Welcome to the magic universe, where things don't behave consistently from PC to NPC and beyond!
I've complained about this many times, and not just at STO. If I'm fighting a Human (Terran Empire, for instance) Captain with MY Human Captain, there's no logical reason he should have more health or shielding than me, and there's no reason our weapons should do different damage.
You can get away with this kind of inconsistency in a game where reality can be changed from one moment to the next (such as with Fantasy, where magic can have whatever effect you want), but in a REALISTIC world such as SCIENCE fiction provides, it destroys immersion and breaks the sense of a contiguous world.
The idea of AI (Artificial Intelligence) is lost on most. It is cheaper, more feasible, and technologically more sound, to up some npc powers in PVE.
The reason is there is no code to give you the challenge that real players can give.
I know this makes no sense and has no bearing on the thread. The OP already thinks that real players have too much of a advantage on him. Just look at the sig.
Sigh, two threads. I did kinda hope you would stay in the PvP forums where not only were you unsuited and skilled to be, but at least we wouldn't have to hear the "overpowered" complaints.
Trouble in PvE, you could ask for help. Lots of us would show you how these are not problems and even in T1 ships can get the job done.
At the risk of a "Infraction"............."My god they promote anyone to Admiral these days...."
How willasking for help will help? Is there a counter to a Phaser proc that I'm not aware of?
To make the PvE's "challenging" all they would have to do is make the enemies dodge behind the overnumerous rocks floating about instead of taking the easy route and altering physics breaking the immersion IMO.
THis is all related to the (apparently) algorithimic enemy scaling.
The developers have said they're going to reduce stats on enemies (which is why they proc so often - it happens when you scale health, damage, healing, and crits to an equation). instead, they're going to focus on giving enemies a similarly broad powerset to whatever level you encounter them at: meaning they won't have one attack and either a secondary or healing - they'll be more players, rather than ubergods.
THis is all related to the (apparently) algorithimic enemy scaling.
The developers have said they're going to reduce stats on enemies (which is why they proc so often - it happens when you scale health, damage, healing, and crits to an equation). instead, they're going to focus on giving enemies a similarly broad powerset to whatever level you encounter them at: meaning they won't have one attack and either a secondary or healing - they'll be more players, rather than ubergods.
I foresee much wailing and gnashing of teeth. Players are scary.
THis is all related to the (apparently) algorithimic enemy scaling.
The developers have said they're going to reduce stats on enemies (which is why they proc so often - it happens when you scale health, damage, healing, and crits to an equation). instead, they're going to focus on giving enemies a similarly broad powerset to whatever level you encounter them at: meaning they won't have one attack and either a secondary or healing - they'll be more players, rather than ubergods.
The developers are also changing up ground weapons.
Pistols will have a shorter range than a sniper rifle. A pistol spray will be more effective soon in close quarters while a sniper rifle is preferred over open-terrain.
there are a lot of changes coming to ground combat to make the weapons "feel" not just look different.
If it were up to me, I'd rescale everything. PCs and NPCs alike would not gain health as they gain level. Instead, their health would remain static while SKILLS increased (as they already do). An NPC Captain would have the same stats as a PC Captain. He would be more challenging to a Lieutenant by virtue of his higher skills and more powerful weapons and shields (which PCs also get).
Same thing with ships. They should have stats and abilities that function at the same level as ours. We shouldnt be seeing every foe using Science Captain skills (Subnucleonic Beam, for example). Cruisers would use Engineer skills, Escorts Tactical and Science Science. Of course any ship would be able to use appropriate BO skills (limited by the class of the ship - B'Rel BOPs shouldn't be using Commander level BO skills).
After I'd leveled the playing field this way, I'd give NPC a minor boost to health to account for AI deficiencies.
I really don't want NPC's to have all the powers that PC's have. An AI can react and do things that a player who has to deal with reaction times and latency can't possibly do.
Kind of how everytime I fire off a tri-cobalt device, the enemy manages to target and destroy it while it's halfway hanging out of my torpedo launcher. No player could possibly have that kind of reaction time. But, the NPC's do.
I really don't want NPC's to have all the powers that PC's have. An AI can react and do things that a player who has to deal with reaction times and latency can't possibly do.
Kind of how everytime I fire off a tri-cobalt device, the enemy manages to target and destroy it while it's halfway hanging out of my torpedo launcher. No player could possibly have that kind of reaction time. But, the NPC's do.
