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Please stop de-cloaking us with PvE dialog boxes!!!

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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I'm not certain Transporter use should break cloak...its a focused beam, to see it means critical portions of the object is being lost and wont materialize on target. Its like a laser, you cant see it unless parts of it is refract/reflect off of contaminants in its path. If you let that happen, objects being transported would be materilaizing incomplete. Repeated use by the people would at the very least mean you materialize smaller and smaller each time...or worse, with critical pieces of your body missing.

    They only way to detect the transport woul dbe to be in its path (bad for the transported object, it aint going to materialize as intended). To note the change in environment (scanners detect something that wasnt there) or you pick up the emissions of the transporter during its use (which the cloak would conceal within itsefl, just like all the other emissions eminating from a ship while cloaked).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Valias wrote:
    And/or a minigame where someone who wants to find a cloaked ship has to adjust his sensors. Like Data did in "Unification" to detect the distorted echoes of Romulan Warbirds in the tachyon residue clouds. I generally like this idea.

    Me too :)
    cocoa-jin wrote: »
    I'm not certain Transporter use should break cloak...its a focused beam, to see it means critical portions of the object is being lost and wont materialize on target. Its like a laser, you cant see it unless parts of it is refract/reflect off of contaminants in its path. If you let that happen, objects being transported would be materilaizing incomplete. Repeated use by the people would at the very least mean you materialize smaller and smaller each time...or worse, with critical pieces of your body missing.

    They only way to detect the transport woul dbe to be in its path (bad for the transported object, it aint going to materialize as intended). To note the change in environment (scanners detect something that wasnt there) or you pick up the emissions of the transporter during its use (which the cloak would conceal within itsefl, just like all the other emissions eminating from a ship while cloaked).

    A focused beam would be a beacon, pointing right to the cloaked ship.
    Lasers are not detectable with the eye, transporter effects are. They may move faster than the human eye can see, but are very visible at their destination/point of origin.
    Starships have sensors to detect em radiation, energy surges, and particles flying around in space. Transporters are not secure means of travel, in that they are easily detectable, as is seen in the shows, unless there's a plot driven reason for them not to be.

    This could be another minigame, masking the transport and getting the transportee(s) to their intended destination intact.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    This started the morning after the last patch. Happens to all my characters that have cloak, battlecloak, or MES. Something changed in last patch. I just want to know if it is an accidentally introduced bug or if this change was slipped in and we weren't told it's coming. Any kind of response about it from Cryptic would be appreciated.

    My original post about this issue
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    This is a very annoying bug, particularly when doing a "Defend outpost" mission where there pops a dialog basically after every ship you destroy. The cloak is a BOPs only defense against ships being spawned right next to it.

    Please fix it, Cryptic. I refuse to believe it's anything but a bug. Because it wouldn't make the slightest sense, gameplay wisely.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I fly a cloaking Defiant and i havent found any new issues wiith the cloak and dialog boxes. Maybe its a klink issue?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    nileight wrote: »
    Me too :)



    A focused beam would be a beacon, pointing right to the cloaked ship.
    Lasers are not detectable with the eye, transporter effects are. They may move faster than the human eye can see, but are very visible at their destination/point of origin.
    Starships have sensors to detect em radiation, energy surges, and particles flying around in space. Transporters are not secure means of travel, in that they are easily detectable, as is seen in the shows, unless there's a plot driven reason for them not to be.

    This could be another minigame, masking the transport and getting the transportee(s) to their intended destination intact.

    I'm not so sure. If you equate it to light, the beacon is only visible when pointed right at you...unless it is refracted my obscuration. It's not the speed that's an issue, it's the fact that any detection of the light is signal lost and parts that don't materialize. So by design, detecting it by light isn't an option unless it's direct at the sensor.

    Objects can be transported through solid matter, so the transporter can have the transported material avoid collisions with material...making it one less way of detecting it.

    So transport the vacuum of space may provide the hardest means of detecting the actual transport. It's transit being through subspace might complicate it more.

    We may find that at most, another ship could only detect the presence of a transport, but not be able to readily pinpoint the origin
    The transporter itself would have any of it's emissions masked by the cloak...so the real question is wither the transported material (matter or energy) would create any emissions in transit...I'm not yet convinced it would
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    This thread just gave me a mental image:

    "I see you Kirk. Can you see.....what the hell?"
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    The PVE message windows are one of the most annoying things about STO.

    In the "Approach the Station" missions where you approach a nearby station and then have to defend it from attackers. There have been many times when I have defeated an enemy and am passing by them as they are about to explode, then the stupid PVE dialog box comes up and your engines drop to zero RIGHT NEXT to the ship about to explode. And, you guessed it, you are destroyed as the ship next to you is destroyed.

    I have been told a couple of times by others that this behavior can be changed in the settings. Bull, I have yet to find said setting.

    Why in God's name does a starship need to come to a complete stop when one of your Bridge Officers needs to tell you something? That is stupid, in my opinion, and should be changed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    The PVE message windows are one of the most annoying things about STO.

