Was just watching some videos on the new Bioware game coming out in and they were talking about the space system. They said ... it was ... going to be .... a RAIL SYSTEM!!! Omg, I had enough complaints about too much instancing in STO and how space didn't feel very open ... but a RAIL SHOOTER??? OMFG. Although it looks to be a very impressive game I don't know if I can handle this lol.
I will choose to get my free months sub to TOR, only to make a Trek Character and to taunt the Warsians and laugh at them after the game falls into the massive black hole left by APB and Hellgate: London (although Im inclinded to believe it was Matrix Online that created it)
At the end of the day, all it boils down to, in my generation (1980 - now) your either Star Wars or Star Trek and I think im amongst good company here. STO dosent fear TOR, TOR fears STO!
I'm really looking forward to SWTOR, and the on-rails shooter you mentioned looks great. I remember my jaw hitting the floor when they first released that footage. Having twiddled my thumbs for many a time on the back of a Griff in Wow, this looks like the next best step for assisted travelling. I'll be getting SWTOR, yet i will continue to play STO just as much. I love both universes and i hope they both have great futures ahead of them. Why pick sides when both sides offer so much?
Yep, lost interest when they started to mess with space, for it's just not what they should be doing. Guess someone cried wolf in space and was heard. Inconceivable...
There's a few hinging factors on whether or not I end up playing TOR... but I've really been more and more disappointed with bioware's work lately. They seem more focused on limiting the player to -their- story than allowing the player a variety of options. I dont think Bioware understands just how much customization and personalization mean to players - especially MMO players. ToR, from what I've seen, will have virtually zero ship or clothing/armor customization options, they're limiting you to only the near-human species, and they're really giving no room for the roleplayers to do their thing.
being a bioware game i don't know what people were expecting, what did space combat consist of in KOTOR1 and 2? rail shooter.
as for RP, with all it's options people say the same for STO, personally i just find those to be excuses for poor roleplaying since it is mostly what you make of it.
There's a few hinging factors on whether or not I end up playing TOR... but I've really been more and more disappointed with bioware's work lately. They seem more focused on limiting the player to -their- story than allowing the player a variety of options. I dont think Bioware understands just how much customization and personalization mean to players - especially MMO players. ToR, from what I've seen, will have virtually zero ship or clothing/armor customization options, they're limiting you to only the near-human species, and they're really giving no room for the roleplayers to do their thing.
Will we have a lot of customization options for making our characters? (asked by Galivos)
Because you will see your character's face so frequently during conversations in the game, it's absolutely critical that you can look awesome and unique. We have plenty of face/head/body customization options just in character creation, not to mention all of the amazing-looking equipment and gear you will find in the world.
They're not allowing any of the non-near-human species because "all playable species must speak basic with no accent and fit into the same armor". There is no ship customization, you get the ship for your class and that's that. Every class/ advanced class has their own armor - you cant mix and match, the best we can hope for is the ability to dye/color our gear. Every class/advanced class has their own weapons - if you want to be this type of jedi, you have to use this type of lightsaber and these force powers, no exceptions.
Bioware is and has been heading towards less options in favor of stricter storyline in every one of their games over the past several years. In Dragon age 2, you wont be able to play anything but a human, and you wont even be able to choose your background, which is what people liked so much about the first game to begin with. They went from having a huge number of weapon and armor options in mass effect to having no more than a handful in mass effect 2.
I used to be a pretty hardcore bioware fan but my opinion of the company keeps dropping as they add more and more unnecessary restrictions and limitations to their games. Telling a good story only gets you so far, and in the face of so many options and paths that other MMO's give you, TOR is going to be struggling to keep up on story alone.
EDIT: and to respond to your edit/quote - any MMO will have lots of face customization options, but what's the point when each class in SW:TOR will only have 2-3 species to pick from? And all of those will look like nothing more than humans with tinted skin and a few tentacles or spikes thrown in.
They're not allowing any of the non-near-human species
And we are very happy about that, thats one thing i dident like iun the STO caracter creation.That you have a option to make a tiny alien that really is not iconic STAR TREK race.Just a mix of the other races.I dont say that players should have the option if they like it.Its just my opinion that this was a good move by BW.Keep it more canon and as you say those caracters need to talk.
Thanks for the link, it was an interesting read. I can say that TOR is shaping up nicely. Can't wait to give it a chance when it's out. However, it is weird that they focus on the ground game and somewhat oversimplify the space portion.
EDIT: and to respond to your edit/quote - any MMO will have lots of face customization options, but what's the point when each class in SW:TOR will only have 2-3 species to pick from? And all of those will look like nothing more than humans with tinted skin and a few tentacles or spikes thrown in.
