ahh.. i've been itching to do this note lol.
Air Mechanics of Boeing 787. yes, it's small explaining of Boeing 787's Wings.
the wings you see in Pictures or Videos on ground are straight level, but when it's takeoff time, the wings bend upward for easier takeoff and high chance of drag reduction you see, air flows very fast with bended wing as wing is bended upward, the air hits it, splitting into 2 creates better and fast, speedy lift and drag reduction at same time. upper air goes over the bended wing, allowing the Aircraft to get fast speed. while the down air goes under the bended wing to allow 10x times the lift, allowing it to get off ground with little room. that's why 787 has them. because the wings are thin, wings and body is made of composite materials.
Congrats. You've explained how a wing works. Of course it might of been easier to copy and paste Bernoulli's principle and laws of fluid dynamics. You seem to be good with copy and paste so it might of been an easier route.
As far as the wing flexing, it has nothing to do with increased lift. In fact aerodynamically the wing is really nothing special. There are really no new or advanced options on it. What makes the wing unique is simply the use of advanced materials and construction. Allowing the wing to be longer, lighter, and with a reduced wing cross section (Ie: less upper camber) In simple terms a thin long wing produces more lift and less drag then a short fat wing. The side result is the wing, being less ridged flexes more under load. And also gives the wings a kind of pseudo set of winglets at maximum load.
I thought that was the case but it has been a long time since I studied aerodynamics.
Admittedly my expertise on this is limited at best. So if i'm wrong id actually enjoy being proved wrong on it, assuming they can provide the math to back it up. It would be a fun conversation.
But that aside, we are really taking basic concepts here. Lift is generated 90 degrees to the plane of the wing. So a wing at high flex would actually produce less lift then a perfectly level one. Its the same reason why an aircraft looses lift in a banking turn. Vertical lift gets split unto vertical and horizontal lift, reducing the overall vertical lift.
And yea, i'm just that kind of a nerd. Sorry folks, Supers normal silliness aside. I get touchy about aeronautics.
And for some reason while reading this, while trying to figure out the specifics of why I was reading it, I pictured an airplane making the Voyager nacelle folding up clicking and clanking before aiming down the right runway with the warp charging up noise, culminating with it whipping by with a thunderous bang and flash.
And suddenly I realize I no longer wish to patronize the airline industry.
And for some reason while reading this, while trying to figure out the specifics of why I was reading it, I pictured an airplane making the Voyager nacelle folding up clicking and clanking before aiming down the right runway with the warp charging up noise, culminating with it whipping by with a thunderous bang and flash.
And suddenly I realize I no longer wish to patronize the airline industry.
That might make for a very interesting plane some day. Or not...
Probably the same mechanics; I'm not a physics major, so I can't be certain.
Although flying an aircraft upside-down is, at least according to the guides at the Udvar-Hazy Annex of the National Air and Space Museum, is how Boeing sold the first 707s. (The pilot was actually performing a barrel roll against orders. When the pubilicist saw it, he, rather embarrassed, turned around to the airline execs to apologize, only to see them filling out orders.)
And for some reason while reading this, while trying to figure out the specifics of why I was reading it, I pictured an airplane making the Voyager nacelle folding up clicking and clanking before aiming down the right runway with the warp charging up noise, culminating with it whipping by with a thunderous bang and flash.
The Navy actually has aircraft that do that, more likely to make space for a full complement of carrier-based aircraft (don't know if the F-35C has that feature - probably does).
Personally, I never figured out why the Intrepid-class has that feature, other than Rule of Cool. The Klingon Bird of Prey does this at least to differentiate between cruising speed (wings level), attack (wings down) and landing (wings raised high, seen only in ST III and IV). On the Intrepid, it just seems unneccessary.
Personally, I never figured out why the Intrepid-class has that feature, other than Rule of Cool. The Klingon Bird of Prey does this at least to differentiate between cruising speed (wings level), attack (wings down) and landing (wings raised high, seen only in ST III and IV). On the Intrepid, it just seems unneccessary.
Here are some theories on Voyager's tilting warp nacelles (of course, the real reason is to make the ship look cooler...But these are quite convincing):
The warp nacelles Voyager is the first ship to have foldable nacelles and pylons, at least the first ship we know of. "Because Voyager employs a new folding wing-and-nacelle configuration, warp fields may no longer have a negative impact on habitable worlds, as established in TNG." This sentence from the Star Trek Voyager Technical Guide V1.0 is actually the only hint that the folding pylons may prevent the subspace damage of TNG: "Force of Nature". It was never mentioned on screen.
