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VA ship token instead of 250 Emblems, not fair for everyone.
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Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I just want to say I am really upset at the loss of 250 emblems for the 500 day Vet reward. I was really looking forward to this. Or the equal amount of dilithium. To say that now you will get a VA ship token, UNLESS you already had and spent one is a rip to those of us who haven't yet hit 500.
So it breaks down like this:
Over 500 days before removal of 250 emblems with VA ship token spent. When the new reward goes live to holodeck. these people will get the amount of dilithium equal to 250 emblems.
Over 500 days after removal of 250 emblems with VA ship token spent. When the new reward goes live to holodeck, these people get squat!
I am one of the latter and I gotta say, I could care less about a stupid VA ship token, I rather have the dilithium. I think they either need to give us both, or the choice. Its not fair that now because I had an account active before they took away the VA token and emblems, that now the way the got it, I will not recieve either. And I mean on all my current toons, not new ones. I wouldn't have had to roll a new toon to get my 250 emblems, in fact I would have had to have a VA toon just to get the emblems.
Now when I hit the 500 days, I get a big nothing. No emblems/dilithium, no VA ship token. Like I said, I could less about the ship token, but is it fair to take away emblems that I would have gotten had Crypitc not changed the rewards, and replace it with nothing!!! (I am not talking the title and other stuff, just the emblem loss)
I had figured it was a no brainer, when I saw they took the 250 emblems away, I assumed it was because they were replacing it with an undetermined amount of dilithium. (To be determined when they figured out the 1 emblem to x amount of dilithium ratio.) But now I get a useless ship token I cannot even recieve in its place!!!!
I'm ****ed about this!! :mad: I am SURE Cryptic will change this for this is very unfair to those of us who are not yet 500 days, but were looking forward to it. Why should we get LESS of a reward than the people before us.
Cryptic, you can ADD the VA ship token to 500 day reward, but you cannot take away our 250 emblems/dilithium!!! C'mon!!!
So it breaks down like this:
Over 500 days before removal of 250 emblems with VA ship token spent. When the new reward goes live to holodeck. these people will get the amount of dilithium equal to 250 emblems.
Over 500 days after removal of 250 emblems with VA ship token spent. When the new reward goes live to holodeck, these people get squat!
I am one of the latter and I gotta say, I could care less about a stupid VA ship token, I rather have the dilithium. I think they either need to give us both, or the choice. Its not fair that now because I had an account active before they took away the VA token and emblems, that now the way the got it, I will not recieve either. And I mean on all my current toons, not new ones. I wouldn't have had to roll a new toon to get my 250 emblems, in fact I would have had to have a VA toon just to get the emblems.
Now when I hit the 500 days, I get a big nothing. No emblems/dilithium, no VA ship token. Like I said, I could less about the ship token, but is it fair to take away emblems that I would have gotten had Crypitc not changed the rewards, and replace it with nothing!!! (I am not talking the title and other stuff, just the emblem loss)
I had figured it was a no brainer, when I saw they took the 250 emblems away, I assumed it was because they were replacing it with an undetermined amount of dilithium. (To be determined when they figured out the 1 emblem to x amount of dilithium ratio.) But now I get a useless ship token I cannot even recieve in its place!!!!
I'm ****ed about this!! :mad: I am SURE Cryptic will change this for this is very unfair to those of us who are not yet 500 days, but were looking forward to it. Why should we get LESS of a reward than the people before us.
Cryptic, you can ADD the VA ship token to 500 day reward, but you cannot take away our 250 emblems/dilithium!!! C'mon!!!
Post edited by Unknown User on
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I'm one of those as well. I wanted to use the emblems to outfit my ship with very rare weapons. I hit 500 days near the end of last month.
guess I will have to play the game more now.
Cryptic, put more content in so I can play more, please.
SORRY but the F2P matrix on TRIBBLE has NOTHING to do with holodeck characters at this point. BTW you also worked out a conversion rate for it so again its a NON ISSUE...
This should have never been removed and yet again, we get to bend over and take it up the tailpipe!!!
If you kept creating a new character over and over again you would keep getting the points/emblems etc. Which would allow you to game the Dilithium System they put in place it also allowed to to game the system now by buying gear over and over again for low levels and make EC of it. This is why it was removed.
Problem solved.
That's the why, but it doesn't mean that it's either fair or ethical.
Here's a thought... Why shouldn't 500 day paying veterans of the game get a dilithium headstart with new characters?
I don't think fair or eithical is a factor here, it was something that was forced on them by players that like to abuse the system and exploited emblems for their own personal gain. How was it fair to players with morals that didn't abuse the system that others were making thousands of emblems by abusing the system. Say you got a total of 1500 emblems for all your toons then you found out that I had exploited the system and made 55000 emblems wouldn't you be mad? I know I would.
Sure I don't like the fact that I won't get the emblems when I hit 500 days, but I understand why it happened.
And people in this forum explained even more often why that explanation is a. bs and b. how to fix that easyly.
