As an avid reader, I have been reading the new Typhon Pact books. This doesn't really relate to the game as books are considered "soft cannon" and may or may not be included in the game. But hey, this is Ten Forward. Posts don't necessarily HAVE to relate to the game.
Anyway, some of the events in the Typhon Pact series have me thinking. If the Romulans are able to share their cloaking technology with all of the members of the Typhon Pact, why is the Federation still bound by the Organian Treaty in not being able to develop their own cloaking technology? I would bet that the phased cloak that Riker's former commander was testing could benefit greatly by all of the better technology now available.
Titan would get in a little less trouble if she could survey systems while cloaked.
Anyway, it just seems to me that virtually everyone EXCEPT the Federation has cloaking devices now. I don't like this idea.
Well, in game, which really isn't canon' there's a couple examples of Federation cloaked ships. The Galaxy X's and the refit Defiant types. But your point is well made for actual canon. The way I see it, the treaty that forbid the Federation from investing in cloaking technology has been largely ignored by the other sides, but they way they write the Fedeation is as if they are a bunch of boyscouts. Minus those episodes on DS9 with the attempted coup, and the Maquis, every Federation citizen plays by the rules within limits. Or at least that's how it's portrayed
Anyway, some of the events in the Typhon Pact series have me thinking. If the Romulans are able to share their cloaking technology with all of the members of the Typhon Pact, why is the Federation still bound by the Organian Treaty in not being able to develop their own cloaking technology? I would bet that the phased cloak that Riker's former commander was testing could benefit greatly by all of the better technology now available.
I think the treaty you're thinking of is the Treaty of Algeron, which is the treaty between the Romulans and Federation that forbids Starfleet from developing and using cloaking technology. The Organian Peace Treaty was the treaty essentially forced on the Federation and Klingons by the Organians, who were apparently not pleased about being "in the middle" of that conflict. By all accounts, the Organian Treaty is pretty much defunct, having been replaced by the Khitomer Accords.
Nevertheless, it is odd how the Federation continues to, at best, use cloaking technology rather sparingly, especially, if Memory Beta is accurate, the Romulan Empire is split into two powers during the Typhon Pact era.
As an avid reader, I have been reading the new Typhon Pact books. This doesn't really relate to the game as books are considered "soft cannon" and may or may not be included in the game. But hey, this is Ten Forward. Posts don't necessarily HAVE to relate to the game.
Anyway, some of the events in the Typhon Pact series have me thinking. If the Romulans are able to share their cloaking technology with all of the members of the Typhon Pact, why is the Federation still bound by the Organian Treaty in not being able to develop their own cloaking technology? I would bet that the phased cloak that Riker's former commander was testing could benefit greatly by all of the better technology now available.
Titan would get in a little less trouble if she could survey systems while cloaked.
Anyway, it just seems to me that virtually everyone EXCEPT the Federation has cloaking devices now. I don't like this idea.
Any thoughts?
as it was mentioned its the treaty of algeron
but the reason behind it was to keep the peace, the treaty was signed to prevent a full scale war.
the feds gave up cloaking tech and im sure the romulans made similar concessions. now the romulans can give their tech to anybody they like, it does not change the treaty of algeron and the feds are still bound to that treaty with the romulans. if they break it then it could lead to war.
now in game the romulans are a mess, and with the destruction of romulus it could be argued that the treaty is now null and void, and even if its not the feds could break it and develop clocks because the only thing the romulans can do is go to war, which they are no longer in shape to do.
in the books, if the romulans have made an alliance then the feds will obviously not want to anger them by breaking that treaty.
there are also many other races that dont have cloak. the borg, the dominion, the cardassians, the ferengi, the tholians, the tzenkethi, the breen (although that seems to be debatable as they were mentioned once as having clocks but then never actually seen), plus hundreds of the smaller races.
It is in no way "odd", it is a perfect example of the Federation goodwill spirit - the voluntary forgoing of military advantages in favor of better diplomatic relations with the faction in question. The UFP made considerable progress with the Romulan Star Empire over the past decades, and adhering to a treaty both parties signed in good faith is an attempt to preserve what has been achieved in the past whilst at the same time maintaining the Federation's galaxywide reputation as a faction that will not bail out of an agreement as soon as they are able to exploit a partner's temporary weakness.
