Don't laugh. Ok, well, go on and laugh a little, then come back and read the rest of this thing. I assure you I'm not wasting your time or the devs time.
You see it a lot. Stand around on Earth Spacedock for a while and someone who is really good with the alien generator will walk by with a Na'vi character. For those who don't know, the Na'vi are the blue aliens from the Avatar movie.
They got me to wondering, what would it take to make them an official, playable race?
You might be prompted to say to yourself, "But they're not a Star Trek race!" Normally I would agree with you, but then again, I didn't think the aliens from E.T. were a Star Wars race either. Then, suddenly, watching The Phantom Menace (I think), there they were on the senate floor!
So, there is precedent for this. The term is Crossover. It depends heavily on the relationships of everybody involved of course, but it has been and can be done.
What are your thoughts on this? What other types of Crossover would you want to see, in your weirdest pipe dreams, if you could have it? Discuss.
Er. Your E.T. reference doesn't work here. No one from Star Trek had any involvement with Avatar. However, Spielberg and Lucas have done a LOT of stuff together, hence why E.T. Aliens were included in Star Wars Lore.
Er. Your E.T. reference doesn't work here. No one from Star Trek had any involvement with Avatar. However, Spielberg and Lucas have done a LOT of stuff together, hence why E.T. Aliens were included in Star Wars Lore.
Since the Millennium Falcon appears in First Contact and R2D2 in... Whatever they call the latest Star Trek movie... Does that mean we should be able to pilot that ship and have trashcans running around on our ships?
Nah. Purely easter eggs put in there because well... Same firm simply.
How about we add the planet the day before the undine faction comes out... then the day the undine faction comes out.. we get a special event day called "Undine make stupid planet with giant blue walking talking lizards go boom". Everyones a winner.
How about we add the planet the day before the undine faction comes out... then the day the undine faction comes out.. we get a special event day called "Undine make stupid planet with giant blue walking talking lizards go boom". Everyones a winner.
I created an Undine earlier. Teamed up with a Romulan.
As they have plans on making their own MMO at some point I don't think FOX would ever allow Na'vi to be used by another game. Also, different production companies aren't likely to even make a crossover. Alien vs Predator could do it because both properties are owned by FOX. Freddy vs Jason could do it for the same reason, both are owned by Newline.
Avatar is owned by FOX. Star Trek in owned by Paramount and CBS. I think it's safe to say there will never ever be a crossover between the two properties.
Also, the aliens in Star Wars Phantom Menace, while similar in appearance to the E.T. aliens were definitely not the same. Other than having long necks and short stubby bodies there is no resemblance whatsoever.
Nice try though.
:cool:
Errr... dude.. they ARE the same aliens from E.T.
Lucas included them as part of a deal he made with Spielberg. Stevey-boy included Yoda in the E.T. Toy Line in exchange for George Lucas promising to put E.T. in his next Star Wars film.
They're the Children of the Green Planet, and they are most definitely the same aliens.
Oh, and leave them out of the Aliens franchise as well, they'd die faster than Batman should have.
Edit. Last thought it's too bad IDW doesn't do Avatar comics, the new "Infestation", Zombie cross over doing Star Trek, Transformers, G.I. Joe and Ghostbusters, could have used a Avatar mix. (as well as disney princess, carebear, smurf and thundercats). That would be epic.
psh. How many times did Batman beat up one of the Yautja? (Predator Alien)
How about we add the planet the day before the undine faction comes out... then the day the undine faction comes out.. we get a special event day called "Undine make stupid planet with giant blue walking talking lizards go boom". Everyones a winner.
I vote Daleks and Cybermen be added. As well as Hath, and while we're at it... The Doctor's Daughter finds another Time Lord (Hey... if Master was still around, who knows what other Time Lord is hiding out?) and gets knocked up, and restarts the entire race (albeit now inbred) Time Lords for ALL!
I vote Daleks and Cybermen be added. As well as Hath, and while we're at it... The Doctor's Daughter finds another Time Lord (Hey... if Master was still around, who knows what other Time Lord is hiding out?) and gets knocked up, and restarts the entire race (albeit now inbred) Time Lords for ALL!
i would assume time lord tech has a solution for inbreeding. a lil old bit of genetic roulette? The Master is quite competent when it comes to messing with time lords. He turned a grown man into a thing that would not even fill out on of my boots.
