test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Should the Dreadnaught be more like the Garumba?

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
The two ships are supposed to be counterparts but, overall, the Galaxy-X seems more like a Tier 4.5 going by most reviews whereas the Garumba seems very beloved. Note that I'm not even suggesting the Feds get more ships, just that the Galaxy-X get another balance pass to match its counterpart.

One thing I think would make a ton of sense is if the Galaxy-X could do Warp 14 in sector space. The ship was said to do Warp 14 and the Borg set enables travel at "Warp 14" in sector space so it seems like a natural fit to me.
Post edited by Unknown User on
«1

Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    I've always thought the Gal X was too weak to be a real T5, which is why I never use it. I'd love to see the two ships battle it out in a PvP video. I honestly don't think the Gal would stand a chance.

    Edit: I do agree with the enhanced Warp speed for the Gal. It's clearly doable in the tech now.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    The Galaxy-X has greater survivability potential compared to the Garumba - that's the trade-off.

    Most people don't like the Galaxy-X because it's very slow to maneuver, not necessarily because it's very underpowered.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    slow turn rate does not go well with phaser lance and the ability to carry cannons.

    for the garumba its a perfect fit.

    i dont think giving the galaxy x warp 13 or 14 or what ever will make it more appealing to people but im not against the inclusion as the borg set has it. improving the turn rate would make it more appealing.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    slow turn rate does not go well with phaser lance and the ability to carry cannons.
    Yeah, that's exactly the issue. Giving a limited firing arc weapon to the slowest turning ship in the fleet makes it offensively weak.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Cosmic_One wrote: »
    Yeah, that's exactly the issue. Giving a limited firing arc weapon to the slowest turning ship in the fleet makes it offensively weak.

    I think a slight survivability loss (it is a frankenship, after all) would go well with some kind of innate boost to firing arc. It doesn't have to be nimble but it could be more useful than it seems like it is. (I don't have quite 5 referrals yet and reviews of it have kept me from buying one in the C-Store.)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    The Galaxy-X is severely flawed, but its the closest thing the a battle crusier that the Feds have. I still like it.

    I haven't seen the Guramba in action, but it sounds interesting. It'd be nice if the Gx could get a shorter cooldown on the lance too.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Zutty wrote: »
    The Galaxy-X is severely flawed, but its the closest thing the a battle crusier that the Feds have. I still like it.

    I haven't seen the Guramba in action, but it sounds interesting. It'd be nice if the Gx could get a shorter cooldown on the lance too.

    Or if the spinal lance was 1/4 as good as it was in the single on camera instance we saw.
    It fired what, 3 times in a row? It blew right through a shielded Klingon top tier ship, hull and all
    to come out the other end.

    My lance is like a paper cut compared to that. I'd rather beam over to the Klingon ship and fight hand to hand.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    USSZenica wrote:
    Or if the spinal lance was 1/4 as good as it was in the single on camera instance we saw.
    It fired what, 3 times in a row? It blew right through a shielded Klingon top tier ship, hull and all
    to come out the other end.

    My lance is like a paper cut compared to that. I'd rather beam over to the Klingon ship and fight hand to hand.
    No game that has PvP is going to allow a one-shot weapon like that into play. The key word for all games with PvP is balance. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Then they should reduce the cooldown time for the Lance seeing how underpowered it is. That or add the 4th rear weapon slot
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Cosmic_One wrote: »
    No game that has PvP is going to allow a one-shot weapon like that into play. The key word for all games with PvP is balance. :)

    So, let's review.

    The Defiant Refit can't be like its on camera version (no "battle cloak")
    The Galaxy X can't be like its on camera version (no spinal lance, no "battle" cloak)
    The standard Galaxy class can't have the phased cloak although the BOP is being allowed
    a feature also only seen once.
    The "Prometheus" can't be like its on camera version (no vector assault mode)

    Neither Galaxy class or Escort Refit class ship is anywhere near as capable as the on camera version although this can be said of all Federation ships, in my opinion based on my experience.