The Treaty of Algeron is still in effect. If the Federation would be breaking it now this would only harm the last good contacts the UFP has to the current Romulan regime (and Donatra, if she should ever show up again), Sela's antagonistic stance notwithstanding.
As to why the other factions don't care about cloaking technology? Because they didn't sign the treaty. And because most other major factions don't give a damn about what the Romulans think about them. Or anyone else, for that matter.
The Galaxy-X is likely regarded as non-canon for STO (and it's not the only ship that is), whilst I personally see the Refit Defiant as an Admiral's own and questionable decision to circumvent the Treaty just like it was done two times before already (see the Pegasus incident in TNG, or one of the recent "Path to 2409" entries on the STO website). It is not unthinkable that many in the Federation government are unaware of these Refits.
Try to adopt a more idealistic, a more Federation way of thinking. If you want to be part of the good guys, act like it.
In regards to the Federation being restricted in developing a cloaking device for use - it's never explicitedly stated that the Federation gave up on developing technology to detect cloaked vessels. Several series have suggested that this is indeed the case, and I would expect that even the dumbest Federation negotiator would balk at the idea that Starfleet not do so. It's like in a real-life military - for every measure someone develops, there's somebody else looking for a countermeasure.
there are also many other races that dont have cloak. the borg, the dominion, the cardassians, the ferengi, the tholians, the tzenkethi, the breen (although that seems to be debatable as they were mentioned once as having clocks but then never actually seen), plus hundreds of the smaller races.
As you say, so far, the Romulans and the Klingons are the only races that have cloaking devices, at least for their ships. The Federation is seen using a cloaked holo-ship in Insurrection (Picard even refers to it as such), but it may be a holographic cloak, not the same type or as sophisticated as what's used by the Romulans and Klingons, but that's nitpicking. Why the Klingons started using cloaking devices in the first place (other than a trade of technology with the Romulans during their breif alliance and contiuned to do so because the Romulans used them) has not really been explained at any point during the TV and movie series.
The Breen were mentioned to have "similar technology" in the TNG episode "Hero Worship," and again in "Generations," but exactly how similar is, as you said, debatable, especially after what we saw in DS9. Considering how "secretive" the Breen are, it's possible that the idea that they have similar tech to the Romulans and Klingons might chalked up to misinformation, perhaps deliberately circulated by the Breen themselves.
Somehow, the Borg using a cloaking device doesn't suit their style. I always got the impression that the Borg operate as much on intimidation as they do raw power: they want you to see them coming and know there's nothing you can do about it. A Borg cube decloaking above a planet might cause the population to panic, but it just doesn't fit their modus operundi.
Considering the Tholians have been seen but three times in the whole of the Trek series, and only mentioned in others, and the Tzenkethi have never been seen, we don't really know a whole lot about about either power's tech (other than the Tholian nets). As for the Cardassians, I get the feeling they never saw the need for developing one. Most of their enemies (at least until the Federation) were technologically inferior to themselves (which might account for their attitudes regarding other races tech), so all their battles were comparitive cake walks (until the Klingons curb stomped them).
The Dominion's experience with cloaked enemies is rather hazy. Their ability to detect cloaked ships varied throughout DS9 - sometimes they could detect them, sometimes they couldn't. It's pretty obvious, though, that the Dominion saw no need to develop a device of their own; several characters sometimes mention that they "might" have them, but I think its obvious they didn't. Whether it was arrogance on the Dominion's part or just an oversight depends on your view.
As for the Ferengi - they are a merchantile race. They may deal in cloaking devices, they don't use them, as it would be a bit of an imposition. After all, how profitable would it be if your customers can't find you? And while it might be advantagous to hide your cargo ship from a band of Naussicaan priates, Ferengi "cargo ships" are pretty well armed and could probably take care of themselves.
