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Space mouse control fatigue

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
edited February 2012 in Controls and User Interface
Hi all,

I started playing when the game was first released, but had to move and got sidetracked with other games (big year in PC gaming). Anyway, I kept paying my monthly fee, and now I'm trying to get back into STO (I'm embarrassed at how low level I am).

One of the issues with the controls really bothers me, and I'm wondering if there's some way to fix it. When controlling the ship in space, I almost always like to take direct control of the ship's steering by holding down both the left and right mouse buttons (especially during combat).

It's fine at first but after a while, I find it extremely fatiguing and my hand starts to cramp. I know that I could use the keyboard controls, but I already have enough to do with the keyboard to fire weapons, select abilities or items, etc. Plus using the mouse just feels more natural.

Is there some way I can simply turn on the direct steering so that I don't have to constantly hold down both mouse buttons? Maybe a toggle of some sort? This would be great in ground combat as well, since holding down the right button is also fatiguing (just not as much).

Any help on this would be MOST APPRECIATED! Thanks.
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Try the A and D letters for left right, W S for down and up. Does anyone out there even use the mouse to fly? Plus you still have to take your hand off your mouse to collect craft materials to bang on your arrow keys during the collection minigame. If you need more info about manual keybinds check out http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=192243

    Happy Hunting
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Highbone wrote:
    Try the A and D letters for left right, W S for down and up. Does anyone out there even use the mouse to fly? Plus you still have to take your hand off your mouse to collect craft materials to bang on your arrow keys during the collection minigame. If you need more info about manual keybinds check out http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=192243

    Happy Hunting

    Actually as stated I'm aware of those control options and have rejected them. For me I use my left hand for combat keys (SPACE, 1-0 keys, f for action, q and e for speeding up and down, etc). I use my right hand on the mouse to steer the ship. The collection minigame can be controlled using the mouse which is how I do it.

    Maybe I am alone in this. Probably comes from all the strategy, and RPG play. Nonetheless, this is how it feels right for me. Any other suggestions besides the keyboard? All I really want is to be able to use a key on the keyboard to toggle the mouse from it's normal operation to steering the ship, so I don't have to hold down the left and right mouse buttons at the same time for prolonged periods. Cryptic! You listening out there? This can't be very difficult to add. Please?? :o
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    You could try getting a joystick? STO does have joystick support.

    As to some sort of "lock" on the mouse controls...I thought there was, but I'm not sure. There might be some way to emulate the mouse movement as wasd keystrokes, but I don't know if that's even "legal" :(
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    get a Logitech G13 Gameboard and a Razer Naga and head to here: Controls and Bindings for STO for the profile and binds.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Highbone wrote:
    Does anyone out there even use the mouse to fly?

    I use the mouse. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I use the mouse also.

    I've been looking into a better way to use mouse control also. The joystick option is only a partial solution, because lack and other effective way of looking/panning around the vessel using the additional buttons/"Hat" switches on the joystick...poor development by Cryptic.

    I'm going to start a seperate post on it, but the joystick is best utilize with the abilty to assign Hat switches for view control, or even better, also include support for Track IR. Has its been said, our fingers are alread pre-occupied with all the other button mashing required in game.

    The simple point of the matter is this...we need more and better fleshed out control options, regrdless of if they are typical or atypical control methods on MMORPGs...this wasnt your typical MMORPG the minute the decided to add flying vessels and pseudo 3D planes of motion...so why wouldnt it be obvious that thier deviation away from basic MMORPG gameplay, wouldnt also require a deviation from the typical means/hardware for controlling our characters?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    the G13 is a great product. I used to use the mouse, too. On escorts thou, its easier to use a g13 or a joystick and put the camera in chase mode. :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    boglejam wrote: »
    the G13 is a great product. I used to use the mouse, too. On escorts thou, its easier to use a g13 or a joystick and put the camera in chase mode. :D

    doesnt that amke looking around, especially behind you, problematic?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    get a Logitech G13 Gameboard and a Razer Naga and head to here: Controls and Bindings for STO for the profile and binds.