ASIDE FROM THAT:
Aren't the Navi, like, totally devoted treehuggers? I mean they link up with their world using that usb hair of theirs.
They didn't even want to use human guns, and remember how native americans LOVED switching to firearms? The Navi are some serious treelovers.that are devoted to their way pf life.
I can't imagine them in star trek in any other capacity than to be shot at with phasers and cut up wiith batleths.
As for Avatars world crafting:
They had floating, rock islands where water constantly pours out of holes. So... where did that water come from? Cant be rain, since, well, the amount of water is way to much to be feed by rain and i have not seen water fly up back there.
A place with FLOATING mountains. A near entire jungle ecosystem. A planet filed almost entirely with giant carnivores. Hard for an ecosystem to be beliveable when its entire population is filled with apex level predators. A planet with a soul and every creature coming pre-equiped with magic "feeling" connectors with with to talk to the planet or each other.
Yea, its the most realistic world ever!:rolleyes:
Because we really know what life supporting planets look like:eek::rolleyes: Unlike in Star Trek where every alien species has a different forehead design but looks completely human. Also the whole planet is not full of predators, there was a whole bunch of animals that seemed more like herbivore/herd animals. Besides, Earth is full of predators, almost everything eats another lifeform, just not humans. If I through you in the Jungle down in south america or Africa, you would'nt last a more then a few days.
If you pay attention, the thing the humans are after floats due to it's increased magnetism. THe mountains probably have a lot of the same element.
I like a lot of movies. Including Avatar. It was just beautiful and amazing and the only reason I don't have the DVD or Bluray is because I fear I won't be able to recreate that first viewing experience on the big screen on my "small" flatscreen. Naysayers go home.
There are a lot of Sci-Fi movies that I like. Doesn't mean though I think they should be part of the game.
Though if we open negotations, I would also like to see something like this: http://komplexify.com/images/2008/PonyXenomorphMotivator.jpg
In the end, it's a pointless topic. The rights for Avatar or Na'vi aren't for grabs for a Startrek game.
I like a lot of movies. Including Avatar. It was just beautiful and amazing and the only reason I don't have the DVD or Bluray is because I fear I won't be able to recreate that first viewing experience on the big screen on my "small" flatscreen. Naysayers go home.
There are a lot of Sci-Fi movies that I like. Doesn't mean though I think they should be part of the game.
Though if we open negotations, I would also like to see something like this: http://komplexify.com/images/2008/PonyXenomorphMotivator.jpg
In the end, it's a pointless topic. The rights for Avatar or Na'vi aren't for grabs for a Startrek game.
I'll go one further and suggest that if it were to be done, it would likely be done by the MMO Studio that James Cameron owns, Multiverse. Furthermore, given the natural fit of the property (people in Avatar bodies) for an MMO, it will get its own game of some kind, eventually.
If you want Trek's IP rights to expand to other aliens, you might start by going for David Gerrold (who I think would develop, license, or sell races like he did with Tribbles quite readily) or Niven, who seems more amenable to that kind of crossover, or even try negotiating with Harlan Ellison, so that he stops threatening a lawsuit every time someone uses the Guardian of Forever.
At least none of those guys have a competing business interest like Cameron does.
Dune. Even though that suffered from the the usual "one geographical trait that defines a whole planet".
Effects that define a movie doesn't cover up a unoriginal plot, another bipedal species, and hot 10 foot tall women painted blue, in 3-D.
Blue or Green, "death by snoo snoo" does not a good movie make.
They crafted cool effects, not a planet. Aside from Dune you really want to get into better crafted planets? Maybe we could narrow it down to real science fiction instead of simple movie effects.
I am going to take a stab in the dark and guess your talking about the movie that had Patrick Stewart in a supporting role?
While Frank Herbert is a genius, I said film. You offer me Dune. I love Dune, even the horrible try to tell the whole story in less then two hours movie version of Dune. Arrakis verse Pandora (film only). I choose Pandora as a far more beautiful and breath taking film experience. Have fun watching worm sign.
The ONLY way the Avatar aliens could get on STO officially would be if Cryptic shelled out like a BILLION dollars to James Cameron. That movie is his baby, no way in hell would he ever let anyone get their hands on anything from Avatar.
