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Tier x.5 Ships a wasted opportunity to enhance the diversity of gameplay?
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Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
TL;DR: Version: Hybrid ships similar to the Excelsior or the MultiVector Advanced Escort at all tiers would give us a lot of new, interesting gameplay options and could be combined with the goal to increase the lifetime of any given ship type.
Long Version:
My thesis is that your ship choice and your career choice is effectively your "class". Startrek Online basically has 9 classes, seen this way:
What I would have done if I was tasked to create a bunch of ships for Tiers 2 through 4? I would have created new "hybrid" ships that effective boil down to new class combinations.
The possibility to build "hybrid" ship is the primary appeal of the Bird of Prey, but the bird of prey is KDF only, and its specific stats limited its viability in most hybrid roles.
Currently, starting at Tier 2, most ships are designed to have a primary Bridge Officer class. This class is given two bridge officer slots of that class, and the highest slot is devoted to this class.
Over time, this means each ship has a strong focus on one class of Bridge Officer powers.
But we see variations of this models at Tier 5 - we have Science/Engineering hybrids, Engineering/Tactical hybrids and Tactical/Science hybrids. But this is only done at Tier 5. So Tier 5 is still the mythical place to be if you truly want to experience new types of gameplay.
What if we would instead start doing this earlier, introducing such hybrids at Tier 2?
Basic Template is that every hybrid ship has a primary, a secondary and a tertiary class.
This would be the end result:
Science/Tactical Ship Variant - Reconnaissance Vessel
Science/Engineering Ship Variant - Long Range Exploration Vessel
Engineering/Tactical Ship Variant - Tactical Cruiser
Engineering/Science Ship Variant - Exploration Cruiser
Tactical/EngineeringShip Variant - Heavy Escort
Tactical/Science Ship Variant - Scout Vessel
The upcoming refits could simply be a ship of the lower tier raised by 1 and with a new hybridization.
This would mean we have a mechanical ground framework for 24 new ships (18 for Tier 2 to Tier 4). It givies players more options what to play and encourages more variation. More incentive to create new characters or respec characters for different ships, and more ability to customize to your preference.
For PvE players, this could make certain career choices more attractive as well, as you are not forced to focus so heavily just on one set of powers. No ships become obsolete before the end of their tier.
Refits could simply be a lower tier ship made one tier higher with a specific hybrid role. This would allow people to play their favorite ship design for 2 tiers instead of just one.
Long Version:
My thesis is that your ship choice and your career choice is effectively your "class". Startrek Online basically has 9 classes, seen this way:
- Tactical Officer / Cruiser
- Tactical Officer / Escort
- Tactical officer / Science Vessel
- Engineering Officer / Cruiser
- Engineering Officer / Escort
- Engineering Officer / Science Vessel
- Science Officer / Escort
- Science Officer / Cruiser
- Science Officer / Science Vessel.
What I would have done if I was tasked to create a bunch of ships for Tiers 2 through 4? I would have created new "hybrid" ships that effective boil down to new class combinations.
The possibility to build "hybrid" ship is the primary appeal of the Bird of Prey, but the bird of prey is KDF only, and its specific stats limited its viability in most hybrid roles.
Currently, starting at Tier 2, most ships are designed to have a primary Bridge Officer class. This class is given two bridge officer slots of that class, and the highest slot is devoted to this class.
Over time, this means each ship has a strong focus on one class of Bridge Officer powers.
But we see variations of this models at Tier 5 - we have Science/Engineering hybrids, Engineering/Tactical hybrids and Tactical/Science hybrids. But this is only done at Tier 5. So Tier 5 is still the mythical place to be if you truly want to experience new types of gameplay.
What if we would instead start doing this earlier, introducing such hybrids at Tier 2?
Basic Template is that every hybrid ship has a primary, a secondary and a tertiary class.