    All this yet they want to give us more broken ships like the Oberth.

    I am not addressing klingon ships as I have no experience from which to form an opinion.

    EDIT:

    So by "balance" it means gimping the Federation faction? Clearly that is what crptic has done.
    (I was tempted to put an A in there somewhere)
    Neglecting to incorporate features those ships had on camera just so the game is balanced
    is total BS. It is no ones fault that the show started and centered around the Federation.
    It isn't anyone's blame that the shows primary characters were Starfleet personnel.
    It is a natural extension of the preceding truths that Starfleet would have developed advanced technology to counter threats, also shown on camera. I would think crptic (again, I refrained from the use of the A key) has more "artistic ability" with the klingons given they were NOT the center piece on camera. The latest klingon ship is testament to this.

    Gimping the Fed side is just crptic BS.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Cosmic_One wrote: »
    No game that has PvP is going to allow a one-shot weapon like that into play.

    halo? snipers, lots of pvp mmos have 1 shot kills, it's just better in games with hiding or the ability to avoid being hit
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    USSZenica wrote:
    So, let's review.

    The Defiant Refit can't be like its on camera version (no "battle cloak")
    The Galaxy X can't be like its on camera version (no spinal lance, no "battle" cloak)
    The standard Galaxy class can't have the phased cloak although the BOP is being allowed
    a feature also only seen once.
    The "Prometheus" can't be like its on camera version (no vector assault mode)

    Neither Galaxy class or Escort Refit class ship is anywhere near as capable as the on camera version although this can be said of all Federation ships, in my opinion based on my experience.

    All this yet they want to give us more broken ships like the Oberth.

    I am not addressing klingon ships as I have no experience from which to form an opinion.

    Cruisers/BoP's are capable of cloaking in and out of combat - cannon supports this - the battlecloak was cryptic's method to balance cloaking in game.

    If your referring to the B'rels Advanced Cloak - it does not operate as it does in the movie.

    Despite all this - here's some helpful advice - if you want this game to be more canon - you would have a better chance getting acting lessons and audition for the next star trek series or movie.

    Goto love Plot Weapons and Armor. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    USSZenica wrote:
    So, let's review.

    The Defiant Refit can't be like its on camera version (no "battle cloak")
    The Galaxy X can't be like its on camera version (no spinal lance, no "battle" cloak)
    The standard Galaxy class can't have the phased cloak although the BOP is being allowed
    a feature also only seen once.
    The "Prometheus" can't be like its on camera version (no vector assault mode)

    Neither Galaxy class or Escort Refit class ship is anywhere near as capable as the on camera version although this can be said of all Federation ships, in my opinion based on my experience.

    All this yet they want to give us more broken ships like the Oberth.

    I am not addressing klingon ships as I have no experience from which to form an opinion.
    Let me guess... this is your first MMO? Single-player games can do things that multiplayer games can't. Why? Because they only have to be balanced for 1 player.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Serpieri wrote: »
    Cruisers/BoP's are capable of cloaking in and out of combat - cannon supports this - the battlecloak was cryptic's method to balance cloaking in game.

    If your referring to the B'rels Advanced Cloak - it does not operate as it does in the movie.

    Despite all this - here's some helpful advice - if you want this game to be more canon - you would have a better chance getting acting lessons and audition for the next star trek series or movie.

    Goto love Plot Weapons and Armor. :)

    Feds cannot cloak in and out of combat unless you consider running away to cloak "in combat".
    In what ever limited form the BOP is like the movie version, limited exceeds not at all.

    Cosmic_One wrote: »
    Let me guess... this is your first MMO? Single-player games can do things that multiplayer games can't. Why? Because they only have to be balanced for 1 player.

    Yes it is.