Okay, so based on the responses I have seen, here is what I can tell the OP:
Beyond the legal and financial issues of having them in STO, it is apparent the STO community as represented here* don't want them anyway. You can create a similar looking species in the character creator already (so the need to create a whole new race isn't there) and the species will not fit in the current universe as there is already a species habitating the same planet.
So, don't hold your breath.
*= I know the STO Forums represent a small fraction of the STO population. But they also represent the majority of those steering the direction of the game by providing the most input. And given that STO is Atari's money-child at the moment, I think the game is heading in the right direction without the need for cross-franchise IP.
Don't laugh. Ok, well, go on and laugh a little, then come back and read the rest of this thing. I assure you I'm not wasting your time or the devs time.
You see it a lot. Stand around on Earth Spacedock for a while and someone who is really good with the alien generator will walk by with a Na'vi character. For those who don't know, the Na'vi are the blue aliens from the Avatar movie.
They got me to wondering, what would it take to make them an official, playable race?
You might be prompted to say to yourself, "But they're not a Star Trek race!" Normally I would agree with you, but then again, I didn't think the aliens from E.T. were a Star Wars race either. Then, suddenly, watching The Phantom Menace (I think), there they were on the senate floor!
So, there is precedent for this. The term is Crossover. It depends heavily on the relationships of everybody involved of course, but it has been and can be done.
What are your thoughts on this? What other types of Crossover would you want to see, in your weirdest pipe dreams, if you could have it? Discuss.
Crossovers would be nice, if we didn't live inthe age of COPYRIGHT LITIGATION.
To add the Na'Vi, CBS would have to obtain a license to use their likeness from 20th Century Fox. That in and of itself would be costly. Then, Cruptic would have to add the various Na'Vi parts into the Alien Creator, and then design uniform sets to fit the Na'vi mesh. Not a real fat thing.
As to the "Na'Vi lookalikes"...Believe you me, the likeness that you see in ESD isn't close enough to be actionable under copyright. The Creatir has rules in it that won't let you get close enough. Cryptic learned that one back when they ran CoH, and got sued by Marvel because people were coming to close to iconic Marvel characters over there (Wolverine especially). Part of the settlement was modifying the character creator over at CoH so that that couldn't happen. Lotta screaming over there when people logged in and found their character changed...
CO and STO follow the same principle. You can come close, but not actionably close.
Same would have to happen with other "crossover" characters as well - licenses would have to be negotiated for, then the requisite parts added - and if the holder of the copyright changed their corporate mind, a lot of people would have a lot of changed or nonexistent characters real fast.
That's the way it works in a commercial environment, where money changes hands. On things liek Web comics, the authors of the strips come to a agreement to let the crossover happen. In fanfiction - well, if money is charged for it, it becomes actionable (though action is rarely taken unless there's recovery to be had, OR the fiction is widespread enough to damage the original property). Even happened with ST once - and almost resulted in Pocket losing their license to publish works in the ST universe. They almost publised a book that was basically a slashfic (homosexual fiction) between Kirk and Spock - when Roddenberry found out that book got yanked REAL fast.
So, to sum up: in STO, with official sanction? Not real likely. Coming real close in-game, Possible TOS violation, depending on the fine lone between "free use" and copyright infringement.
They got me to wondering, what would it take to make them an official, playable race?
It would take them being a Star Trek canon species or from the non canon novels, comics etc.. somewhere beyond that it just isn't likely to happen..but then that is what the CUSTOM ALIEN generator is for so you can try re-make these things yourself.
You could feasibly get around by asking them to make the NPC alien species they have in game that looks remarkably like the Na'vi official i can't recall there name but with the difference of them using more than just blue skin they are very na'vi looking.
You might be prompted to say to yourself, "But they're not a Star Trek race!" Normally I would agree with you, but then again, I didn't think the aliens from E.T. were a Star Wars race either. Then, suddenly, watching The Phantom Menace (I think), there they were on the senate floor!
yeah..but it wasn't really a precedent as it was only ever done and intended as an "in joke" between Lucas and Spielberg, it wasn't done by intention of "im making your species a part of my universe".