- Tier 2: Lt.Primary, Ensign Tertiary, 2 x Ensign Secondary
- Tier 3: Lt.Cmdr Primary, Lt.Tertiary, Lt.Tactical, Ensign Secondary
- Tier 4: Cmdr Primary, Lt.Tertiary, 2 x Lt.Secondary
- Tier 5: Cmdr Primary, Lt.Cmdr Tactical, Lt.Tertiary, Lt.Primary, Ensign Secondary
This would be the end result:
Science/Tactical Ship Variant - Reconnaissance Vessel
- Tier 2: Lt.Science, Ensign Engineering, 2 x Ensign Tactical
- Tier 3: Lt.Cmdr Science, Lt.Engineering, Lt.Tactical, Ensign Tactical
- Tier 4: Cmdr Science, Lt.Engineering, 2 x Lt.Tactical
- Tier 5: Cmdr Science, Lt.Cmdr Tactical, Lt.Engineering, Lt.Science, Ensign Tactical
Science/Engineering Ship Variant - Long Range Exploration Vessel
- Tier 2: Lt.Science, 2 x Ensign Engineering, Ensign Tactical
- Tier 3: Lt.Cmdr Science, Lt.Engineering, Lt.Tactical, Ensign Science
- Tier 4: Cmdr Science, 2 x Lt.Engineering, Lt.Tactical
- Tier 5: Cmdr Science, Lt.Cmdr Engineering, Lt.Tactical, Lt.Science, Ensign Engineering
Engineering/Tactical Ship Variant - Tactical Cruiser
- Tier 2: Lt.Engineering, Ensign Science, 2 x Ensign Tactical
- Tier 3: Lt.Cmdr Engineering, Lt.Engineering, Lt.Science, Ensign Tactical
- Tier 4: Cmdr Engineering, 2x Lt.Engineering, 1 x Lt.Science
- Tier 5: Cmdr Engineering, Lt.Cmdr Tactical, Lt.Engineering, Lt.Science, Ensign Tactical
Engineering/Science Ship Variant - Exploration Cruiser
- Tier 2: Lt.Engineering, Ensign Tactical, 2 x Ensign Science
- Tier 3: Lt.Cmdr Engineering, Lt.Engineering, Lt.Tactical, Ensign Science
- Tier 4: Cmdr Engineering, 2x Lt.Tactical, 1 x Lt.Science
- Tier 5: Cmdr Engineering, Lt.Cmdr Science, Lt.Engineering, Lt.Tactical, Ensign Science
Tactical/EngineeringShip Variant - Heavy Escort
- Tier 2: Lt.Tactical, Ensign Science, 2 x Ensign Tactical
- Tier 3: Lt.Cmdr Tactical, Lt.Engineering, Lt.Science, Ensign Engineering
- Tier 4: Cmdr Tactical, 2x Lt.Engineering, 1 x Lt.Science
- Tier 5: Cmdr Tactical, Lt.Cmdr Engineering, Lt.Tactical, Lt.Science, Ensign Engineering
Tactical/Science Ship Variant - Scout Vessel
- Tier 2: Lt.Tactical, Ensign Tactical, 2 x Ensign Science
- Tier 3: Lt.Cmdr Tactical, Lt.Engineering, Lt.Science, Ensign Science
- Tier 4: Cmdr Tactical, 2x Lt.Science, 1 x Lt.Tactical
- Tier 5: Cmdr Tactical, Lt.Cmdr Science, Lt.Engineering, Lt.Tactical, Ensign Science
The upcoming refits could simply be a ship of the lower tier raised by 1 and with a new hybridization.
This would mean we have a mechanical ground framework for 24 new ships (18 for Tier 2 to Tier 4). It givies players more options what to play and encourages more variation. More incentive to create new characters or respec characters for different ships, and more ability to customize to your preference.
For PvE players, this could make certain career choices more attractive as well, as you are not forced to focus so heavily just on one set of powers. No ships become obsolete before the end of their tier.
Refits could simply be a lower tier ship made one tier higher with a specific hybrid role. This would allow people to play their favorite ship design for 2 tiers instead of just one.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
/10char
It would ttake some work to nail down the appropriate ships stats (hull, shield, maneuverability, and that sort of thing) but I think it would be worth the effort to maintain balance while still providing something interesting, fun, and new.