Why the Klingons started using cloaking devices in the first place (other than a trade of technology with the Romulans during their breif alliance and contiuned to do so because the Romulans used them) has not really been explained at any point during the TV and movie series.
I did not think it would require an explanation - I've always seen it as an attempt to "balance" Klingon vessels with their more advanced Federation/Romulan opponents. A single Bird-of-Prey against a Federation cruiser is quite simply suicide - a cloaked B'rel gaining an edge due to surprise, however, turns the fight into a challenge for both sides.
Kudos to your list regarding the other factions, though. It's a nice and (imho) accurate list.
As for the Dominion: I think their reasoning was a combination of resource conservation (churning out lots and lots of inexpensive Jem'hadar Fighters with a small crew willing to just ram an enemy ship if told to do so) and the same kind of fondness for reputation and terror tactics you ascribe to the Borg - just look at the Quickening. It is possible that the only ship capable of actually fielding a cloaking device (they do eat a lot of power) and not at risk of blowing up the moment a real opponent opens fire might be their big cruisers. Which are always part of a larger fleet where the aforementioned terror tactics come into play. They want their target to see this coming, and the command ships will not be the first to open fire, instead holding back whilst waves of JH Fighters soften up the enemy. Cloaks simply don't make as much sense given this kind of swarm tactic.
Actually, according to an interview with Leonard Nimoy on the Star Trek III: the search for Spock Collector's Edition dvd, the ship used by Kruge was not supposed to be a Klingon ship at all. It was supposed to be a Romulan ship that Kruge had stolen so he could enter the Mutara Sector. That part of the script was scrapped and the ship therefore became a Klingon ship.
I did not think it would require an explanation - I've always seen it as an attempt to "balance" Klingon vessels with their more advanced Federation/Romulan opponents. A single Bird-of-Prey against a Federation cruiser is quite simply suicide - a cloaked B'rel gaining an edge due to surprise, however, turns the fight into a challenge for both sides.
Makes sense for the Bird-of-Prey, since it was, when it was introduced, barely a match for a Constitution-class ship in the first place (Kruge: "Why haven't they finished us? They outgun me 10 to 1.") At no point in TOS or the movies are the larger battlecruisers shown using cloaks (Undiscovered Country even suggests that BoPs are the only ships in the Klingon arsenal that carry cloaks at that time). However, by TNG, they had apparently equipped cloaking devices to all of their ships, even their capital ships. Apparently, they needed an edge over the massive Romulan Warbirds. *shrug*
Actually, according to an interview with Leonard Nimoy on the Star Trek III: the search for Spock Collector's Edition dvd, the ship used by Kruge was not supposed to be a Klingon ship at all. It was supposed to be a Romulan ship that Kruge had stolen so he could enter the Mutara Sector. That part of the script was scrapped and the ship therefore became a Klingon ship.
That's been pointed out on several occassions before; my guess is that that aspect was scrapped is so they didn't have to explain why a Romulan ship has consoles with Klingon graphics. This scrapping is probably also why Sulu calls the ship a "Klingon Bird-of-Prey" instead of a Romulan one. Although there is a certain wing-like appearance to the main hull of the D7/K't'inga battlecruisers, and the BoP does have the "bulb+stem" design common to the command sections of Klingon ships. The design of the Bird-of-Prey could, of course, be explained as a sharing of technology between the Romulans and Klingons during their brief alliance, just as the later Vor'cha attack cruiser is often been regarded as a result of technology sharing between the Federation and Klingons.
I also have to note that the term "Romulan Bird of Prey" is based on a comment made by one of the characters in "Balance of Terror," the Romulans' debut episode. In that episode, the character says that they can recognize a Romulan ship by the fact that they "paint their hulls with the image of a bird-of-prey." However, to memory, at no point is the ship itself ever called a "Bird-of-Prey," in either of its two apparances.
but the reason behind it was to keep the peace, the treaty was signed to prevent a full scale war.
the feds gave up cloaking tech and im sure the romulans made similar concessions. now the romulans can give their tech to anybody they like, it does not change the treaty of algeron and the feds are still bound to that treaty with the romulans. if they break it then it could lead to war.
now in game the romulans are a mess, and with the destruction of romulus it could be argued that the treaty is now null and void, and even if its not the feds could break it and develop clocks because the only thing the romulans can do is go to war, which they are no longer in shape to do.
in the books, if the romulans have made an alliance then the feds will obviously not want to anger them by breaking that treaty.
there are also many other races that dont have cloak. the borg, the dominion, the cardassians, the ferengi, the tholians, the tzenkethi, the breen (although that seems to be debatable as they were mentioned once as having clocks but then never actually seen), plus hundreds of the smaller races.