    I already have a mouse and keyboard that I'm very happy with and don't have any intentions of changing. I'm using the Razer Imperator for my mouse and the Apple full size aluminum "chicklet" keyboard. Other than the funky function keys it's a great keyboard for typing (my speed went up) and for gaming. The razor mouse is the most comfortable I've ever used and includes advanced features for gaming like adjustable dpi and macro support. Unfortunately I can't see a way to use the macro function to simulate "keep the left and right mouse buttons down".
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Quadra wrote:
    I already have a mouse and keyboard that I'm very happy with and don't have any intentions of changing. I'm using the Razer Imperator for my mouse and the Apple full size aluminum "chicklet" keyboard. Other than the funky function keys it's a great keyboard for typing (my speed went up) and for gaming. The razor mouse is the most comfortable I've ever used and includes advanced features for gaming like adjustable dpi and macro support. Unfortunately I can't see a way to use the macro function to simulate "keep the left and right mouse buttons down".

    to make a macro for that you will need to use two macros one for hold and the other for release. eg. LMbutton hold RMbutton hold and the other LMbutton release RMbutton release
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    to make a macro for that you will need to use two macros one for hold and the other for release. eg. LMbutton hold RMbutton hold and the other LMbutton release RMbutton release

    OK I'm going to try that. Hopefully it will work. If it does it's certainly an example of why paying more for a gaming mouse is useful. Nonetheless I still think that Cryptic could (and SHOULD) add this in a future patch.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Well that was pretty much a complete disaster. I created the macro for the mouse buttons down and another for mouse buttons up and assigned one to the side 4 button (usually back button in a browser) and the other to side button 5 (usually forward in a browser). The down button worked, and I have to say it was great steering the ship so effortlessly. I was definitely right about this being a better way to fly.

    Unfortunately the second macro for buttons up didn't work, and essentially the buttons were stuck held down, so I couldn't click anywhere else in the interface. In the end I had to plug in another mouse just to exit the game, and then my Razer wouldn't click anything. I had to delete the macro's and reset the mouse to get it working normally again. :mad:

    Anyway, I think the only way this is going to work is if Cryptic makes it a feature, so PLEASE Cryptic add the ability to toggle ship steer on and off with a keypress or extra mouse button! You can leave it unassigned as the default so it won't affect anyone except for those of us who want it.

    Anyone else vote for this feature? Let Cryptic know in the replies. If enough people indicate they want it, hopefully they will listen. Thank you.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    have you tried using the keyboard aswd keys with left hand and clicking powers with your mouse ? . thats how i play but then im old school
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Canmore wrote:
    have you tried using the keyboard aswd keys with left hand and clicking powers with your mouse ? . thats how i play but then im old school

    That's probably a good approach based on how the game is setup. Nonetheless, I've tried the awsd keys for space combat and it just doesn't feel natural (I use the mouse along with those keys for ground combat - holding down the right mouse button to control direction left -right and up and down with w and s controlling forward and backward). For those of us who prefer the mouse I hope Cryptic will add this feature.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Quadra wrote:
    Well that was pretty much a complete disaster. I created the macro for the mouse buttons down and another for mouse buttons up and assigned one to the side 4 button (usually back button in a browser) and the other to side button 5 (usually forward in a browser). The down button worked, and I have to say it was great steering the ship so effortlessly. I was definitely right about this being a better way to fly.

    Quadra, I navigate with the mouse as well and understand your frustration. The problem you are encountering is with the command "camTurnToFace". What this does is make the camera follow the direction of the ship (hence the lag).

    I don't know that there is a solution to our dilemma. However ... What was the macro coding you used for the mouse keys on the mouse? How about the bind you did for in-game?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I'm afraid there is no way (that I can find) to manage this. Cursor position is controlled by the mouse. It is when the click is made that the screen becomes active. Without the click the mouse is useless.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I also tried setting the camera follow to a keyboard key instead of the left + right mouse button. That also failed.