    So by "balance" it means gimping the Federation faction? Clearly that is what crptic has done.
    (I was tempted to put an A in there somewhere)
    Neglecting to incorporate features those ships had on camera just so the game is balanced
    is total BS. It is no ones fault that the show started and centered around the Federation.
    It isn't anyone's blame that the shows primary characters were Starfleet personnel.
    It is a natural extension of the preceding truths that Starfleet would have developed advanced technology to counter threats, also shown on camera. I would think crptic (again, I refrained from the use of the A key) has more "artistic ability" with the klingons given they were NOT the center piece on camera. The latest klingon ship is testament to this. I say, let them run wild with the klingons but put the Fed in the game, as close as possible to how it was represented on camera. I understand some things will be a limitation of this being a game vs a studio produced television show but so far, its just gimping.

    Gimping the Fed side is just crptic BS.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    USSZenica wrote:
    Yes it is.

    So by "balance" it means gimping the Federation faction? Clearly that is what crptic has done.
    (I was tempted to put an A in there somewhere)
    Neglecting to incorporate features those ships had on camera just so the game is balanced
    is total BS. It is no ones fault that the show started and centered around the Federation.
    It isn't anyone's blame that the shows primary characters were Starfleet personnel.
    It is a natural extension of the preceding truths that Starfleet would have developed advanced technology to counter threats, also shown on camera. I would think crptic (again, I refrained from the use of the A key) has more "artistic ability" with the klingons given they were NOT the center piece on camera. The latest klingon ship is testament to this.

    Gimping the Fed side is just crptic BS.
    In MMOs with PvP you can't have an "I Win" item. If Defiant always won in the game everyone would simply play the Defiant. It's just that simple. No one would gimp themselves by playing a lesser ship. People are competitive and the game doesn't have directors and writers telling players how to do something. Writer's Fiat controls all of Trek. That works fine in single-player games but it completely fails in MMOs. As you play more MMOs in your life you're learn this.

    I'm not going to go into the whole "Feds are gimpled" thing again. I though after all those people explained to you how to build your ship you were over that. I guess you just need more practice, though.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    To get back on target:
    I have to say yes to a Gal-X redo it needs help bad. as it stands now the ship is a t4 trying to fight in a t5 world.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Cosmic_One wrote: »
    In MMOs with PvP you can't have an "I Win" item. If Defiant always won in the game everyone would simply play the Defiant. It's just that simple. No one would gimp themselves by playing a lesser ship. People are competitive and the game doesn't have directors and writers telling players how to do something. It's just that simple. Writer's Fiat controls off of Trek. That works fine in single-player games but it completely fails in MMOs. As you play more MMOs in your life you're learn this.

    I'm not going to go into the whole "Feds are gimpled" thing again. I though after all those people explained to you how to build your ship you were over that. I guess you just need more practice, though.

    By no means is having the Defiant and Galaxy X cloak as they should an "I WIN" button.
    The spinal lance is not an "I WIN" button, at best, it might be an "I BLEW YOU UP, NOW GO RESPAWN"
    button but as you pointed out, PvP isn't about one player so the remaining klingons would summarily finish that Galaxy X off since it would represent a significant threat. Thus bringing me to my next point, the survivability of that Captain would depend on his/her skills and choice of BOFFs.

    No, it seems gimping is how they chose to make balance but as someone else said, now that the cat is out of the bag, what will happen when the klingon side gets the content and ship selection they deserve? It will most certainly put the game out of balance.

    I for one, don't want or really like the crptic designed ships. I have played other games that took artistic license and created ship classes for star Trek but those were done tastefully, not hastily. I fear what crptic will do to "rebalance" the game once the klingons are brought to the level they should have been at one year ago.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Also keep in mind that by your estimation the Klingons have been gimped too - only the BoP can cloak in battle while the other Klingon ships have cloaks just like the Defiant and GalX, yet there is no canon justification for this, not to mention the fact that no one can enter warp while at red alert which they do constantly in the series - heck they fight while at warp.