Another theory is that the efficiency of the warp field can be increased if it is continually tilted as the speed rises, in a similar fashion as on the F-111 and other aircraft with variable wing positions. However, the existing shots of Voyager in space don't make any sense, since only two angles of the nacelle pylons can be observed: 0° (horizontal) for impulse flight, and about 35° as soon as the ship goes to warp, remaining constant irrespective of the speed. While it makes sense for an aircraft to have just two wing positions for slow and for fast hypersonic flight, Voyager's warp drive is offline at impulse anyway, hence not requiring any specific nacelle position. It is not evident why the nacelles are folded up at all every time the ship goes to warp, and why they are not just fixed in the warp position.
The warp nacelles Voyager is the first ship to have foldable nacelles and pylons, at least the first ship we know of. "Because Voyager employs a new folding wing-and-nacelle configuration, warp fields may no longer have a negative impact on habitable worlds, as established in TNG." This sentence from the Star Trek Voyager Technical Guide V1.0 is actually the only hint that the folding pylons may prevent the subspace damage of TNG: "Force of Nature". It was never mentioned on screen.
Another theory is that the efficiency of the warp field can be increased if it is continually tilted as the speed rises, in a similar fashion as on the F-111 and other aircraft with variable wing positions. However, the existing shots of Voyager in space don't make any sense, since only two angles of the nacelle pylons can be observed: 0° (horizontal) for impulse flight, and about 35° as soon as the ship goes to warp, remaining constant irrespective of the speed. While it makes sense for an aircraft to have just two wing positions for slow and for fast hypersonic flight, Voyager's warp drive is offline at impulse anyway, hence not requiring any specific nacelle position. It is not evident why the nacelles are folded up at all every time the ship goes to warp, and why they are not just fixed in the warp position.
I personally favor the second one, since the Intrepids were probably already in service before the TNG's "Force of Nature." That is, of course, assuming that the variable pylons weren't introduced later.
Personal theory here, but it's possible that, in universe, the original Intrepid looked very much like Rick Sternbach's original concept model, and later ships were redesigned into the familiar silhouette. A remote possibility, but it's happened before, both in universe and in real life.
I thought the nacelles just moved because fans like the way the Klingon BoP wings moved and they wanted to milk it. :rolleyes:
I figured that they wanted the nacelles down to act as wings when they landed on a planet, went through a thick nebula, etc. Considering their first mission was to go through the cloudy Badlands, that's not a bad idea.
I also read the thing about warp fields being "safe". I'm surprised they never mentioned it in the show, it was a neat idea. I'm surprised they made the delta flyer instead of using the aeroshuttle, also. A lot of the choices made in voyager were
I thought the nacelles just moved because fans like the way the Klingon BoP wings moved and they wanted to milk it. :rolleyes:
I figured that they wanted the nacelles down to act as wings when they landed on a planet, went through a thick nebula, etc. Considering their first mission was to go through the cloudy Badlands, that's not a bad idea.
I also read the thing about warp fields being "safe". I'm surprised they never mentioned it in the show, it was a neat idea. I'm surprised they made the delta flyer instead of using the aeroshuttle, also. A lot of the choices made in voyager were
The Voyager team made some really weird decisions with the show, such as not showing any sort of struggle to survive so long from the federation. Also, they seemed to spend a great deal of time NOT going at warp. I can understand Voyager not trying to spend 75 years going at warp 9.975 would save energy probably, but going at sublight speeds so much of the time?!!
I would also have liked an explanation as to why Voyager didn't head for the Bajoran wormhole, which should be much closer to them than Earth. They could have easily shaved off 20 or 30 years from the journey. Not to mention they would have avoided Borg space, which they KNEW was pretty much in their direct path. It would have been nice if they had had a couple of lines of dialogue in the second episode or something.
'So, should we head for the Bajoran wormhole?'
'No, we can't risk the wormhole collapsing before we reach it'.
I figured that they wanted the nacelles down to act as wings when they landed on a planet, went through a thick nebula, etc. Considering their first mission was to go through the cloudy Badlands, that's not a bad idea.
I have a few issues with that; even for those of use without physics backgrounds, Voyager's "wings" are noticably too small for a vessel Voyager's size to of much use in aerodynamics. The ships streamline shape probably is of more consequence, and one could explain its flight characteristics in the same way that a lifiting body aircraft works. Otherwise, the Klingon Bird of Prey is more aerodynamic looking than the Intrepid.