To respond here, the RP community in Wow is going on very strong. And that's filled with mostly near humans. (Tauren get no love. Why? Cause their ugly. And stupid)
Besides anyone, that knows anything about ST, or SW and one of the things they have in common is that frankly only humans and near humans get anything done. Everyone else is just a villain of the week or doormat of the week.
And frankly given the stupidly diverse options we have for Aliens in STO, you don't see an awful lot of non near humans. Why? We naturally identify better with human/nonhuman. We have a built in genetic bias for those as preferences.
As far as ME1 vs ME2 goes customization wise, there's only One facet I miss of it. And that's the upgrade slots. Everything else was stupid. As there were flat out By Far superior weapons to other weapons in ME1. Same with armors. There is no sense in denying that. Options which everyone would have taken anyway especially if they played on the higher difficulties. For Dragonage 2, frankly unless they really are going to incorporate an ME1/2 style combat system I'm probably not interested anyway. And frankly I found the characters to have the body language of store mannequins, so it was really jarring for me anyway. Let alone the main character not having a voice, when the camera would repeatedly pan to you when you clicked options. And then you throw in the fact that your hero frankly doesn't really react to anything made me feel the interaction was forced and half hearted compared to Mass Effects. So I'm glad they are addressing that in the sequel.
The thing that bother me most about SWTOR is Bioware's lack of consideration towards any sort of exploration. In a panel discussion at PAX this year two of SWTOR developers pretty much pooh-poohed space exploration. Just from that statement alone, I feel the entire game will be "on rails" with very little chance to wander around.
In a perfect world I would love to see STO's space combat; SWTOR (supposed) ground combat; EVE Online's or SWG's crafting (pre-CU) and LOTRO's sense of exploration in a Star Wars game. Unfortunately, I will be still waiting.
My favorite scifi universe always was and will be Star Trek,I am not a big fan of SW.
Kotor is a single player role playing game made by Bioware(2003).
Kotor 2 is a single player role playing game made by Obsidian Entertainment(2004).
The online game will be SW:ToR.
Bioware makes very good single player RPGs but this will be their first online game and the focus will be on the ground aspect of the game.The majority of the STO players play this game for the space combat so I dont know why you all think that it will be a rival of STO.They are both scifi games thats all the common in the 2.
I will stay with STO too and I dont think that ToR will be a threat for this game because they attract different kind of players.
Thanks for the link, it was an interesting read. I can say that TOR is shaping up nicely. Can't wait to give it a chance when it's out. However, it is weird that they focus on the ground game and somewhat oversimplify the space portion.
I love JtL in SWG. It reminded me of Tie Fighter and X-Wing for the PC.
However, I loved Rebel Alliance I & II. TOR might be good or it might be bad. Only time will tell if the experience is fun or if the flight mode channels more minigame repetition than freedom.
Chances are they won't have many different maps for space flight and it'll feel a lot like STO's PvP portion in Space (same scenery all the time) but with less control.
The thing that bother me most about SWTOR is Bioware's lack of consideration towards any sort of exploration. In a panel discussion at PAX this year two of SWTOR developers pretty much pooh-poohed space exploration. Just from that statement alone, I feel the entire game will be "on rails" with very little chance to wander around.
In a perfect world I would love to see STO's space combat; SWTOR (supposed) ground combat; EVE Online's or SWG's crafting (pre-CU) and LOTRO's sense of exploration in a Star Wars game. Unfortunately, I will be still waiting.
But SW isn't about exploring new areas.... thats a ST thing (remember Cyrptic? Hello? So why haven't we you know actually explored anything? Ever? And no the star clusters aren't exploration... their XP there's a huge difference.) SW is more about the heroes overcoming adversity, and good vs evil while exploring the ranges within.
I've really been more and more disappointed with bioware's work lately. They seem more focused on limiting the player to -their- story than allowing the player a variety of options. I dont think Bioware understands just how much customization and personalization mean to players
Yes,compared to Baldurs Gate 2(it is still the best game I ever played in my life) which is already 10
years old every RPG on the market was a step backwards(player freedom,companions,story,alive and
big city,content).Dragon Age was a good try but it is still just a watered down BG2 with pretty graphic.
But SW isn't about exploring new areas.... thats a ST thing (remember Cyrptic? Hello? So why haven't we you know actually explored anything? Ever? And no the star clusters aren't exploration... their XP there's a huge difference.) SW is more about the heroes overcoming adversity, and good vs evil while exploring the ranges within.
I'll be playing both by the way.
