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What's with all this "Pay to Win"?
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Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Since the F2P announcement I have repeatedly seen comments on the forums and in game, that keep mentioning this new "pay to win" scenario. There really isn't anything to win within this game. It's not like at end game, you get a prize from Cryptic in the mail. PVP is hardly worth bragging about (not to mention hardly working if at all), and I believe I read somewhere that leaderboards will be coming in the future, however, it is just a number and rank. Big deal. These new ships, devices, etc., basically all of these things that are giving players some "enormous" advantage over other players; do they really make that much of a difference that would make a person "win" faster or get more items than others? Is this stemming from a praise/bragging rights stand point, like "I won, I'm the best"? IMO it is just silly to carry on about such a petty thing. The forum topics pertaining to this make it sound like its the end all. I simply fail to see what there is to "win" within this game, and I have been playing since open beta. 
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btw, i agree completely with what you said
Overall...
My preference would be something like:
STF Gear/PvP Gear/Purchased Gear (10% edge over basic badge gear)
Elite STF Gear/Rated PvP Gear (15% edge)
If people make content silly, facerolling easy via purchase, it feels cheap. And if it tempts me into buying it and I do it, I run out of things to do.
So, really, there. That's the extent of my problem with it and why I don't like it in Zynga games and would like some side quests/hidden quests/legendary grinds/in-game only rewards.
PERSONALLY I don't care about balance a whole lot AS A PLAYER. My biggest concern there is if you're pushing the idea that people should be able to level, gear, and do everything through PvP because it makes life harder on the player who just wants toplay; if the game isn't marketed as offering that, have at it with P2W for the most part.
My big thing beyond that is, assuming I have the money and give into the temptation, I still want things to work for and do. I don't want to feel like I can pay to NOT bother logging in. I'd like the OPTION to earn everything in game first, frankly, but even assuming I buy everything, I don't want that to leave me with nothing to do or work for or the purchase devalues itself.
My shields were up before I posted this...I entered the warzone prepared
Indeed, opinions are like ***holes, everyone has one, and most of them stink. I have my febreeze in hand
Those who never want to pay a dime for something, either on the C-store or the exchange can get it through gameplay.
Those who don't want to get something through gameplay or from other players can get it on the C-store
Those don't want to get something on the C-store or through gameplay can get it through exchange.
In this way, time and money become interchangable.
If a MMO is truly designed RIGHT, then it should not matter how someone got the gear.
I have played F2P games where cash shop gear is so powerful they make everything you can get in game irrelevent and in some cases, even your build becomes irrelevent. For a time you can just drop a couple hundred $/£/etc and just plow through the content like it wasn't even there. However content updates are few and far between because they're to busy re-colouring an old item and bumping up the stats for you to buy. When new content is released, it gets balanced against all this crazy powerful gear and newer/poorer players can't access the new content because they don't have the gear or don't get into groups, not to mention PvP where they just end up face down in a matter of seconds. The playerbase then dwindles as people either avoid the game or quit because they'd rather pay a subscription to get full access to a game.
Granted that's a worst case scenario and STO is a long way from that but it does happen, more often than you think. The games put out by our new overlords at PW are closer to this too so I do wonder where STO is headed now.
OP, you made a point about those who feel the need to beat others to feel big and clever and I agree with you there, but the reason I venture into the competative elements of any game, such as PvP is for the challenge. I'm not bothered about losing because someone has paid a whole lot more than me, I'm bothered about being bored because of it.
Let us not forget the ever changing c-store policy. We were told this wouldn't happen (albeit a long time ago) but some feel they've been lied to, though I'm not too sure myself on this. Also the free in-game methods for these more powerful ships as promised by dstahl havn't surfaced and are not likely to at all going on the information available on the economy revamp, on this issue I personally feel I have been lied to.
As for what there is to "win", I don't entirely agree but that is way too much of a grey and hazy area for me to venture before I've had my fourth cup of tea of the morning.