I would also have liked an explanation as to why Voyager didn't head for the Bajoran wormhole, which should be much closer to them than Earth. They could have easily shaved off 20 or 30 years from the journey.
Real world answer: the writers didn't want to be stepping on DS9's toes with Dominion stories, I suspect.
In Universe Answer: Stellar cartography was on the fritz, and likely under/unmanned before Seven arrived.
Real world answer: the writers didn't want to be stepping on DS9's toes with Dominion stories, I suspect.
In Universe Answer: Stellar cartography was on the fritz, and likely under/unmanned before Seven arrived.
All they needed was one or two lines just to say why they weren't gonna go to the Bajoran wormhole. They could have made up anything.
In universe response: Voyager didn't have a stellar cartography lab before Seven. Voyager didn't have many maps of the Delta Quadrant anyways. They could easily work out where the mouth of the wormhole is, just by looking at sensor data/maps of the gamma quadrant, of which they almost certainly had from DS9 etc. I don't think finding the wormhole was the issue. I would say that perhaps they didn't want to risk the wormhole collapsing, they might have just heard about the dominion threat a few days before they left or whatever.
Also, another thought just occured to me, some time in Season 6 or 7, if you add up all the lightyears they have traveled, you can see that Voyager had actually entered the Beta Quadrant. That could have made a pretty good episode. I mean, I'm sure they would have celebrated once they were out of the delta quadrant!
Also, another thought just occured to me, some time in Season 6 or 7, if you add up all the lightyears they have traveled, you can see that Voyager had actually entered the Beta Quadrant. That could have made a pretty good episode. I mean, I'm sure they would have celebrated once they were out of the delta quadrant!
You're not the only one; I've seen a few site that mention that fact. And I consider that one of the great missed moments of that show. The crew could have celebrated that "Yes, we're in the Beta Quadrant, we're close to home," and then had an Oh TRIBBLE moment when they start picking up Romulan signals - or even see one of their ships.
The Romulans are one of the classic, and most underutilized, villians in Star Trek and they would have made great villians as Voyager attempted to circumnavigate that Empire - because you know the Romulans wouldn't haven't been pleased to have a Federation starship travelling through their space - hovering near the border.
Another good story telling device would have been having the Voyager crew negotiate with the Klingons for travel into their space. Just because the Klingons are allies to the Federation, and have allowed Federation ships to travel to a few of their worlds, doesn't mean they would have allowed one to travel entirely through their space.
Comments
As far as the wing flexing, it has nothing to do with increased lift. In fact aerodynamically the wing is really nothing special. There are really no new or advanced options on it. What makes the wing unique is simply the use of advanced materials and construction. Allowing the wing to be longer, lighter, and with a reduced wing cross section (Ie: less upper camber) In simple terms a thin long wing produces more lift and less drag then a short fat wing. The side result is the wing, being less ridged flexes more under load. And also gives the wings a kind of pseudo set of winglets at maximum load.
Admittedly my expertise on this is limited at best. So if i'm wrong id actually enjoy being proved wrong on it, assuming they can provide the math to back it up. It would be a fun conversation.
But that aside, we are really taking basic concepts here. Lift is generated 90 degrees to the plane of the wing. So a wing at high flex would actually produce less lift then a perfectly level one. Its the same reason why an aircraft looses lift in a banking turn. Vertical lift gets split unto vertical and horizontal lift, reducing the overall vertical lift.
And yea, i'm just that kind of a nerd. Sorry folks, Supers normal silliness aside. I get touchy about aeronautics.
This might help: http://xckd.com/803/
Hahahha, that's the comic I was thinking of!
What the heck is this thing supposed to be, a bird?
Anyway, with rising terrorist threat, I'd think todays passenger planes would be more like this:
http://warisboring.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/ac-130-1.jpg
The following images perfectly explain the above image
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/osubuckeye/AC130Gunship.png
Yes, you are
http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0905/ac-130-spectre-demotivational-poster-1242607783.jpg
http://military-power.net/images/Motivation/ac130-2.jpg
And suddenly I realize I no longer wish to patronize the airline industry.
Well...have you ever wondered how birds can glide for hours on end with little to no effort?
That might make for a very interesting plane some day. Or not...
I thought they just got malleted into a shallow orbit.
Miniature Jet Packs. I'm sorry to spoil the myth. It's not wing shape nor patches of hot air providing lift.
Probably the same mechanics; I'm not a physics major, so I can't be certain.