And yet Star Wars succeed because the universe felt so lived-in and exotic. The establishing shots in the Mos Eisley Cantina made people want to explore that world.
True, Star Trek focused on exploration but it also focused on character development. Both really inspire people to explore the lore and see every nook and cranny.
But SW isn't about exploring new areas.... thats a ST thing (remember Cyrptic? Hello? So why haven't we you know actually explored anything? Ever? And no the star clusters aren't exploration... their XP there's a huge difference.) SW is more about the heroes overcoming adversity, and good vs evil while exploring the ranges within.
I'll be playing both by the way.
I left out the lack of exploration in STO because I thought it was pretty obvious.
As for exploration, any MMO without it is just not a AAA MMO in many players opinion's. Not to mention, the reason people want to play in MMO's regarding existing stories is so they can visit those locations from the story. In regards to SW, most people that have wanted it in an MMO want places to explore like Kuat shipyards or the deserts of Tatooine or the high towers of Corusant. Bioware is taking a more, "go to this location via an ingame cutscene and have dialogue/combat...go via cutscene to next location, wash and repeat". To paraphase the comment I mentioned in my post previously "hey Chewie, lets go up to space and just dic around"....yeah....I want to be able to make that decision.
And just for the record, I plan to play SWTOR for the first six months to a year. After that, Bioware had better provide more then an MMO on rails or I will be outta there.
I personally expect TOR to be the absolute "anti STO", it will probably have everything I miss in STO and lack everything I love at STO.
After all I've seen it has a very good ground combat system (but lets see what Cryptic will do with the great "Ground rework" in Season 4), and simply no "real" space combat at all (that Rail stuff is really just a minigame, TOR was announced originally without ANY space combat).
And, hell.... people keep comparing WOW with STO (and will do that with TOR for sure), where in WOW can you costumize your Starship?
But I#m actually afraid that TOR wont work out that good. I mean, like I guess the most here, I love Bioware games. And STO is supposed to be "story based". But how does "Story base" work out in an MMOs endcontent?
So I expect TOR to be a lot of fun to level up, but if that is the main focus, it might get boring after that....
Sad think is that Cryptic did not use the additional year. I'm definity more Star Trek then Star Wars fan (especially since 1999^^) but I thing there are much more Star Wars fans out there, and TOR will draw players from STO. Cryptic had a great chance since TOR was originally supposed to be released about the same time STO came out,but it was delayed for 1 year. That is a whole year for cryptic to convince people to stay in STO... there where some good improvements during the last month, no doupt, but I thing it was to little and to late for many players.
And we are very happy about that, thats one thing i dident like iun the STO caracter creation.That you have a option to make a tiny alien that really is not iconic STAR TREK race.Just a mix of the other races.I dont say that players should have the option if they like it.Its just my opinion that this was a good move by BW.Keep it more canon and as you say those caracters need to talk.
So your saying you want the federation to stay the same size and in the same areas it was at in game 30 years ago and not going around meeting new races and such?
Was just watching some videos on the new Bioware game coming out in and they were talking about the space system. They said ... it was ... going to be .... a RAIL SYSTEM!!! Omg, I had enough complaints about too much instancing in STO and how space didn't feel very open ... but a RAIL SHOOTER??? OMFG. Although it looks to be a very impressive game I don't know if I can handle this lol.
So your saying you want the federation to stay the same size and in the same areas it was at in game 30 years ago and not going around meeting new races and such?
I like that Option in STO. I mean I hate to see tons of Avatar "Na'vi" (or how ever you write that thinks) all over the place, but you are right: the federation has 200 members as as I remember, and it may discover new ones in the time since Nemesis.
In Star Wars on the other hand is no need for exploration: The whole Galaxy IS explored (as far is I know). But it is still a whole GALAXY, wich means there must be millions of species we havent seen in the movies/series yet.
I probably will try TOR but I don't like the graphics very much at all. They look kind blocky and to cartoonish. I really hope the game play is better than the graphics.
I think with all the hype it's got there are going to be plenty of disappointed people. The same thing Warhammer and AOC shortly after they launched.
To many have built this up to be the greatest MMO of all time so I think there forums will look like ours and the other two games. After the first month.
Was just watching some videos on the new Bioware game coming out in and they were talking about the space system. They said ... it was ... going to be .... a RAIL SYSTEM!!! Omg, I had enough complaints about too much instancing in STO and how space didn't feel very open ... but a RAIL SHOOTER??? OMFG. Although it looks to be a very impressive game I don't know if I can handle this lol.
Two completely different games and neither will be competition to the other.
TOR:
95% of the game will be ground combat, with 5% space rail combat during the story lines.
