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Galaxy-X's place in Starfleet?
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Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
So is the Galaxy-X refit something done to only a few ships, or is it a mainstream refit that Starfleet is planning on using with all Galaxy class ships in the future? I'm just curious as to the canon story take on the Galaxy-X from the Federation leadership's perspective. (Yes, I'm a true Trek nerd...)
For example, are ships like the U.S.S. Challenger under Captain Geordi LaForge and the U.S.S. Excalibur-A under Captain Mackenzie Calhoun going to recive the Galaxy-X treament, or will it only happen to ships that act as fleet flagships like the U.S.S. Victory for Battle Group Omega?
For example, are ships like the U.S.S. Challenger under Captain Geordi LaForge and the U.S.S. Excalibur-A under Captain Mackenzie Calhoun going to recive the Galaxy-X treament, or will it only happen to ships that act as fleet flagships like the U.S.S. Victory for Battle Group Omega?
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For gameplay reasons, the player gets to decide what their special needs are instead of Starfleet.
(It might even make logical sense to say the "normal" Galaxy is the Refit - a cheaper version of the Galaxy without saucer seperatioin capabilities introduced during the Dominion War, while the Galaxy-R is the "real" version.)
I'd have to agree with this. It's quite likely that the Galaxy X was designed as an experiment based on the accounts of Picard during his time travel experience with Q. Or an experiment to create a super weapon for a time of extreme conflict. Like say a war with the Klingons.
In any case I don't think the cloaking device is factory standard and is more of a bonus because the ship in the TNG Episode had one. I'm a big fan of the Galaxy IV, which is shown in a link in my signature. The ship was modified to fulfill a specific mission which later became a subtype of the Galaxy class.
if a ship gets heavily damaged in battle... it not only gets towed back to the fleetyards to be repaired it also gets a little upgrade while we are at it (think Enterprise E after Nemesis)
or just if the class gets to OLD to keep arround (Constitution refit ?)
...and actually the Galaxy X also has Saucer Seperation, just not in STO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-RKUvm3mQg
So, from a story perspective, it's a warship that's easy to make and hard to operate.
The saucer was recovered to keep the Veridians from eventually discovering it, and was put in storage somewhere like Qualor II or Utopia Planetia.
By time Riker became Admiral or left the USS Titan, he sparked interest in what's left of his old ship and restoring it to its former glory. But as the Klingon War was on the horizon, he eventually saw an opportunity to restore the ship for the coming war.
The saucer was restored and a redesigned secondary hull was built. (Note: the saucer's cannon and lance were built on the exterior of the ship, and most of the interior design changes would have been to the secondary hull.)
As an Admiral, Riker made it his flagship but also insisted the ship keep the name "Enterprise" and its "NCC1701D" designation, even though other ships have the same name (NCC1701E and later NCC1701F)
I agree with that line of logic. One of the Galaxys war used as a testbed for modifications including the spinal lance (fanboy superweapon that Japanese Anime so loves), and the addidional Warp Naccelle for additonal power to fire the weapon. Unfortunatly, in upgrading the ship to add the weapon, the design lost the ability to saucer separate (except in a warp core breach or other situation where the drive section is scuttled).
Picard barley saw anything of the ship from the outside and was more or less a civilian on board... where should he get any technical detail on wich any prototype should base?
I thing the ship is simply a variation like Excelsior standard/excelsior ent-b variant.
Or its the only "real" refit (I do not consider the ingame "Galaxy retrofit" as a refit at all, it has an ability wich is standard for any Galaxy in the series, its just a variant where for people who found out where the seperation-button is)... May be done by some Admirals for their flagships.
That they are en-par with the "standard" variation for gameplay reasons doesnt say anything from story perspective IMO.
Another Idea is that THEY are actually the "older" Galaxys wich couldnt be made up-to-date without the additional components, while the newer ones where build with more modern parts in the first place and didnt need those additions.
The one thing I'm sure about is that the GX isnt "factory standard" in any way, the whole way the designs is made screams for "refittet ship".
And the cloak.... well there shouldnt be Federation cloak in any way as long as the Rom. empire is still arround.
That Galaxy 4 design... well I dont really like it.... but if, it could be a funny alt.Skin for the GX.... A lot of people dont like the 3rd naceless... would be funny to have that Nebula-array as an alt.part for that.