You know, I hear this all the time, but 90% of my 3cobalts hit their targets...
That said, it should be a consistent universe. If a Captain (ie L40) human character has 300 health, then it shouldn't matter whether it's an NPC or a PC. If Jam Sensors 2 will blind a target for 15 seconds and break if damage is done, then it should do that whether it's a PC or an NPC. If a Cheyenne Cruiser has 30000 hull, then it shouldn't matter if it's a PC or an NPC.
Oh, and when I travel 100 years into the past, I should be able to disable a 100 year out of date battlecruiser with nearly no trouble.
You know, I hear this all the time, but 90% of my 3cobalts hit their targets...
That said, it should be a consistent universe. If a Captain (ie L40) human character has 300 health, then it shouldn't matter whether it's an NPC or a PC. If Jam Sensors 2 will blind a target for 15 seconds and break if damage is done, then it should do that whether it's a PC or an NPC. If a Cheyenne Cruiser has 30000 hull, then it shouldn't matter if it's a PC or an NPC.
Oh, and when I travel 100 years into the past, I should be able to disable a 100 year out of date battlecruiser with nearly no trouble.
Yeah, but everything that is logical and supported by lore will be trumped by Game Balance and Game Mechanics.
If they were that outclassed by you in that mission, there would have been no challenge. I mean, makes no sense that the old Spaniard Klingons would have personal shields, but they do.
A plasma torp is a plasma torp is a plasma torp, unless fired by an Undine. Then it is a flaming ball of death that will burn your ship to the ground while it still has full shields.
I would be loving it if they did get rid of all the holds.
I don't mind holds and roots, what mothers me is when my ground battle is
(borg are the worst offenders)
root
hold
root
hold
assimilate
hold
root
and my space battle is
(using breen as an example but there are others)
tractor beam
subnucleonic beam
tractor beam from 4 sources
tractor beam
power drain
tractorbeam
Roots and holds and sensor scrambling is all well and good, but they should have to be used more sparingly.
And i am glad that the AI will get some polish too so that it is not just a health and damage buff to make them more "challenging". Though i understand you can only make an AI so smart, especially in an MMO
While the Borg 'Taco dance does get rather tedious, there's counters to almost everything in regards to powers in space combat.
For instance, get hit with subnucleonic? Beam a science team onto your ship.
Getting hit by 5 frigates with tractors? Be sure to train up PH.
It's all about tactics. And for the OP, how many times have you seen canon examples of more than phasers and torpedoes hitting your opponents ship?
Many .. MANY times.
Deflector... pulse....
Tachyon .... pulse
et.al.
But our other esteemed contributors have hit the nail on the head - you actually buff up the AI to have the same stuff as we grubbly humans do, we'd all be mopped on the floor (well, I wouldn't but that's a different story ) as the AI not only can react in microseconds, but also has access to information we as humans do not. So , there's a fine line between making scaling enemies WAAAAAY to powerful, and WAAAY to weak.
Cryptic is finding the middle-ground, just takes some time.
But our other esteemed contributors have hit the nail on the head - you actually buff up the AI to have the same stuff as we grubbly humans do, we'd all be mopped on the floor (well, I wouldn't but that's a different story ) as the AI not only can react in microseconds, but also has access to information we as humans do not.
Exactly. The problem you run into is that most AIs are dumb, so the standard way of dealing with their stupidity is to to make the buggers cheat like mad. So adding player abilities to the AI will probably run into some problems. As it is I suspect they won't be tinkering with the AI code for a while since it seems the coming ground combat revamp is going to take a ton of developer time and resources. So in the mean time, I would honestly suggest checking out the excellent article "what counters what?"
Having stacking resistance to holds based on the last time one was applied is necessary. I dislike chain holds in PvP.
In both space and ground.
Every other major game does this (because it really does take skill out of the equation for the most part.) so why doesn't STO?
Yeah, but everything that is logical and supported by lore will be trumped by Game Balance and Game Mechanics.
If they were that outclassed by you in that mission, there would have been no challenge. I mean, makes no sense that the old Spaniard Klingons would have personal shields, but they do.
A plasma torp is a plasma torp is a plasma torp, unless fired by an Undine. Then it is a flaming ball of death that will burn your ship to the ground while it still has full shields.
There's no reason you can't have foes acting more realistically and remain balanced. Honestly, they could have gone with a Rainbow 6 style of ranged combat, where one hit kills (which is usually the case on the shows, actually). Of course, this would require AI that acts intelligently, taking cover and so forth, but that has been possible for decades.