STO:
66% Space Combat with 33% ground combat
The idea that I think Bioware is heading for is for a non-stop iconic action game that represents the movies, like the whole opening scene from Episode III looked like it was on rails.
At this point I want to play both STO and TOR, as they are offering too completely different games in two completely different universes.
Comments
At the end of the day, all it boils down to, in my generation (1980 - now) your either Star Wars or Star Trek and I think im amongst good company here. STO dosent fear TOR, TOR fears STO!
---
Maybe SWG still has a chance then.
being a bioware game i don't know what people were expecting, what did space combat consist of in KOTOR1 and 2? rail shooter.
as for RP, with all it's options people say the same for STO, personally i just find those to be excuses for poor roleplaying since it is mostly what you make of it.
That's what I'm planning to do as well
would be nice to have a full 3D space system, but BW opted not to go that way.
Bullshiat...
From the last Q&A http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20101217#cqa
They're not allowing any of the non-near-human species because "all playable species must speak basic with no accent and fit into the same armor". There is no ship customization, you get the ship for your class and that's that. Every class/ advanced class has their own armor - you cant mix and match, the best we can hope for is the ability to dye/color our gear. Every class/advanced class has their own weapons - if you want to be this type of jedi, you have to use this type of lightsaber and these force powers, no exceptions.
Bioware is and has been heading towards less options in favor of stricter storyline in every one of their games over the past several years. In Dragon age 2, you wont be able to play anything but a human, and you wont even be able to choose your background, which is what people liked so much about the first game to begin with. They went from having a huge number of weapon and armor options in mass effect to having no more than a handful in mass effect 2.
I used to be a pretty hardcore bioware fan but my opinion of the company keeps dropping as they add more and more unnecessary restrictions and limitations to their games. Telling a good story only gets you so far, and in the face of so many options and paths that other MMO's give you, TOR is going to be struggling to keep up on story alone.
EDIT: and to respond to your edit/quote - any MMO will have lots of face customization options, but what's the point when each class in SW:TOR will only have 2-3 species to pick from? And all of those will look like nothing more than humans with tinted skin and a few tentacles or spikes thrown in.
And we are very happy about that, thats one thing i dident like iun the STO caracter creation.That you have a option to make a tiny alien that really is not iconic STAR TREK race.Just a mix of the other races.I dont say that players should have the option if they like it.Its just my opinion that this was a good move by BW.Keep it more canon and as you say those caracters need to talk.
Thanks for the link, it was an interesting read. I can say that TOR is shaping up nicely. Can't wait to give it a chance when it's out. However, it is weird that they focus on the ground game and somewhat oversimplify the space portion.
To respond here, the RP community in Wow is going on very strong. And that's filled with mostly near humans. (Tauren get no love. Why? Cause their ugly. And stupid)
Besides anyone, that knows anything about ST, or SW and one of the things they have in common is that frankly only humans and near humans get anything done. Everyone else is just a villain of the week or doormat of the week.
And frankly given the stupidly diverse options we have for Aliens in STO, you don't see an awful lot of non near humans. Why? We naturally identify better with human/nonhuman. We have a built in genetic bias for those as preferences.
As far as ME1 vs ME2 goes customization wise, there's only One facet I miss of it. And that's the upgrade slots. Everything else was stupid. As there were flat out By Far superior weapons to other weapons in ME1. Same with armors. There is no sense in denying that. Options which everyone would have taken anyway especially if they played on the higher difficulties. For Dragonage 2, frankly unless they really are going to incorporate an ME1/2 style combat system I'm probably not interested anyway. And frankly I found the characters to have the body language of store mannequins, so it was really jarring for me anyway. Let alone the main character not having a voice, when the camera would repeatedly pan to you when you clicked options. And then you throw in the fact that your hero frankly doesn't really react to anything made me feel the interaction was forced and half hearted compared to Mass Effects. So I'm glad they are addressing that in the sequel.
In a perfect world I would love to see STO's space combat; SWTOR (supposed) ground combat; EVE Online's or SWG's crafting (pre-CU) and LOTRO's sense of exploration in a Star Wars game. Unfortunately, I will be still waiting.
Kotor is a single player role playing game made by Bioware(2003).
Kotor 2 is a single player role playing game made by Obsidian Entertainment(2004).
The online game will be SW:ToR.
Bioware makes very good single player RPGs but this will be their first online game and the focus will be on the ground aspect of the game.The majority of the STO players play this game for the space combat so I dont know why you all think that it will be a rival of STO.They are both scifi games thats all the common in the 2.
I will stay with STO too and I dont think that ToR will be a threat for this game because they attract different kind of players.