My thought process was based on the idea that Picard would have filed a report concerning his experiences with Q which may have contained a vague description about the Galaxy X, nothing overly detailed but enough to inspire another to recreate the Galaxy X.
Pretty much.
Is the Excelsior - Lakota subtype exclusively produced by refiting an existing Excelsior or does starfleet build the subtype from scratch? I'm only asking because the answer for the Galaxy X being exclusively refit vs factory standard could be answered in the same way.
Funny and stylish.
I still dont buy that "based on Picards experience"-thing. Because of a vague description they build a new ship? And that happens to look and work EXACTLY that way?
No, Qs createt future was most likley based on a "really" possible future from the "all good things"-point on in wich the GX was build for the exact same reasons it was build in "our" timeline. Picard just happend to see it before that, I dont thing that those events had any effect on the creation of the GX.
Well since the Enterpise B was build in the "mk2" variant in the first place, my assumbtion "GX/G it is like Excelsior/exc-r" may be not that correct IF the GX just exists as a "refit" and not as a "factory model", wich I still believe.
I just meant that the "final pruducts" have a similar "relationship"....
its all there in the show if you really want to know lol, no speculation really needed
Plus, this gives it something specific in PvP, too, as a counterpoint to the Excelsior.
No all we know is that Riker happened to have a refitet Ent-D. Thats it.
Anything above it is speculation, including your conclusions. And speculation is what make Star Trek discussions fun.
This is my feeling, too. The Negh'var was first seen in All Good Things, and it came into existence in the prime timeline as well, and much earlier than the Galaxy-X. Even assuming Picard had the engineering know how to, say, recognize and remember the upgrades off a systems diagnostic display (which I'm willing to accept as possible), it still leaves the Negh'var which he only saw on a viewscreen.
Time travel in Star Trek is ruled by predestination. Take Yesterday's Enterprise- despite altering the timeline twice in ways that completely altered the political makeup of the quadrant, creating and then reverting the sort of militarized war-time Starfleet we'd see again in DS9, after both timeline changes the Galaxy class was still built, the Enterprise-D was still a Galaxy class ship, and it still had the same crew... right down to the bartender. It even managed, with radically different mission priorities, to stumble into the exact same place in the great vastness of space every time.
In that light, the Galaxy-X was pretty much going to happen.
I can see your point and accept that though I hate the idea of a predetermined future. Seems inescapable. Anyway the only thing that doesn't make sense in any examples presented thus far is that damn third nacelle.
In the TNG timeline Riker ordered the ship to go to warp 13. I don't pretend to understand warp drive because it's not real but from what little I do understand. The nacelles are a vital part of creating a warp field (I could be wrong). So having three nacelles and a larger or improved warpcore would allow the ship to reach speeds of warp 13.
Now in a timeline that has a vastly superior form of long distance / high speed propulsion, Quantum Slipstream the need for a third nacelle is brought into question.
Certainly you can say that much like the cloaking device, this ship has the third nacelle because the ship in the TNG episode had both of these things. And I'd agree, a Galaxy X wouldn't be a Galaxy X with out both things.
But if the design was brought about by war with the Klingons, wouldn't it make more sense to mount the Nebula sensor pad / pylon vs the third nacelle? I'm sure the extremely powerful sensors would be of far greater use.
Well, this isnt about "predetermindet future". Its simply about cause and effect. Means: What ever caused the difference between "all good things" and "our" timeline didnt effect the events that led to the GX design.
Also: look at the AGT-Uniforms. They were also seen in "the visitor" and the Voyager-finale. Those are 3 prety diffrent futures, although they had all similaritys (bad relationships with the Klingons for example, and the uniforms....)
The diffrences simply didnt effect the guy (wich wasnt intrestet in politics or the death of Captain Sisko or the Ent-Ds fate) that at some point said "well lets make the uniforms look that way"... or "lets build the GX".
Not-"predetermindet future" doesnt mean the future is randomly completly diffrent. Especially if events are already set in motion that LED to this future.
Same for the Yesterdays enterprise-example, althogh it is a little unreasonable here. But most crewmembers already were born when the ent-C went missing, the diffrent situation must not have effectet the events that made Picard Captain of the Enterprise, and he may have chosen his crew simply for the same reason in both timelines.