Actually, in the books the Breen, the Tzenkethi, the Tholians and a couple of other races have been given cloaking technology as part of the Typhon Pact agreement.
It is in no way "odd", it is a perfect example of the Federation goodwill spirit - the voluntary forgoing of military advantages in favor of better diplomatic relations with the faction in question. The UFP made considerable progress with the Romulan Star Empire over the past decades, and adhering to a treaty both parties signed in good faith is an attempt to preserve what has been achieved in the past whilst at the same time maintaining the Federation's galaxywide reputation as a faction that will not bail out of an agreement as soon as they are able to exploit a partner's temporary weakness.
The Treaty of Algeron is still in effect. If the Federation would be breaking it now this would only harm the last good contacts the UFP has to the current Romulan regime (and Donatra, if she should ever show up again), Sela's antagonistic stance notwithstanding.
As to why the other factions don't care about cloaking technology? Because they didn't sign the treaty. And because most other major factions don't give a damn about what the Romulans think about them. Or anyone else, for that matter.
The Galaxy-X is likely regarded as non-canon for STO (and it's not the only ship that is), whilst I personally see the Refit Defiant as an Admiral's own and questionable decision to circumvent the Treaty just like it was done two times before already (see the Pegasus incident in TNG, or one of the recent "Path to 2409" entries on the STO website). It is not unthinkable that many in the Federation government are unaware of these Refits.
Try to adopt a more idealistic, a more Federation way of thinking. If you want to be part of the good guys, act like it.
Hey Valais are you planning on reading the Typhon Pact books? I don't want to spoil it for you if you do plan on reading them...
Hey Valais are you planning on reading the Typhon Pact books? I don't want to spoil it for you if you do plan on reading them...
Heheh, no worries. I usually avoid Star Trek novels because the whole "non-canon" (or soft canon) aspect is a big turn-off for me. I do have a few Trek novels as well, but I generally appreciate a single consistent setting, and the "threat" that one novel contradicts another is quite large.
The only ST novels I'm reading belong to the Klingon Empire / IKS Gorkon series by DeCandido, which I use as inspiration for my roleplaying (given that there's very little information on Klingons in general). So ... if you want, feel free to spoil me.
Heheh, no worries. I usually avoid Star Trek novels because the whole "non-canon" (or soft canon) aspect is a big turn-off for me. I do have a few Trek novels as well, but I generally appreciate a single consistent setting, and the "threat" that one novel contradicts another is quite large.
The only ST novels I'm reading belong to the Klingon Empire / IKS Gorkon series by DeCandido, which I use as inspiration for my roleplaying (given that there's very little information on Klingons in general). So ... if you want, feel free to spoil me.
I was only going to say that at the end of this last novel (Rough Beasts of Empire) Donatra is dead, Talaura is dead, the Romulans are one again and under a new Praetor. And Sela now heads the Tal Shiar.
I think I saw one behind-the-scenes explanation for the Dominon that their technology was actually not quite as advanced as the Federation technology, at least on some level. Instead of building more cutting edge stuff, they focused on mass-production and getting the most out of the technology they had.
So, where the Federation did start developing quantum torpedoes, the Dominion would have started developing just better photon torpedoes. Smaller, Faster, or something like that. (Quantum Torpedoes might be a bad example, since at least in STO, the Dominion ships actually use Quantums. I don't think the torpedo used by them was named in DS9, despite us seeing one sticking out of the Defiant's hull and being disarmed by Quark and one of those Tula Berry traders.) Where the Federation would experiment with transwarp tech and soliton waves, the Dominion would build a more efficient traditional warp drive.