    I love this game, but it's ridiculous to not have a simpler way of activating this flying mode. Is there some way to formally request this feature? Does Cryptic pay attention to these forums?

    Maybe I should post a poll thread...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    I have found that the program X-Mouse Button Control can be used to remap two mouse buttons into click-drag or "sticky buttons" that can then be used as toggles for turning camera and turning ship to camera. But, it can get a little confusing when things heat up and you have to un-toggle to mouse over and click on objects and then re-toggle.

    It's a very imperfect workaround, with a third party program, but it's the best feeling gameplay solution I've come up with.

    My dream would include native mouse-to-joystick support (and better joystick support), which can be emulated through existing third party software but it's more complicated than I am currently willing to explore. But then my dream would also include full 3D turning (rolls included) even though there is a slight canon reason for the restrictions.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2011
    Quadra wrote:
    Hi all,

    I started playing when the game was first released, but had to move and got sidetracked with other games (big year in PC gaming). Anyway, I kept paying my monthly fee, and now I'm trying to get back into STO (I'm embarrassed at how low level I am).

    One of the issues with the controls really bothers me, and I'm wondering if there's some way to fix it. When controlling the ship in space, I almost always like to take direct control of the ship's steering by holding down both the left and right mouse buttons (especially during combat).

    It's fine at first but after a while, I find it extremely fatiguing and my hand starts to cramp. I know that I could use the keyboard controls, but I already have enough to do with the keyboard to fire weapons, select abilities or items, etc. Plus using the mouse just feels more natural.

    Is there some way I can simply turn on the direct steering so that I don't have to constantly hold down both mouse buttons? Maybe a toggle of some sort? This would be great in ground combat as well, since holding down the right button is also fatiguing (just not as much).

    Any help on this would be MOST APPRECIATED! Thanks.

    Hello, stepping in to say, no, you're not alone on this. The way Cryptic implemented the space ship control in this game is just F'in terrible. It needs to change.

    Holding W or D, no - not acceptable. Buying all this new gaming hardware TRIBBLE, no - not acceptable. Macros, I use macros for other things but for ship maneuver and control, well, the base mechanics for flying a ship are so damn bad, macros don't help much for control.

    What would be feasible? Preset flight paths like Orbit at [range], Approach, Keep at Distance...sound familiar? Yeah, it's EVE's system and it works. Might as well take a look if nothing else - because nothing else is working.

    Long story short: I feel your pain. Ship targeting mechanics are really bad too.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    What would be feasible? Preset flight paths like Orbit at [range], Approach, Keep at Distance...sound familiar? Yeah, it's EVE's system and it works. Might as well take a look if nothing else - because nothing else is working.

    I too want a lazy button, that puts me through the waypoints and objectives! Cryptic, help my feeble Dew ridden fingers!!!!!!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Highbone wrote:
    I too want a lazy button, that puts me through the waypoints and objectives! Cryptic, help my feeble Dew ridden fingers!!!!!!

    Hey *******, WASD movement in space is ok for very a short amount of time like swiming though water if you spend most of your time on land. Space control in this game is very bad and sucks. It could use some help...like you!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    The more I play, the more I wish for this feature. On the plus side I think my forearms are getting stronger. :-p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Suggestion, and actually the way I think the controls were designed:

    WASD left hand, numpad right hand for the 1-0 hot button keys, autofollow for view.

    I rarely, if ever, touch the mouse and usually just to close/open windows or swing the view around (I just hit "tab" for next target, and have the "tab next target off screen" option turned on).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    kostamojen wrote: »
    Suggestion, and actually the way I think the controls were designed:

    WASD left hand, numpad right hand for the 1-0 hot button keys, autofollow for view.

    I rarely, if ever, touch the mouse and usually just to close/open windows or swing the view around (I just hit "tab" for next target, and have the "tab next target off screen" option turned on).