    In the "Approach the Station" missions where you approach a nearby station and then have to defend it from attackers. There have been many times when I have defeated an enemy and am passing by them as they are about to explode, then the stupid PVE dialog box comes up and your engines drop to zero RIGHT NEXT to the ship about to explode. And, you guessed it, you are destroyed as the ship next to you is destroyed.

    I have been told a couple of times by others that this behavior can be changed in the settings. Bull, I have yet to find said setting.

    Why in God's name does a starship need to come to a complete stop when one of your Bridge Officers needs to tell you something? That is stupid, in my opinion, and should be changed.

    Here's a walk through for ya mate,

    (Be sure that you are in space when following these directions)
    1. Press the Esc key until the "main menu" window appears.
    2. Click on the "Options" button (Below the "Rearrange HUD" button)
    3. Click on the "Controls" tab located at the top of the "Options" window (The window does not say "Options", this is the window that appeared when you pressed the "Options" button in step 2)
    4. Scroll down the window until you see "Keep moving during contact dialogs" option (The 2nd from the bottom option).
    5. Be sure that the option is set to "On"

    And there ya go, happy hunting
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    And my take on the whole de-cloaking when a message comes up. I feel that it is cannon, cloaked ships garbels communication (I think). But as a game mechanic it doesn't work. Why not have the screen flash a color alerting you that there is an incoming message. That way you can choose when to "decloak".
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Acceleron wrote:
    Here's a walk through for ya mate,

    (Be sure that you are in space when following these directions)
    1. Press the Esc key until the "main menu" window appears.
    2. Click on the "Options" button (Below the "Rearrange HUD" button)
    3. Click on the "Controls" tab located at the top of the "Options" window (The window does not say "Options", this is the window that appeared when you pressed the "Options" button in step 2)
    4. Scroll down the window until you see "Keep moving during contact dialogs" option (The 2nd from the bottom option).
    5. Be sure that the option is set to "On"

    And there ya go, happy hunting

    Thanks. I'll try this tonight.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    It may be reasonable go assume that if subspace comm transmissions don't allow for reliable or even the possibilty of detecting a ship under cloak...then subspace transporter transmissions of matter may be equally difficult at detecting cloaked ships.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Acceleron wrote:
    And my take on the whole de-cloaking when a message comes up. I feel that it is cannon, cloaked ships garbels communication (I think).
    See Star Trek IV, Chang taunting Kirk whilst he happily fires away torpedoes from cloak. Or countless episodes of TNG and DS9 where we saw cloaked Birds-of-Prey communicating and beaming without being detected. The Defiant did this many times as well.

    Heck, in "Unification", the Klingon Empire parked a Bird-of-Prey right over Romulus Prime and eavesdropped RSE communications before beaming Picard and Data to the surface, picking them up again a few hours later. :D

    Besides ... why do I get decloaked - when I get a message from my own bridge officer who sits a meter away from me >_<
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    My mistake, I just could have sworn it was star trek where ships must be decloaked in order to send transmissions. One could say that communications make enemy ships triangulate on your position instantly but meh.

    Just an annoying game mechanic that will probably get reprimanded "soon"
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I do believe detection is possible - I remember the Bird-of-Prey above Romulus hiding its transmission in a Romulan carrier wave to avoid getting spotted. Of course, even if the Romulans would have intercepted the signal the BoP would not have magically shut down its cloaking device; the Romulans would have just started scanning for it like you can already do in STO with abilities like Sensor Scan.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    cocoa-jin wrote: »
    It is so annoying, inappropriate and totally counter to the whole purpose of the cloak and how it is to be used in a tactical situtation/environment.

    Its bad enough we cant choose to enter the mission cloaked or not...nor can we transit Sector space under cloak. You migght as well give me a gun, but require I unload the clip right before each encounter :rolleyes:.

    I might as well be a sniper, but make me have to stand up and wave before I fire the shot. Come on guys...its just wrong.

    Press Esc. Choose Options. Click on Controls. Select Keep Moving During Dialog Boxes. Accept.

    There. Now you should never be decloaked by a Dialog Box again. Scanning and clicking on things will still decloak you however.


    :cool:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Blackavaar wrote: »
    Press Esc. Choose Options. Click on Controls. Select Keep Moving During Dialog Boxes. Accept.

    There. Now you should never be decloaked by a Dialog Box again. Scanning and clicking on things will still decloak you however.


    :cool:

    I should already have that selected. I did that a year ago.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    A few things :)

    1.) Ships cloaked can beam, communicate and otherwise maneuver, at the risk of being exposed.

    Chang in undiscovered country let his ego get the best of him, thinking all he had to do was delay Kirk & Company until the assassination took place. Had a GENERAL of the KBF thought for a second he was going to have to actually battle Kirk, he'd have never said anything - and thus wouldn't have lost the tactical advantage.