That said, both seemed to be pretty crafty - the Jem'Hardar quickly developed a way to beat the Defiant's cloaking device, and the Federation quickly developed counters to the Polaron beams that ignored standard issue shields at that time.
Either way, that might explain why cloaking device was not really available for Dominion ships - their tech level might not be good enough. Of course, the explanation that they also like to use terror and fear by announcing their presence might be a factor. One has to assume a lot of the work of the Dominion ships was patroling Dominion space and maintaining a presence that everyone would respect. Invisible ships can surprise and kinda intimidating, but they're not really good at maintaining a presence.
---
On another note, yesterday I spend some time reading the synposies of some of the recent Startrek novels. And while there seems to be a better attempt at creating a shared universe with some kind of "canonical" continuity... Can't say I like that continuity. The revealed Borg background feels... weak. (And also filled with a lot of technobabble that would make Voyager authors proud...)
I was only going to say that at the end of this last novel (Rough Beasts of Empire) Donatra is dead, Talaura is dead, the Romulans are one again and under a new Praetor. And Sela now heads the Tal Shiar.
So, all is as it was... So to speak.
Mhh. Have to say Sela would make a better Tal'Shiar chief than Empress (even though both positions would sadly take her off the playing field in terms of direct encounters), but I do think that STO's version of the RSE has potential, too. I also keep hoping for Donatra to make a reappearance - I want to see her and Sela duking it out for the position of leader of the Romulan people.
Mhh. Have to say Sela would make a better Tal'Shiar chief than Empress (even though both positions would sadly take her off the playing field in terms of direct encounters), but I do think that STO's version of the RSE has potential, too. I also keep hoping for Donatra to make a reappearance - I want to see her and Sela duking it out for the position of leader of the Romulan people.
Typhon's new Praetor isn't anyone we know, huh?
Cue the interfer-o-metric field!
Nah, some Senator named Kanemera (I think I misspelled that. Sorry, the book is at home and I am at work).
Spock knew her as an Ambassador from 50 years earlier, but I did not recognize the name.
On another note, yesterday I spend some time reading the synposies of some of the recent Startrek novels. And while there seems to be a better attempt at creating a shared universe with some kind of "canonical" continuity... Can't say I like that continuity. The revealed Borg background feels... weak. (And also filled with a lot of technobabble that would make Voyager authors proud...)
Perhaps... But it was still an interesting 3-part read. Instead of balking after the synopsis, try actually reading the 3 books. You might actually like it... I know I did.
Comments
I think the treaty you're thinking of is the Treaty of Algeron, which is the treaty between the Romulans and Federation that forbids Starfleet from developing and using cloaking technology. The Organian Peace Treaty was the treaty essentially forced on the Federation and Klingons by the Organians, who were apparently not pleased about being "in the middle" of that conflict. By all accounts, the Organian Treaty is pretty much defunct, having been replaced by the Khitomer Accords.
Nevertheless, it is odd how the Federation continues to, at best, use cloaking technology rather sparingly, especially, if Memory Beta is accurate, the Romulan Empire is split into two powers during the Typhon Pact era.
as it was mentioned its the treaty of algeron
but the reason behind it was to keep the peace, the treaty was signed to prevent a full scale war.
the feds gave up cloaking tech and im sure the romulans made similar concessions. now the romulans can give their tech to anybody they like, it does not change the treaty of algeron and the feds are still bound to that treaty with the romulans. if they break it then it could lead to war.
now in game the romulans are a mess, and with the destruction of romulus it could be argued that the treaty is now null and void, and even if its not the feds could break it and develop clocks because the only thing the romulans can do is go to war, which they are no longer in shape to do.
in the books, if the romulans have made an alliance then the feds will obviously not want to anger them by breaking that treaty.
there are also many other races that dont have cloak. the borg, the dominion, the cardassians, the ferengi, the tholians, the tzenkethi, the breen (although that seems to be debatable as they were mentioned once as having clocks but then never actually seen), plus hundreds of the smaller races.