Although flying an aircraft upside-down is, at least according to the guides at the Udvar-Hazy Annex of the National Air and Space Museum, is how Boeing sold the first 707s. (The pilot was actually performing a barrel roll against orders. When the pubilicist saw it, he, rather embarrassed, turned around to the airline execs to apologize, only to see them filling out orders.)
The Navy actually has aircraft that do that, more likely to make space for a full complement of carrier-based aircraft (don't know if the F-35C has that feature - probably does).
Personally, I never figured out why the Intrepid-class has that feature, other than Rule of Cool. The Klingon Bird of Prey does this at least to differentiate between cruising speed (wings level), attack (wings down) and landing (wings raised high, seen only in ST III and IV). On the Intrepid, it just seems unneccessary.
Here are some theories on Voyager's tilting warp nacelles (of course, the real reason is to make the ship look cooler...But these are quite convincing):
I personally favor the second one, since the Intrepids were probably already in service before the TNG's "Force of Nature." That is, of course, assuming that the variable pylons weren't introduced later.
Personal theory here, but it's possible that, in universe, the original Intrepid looked very much like Rick Sternbach's original concept model, and later ships were redesigned into the familiar silhouette. A remote possibility, but it's happened before, both in universe and in real life.
I figured that they wanted the nacelles down to act as wings when they landed on a planet, went through a thick nebula, etc. Considering their first mission was to go through the cloudy Badlands, that's not a bad idea.
I also read the thing about warp fields being "safe". I'm surprised they never mentioned it in the show, it was a neat idea. I'm surprised they made the delta flyer instead of using the aeroshuttle, also. A lot of the choices made in voyager were
The Voyager team made some really weird decisions with the show, such as not showing any sort of struggle to survive so long from the federation. Also, they seemed to spend a great deal of time NOT going at warp. I can understand Voyager not trying to spend 75 years going at warp 9.975 would save energy probably, but going at sublight speeds so much of the time?!!
I would also have liked an explanation as to why Voyager didn't head for the Bajoran wormhole, which should be much closer to them than Earth. They could have easily shaved off 20 or 30 years from the journey. Not to mention they would have avoided Borg space, which they KNEW was pretty much in their direct path. It would have been nice if they had had a couple of lines of dialogue in the second episode or something.
'So, should we head for the Bajoran wormhole?'
'No, we can't risk the wormhole collapsing before we reach it'.
I have a few issues with that; even for those of use without physics backgrounds, Voyager's "wings" are noticably too small for a vessel Voyager's size to of much use in aerodynamics. The ships streamline shape probably is of more consequence, and one could explain its flight characteristics in the same way that a lifiting body aircraft works. Otherwise, the Klingon Bird of Prey is more aerodynamic looking than the Intrepid.
Real world answer: the writers didn't want to be stepping on DS9's toes with Dominion stories, I suspect.
In Universe Answer: Stellar cartography was on the fritz, and likely under/unmanned before Seven arrived.
All they needed was one or two lines just to say why they weren't gonna go to the Bajoran wormhole. They could have made up anything.
In universe response: Voyager didn't have a stellar cartography lab before Seven. Voyager didn't have many maps of the Delta Quadrant anyways. They could easily work out where the mouth of the wormhole is, just by looking at sensor data/maps of the gamma quadrant, of which they almost certainly had from DS9 etc. I don't think finding the wormhole was the issue. I would say that perhaps they didn't want to risk the wormhole collapsing, they might have just heard about the dominion threat a few days before they left or whatever.
Also, another thought just occured to me, some time in Season 6 or 7, if you add up all the lightyears they have traveled, you can see that Voyager had actually entered the Beta Quadrant. That could have made a pretty good episode. I mean, I'm sure they would have celebrated once they were out of the delta quadrant!
You're not the only one; I've seen a few site that mention that fact. And I consider that one of the great missed moments of that show. The crew could have celebrated that "Yes, we're in the Beta Quadrant, we're close to home," and then had an Oh TRIBBLE moment when they start picking up Romulan signals - or even see one of their ships.
The Romulans are one of the classic, and most underutilized, villians in Star Trek and they would have made great villians as Voyager attempted to circumnavigate that Empire - because you know the Romulans wouldn't haven't been pleased to have a Federation starship travelling through their space - hovering near the border.
Another good story telling device would have been having the Voyager crew negotiate with the Klingons for travel into their space. Just because the Klingons are allies to the Federation, and have allowed Federation ships to travel to a few of their worlds, doesn't mean they would have allowed one to travel entirely through their space.