    In any case the shows are not internally consistent to begin with. (Not me complaining, simply a fact) The first time the feds fight the Dominion 1 Galaxy + 3 Runabouts get pwned by 3 attack ships. Now, even without shields a Galaxy would make short work of the paper tiger that is the attack ship. Later on even BoPs take on multiple attack ships without too much problem. The point is that the actual combat capabilities of all on screen ships fluctuated by what the story called for.

    This is a game, and balance is needed. That doesn't mean either side is gimped, because in some ways they both are which makes them equal.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Rokesmith wrote: »
    Also keep in mind that by your estimation the Klingons have been gimped too - only the BoP can cloak in battle while the other Klingon ships have cloaks just like the Defiant and GalX, yet there is no canon justification for this, not to mention the fact that no one can enter warp while at red alert which they do constantly in the series - heck they fight while at warp.

    In any case the shows are not internally consistent to begin with. (Not me complaining, simply a fact) The first time the feds fight the Dominion 1 Galaxy + 3 Runabouts get pwned by 3 attack ships. Now, even without shields a Galaxy would make short work of the paper tiger that is the attack ship. Later on even BoPs take on multiple attack ships without too much problem. The point is that the actual combat capabilities of all on screen ships fluctuated by what the story called for.

    This is a game, and balance is needed. That doesn't mean either side is gimped, because in some ways they both are which makes them equal.

    I agree, all ships that can cloak should have what crptic calls the "battle cloak". All ships, all factions.
    At the start, I said I cannot speak for the klingon side...

    The episode you cited was the first time a Galaxy Class, The USS Odyssey, had encountered Dominion weapons or technology. Even rotating shield frequencies didn't stop the Dominion weapons from penetrating. This is the only time Dominion weapons presented such an obvious advantage. (save for the Breen energy dissipator)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Rokesmith wrote: »
    In any case the shows are not internally consistent to begin with. (Not me complaining, simply a fact) The first time the feds fight the Dominion 1 Galaxy + 3 Runabouts get pwned by 3 attack ships. Now, even without shields a Galaxy would make short work of the paper tiger that is the attack ship. Later on even BoPs take on multiple attack ships without too much problem. The point is that the actual combat capabilities of all on screen ships fluctuated by what the story called for.

    They did explain that in the show however. At that point in time, the Federation shields weren't adjusted yet to be able to handle Dominion weapons, nor Fed weapons to allow them to pwn Dominion ships. The Galaxy was effectively fighting shieldless with Mk I weapons at low weapon power.

    Of course, worth noting there that the Dominion sure spent a lot of time shooting up the poor ship, while every time a Fed ship gets the ability to bypass shields (or take them down), they do some pin point shooting and disable the other ship with a single hit. And, for that matter, any time the TNG Enterprise gets hit once through shields, it loses Warp and/or phasers every time as well. Guess the Dominion at that time had weapons and shields that worked well, but needed to adjust their targeting sensors, hehe.

    Anyway, as to the ships in question:

    I believe the Gal X should get a bump in turn rate, to something just shy of the Klingon Battlecruisers. There's no reason the devs cannot do that. That would make both its lance and the ability to mount dual cannons more useful. And from the sounds of it, the Lance could use a little love, as it apparently misses often? And its recharge could be a bit lower as well.

    And as to the Guramba, it is currently also less effective than its counterpart, the T5 Raptor. It is close to being balanced though.

    In my opinion, the Javelin needs a shorter firing time, currently it costs you DPS. I also believe that an escort/raptor type ship, without the ability to stack the defenses of a cruiser, needs to be able to do DPS, which means make effective use of limited firing arc weapons. For that reason, I'd like to see Siege Mode reduce turn rate less than it does, but to maintain the siege feel, snare the ship a bit, slowing it down. Possibly with a bit of a resist buff to compensate for defense lost due to lower speed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    I actually wasn't saying they should all have battle cloak, more that for game considerations no one has it except the bop does to offset its frailty.