The Treaty of Algeron is still in effect. If the Federation would be breaking it now this would only harm the last good contacts the UFP has to the current Romulan regime (and Donatra, if she should ever show up again), Sela's antagonistic stance notwithstanding.
As to why the other factions don't care about cloaking technology? Because they didn't sign the treaty. And because most other major factions don't give a damn about what the Romulans think about them. Or anyone else, for that matter.
The Galaxy-X is likely regarded as non-canon for STO (and it's not the only ship that is), whilst I personally see the Refit Defiant as an Admiral's own and questionable decision to circumvent the Treaty just like it was done two times before already (see the Pegasus incident in TNG, or one of the recent "Path to 2409" entries on the STO website). It is not unthinkable that many in the Federation government are unaware of these Refits.
Try to adopt a more idealistic, a more Federation way of thinking. If you want to be part of the good guys, act like it.
As you say, so far, the Romulans and the Klingons are the only races that have cloaking devices, at least for their ships. The Federation is seen using a cloaked holo-ship in Insurrection (Picard even refers to it as such), but it may be a holographic cloak, not the same type or as sophisticated as what's used by the Romulans and Klingons, but that's nitpicking. Why the Klingons started using cloaking devices in the first place (other than a trade of technology with the Romulans during their breif alliance and contiuned to do so because the Romulans used them) has not really been explained at any point during the TV and movie series.
The Breen were mentioned to have "similar technology" in the TNG episode "Hero Worship," and again in "Generations," but exactly how similar is, as you said, debatable, especially after what we saw in DS9. Considering how "secretive" the Breen are, it's possible that the idea that they have similar tech to the Romulans and Klingons might chalked up to misinformation, perhaps deliberately circulated by the Breen themselves.
Somehow, the Borg using a cloaking device doesn't suit their style. I always got the impression that the Borg operate as much on intimidation as they do raw power: they want you to see them coming and know there's nothing you can do about it. A Borg cube decloaking above a planet might cause the population to panic, but it just doesn't fit their modus operundi.
Considering the Tholians have been seen but three times in the whole of the Trek series, and only mentioned in others, and the Tzenkethi have never been seen, we don't really know a whole lot about about either power's tech (other than the Tholian nets). As for the Cardassians, I get the feeling they never saw the need for developing one. Most of their enemies (at least until the Federation) were technologically inferior to themselves (which might account for their attitudes regarding other races tech), so all their battles were comparitive cake walks (until the Klingons curb stomped them).
The Dominion's experience with cloaked enemies is rather hazy. Their ability to detect cloaked ships varied throughout DS9 - sometimes they could detect them, sometimes they couldn't. It's pretty obvious, though, that the Dominion saw no need to develop a device of their own; several characters sometimes mention that they "might" have them, but I think its obvious they didn't. Whether it was arrogance on the Dominion's part or just an oversight depends on your view.
As for the Ferengi - they are a merchantile race. They may deal in cloaking devices, they don't use them, as it would be a bit of an imposition. After all, how profitable would it be if your customers can't find you? And while it might be advantagous to hide your cargo ship from a band of Naussicaan priates, Ferengi "cargo ships" are pretty well armed and could probably take care of themselves.
Kudos to your list regarding the other factions, though. It's a nice and (imho) accurate list.
As for the Dominion: I think their reasoning was a combination of resource conservation (churning out lots and lots of inexpensive Jem'hadar Fighters with a small crew willing to just ram an enemy ship if told to do so) and the same kind of fondness for reputation and terror tactics you ascribe to the Borg - just look at the Quickening. It is possible that the only ship capable of actually fielding a cloaking device (they do eat a lot of power) and not at risk of blowing up the moment a real opponent opens fire might be their big cruisers. Which are always part of a larger fleet where the aforementioned terror tactics come into play. They want their target to see this coming, and the command ships will not be the first to open fire, instead holding back whilst waves of JH Fighters soften up the enemy. Cloaks simply don't make as much sense given this kind of swarm tactic.