I love JtL in SWG. It reminded me of Tie Fighter and X-Wing for the PC.
However, I loved Rebel Alliance I & II. TOR might be good or it might be bad. Only time will tell if the experience is fun or if the flight mode channels more minigame repetition than freedom.
Chances are they won't have many different maps for space flight and it'll feel a lot like STO's PvP portion in Space (same scenery all the time) but with less control.
But SW isn't about exploring new areas.... thats a ST thing (remember Cyrptic? Hello? So why haven't we you know actually explored anything? Ever? And no the star clusters aren't exploration... their XP there's a huge difference.) SW is more about the heroes overcoming adversity, and good vs evil while exploring the ranges within.
I'll be playing both by the way.
Yes,compared to Baldurs Gate 2(it is still the best game I ever played in my life) which is already 10
years old every RPG on the market was a step backwards(player freedom,companions,story,alive and
big city,content).Dragon Age was a good try but it is still just a watered down BG2 with pretty graphic.
And yet Star Wars succeed because the universe felt so lived-in and exotic. The establishing shots in the Mos Eisley Cantina made people want to explore that world.
True, Star Trek focused on exploration but it also focused on character development. Both really inspire people to explore the lore and see every nook and cranny.
I left out the lack of exploration in STO because I thought it was pretty obvious.
As for exploration, any MMO without it is just not a AAA MMO in many players opinion's. Not to mention, the reason people want to play in MMO's regarding existing stories is so they can visit those locations from the story. In regards to SW, most people that have wanted it in an MMO want places to explore like Kuat shipyards or the deserts of Tatooine or the high towers of Corusant. Bioware is taking a more, "go to this location via an ingame cutscene and have dialogue/combat...go via cutscene to next location, wash and repeat". To paraphase the comment I mentioned in my post previously "hey Chewie, lets go up to space and just dic around"....yeah....I want to be able to make that decision.
And just for the record, I plan to play SWTOR for the first six months to a year. After that, Bioware had better provide more then an MMO on rails or I will be outta there.
*sign*
Nice signature by the way.
I personally expect TOR to be the absolute "anti STO", it will probably have everything I miss in STO and lack everything I love at STO.
After all I've seen it has a very good ground combat system (but lets see what Cryptic will do with the great "Ground rework" in Season 4), and simply no "real" space combat at all (that Rail stuff is really just a minigame, TOR was announced originally without ANY space combat).
And, hell.... people keep comparing WOW with STO (and will do that with TOR for sure), where in WOW can you costumize your Starship?
But I#m actually afraid that TOR wont work out that good. I mean, like I guess the most here, I love Bioware games. And STO is supposed to be "story based". But how does "Story base" work out in an MMOs endcontent?
So I expect TOR to be a lot of fun to level up, but if that is the main focus, it might get boring after that....
Sad think is that Cryptic did not use the additional year. I'm definity more Star Trek then Star Wars fan (especially since 1999^^) but I thing there are much more Star Wars fans out there, and TOR will draw players from STO. Cryptic had a great chance since TOR was originally supposed to be released about the same time STO came out,but it was delayed for 1 year. That is a whole year for cryptic to convince people to stay in STO... there where some good improvements during the last month, no doupt, but I thing it was to little and to late for many players.
So your saying you want the federation to stay the same size and in the same areas it was at in game 30 years ago and not going around meeting new races and such?
If you want to discuss TOR then go to its forums.
I like that Option in STO. I mean I hate to see tons of Avatar "Na'vi" (or how ever you write that thinks) all over the place, but you are right: the federation has 200 members as as I remember, and it may discover new ones in the time since Nemesis.
In Star Wars on the other hand is no need for exploration: The whole Galaxy IS explored (as far is I know). But it is still a whole GALAXY, wich means there must be millions of species we havent seen in the movies/series yet.
Why should he? We COMPARE STO and TOR, so it is here as right as in the TOR forum.
But the Thread should be in 10 forward I guess, not in "Star Trek Online" discussion....
I think with all the hype it's got there are going to be plenty of disappointed people. The same thing Warhammer and AOC shortly after they launched.
To many have built this up to be the greatest MMO of all time so I think there forums will look like ours and the other two games. After the first month.
Two completely different games and neither will be competition to the other.
TOR:
95% of the game will be ground combat, with 5% space rail combat during the story lines.
STO:
66% Space Combat with 33% ground combat
The idea that I think Bioware is heading for is for a non-stop iconic action game that represents the movies, like the whole opening scene from Episode III looked like it was on rails.
At this point I want to play both STO and TOR, as they are offering too completely different games in two completely different universes.