    I can see what you're saying, and for some people that's probably a great suggestion. For me I just can't get used to using the WASD keys for space combat. Probably because I'm too used to using them for ground movement in this and other games. The change from forward and backward (W and S) on the ground to meaning up and down is too jarring.

    The other problem I see with that way of controlling the game is that eventually you have so many abilities (especially in space combat) that 1-0 is not enough and you need to use a modifier key to access everything. You could use your left hand to activate the modifiers, but that could be difficult while also trying to control movement.

    Ultimately my point is that we should all be able to use whatever control scheme feels natural for us, and the game should have the flexibility to accommodate that. I like to use the mouse, I just don't want to have to hold down both mouse buttons the whole time.

    If there was an option in the keybinds that allowed the clicking of both mouse buttons to act a toggle instead of requiring them to be held down the whole time that would do the trick. In other words Left + Right Mouse click would turn on the steering of the ship until you did another Left + Right Mouse click which would return the mouse to cursor control. Simple really.

    Please Cryptic - You've been listening to your community in other areas. Please don't forget to listen about the controls as well!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Highbone wrote:
    Does anyone out there even use the mouse to fly?

    I use a mouse to steer. I also have all sorts of stuff bound to the extra buttons on the mouse. 12 different abilities are bound to my mouse.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I had the same problem myself. horrible pain in my fingers after only an hour... then...

    Enable Mouse Look : Right Drag
    Camera Turn-to-face : Right Press

    Voil
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    jdb2008 wrote: »
    Hey *******, WASD movement in space is ok for very a short amount of time like swiming though water if you spend most of your time on land. Space control in this game is very bad and sucks. It could use some help...like you!

    I sympathize. I prefer using the mouse and keyboard when in space, it would make the task less annoying if I did not have to hold down both mouse buttons to pilot via the mouse. If you weren't meant to fly with the mouse then why the hell was the option made available? I don't know, perhaps the option to click the scroll wheel to lock in flight mode on the mouse and another click to turn it off? Keyboard only flying is fine but using a combination of both is FAR superior.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Eleriel wrote:
    I had the same problem myself. horrible pain in my fingers after only an hour... then...

    Enable Mouse Look : Right Drag
    Camera Turn-to-face : Right Press

    Voil
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    How about they do like some of the rumors for ground unit. Allow the mouse to aim and fire the weapons while you control the ship with the keys. Outside of the battle you can use mouse. I.E. whereever the mouse is I left click all beam weapons hit that area. Right click is all torpeados. Also science vessel abilities allows you to find the ships subsystems and fire the're. Giving the ability to cripple ships instead of destroying them. Yes I know about the repair. Hopefully the auto repair will one day become limited to allow more damage to the ships. Allow hull intergrity to auto heal but the armor of the vessel with subsystems limits. Auto on some criticals systems and manual on plating and some subs.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited January 2012
    kostamojen wrote: »
    Suggestion, and actually the way I think the controls were designed:

    WASD left hand, numpad right hand for the 1-0 hot button keys, autofollow for view.

    I rarely, if ever, touch the mouse and usually just to close/open windows or swing the view around (I just hit "tab" for next target, and have the "tab next target off screen" option turned on).

    So left hand on keyboard and right hand accessing the number pad keys? Two Words:

    Razer Naga.

    You can set the mouse to use numpad 1-9+ -,+, and 0 keys PLUS since your hand is already on the mouse , you never have to lift your hand to click on anything since it is already on the mouse. The downside? Players with weak right hands or poor thumb muscle strength will find pressing buttons with their thumbs difficult and probably uncomfortable after a few hours of gameplay. FOrtunately for me, I am a drummer and guitarist so my fingers have lots of strength, stamina and dexterity, so learning the razer naga was no issue, it was just a matter of memorizing the location of my spells. I use this mouse for ALL my mmos and FPS, and I am growing to really love it.
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