ending is Inception, its off tune with the rest of the series, perhaps its not bad per say but with ME1, ME2 and a lot of ME3 it just off.

    And them comes the "artistic" excuse, not the first time they pulled that one since they also pulled it about DA2 narrative, this would be strike 2 for me if I as not already tried of their BS ... ME3 was just like Star Wars prequels to me, except I actually watched those as ME3 ending snaps all will to play it.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Koppenflak wrote:
    (Spoiler free) To be totally fair, the ending of Mass Effect 3 - if the going 'theory' is correct (and the evidence to say it is correct is... staggering) then Bioware have probably pulled off the single greatest story twist in any of their games since the original KOTOR, with roots going back to the very start of Mass Effect 1.

    When we do see an actual "ending" to ME3, I'll be more than happy to play it.

    same here, but thats the positive from the negative. water under the bridge for bioware.

    but pulling back to the point, hopefully cryptic will have seen that and not take a similar route of not listening to their community at all, but then i dont expect a great deal more once again. thats all i can say until one of the cryptic staff can elaborate a bit more (i would eat my hat if they did!).
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Bioware has a thing for dark endings.. look at most of the Neverwinter stuff. There is a faction of their fanbase who consider anything with a remotely happy ending 'unrealistic' or 'care bear' or 'rainbows and lolipops.'

    As for making people pay, multiple endings do cost more to produce.

    Listening to clients is important but always has to be balanced against the bottom line. Besides the cost of keeping the servers up at all, in the case of STO there are likely additional licencing fees to be maintained (downside to using existing IP).
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Its funny so many people hate "The" ending, but there is 3 and they do indeed reflect your core 3 choices, good evil and neutral. I liked MY ending choice. Since when has games/movies/anime/ etc having bad endings a total crime, only crime is that M Night still is making movies.

    ME3 is my fav to date, i played 1 all the way through about 10 times, LVL60 completely on insanity much? Its good that bioware listened to the feedback, and indeed some of the reactions were way to overboard to the point of being shocking. Some people looked like villagers with forks and torchs.

    Bioware has a great track record with its fans and its games. It doesnt want to disappoint any of us and it shows that they love their work. Cryptic is the exact opposite, while im sure people like Jman love their work and do a good job. Cryptic fails to listen to feedback at every turn. Tribble is a perfect example of what i mean.

    Tribble is a joke to test on, SWG had it down for how to test a game, make everything available to test all the time so that everything could get caught, they failed on actually DOING much about it tho lol. Ambassador/T5 akira being the 2 top asked for ships and yet not in game after 2 years. Cryptic may listen but they certainly dont hear us, and there is a stark differance between the two.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    QuanManChu wrote:
    Lock boxes and such gimmicks seem so out of place given the Franchise. In the end...do what you wish. With P2W ships, lock boxes and using Fanmade ships for profit.

    How do you expect Cryptic to make money on this game? That is the ONLY question that bears on whether it stays running and keeps growing. So please, if putting ships up for direct sale is wrong, if chance boxes are wrong, then what is your plan for making the game financially viable?

    Please be specific.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    *scraches head* While they do not answer every post, and if they do the answer is not always what we want and yes, they also show a coma like activity to some valid complains (Yo, Cryptic - Ductape the Aquarius bridge holes finally and add a door to the ready room. Or at least comment to it - make me get rid of my c-points!) BUT they answer. They hear and they comment. Even going so far to explain design descissions. Not on everything (Hey, they need to make a game in the mean time, don't they? ;) ) but on far, far more than whats IMO usual on a game forum.

    Just as latest popular example: We would not be able to turn off the galor message (or any future similar announcement) if they would ignore our worries.

    To compare with the ME3 f**kup from Bio they need to release a features series which after the latest mission ends with a bad cliffhanger and a week later release a c-store only mission which is an actual conclusion and the real finale. And even then IMO its just a shallow comparison.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    thiis is a copy/paste from one of Bioware's owners, and he seems to be taking into account that something'll be done about the ending
    To Mass Effect 3 players, from Dr. Ray Muzyka, co-founder of BioWare



    As co-founder and GM of BioWare, I’m very proud of the ME3 team; I personally believe Mass Effect 3 is the best work we’ve yet created. So, it’s incredibly painful to receive feedback from our core fans that the game’s endings were not up to their expectations. Our first instinct is to defend our work and point to the high ratings offered by critics – but out of respect to our fans, we need to accept the criticism and feedback with humility.