If your having trouble re-creating a na'vi look-a-alike yourself your best bet is probably just to open a thread asking folks to submit na'vi designs for you to use its a simple enough process to share designs that you can easily drop into your folder and have available to load into the creator for use.
Phantom Menace wasn't great. But it was definitely better than Attack of the Clones, and Revenge of the Sith was a terribly written mess that tried to backtrack over the first two prequels.
Phantom Menace wasn't great. But it was definitely better than Attack of the Clones, and Revenge of the Sith was a terribly written mess that tried to backtrack over the first two prequels.
Wow, totally disagree with that. I don't fastforward through AOTC as much as I do TPM, and (IMO) ROTS was almost as watchable as ROTJ. Phantom is a completely over baked TRIBBLE of a movie and I haven't sat through the whole thing from beginning to end since I saw it that one time in the theater in 1999.
Comments
ST-O does not have the IP for Avatar or any Sequels.
Er. Your E.T. reference doesn't work here. No one from Star Trek had any involvement with Avatar. However, Spielberg and Lucas have done a LOT of stuff together, hence why E.T. Aliens were included in Star Wars Lore.
Since the Millennium Falcon appears in First Contact and R2D2 in... Whatever they call the latest Star Trek movie... Does that mean we should be able to pilot that ship and have trashcans running around on our ships?
Nah. Purely easter eggs put in there because well... Same firm simply.
True story.
Errr... dude.. they ARE the same aliens from E.T.
Lucas included them as part of a deal he made with Spielberg. Stevey-boy included Yoda in the E.T. Toy Line in exchange for George Lucas promising to put E.T. in his next Star Wars film.
They're the Children of the Green Planet, and they are most definitely the same aliens.
psh. How many times did Batman beat up one of the Yautja? (Predator Alien)
Like... 3 times at least?
I vote Daleks and Cybermen be added. As well as Hath, and while we're at it... The Doctor's Daughter finds another Time Lord (Hey... if Master was still around, who knows what other Time Lord is hiding out?) and gets knocked up, and restarts the entire race (albeit now inbred) Time Lords for ALL!
i would assume time lord tech has a solution for inbreeding. a lil old bit of genetic roulette? The Master is quite competent when it comes to messing with time lords. He turned a grown man into a thing that would not even fill out on of my boots.
ASIDE FROM THAT:
Aren't the Navi, like, totally devoted treehuggers? I mean they link up with their world using that usb hair of theirs.
They didn't even want to use human guns, and remember how native americans LOVED switching to firearms? The Navi are some serious treelovers.that are devoted to their way pf life.
I can't imagine them in star trek in any other capacity than to be shot at with phasers and cut up wiith batleths.
As for Avatars world crafting:
They had floating, rock islands where water constantly pours out of holes. So... where did that water come from? Cant be rain, since, well, the amount of water is way to much to be feed by rain and i have not seen water fly up back there.
Oh and again: FLYING ROCK ISLANDS.
stupid.
Because we really know what life supporting planets look like:eek::rolleyes: Unlike in Star Trek where every alien species has a different forehead design but looks completely human. Also the whole planet is not full of predators, there was a whole bunch of animals that seemed more like herbivore/herd animals. Besides, Earth is full of predators, almost everything eats another lifeform, just not humans. If I through you in the Jungle down in south america or Africa, you would'nt last a more then a few days.
If you pay attention, the thing the humans are after floats due to it's increased magnetism. THe mountains probably have a lot of the same element.
There are a lot of Sci-Fi movies that I like. Doesn't mean though I think they should be part of the game.
Though if we open negotations, I would also like to see something like this: http://komplexify.com/images/2008/PonyXenomorphMotivator.jpg
In the end, it's a pointless topic. The rights for Avatar or Na'vi aren't for grabs for a Startrek game.
I'll go one further and suggest that if it were to be done, it would likely be done by the MMO Studio that James Cameron owns, Multiverse. Furthermore, given the natural fit of the property (people in Avatar bodies) for an MMO, it will get its own game of some kind, eventually.
If you want Trek's IP rights to expand to other aliens, you might start by going for David Gerrold (who I think would develop, license, or sell races like he did with Tribbles quite readily) or Niven, who seems more amenable to that kind of crossover, or even try negotiating with Harlan Ellison, so that he stops threatening a lawsuit every time someone uses the Guardian of Forever.