Amen. I agree with you and the op. So I guess we alll. Better put on flame gear. But seriously to me these fourms seemed to have turned into a piis and moan board and a I hate cryptic board its sad really.
im not a fan of that either and id prefer they just kept it all in balance but they have chosen to go down this route and ill live with it.
There isn't any pvp in this game, so don't worry.
Well, first of all, pay to win is only logical in a F2P game. How else would they sell their TRIBBLE to the freeloaders? But yeah the advantages are slight and at the end of the day, good ships don't make bad players better. They're still bad players in good ships. As for your endgame comment, I kinda give it a sarcastic swing and ask, what endgame?
Open trolling admission.
Its not, he just knows the trolls like yourself will be crawling out of the woodwork.
Pay to win would effect PvP if good players pay for better items to give them that advantage..... a bad player can spend all they money they want on the best P2W gear and they will still be a bad player. As for it effecting PvP score boards... yes it will but then they are only there for inflating and rubbing ego's.
I just dont want to see a situation where we cant do STF's because the elite require us to have a certain type of ship... with certain types of equipment that you can only get from c-store or some sort of a mad 6 month emblem grind.
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response.
You're opinion is no different, maybe you should have sprayed yourself first? :P
In a f2p game im okey with buying itmes but they shouldent be better then anything you can get spending TIME in game they should be TIME savers ,ie in diffret f2p games you can buy a mount that cost tons of in game money (grind(taking time to get)) or you can save time by buying it for real cash. This is more how a cash shop should work in my book. It shouldent sell stuff that you cant get in game for spending your time etc.
it pretty much is the only endgame content.
I feel the same way. It's so overblown.
I feel compelled to post a submission for a New (tongue-firmly-planted-in-cheek) Title, for Star Trek Online based on the outcry that has developed from the .5 controversy...
(click on this link for appropriate background music..., then click back ...)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hYV-JSjpyU
Star Trek Online: The Good..., The Bad..., The Pay to Win...
And that has what to do with OP?
Given equal gear, equal skill, & equal builds, two people of the same level should be evenly matched. If one person has an extra Console Slot and an Extra Boff power, they won't be. If that difference is because one person has money and the other doesn't, it's pay to win, and that's the exact opposite of what we have been told the C-Store is for.
Now, the Devs, and many of their defenders keep saying "But there will be in-game methods of acquisition!"
That may be true, but until those methods are in place, it's still pay to win. The in-game method of acquisition needs to be in before the item goes live, or launch at the same time as the item. To do otherwise is to create an environment in which cash-light players are not enjoying the game as fully as the cash-heavy players.
That is unfair.
Now, it may not matter to you, you may be a strictly PvE kind of player, but to those of us who do PvP, even if it's only occasionally, it is a problem. And seeing as how Perfect World has a history of trying to bolster PvP game play to make Endgame play enjoyable, it will be a bigger problem moving forward as Free to Play launches, the KDF gets filled out, and PvP gets to be a bigger and bigger part of the game.
circular logic. if that was the case then theres no such thing as pay to win in any game thats ever existed or will ever exist
no they're not
when you pay for any form of advantage whatsoever you are paying to win
first nobody is a 'freeloader' thats an insult. second, its not logical at all just because its a free to play game. and simple: they can do their job properly and add things to the cstore that people actually will want. not booster TRIBBLE.
so.... you say that it wasn't an admission of trolling - when it was, and then go on to accuse the person stating that as a troll themselves. you might want to think before you talk next time
complete and utter circular logic there.
hes trying to provoke a reaction from people when its already demonstratable with basic math and common sense, that the new ships do in fact have advantages that free ships to not. hence they are by definition pay to win.
indeed. and you just described pay to win quite well
I seriously doubt they'll be coming up with ships fast enough to be that much of an issue. They have decided to go down this route so put on your big boy plants and lets get to playin.
just take a deep breath and relax