On a side note, in regards to this bogus tier x.5 business, it would have made so much more sense to just take a tier 2 ship and adjust it's stats to bring it in line with tier 3. If people liked that ship at tier 2, they could either play with existing balanced ships at the next tier or they could pay to keep on flying the older model that they liked. They could have repeated that all the way up to tier 5 to create so many more exciting options but instead they went with a sloppy looking money grab.
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe balance is overrated.
There is a lot they could have done that wouldn't have been blatantly unbalanced.
I will give you money for a T3 New Orleans class Science vessel with a Tactical lean as described above. Preferably with a T5 alternative with an equivalent but tier-appropriate BOff layout ala Excelsior/MVAE.
That is all.
To give people more ability to customize and find a play style unique to them. Cryptic says from itself that it's great strength are its customization options. This is a way to give it - and without having to break the games balance either.
It can also serve as material for future faction additions - give Romulans a unique mix of "hybrids" that makes them play notably differently from the rest.
I was actuall referring to your post directly above mine
Anyway it makes a whole lot of sense to me and I though of something somewhat similar a while back, even though my idea if implemented would no yield the exact same results as yours:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=3654985&postcount=32
particularly the last part shows this was primarily aimed at T5:
"The further away the ship's original tier is from T5, the more the refitted ship should differ in function and capabilites from "native" T5 ships of the same category."
GRR, I immedeatelly wanted to add someting but the server just let me down.
Anyway what I wanted to say was.
Whether something like the stuff I posted were done with existing ship models or new ones, at one tier or another would still make your idea and mine somewhat similar.
It took a while to get a reply, and the thread had already dropped off the first page.
I believe it is. I have always been an advocate of Scaled ship Tier and I have never hestitated to say it all over again. This game needs more diversity. Now they are going to make Tier 2/3 BoP's and can we use those models for our Tier 5 BoP? Bah.
This is going the wrong way.
I havent read all your post Mustrum. But I can tell you what I want:
Tier 2 Escort:
At Lieutenant Commander it stays as it is now. ->
Level up to Commander = Shield/hull/speed/consoles/stations scale up to match the akiras.
Level up to Captain = Shield/hull/speed/consoles/stations scale up to match the Defiant T4
.... you know what im getting at. This gives us all the options we nned.
End this scaling at RA level and let i.e. this ship be an equal to the Defiant Tier 5, without cloak. Compensation; 1 extra eng console.
my way would have been to release a new skin at the appropriate level and at the next tier up a brand new ship with a console.
so for example at tier 2, you get your new skin (ie the rhode island) and then release a full tier 3 ship with it. that would mean a player can play their favourite ship for 20 levels instead of just 10.
at tier 3, you get a new skin for akira for example, and a tier 4 akira ship.
lets jump to tier 4, and take the defiant for example. they release a new tier 4 defiant skin, and a tier 5 version. you may notice that at the moment there is no rear admiral versions of the defiant, or the galaxy or intrepid. if you want to remain competitive at RA you have to swap it out to another ship. considering how iconic these ships its not ideal to have to switch to an assault cruiser or fleet escort if you dont want them. releasing a RA ship means you can play the defiant for 20 levels from captain all the way to vice admiral.
at vice admiral level you then get to play either the tier 5 version you just bought above or you can go and get the one with the cloak. this gives you two different versions of the ship to choose from, and the removable console to add more even more options. (again the defiant at VA is great but if you dont want the cloak then you have lost a console for it. this method means you can ignore the cloak and keep that console slot. it just adds more variety.
this means no imbalance at all at any rank, players being able to play lower level ships that might be their favourites for longer and from captain 1 onwards you get to keep those iconic defiant's, intrepid's and galaxy's all the way to max rank without the need to swap one out for 10 levels and it increase the options at vice admiral.
i think that idea will please many, and probably wont anger anyone but i think they have missed the boat on that now. More importantly i think more people would spend money than on the x.5 versions they have now, which are still only really competitive at their own rank and have annoyed many people.
Maybe it's not on the agenda again, because "too powerful" is not a limitation anymore anyway. (Though I'd also disagree that such a BO layout would be "too powerful".)