At least none of those guys have a competing business interest like Cameron does.
I am going to take a stab in the dark and guess your talking about the movie that had Patrick Stewart in a supporting role?
While Frank Herbert is a genius, I said film. You offer me Dune. I love Dune, even the horrible try to tell the whole story in less then two hours movie version of Dune. Arrakis verse Pandora (film only). I choose Pandora as a far more beautiful and breath taking film experience. Have fun watching worm sign.
(=| here's Wolverine versus Spock |=)
He's about to go all Pon Farr over Wolverine's TRIBBLE!
Yeah, crossovers are like that.
No sorry, this is a bad idea. Why isn't the alien creator good enough for you? :mad:
Beyond the legal and financial issues of having them in STO, it is apparent the STO community as represented here* don't want them anyway. You can create a similar looking species in the character creator already (so the need to create a whole new race isn't there) and the species will not fit in the current universe as there is already a species habitating the same planet.
So, don't hold your breath.
*= I know the STO Forums represent a small fraction of the STO population. But they also represent the majority of those steering the direction of the game by providing the most input. And given that STO is Atari's money-child at the moment, I think the game is heading in the right direction without the need for cross-franchise IP.
The series, maybe. But I was ready for Skywalker to turn into Darth Vader if it meant he'd stop with the whiny momma's boy routine.
Crossovers would be nice, if we didn't live inthe age of COPYRIGHT LITIGATION.
To add the Na'Vi, CBS would have to obtain a license to use their likeness from 20th Century Fox. That in and of itself would be costly. Then, Cruptic would have to add the various Na'Vi parts into the Alien Creator, and then design uniform sets to fit the Na'vi mesh. Not a real fat thing.
As to the "Na'Vi lookalikes"...Believe you me, the likeness that you see in ESD isn't close enough to be actionable under copyright. The Creatir has rules in it that won't let you get close enough. Cryptic learned that one back when they ran CoH, and got sued by Marvel because people were coming to close to iconic Marvel characters over there (Wolverine especially). Part of the settlement was modifying the character creator over at CoH so that that couldn't happen. Lotta screaming over there when people logged in and found their character changed...
CO and STO follow the same principle. You can come close, but not actionably close.
Same would have to happen with other "crossover" characters as well - licenses would have to be negotiated for, then the requisite parts added - and if the holder of the copyright changed their corporate mind, a lot of people would have a lot of changed or nonexistent characters real fast.
That's the way it works in a commercial environment, where money changes hands. On things liek Web comics, the authors of the strips come to a agreement to let the crossover happen. In fanfiction - well, if money is charged for it, it becomes actionable (though action is rarely taken unless there's recovery to be had, OR the fiction is widespread enough to damage the original property). Even happened with ST once - and almost resulted in Pocket losing their license to publish works in the ST universe. They almost publised a book that was basically a slashfic (homosexual fiction) between Kirk and Spock - when Roddenberry found out that book got yanked REAL fast.
So, to sum up: in STO, with official sanction? Not real likely. Coming real close in-game, Possible TOS violation, depending on the fine lone between "free use" and copyright infringement.
Second, I want a Niblonian.
As long as they leave our Shelat Cubs alone instead of eating them...
It would take them being a Star Trek canon species or from the non canon novels, comics etc.. somewhere beyond that it just isn't likely to happen..but then that is what the CUSTOM ALIEN generator is for so you can try re-make these things yourself.
You could feasibly get around by asking them to make the NPC alien species they have in game that looks remarkably like the Na'vi official i can't recall there name but with the difference of them using more than just blue skin they are very na'vi looking.
yeah..but it wasn't really a precedent as it was only ever done and intended as an "in joke" between Lucas and Spielberg, it wasn't done by intention of "im making your species a part of my universe".
If your having trouble re-creating a na'vi look-a-alike yourself your best bet is probably just to open a thread asking folks to submit na'vi designs for you to use its a simple enough process to share designs that you can easily drop into your folder and have available to load into the creator for use.
Phantom Menace wasn't great. But it was definitely better than Attack of the Clones, and Revenge of the Sith was a terribly written mess that tried to backtrack over the first two prequels.