    2.) Seriously.. you have starships that can traverse light speed, transport matter over distances that would consume all the energy in the Universe to do... but your telling me a starship firing a PHYSICAL object out it's porthole won't be detected?

    :rolleyes:

    Cloaking is all about EMISSIONS control. No different than today's stealth concepts, except better materials / technology etc.

    SUGGESTIONS:

    1.) Make the percentage chance of detection of cloaked objects increase the faster they move. Don't want to get detected? Cloak and move at 1/8 impulse.

    2.) Power should be at a premium when cloaked. A battle cloak is fine, but there's a reason the BoP was only firing torpedoes - the energy drain to fire phasers would render the ship visible. When the ship comes out of battlecloak, it should be VULNERABLE. I understand the buff to damage to represent the "surprise" aspect, but darnit again I'm going to invoke the technology clause -

    "A starship fighting a cloaking opponent would be able to lock onto the ship almost immediately when un-cloaking, and fire almost as soon, simply because they -KNEW- they were fighting a cloaked ship."

    Do you really think Starfleet would NOT program a battle routine into their computers to deal with a cloaked opponent?

    I find it interesting that we will use certain aspects of canon to justify stuff that, using the same rational would be completely illogical.

    :D

    Regards,
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I would also like to add that using Tactical Fleet II in PVP in a Raptor (possibly the defiant as well) also decloaks you for some reason now. This makes buffing up with tactical captain buffs difficult as Tactical Fleet boosts the other buffs, so you have to use it first.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I just noticed it today - after winning a Ker'rat round, dialog box from my BOff decloaked my ship! Also happened when I went from PvE to PvP arena - decloaked. How the hell did this glitch happen?

    :rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    TheFreyMan wrote: »
    2.) Seriously.. you have starships that can traverse light speed, transport matter over distances that would consume all the energy in the Universe to do... but your telling me a starship firing a PHYSICAL object out it's porthole won't be detected?
    Who said that? :confused:
    TheFreyMan wrote: »
    1.) Make the percentage chance of detection of cloaked objects increase the faster they move. Don't want to get detected? Cloak and move at 1/8 impulse.
    I like this.
    TheFreyMan wrote: »
    2.) Power should be at a premium when cloaked. A battle cloak is fine, but there's a reason the BoP was only firing torpedoes - the energy drain to fire phasers would render the ship visible. When the ship comes out of battlecloak, it should be VULNERABLE.
    Already in the game.
    TheFreyMan wrote: »
    Do you really think Starfleet would NOT program a battle routine into their computers to deal with a cloaked opponent?
    Apparently? See the movies and the series.

    Though I do believe that this has to do more with the chain of command and human error rather than pre-programmed "battle routines". Starfleet's rules of engagement state that you're not supposed to fire on another ship unless identified (even in a battle zone), and when a ship decloaks it takes a moment to do so (see this DS9 episode). Also, we have seen countless times on screen that it takes a few precious seconds for the tactical officer to report, and the commanding officer to give the order to fire. Accurately represented by the player reaction delay in the game, imho.

    Of course the devs could implement one of those nifty little dialogue windows to pop up with your tactical officer yelling: "Klingon ship decloaking!" - but I do believe this would get old fast.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Telbasta wrote:
    I'm really hoping that the romulans get an upgraded cloaking device on their ships that allows you to scan, transport, and do other non-combat tasks while remaining hidden - would allow for some neat bonus objectives, like finishing an entire mission without being detected.

    It's canon ST so they should.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    So what's the news on this glich?

    :rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Cant wait for this to be fixed,
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    This is very much still a problem and I'd like to see it at least make the known issues list that is actually published.

    Also, I have ALWAYS had it set such that dialogs don't cancel movement. It doesn't matter. Besides, even the new mini-dialog popups (the ones that are usually your bridge officers commenting on things) cause this to happen -- like in The Vault when your BOFF says "its quiet in here -- too quiet".

    Come on guys, this one is EASY to repro...

    1. Go home to Qo'Nos.
    2. Cloak
    3. Fly close to the planet to bring up the beam down dialog.
    4. You're uncloaked!
    5. Minimize the beam down dialog or say not now.
    6. Cloak
    7. Click the minimized dialog.
    8. You're uncloaked again!

    -Forjo
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Telbasta wrote:
    I'm really hoping that the romulans get an upgraded cloaking device on their ships that allows you to scan, transport, and do other non-combat tasks while remaining hidden - would allow for some neat bonus objectives, like finishing an entire mission without being detected.

    I love this idea, specially seeing it is a fact that Romulans cloak always tend to be a bit better.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Yes, fix it.
    The decloaking when my own Bridge BOff is talking to me is silly.

    TheFreyMan wrote: »

    1.) Make the percentage chance of detection of cloaked objects increase the faster they move. Don't want to get detected? Cloak and move at 1/8 impulse.
    I disagree. The genre has never shown any difficulty with cloaking while moving at flank speed. Only at times when the vessel in question is pushing itself to extreme speeds has this had an effect on cloaking due to poiwer being drained and thresholds being surpassed.
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