Challenge can and should be achieved by means OTHER than letting the NPCs cheat. At the very least, the cheating should be less extreme. Consider, a Swordsman 30 levels below me has MORE health and shields than I have. It's more than a bit much
I don't mind holds and roots, what mothers me is when my ground battle is
(borg are the worst offenders)
root
hold
root
hold
assimilate
hold
root
and my space battle is
(using breen as an example but there are others)
tractor beam
subnucleonic beam
tractor beam from 4 sources
tractor beam
power drain
tractorbeam
Roots and holds and sensor scrambling is all well and good, but they should have to be used more sparingly.
And i am glad that the AI will get some polish too so that it is not just a health and damage buff to make them more "challenging". Though i understand you can only make an AI so smart, especially in an MMO
You missed "Beam in 2 Protoborg that can just about one shot you for every Borg there" in your description.
Also the space battles with the Sci Ship starting off with FBP so you can't shoot them, but you have to get their attention to protect something.....
You missed "Beam in 2 Protoborg that can just about one shot you for every Borg there" in your description.
Also the space battles with the Sci Ship starting off with FBP so you can't shoot them, but you have to get their attention to protect something.....
Honestly, I don't find the feedback pulse to be that big a deal. Science abilities have been so severely nerfed, it does very little harm, and what harm it does is easily countered with a SNB or Reversed Polarity.
I stopped fighting the borg ages ago. Not because they're difficult, but because they're not fun to play against. They're tedious and annoying.
Irony is a Chel Gret Cruiser at 0 Hull Points still circling around and firing at me while generating just enough of a sliver of shields to stay afloat somehow on Advanced.
Justice is a nearby Deferi Transport plucking him with a Phaser Turret and Phaser procing his shields away so I can kill him!
Comments
I've complained about this many times, and not just at STO. If I'm fighting a Human (Terran Empire, for instance) Captain with MY Human Captain, there's no logical reason he should have more health or shielding than me, and there's no reason our weapons should do different damage.
You can get away with this kind of inconsistency in a game where reality can be changed from one moment to the next (such as with Fantasy, where magic can have whatever effect you want), but in a REALISTIC world such as SCIENCE fiction provides, it destroys immersion and breaks the sense of a contiguous world.
It's a shame, really.
The idea of AI (Artificial Intelligence) is lost on most. It is cheaper, more feasible, and technologically more sound, to up some npc powers in PVE.
The reason is there is no code to give you the challenge that real players can give.
I know this makes no sense and has no bearing on the thread. The OP already thinks that real players have too much of a advantage on him. Just look at the sig.
Sigh, two threads. I did kinda hope you would stay in the PvP forums where not only were you unsuited and skilled to be, but at least we wouldn't have to hear the "overpowered" complaints.
Trouble in PvE, you could ask for help. Lots of us would show you how these are not problems and even in T1 ships can get the job done.
At the risk of a "Infraction"............."My god they promote anyone to Admiral these days...."
Oi thats not an infraction, you wana see an infraction I'll tell ya all the things i'de do to your avatar.
To make the PvE's "challenging" all they would have to do is make the enemies dodge behind the overnumerous rocks floating about instead of taking the easy route and altering physics breaking the immersion IMO.
The developers have said they're going to reduce stats on enemies (which is why they proc so often - it happens when you scale health, damage, healing, and crits to an equation). instead, they're going to focus on giving enemies a similarly broad powerset to whatever level you encounter them at: meaning they won't have one attack and either a secondary or healing - they'll be more players, rather than ubergods.
I foresee much wailing and gnashing of teeth. Players are scary.
That sounds Awesome!
But I agree there will be much QQ about it.
The developers are also changing up ground weapons.
Pistols will have a shorter range than a sniper rifle. A pistol spray will be more effective soon in close quarters while a sniper rifle is preferred over open-terrain.
there are a lot of changes coming to ground combat to make the weapons "feel" not just look different.
Same thing with ships. They should have stats and abilities that function at the same level as ours. We shouldnt be seeing every foe using Science Captain skills (Subnucleonic Beam, for example). Cruisers would use Engineer skills, Escorts Tactical and Science Science. Of course any ship would be able to use appropriate BO skills (limited by the class of the ship - B'Rel BOPs shouldn't be using Commander level BO skills).