And no its not fair, it dont care about another va tokens, I simply HAVE all VA ships I want on the characters where I want them. Especially since the va token just gives out a very very limitet amount of ships.
And its especially not fair since those who got the 250 emblems get the va tokken ADDITIONALLY.
I have to agree with this.
You must have a VA to get the emblems, so if you want to start a new toon and grind it all the way to VA, especially the way you will have to grind to VA after tribble goes live. Be my guest I say.
And for Cryptic, THIS SHOULD BE A GOOD THING!! Don't you want people to play the game. I would think someone starting a toon and taking it to VA is the "definition" of what you are hopeing people do right?!?
So why take away an incentive to do that. Lets break it down. You have to be 500 days in just to be eligible, plus you have to have a VA to recieve it. If you been around 500 days. You may be getting bored with content. Why not give someone the reason to play thru again, with a reward for doing it!
It basically gives people who have been here 500 days or more the incentive to start a new toon. Is this bad?
I admit thats not entirely correct. The emblems are given out as soon as you cearte the character, they are just limited by being usable as va ( since you cant spend emblems unless you are va). that is, of course, diffrent with dillithium wich can be spend all the time. If we, for example, could get the eqivalent of 250 emblems at char creation people could create characters, change the dilithium to cstore points, delete character, create new character, exchange dillithium for cp, delete character ect ect.
But thats so easy to fix that it is ridiculous to even talk about it: give out the equivalent of emblems as Admiral, for example though the flag officer accolade combined with the 500 day accolade.
But here is the issue, that can be SO EASYLY fixed by giving out the
Punish all for the actions of the few?
EDIT: I'll actually retract this statement.
In reality, the only people getting punished are the ones that didn't exploit the system and the people who aren't yet at 500 days... The people that exploited got away scot free with tens (hundreds?) of thousands of dilithium, which Cryptic can't/won't take away.
As for your example, no I wouldn't be mad. If a person wanted to buy enough character slots to get the 500 day reward over and over again then that's their prereogative, as far as I'm concerned. All I know is that it's a lump of emblems per char that I won't be getting.
Maybe if they don't want to replace those emblems with dilithium, they might could do it with an adequate number of borg salvage with the same buying power?
I already have two Vice Admirals, and one who is about to hit VA(who will also get a free VA token, since we haven't moved to F2P yet). I have an admiral of each career. There is no use whatsoever for the free VA tokens for me.
They should give us an extra VA token. Regardless of whether we claimed one or not. Or, they should change it where an earlier veteran reward is the free VA token(since those who don't have 500 days, but have still be loyal subscribers for quite some time, shouldn't have their content taken away).
Either way, I feel screwed. They need to either give us that stock of Dilithium, or something equivalent. One person has suggested they give us Dilithium, but flag said Dilithium as untradeable, that way the concern of people flooding the market with free Dilithium isn't an issue.
Edit: Another perk I'd take: Give me the equivalent of the dilithium in C-Store points. Or, to make it easier, give us enough C-Points to buy a VA ship token. Then, we can decide what we want to do with them.
They could gate it so it's say 1 per month per account or something, that would stop (or severely limit) the exploiting. They could flag the dilithium as untradable. They could withhold the award until you reached a certain level, or meter it out as you level (10,000 at spawn, 10,000 at Lt Cmdr, etc). so you couldn't just spam new characters and then shuffle the dilithium off via the exchange, etc.
It's just that taking it away for everyone is the easy/lazy way out since it requires little to no programming, and it also furthers their goal of controlling the economy, creating a scarcity of dilithium so people pay in the Cstore to hop on the currency exchange. Convenient that.
Why should we be mad at the "abusers"? To begin with, unless I am missing something, they were not really abusing the system. It was designed to give rewards at VA. The only reason that low level characters are getting the reward is due to the shift in the economy. If these "abusers" were smart enough to foresee that then more credit to them.
If Cryptic wanted to stop people from making low level characters to get dilithium, all they had to do is start awarding the emblems at VA instead of when the character was created. Clearly the abuse was not the overriding reason the emblems were removed.
I was looking forward to the emblems. I do think Cryptic should replace it with an equivalent amount of dilithium. I do not blame the "abusers" though. That is just an excuse because they could have modified the game to give out the emblems without being so easily exploited.
Bad idea since it undermines the value of the Borg Salvage as a reward for doing STF's.
I thought awarding the emblems/dilithuim at VA was how it was. Just make it so you have to make VA to collect the 500 day dilithium reward. Then the worst that can happen for exploitation is for people to start a new toon and level to VA. If they wanna farm dilithium like that, so be it. But i think we should still recieve the amount of dilithium equal to 250 emblems per VA on our accounts.
I hope we can ge a change to this, enough people postabout it, then maybe they will look into fixing it back. But in the end, I hope I don't get punished for not making it to 500 days soon enough.