Well it has been mentioned several times that warp 10 is "the barrier", we cant travel faster, at last with warp technologie. (ignoring one "special" voy episode for a moment.
Well, of course, the AGT-Ent WENT at warp 13, reasons may that they simply used the warp scale on slipstream technologie for whatever reason or simply made up a new scale like between TOS and TNG.
Well that is simething I'm not very happy about: In AGT the Romulans were conqered by the Klingons, and the thing that preventet starfleet from using cloak was a treaty with the romulans. So I always asumed... and I think thats what was intendet in AGT, that Cloak is a regular piece of equipment on starfleet ships in that time.
Since the Romulans are not conqered in STO, the GX simply shouldnt have cloak.
Well who said that the GX is conectet with that war? Relationships with the Klingons were bad in AGT but they were not at war.
While the Klingon Empire has not finished off the Romulan Star Empire in STO the way it did in AGT, for all intents and purposes they have. The Star Empire is only a fragment of what it was. Between the internal split, the destruction of the Twin Homeworlds, and the invasion by the Klingons, the events foreshadowed in AGT has more or less come to pass.
Since may of the features in AGT, "The Visitor" (DS9), and "Endgame" (VOY) such as uniforms, ships, social-political relations are similar, it can be safely assumed that in some way shape or form, while the exact future is unwritten, certain things will come into fruition. Sooner or later humanity would have developed the Atomic Bomb because of World War II. The research on rocketry would set the stage for someone achieveing spaceflight. It was only a matter who did it first, and when.
The saucer could have been recovered and restored to a space-worthy condition. All it would need is a new and redesigned secondary hull and the additional mounts for cannons, torpedoes, and lance along with a certain Vice Admiral insisting it keep its name and "NCC-1701-D" designation.
The saucer was specifically stated beyond any hope of salvage.
Anyway, there's no room in naval tradition for two ships of the same name to be active in the same fleet at the same time. The US ship naming code has changed a few times, but since its original passing one rule has remained the same: No two ships may bear the same name. There have been six USS Enterprises in the US Navy, but never at the same time. European navies are closer to Starfleet, sometimes ships of the same name to also have the same pennant number, but the same rule applies. HMS Vanguard is one of the most reused naval ship names in the world, and manages to cover just about every way a ship can be cleared out for a successor. Some were broken up, some were destroyed, a couple were sold off, and one was renamed.
There are some very rare exceptions, usually caused by unusual circumstances. In the Continental Navy during the Revolutionary War, there was an Enterprise and a USS Enterprise. One was a commissioned naval vessel that was retroactively given the USS prefix, the other was a privateer vessel that was temporarily used by the navy. It kept its name, but was never given a commission and never would have been, so it isn't entitled to the USS prefix.
Why does everybody seem to be of the opinion they HAD to include characters of the Series into the Gx-background? Did Kirk play any role in the development of the Galaxy class? No. Why should he?
That doesnt mean the treaty isnt intact any more.
And, for puere logic, if it isnt why do only 2 ships had cloak? The cloaking device was always very easy includet into any ship, Scotty needet just 10 minutes to include the one they stole in TOS into the ENT. The Defaint wasnt build to use a cloak still they did just put it into it, the "pegasus"-cloak worked prety fast on the ENT-D.
I wouldnt want that to happen; the (offscreen) reason why the federation didnt use cloak was simply that "stalking arround" that way doesnt fit into the Federation, and thats IMO a very good reason. But for pure logik, eigther they use cloak or they dont, not just 2 classes.
Well of course the salvage technologie could have been inproved what would make it possible to salvage the saucer.
On the other hand.... I dont think they simply led a saucer full of new federation technologie arround for every Klingon, Romulan, Ferengie or Breen to find, espacially close to a civilisation in the same system that just needs to get into the basic space-travel age to salvage a ship with that technologie... until they develop new technics for salvage.
They most lilkey destroyed the saucer (that has been mentioned in several novels but is nin canon; still its reasonable...)
On the topic of not leaving things laying around where they could cause Prime Directive violations, nobody ever seems to have dealt with Kirk's grave. From the standpoint of an early spaceflight civilization just exploring a neighbor in the same system, finding an alien grave is just as big of a kick in the beanbag as finding a rusting hulk full of technology you'll need centuries to figure out.