Makes sense for the Bird-of-Prey, since it was, when it was introduced, barely a match for a Constitution-class ship in the first place (Kruge: "Why haven't they finished us? They outgun me 10 to 1.") At no point in TOS or the movies are the larger battlecruisers shown using cloaks (Undiscovered Country even suggests that BoPs are the only ships in the Klingon arsenal that carry cloaks at that time). However, by TNG, they had apparently equipped cloaking devices to all of their ships, even their capital ships. Apparently, they needed an edge over the massive Romulan Warbirds. *shrug*
Thanks
That's been pointed out on several occassions before; my guess is that that aspect was scrapped is so they didn't have to explain why a Romulan ship has consoles with Klingon graphics. This scrapping is probably also why Sulu calls the ship a "Klingon Bird-of-Prey" instead of a Romulan one. Although there is a certain wing-like appearance to the main hull of the D7/K't'inga battlecruisers, and the BoP does have the "bulb+stem" design common to the command sections of Klingon ships. The design of the Bird-of-Prey could, of course, be explained as a sharing of technology between the Romulans and Klingons during their brief alliance, just as the later Vor'cha attack cruiser is often been regarded as a result of technology sharing between the Federation and Klingons.
I also have to note that the term "Romulan Bird of Prey" is based on a comment made by one of the characters in "Balance of Terror," the Romulans' debut episode. In that episode, the character says that they can recognize a Romulan ship by the fact that they "paint their hulls with the image of a bird-of-prey." However, to memory, at no point is the ship itself ever called a "Bird-of-Prey," in either of its two apparances.
Actually, in the books the Breen, the Tzenkethi, the Tholians and a couple of other races have been given cloaking technology as part of the Typhon Pact agreement.
Hey Valais are you planning on reading the Typhon Pact books? I don't want to spoil it for you if you do plan on reading them...
The only ST novels I'm reading belong to the Klingon Empire / IKS Gorkon series by DeCandido, which I use as inspiration for my roleplaying (given that there's very little information on Klingons in general). So ... if you want, feel free to spoil me.
I was only going to say that at the end of this last novel (Rough Beasts of Empire) Donatra is dead, Talaura is dead, the Romulans are one again and under a new Praetor. And Sela now heads the Tal Shiar.
So, all is as it was... So to speak.
So, where the Federation did start developing quantum torpedoes, the Dominion would have started developing just better photon torpedoes. Smaller, Faster, or something like that. (Quantum Torpedoes might be a bad example, since at least in STO, the Dominion ships actually use Quantums. I don't think the torpedo used by them was named in DS9, despite us seeing one sticking out of the Defiant's hull and being disarmed by Quark and one of those Tula Berry traders.) Where the Federation would experiment with transwarp tech and soliton waves, the Dominion would build a more efficient traditional warp drive.
That said, both seemed to be pretty crafty - the Jem'Hardar quickly developed a way to beat the Defiant's cloaking device, and the Federation quickly developed counters to the Polaron beams that ignored standard issue shields at that time.
Either way, that might explain why cloaking device was not really available for Dominion ships - their tech level might not be good enough. Of course, the explanation that they also like to use terror and fear by announcing their presence might be a factor. One has to assume a lot of the work of the Dominion ships was patroling Dominion space and maintaining a presence that everyone would respect. Invisible ships can surprise and kinda intimidating, but they're not really good at maintaining a presence.
---
On another note, yesterday I spend some time reading the synposies of some of the recent Startrek novels. And while there seems to be a better attempt at creating a shared universe with some kind of "canonical" continuity... Can't say I like that continuity. The revealed Borg background feels... weak. (And also filled with a lot of technobabble that would make Voyager authors proud...)
Typhon's new Praetor isn't anyone we know, huh?
Cue the interfer-o-metric field!
Nah, some Senator named Kanemera (I think I misspelled that. Sorry, the book is at home and I am at work).
Spock knew her as an Ambassador from 50 years earlier, but I did not recognize the name.
Perhaps... But it was still an interesting 3-part read. Instead of balking after the synopsis, try actually reading the 3 books. You might actually like it... I know I did.