NOTE TO CRYPTIC: If we cannot get the dilithium, can we get the above mentioned fix with C-store points. (For those of us who have used our VA ship token already.) This is actually is as good as dilithium to me. And can be an excellent fix for those of us who have spent our VA token. And It actually expands 500 day rewards for you, you can get a range of purchases which may peak interest instead of just getting nothing. Maybe if you have spent your VA token, then your will recieve an extra 400 C-Point Stipend for the month if you have a VA. After 500 loyal days, I think this would be a fitting reward. You already give a stipend, how bout an extra C-Point stipend at 500 days instead of a VA token.
Then those of us who have ALREADY used our VA token, but have not made, or made 500 days after the removal of emblems, can actually get something instead of nothing.
So to sum it up.
Replacement for the 250 Emblems: You will recieve a VA ship token when you reach VA. Plus as an added bonus, you will recieve an extra 400 C-Points.
(Players who have VA or VA's upon the transition of F2P (Tribble) to the live sever (Holodeck), will be awarded a one time amount of 400 C-Points per VA.)
Something to this effect, obviously you guys will have to tweak it to make it viable, But maybe a litlle c-points? Or maybe a one time acoount wide 400 C-Points for 500 days.
Keep in mind that the following players may have possibly already received their 250 emblems. I would not imagine they didn't, since they pretty much been around since STO went live: Here is the link of the podcast that explains the 500 vet reward solution - Chalked that one up to Jupiter Force Peregrine Falcon.
http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/13562/full-speed-ahead-stoked-102/
Here is a crude transcript of what was said:
"And... I'm going to claim credit for this one, even though I've been told it wasn't my idea originally. Is that, those 250 emblems that they took away from us at the 500 Vet Reward, THEY PUT THE VA TOKEN THERE. SO THAT MEANS THAT NOW, WE ESSENTIALLY HAVEN'T LOST ANYTHING. The subscribers, when we go to Free to play live, we haven't lost anything. We play the game just as we did before, we, except that now we also have the DOS system, which I heard some people like, you get to VA, you get your ship token, everythings done." - Peregrine Falcon / Jupiterbroadcasting STOKED 102
No Offense to Peregrine Falcon personally, but that solution that Cryptic provided is not:
A) A fair solution that covers all STO players that have reached their 500 VET Reward
C) No viable reason for its removal before Dec and January 17th F2P launch, except some obscure fear of scam.
D) How can you give back something that previously existed and call it a fair exchange (Talking about VA Token offers PRELAUNCH)
E) The VA Token is rumored to be given at 600 vet reward and not the 500 vet reward (which is insane)
F) The ACTUAL 500 Vet reward is now considered to be in a virtual LIMBO
G) VA Token is recently a redundancy in that once you have already previously obtained it you get royally shafted - 1 VA Token is not even an equivalent reward to the 250 emblems, which many could have used to get top tier gear before F2P launch
H) VA Tokens are useless for those players who BOUGHT a CStore Vessel via the CStore - speaking of the retrofits - unless of course Cryptic made those harder by linking them to Dilithium, if thats the case then thats bad business since many shell out a decent amount of cash for their MVA Escorts etc...
I) Do not state that essentially we have NOT lost anything, you're wrong, many will lose out BIG time
J) A suitable and valuable replacement should be considered - there was postings here about a unique BO of some sort with great traits, I'm not talking about the referral program lame BO
K) Here is a better deal, give us the TR-116 Rifle, make it very rare (Purple), with slightly better stats bound and unreplaceble and perhaps the referral BO or a few cstore points for good measure to sweeten the pot
I just want Cryptic to be fair regarding this matter, that something can be offered that will compensate those of us that LUCKED out, but that will not hurt the economy of the game.
Then Peregrine gets excited about the addition of something that does absolutely nothing for anyone who hasn't recieved the 250 emblems. Well Peregrine, You just took credit for something in my opinon sucks
If it seems like I am targeting Jupiter Force, I guess I sort of am, you guys have your own show. It comes with the territory. If you want to try to talk for the STO community, I guess you better watch what you say.
As mentioned above, a fair soloution will give something to everyone. Cryptic knows anyone after the tokens were taken away, up until F2P lauches, gets nothing. Why? Cause you will already have a VA token, you get one on holodeck now right now just for making VA. We all know this. So basically, as it is right now, "Perigrine Falcons way" after F2P goes live, if you are a 500 day Vet, you get a shiny VA ship token, unless you already have or used one.
Did you get that. They are taking away a reward right, and replacing it with another reward they took away from a different part of the game. So if they are replacing a VA ship token at 500 days to make up for the one we will lose for just making VA, then what replaces the 250 Emblems. It can't be the token, that replces the token right?!?
Really though, they should think of some better long-term replacements. The veterans rewards are one of the few reasons to pay for a subscription and they are not a great incentive as they are now.
1600, divided by two (they cost 500 emblems on holo, and the vet reward was 250, or half of 500) =800 C-points.
Anyways i just wanted to let my voice be heard, every vote against this is a step in a better direction.