    I believe passionately that games are an art form, and that the power of our medium flows from our audience, who are deeply involved in how the story unfolds, and who have the uncontested right to provide constructive criticism. At the same time, I also believe in and support the artistic choices made by the development team. The team and I have been thinking hard about how to best address the comments on ME3’s endings from players, while still maintaining the artistic integrity of the game.

    Mass Effect 3 concludes a trilogy with so much player control and ownership of the story that it was hard for us to predict the range of emotions players would feel when they finished playing through it. The journey you undertake in Mass Effect provokes an intense range of highly personal emotions in the player; even so, the passionate reaction of some of our most loyal players to the current endings in Mass Effect 3 is something that has genuinely surprised us. This is an issue we care about deeply, and we will respond to it in a fair and timely way. We’re already working hard to do that.

    To that end, since the game launched, the team has been poring over everything they can find about reactions to the game – industry press, forums, Facebook, and Twitter, just to name a few. The Mass Effect team, like other teams across the BioWare Label within EA, consists of passionate people who work hard for the love of creating experiences that excite and delight our fans. I’m honored to work with them because they have the courage and strength to respond to constructive feedback.

    Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April. We’re working hard to maintain the right balance between the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan feedback we’ve received. This is in addition to our existing plan to continue providing new Mass Effect content and new full games, so rest assured that your journey in the Mass Effect universe can, and will, continue.

    The reaction to the release of Mass Effect 3 has been unprecedented. On one hand, some of our loyal fans are passionately expressing their displeasure about how their game concluded; we care about this feedback, and we’re planning to directly address it. However, most folks appear to agree that the game as a whole is exceptional, with more than 75 critics giving it a perfect review score and a review average in the mid-90s. Net, I’m proud of the team, but we can and must always strive to do better.

    Some of the criticism that has been delivered in the heat of passion by our most ardent fans, even if founded on valid principles, such as seeking more clarity to questions or looking for more closure, for example – has unfortunately become destructive rather than constructive. We listen and will respond to constructive criticism, but much as we will not tolerate individual attacks on our team members, we will not support or respond to destructive commentary.

    If you are a Mass Effect fan and have input for the team – we respect your opinion and want to hear it. We’re committed to address your constructive feedback as best we can. In return, I’d ask that you help us do that by supporting what I truly believe is the best game BioWare has yet crafted. I urge you to do your own research: play the game, finish it and tell us what you think. Tell your friends if you feel it’s a good game as a whole. Trust that we are doing our damndest, as always, to address your feedback. As artists, we care about our fans deeply and we appreciate your support.

    Thank you for your feedback – we are listening.

    Ray
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Mass Effect's Endings were great for my character. I think people mistakenly conflate and confuse content expectations with content quality.

    That said, fans are not some monolithic group that agree and think the same.
    • Some Trek fans want a simulator where you control one person at one console, i.e. one player pilots, another uses weapons, another issues orders.

    • Some Trek fans want to be a captain and think we should've skipped all the introductory ranks and later admiralty.

    • Some Trek fans love RTS, others FPS, and some prefer Dating Sims.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    alot of 'might be' in that copy/paste comment, but if they were to launch a patch with alternative endings based on your choice, it would make buying the series once again open, it just shows what some community feedback can do even to a company like EA Bioware, especially EA who are known to ignore feedback left, right and center. but i doubt there will be a patch for it until much later in the year, but even so its a start in the right direction. so many lessons are learned.
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    Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2012
    Anyone who thinks the events in ME3 (as they are presently) are "final" and intended to bring closure should probably think back to this:

    http://kotaku.com/5882078/mass-effect-producer-suggests-keeping-your-mass-effect-3-save-games

    Bioware always intended on post-release DLC.

    The story has only ended so much as we saw Master Chief's ship tumbling toward a shield world at the "end" of Halo 3 (Legendary ending required)

    *COUGH*5000 EMS*COUGH*

    If Shepard's story is over, then I'll eat my ruddy hat.
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