After I'd leveled the playing field this way, I'd give NPC a minor boost to health to account for AI deficiencies.
This game is totally based on holds.
I would be loving it if they did get rid of all the holds.
Kind of how everytime I fire off a tri-cobalt device, the enemy manages to target and destroy it while it's halfway hanging out of my torpedo launcher. No player could possibly have that kind of reaction time. But, the NPC's do.
You know, I hear this all the time, but 90% of my 3cobalts hit their targets...
That said, it should be a consistent universe. If a Captain (ie L40) human character has 300 health, then it shouldn't matter whether it's an NPC or a PC. If Jam Sensors 2 will blind a target for 15 seconds and break if damage is done, then it should do that whether it's a PC or an NPC. If a Cheyenne Cruiser has 30000 hull, then it shouldn't matter if it's a PC or an NPC.
Oh, and when I travel 100 years into the past, I should be able to disable a 100 year out of date battlecruiser with nearly no trouble.
Yeah, but everything that is logical and supported by lore will be trumped by Game Balance and Game Mechanics.
If they were that outclassed by you in that mission, there would have been no challenge. I mean, makes no sense that the old Spaniard Klingons would have personal shields, but they do.
A plasma torp is a plasma torp is a plasma torp, unless fired by an Undine. Then it is a flaming ball of death that will burn your ship to the ground while it still has full shields.
I don't mind holds and roots, what mothers me is when my ground battle is
(borg are the worst offenders)
root
hold
root
hold
assimilate
hold
root
and my space battle is
(using breen as an example but there are others)
tractor beam
subnucleonic beam
tractor beam from 4 sources
tractor beam
power drain
tractorbeam
Roots and holds and sensor scrambling is all well and good, but they should have to be used more sparingly.
And i am glad that the AI will get some polish too so that it is not just a health and damage buff to make them more "challenging". Though i understand you can only make an AI so smart, especially in an MMO
For instance, get hit with subnucleonic? Beam a science team onto your ship.
Getting hit by 5 frigates with tractors? Be sure to train up PH.
It's all about tactics. And for the OP, how many times have you seen canon examples of more than phasers and torpedoes hitting your opponents ship?
Many .. MANY times.
Deflector... pulse....
Tachyon .... pulse
et.al.
But our other esteemed contributors have hit the nail on the head - you actually buff up the AI to have the same stuff as we grubbly humans do, we'd all be mopped on the floor (well, I wouldn't but that's a different story
Cryptic is finding the middle-ground, just takes some time.
Regards,
Having stacking resistance to holds based on the last time one was applied is necessary. I dislike chain holds in PvP.
So is there a ground workaround for Borg holds? Those holds are the single reason I don't do ground combat pvp.
Exactly. The problem you run into is that most AIs are dumb, so the standard way of dealing with their stupidity is to to make the buggers cheat like mad.
So adding player abilities to the AI will probably run into some problems. As it is I suspect they won't be tinkering with the AI code for a while since it seems the coming ground combat revamp is going to take a ton of developer time and resources. So in the mean time, I would honestly suggest checking out the excellent article "what counters what?"
In both space and ground.
Every other major game does this (because it really does take skill out of the equation for the most part.) so why doesn't STO?
There's no reason you can't have foes acting more realistically and remain balanced. Honestly, they could have gone with a Rainbow 6 style of ranged combat, where one hit kills (which is usually the case on the shows, actually). Of course, this would require AI that acts intelligently, taking cover and so forth, but that has been possible for decades.
Challenge can and should be achieved by means OTHER than letting the NPCs cheat. At the very least, the cheating should be less extreme. Consider, a Swordsman 30 levels below me has MORE health and shields than I have. It's more than a bit much
You missed "Beam in 2 Protoborg that can just about one shot you for every Borg there" in your description.
Also the space battles with the Sci Ship starting off with FBP so you can't shoot them, but you have to get their attention to protect something.....
Honestly, I don't find the feedback pulse to be that big a deal. Science abilities have been so severely nerfed, it does very little harm, and what harm it does is easily countered with a SNB or Reversed Polarity.
I stopped fighting the borg ages ago. Not because they're difficult, but because they're not fun to play against. They're tedious and annoying.
Responses in COLOUR!
Justice is a nearby Deferi Transport plucking him with a Phaser Turret and Phaser procing his shields away so I can kill him!
Thank you for the opinions on my sig.
I have since updated it to reflect my New Years Resolution.