    And my point about the Odyssey wasn't that it should have survived longer or anything against weapons that penetrate its shields, but that they should still have been able to destroy the attackers more quickly given the frailty of attack ships.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Rokesmith wrote: »
    And my point about the Odyssey wasn't that it should have survived longer or anything against weapons that penetrate its shields, but that they should still have been able to destroy the attackers more quickly given the frailty of attack ships.

    Except their weapons weren't that effective against Dominion shields just yet. Yeah, plot armor, basically, but was the reasoning they gave for it :)

    That said, it is still one of my favorite fights from the TNG/DS9/V'ger era, just because ships weren't disabled or blown up instantly, but could actually take a bit of a pounding.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    One big thing to consider is that in the films and shows they always have the option to simply leave, to not fight. Hence they just warp out or cloak. In a video game the option to just not fight is severely curtailed for reasons of fun and balance. Imagine how annoying PvP would be if a crippled ship could just warp out instantly and be safe.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Rokesmith wrote: »
    One big thing to consider is that in the films and shows they always have the option to simply leave, to not fight. Hence they just warp out or cloak. In a video game the option to just not fight is severely curtailed for reasons of fun and balance. Imagine how annoying PvP would be if a crippled ship could just warp out instantly and be safe.

    Who cares? Speaking ONLY for myself, I waited a VERY long time for a Star Trek game.
    I am all too happy to pay for it too, all I ask is, get it right which is to say, get it like the damn show!
    (yes, I know, there are limits of a game)

    This game coming out more than likely negated any chance of any other (pre jj abrams butchered Trek)
    Star Trek game so I think they have a duty and an obligation to get it right. I do not want to play a crptic interpretation of Star Trek but rather a game based (and not sooo damned loosely) on the show with
    alteration only where needed.

    They made alterations EVERYWHERE and 90% of them were not needed and certainly not for balance.
    If balance was all they were after, they could have introduced ships/tech for the klingons never before seen in Star Trek and it would nether be canon or wrong. This would have allowed them to create the Federation faction as it was, not as they did. ( a few more alterations and this game will be more like
    a parody of Star Trek than anything else)

    Sometimes you CAN have your cake and EAT it too.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Axterix wrote:
    Except their weapons weren't that effective against Dominion shields just yet. Yeah, plot armor, basically, but was the reasoning they gave for it :)

    That said, it is still one of my favorite fights from the TNG/DS9/V'ger era, just because ships weren't disabled or blown up instantly, but could actually take a bit of a pounding.

    It is a decent fight, though there is no mention of their weapons being less effective, just their shields. (I just watched that scene cause I couldn't remember exactly what they said) The captain of the Odyssey even transferred all the power from shields to the weapons, and yet they didn't destroy a single attack ship.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Also, taking up the issue of the less than spectacular damage output of the Dreadnought consider this. The AGT D existed in the year 2395, fourteen years before the game takes place. Now obviously that particular version of the ship never existed, but the same kind of tech was developed independently by Starfleet. It is logical to assume it was roughly at the same time. Don't you think that in more than 10 years the Klingons and everyone else would have developed some way of better surviving such hits? Remember, just because we are still given Inrepid, Defiant, and Galaxy class vessels to use that doesn't mean they are anything like the original models built by the Federation, the tech has undoubtedly improved quite a bit, hence the modular setup of our ships in game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Just fine. So long as we can fire the Gal-X's gun somewhat faster (Tricobalt cooldown), and can turn it at least as well as an Assault Cruiser (More spots to put RCS thrusters, advanced tech to do it with)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Rokesmith wrote: »
    Also, taking up the issue of the less than spectacular damage output of the Dreadnought consider this. The AGT D existed in the year 2395, fourteen years before the game takes place. Now obviously that particular version of the ship never existed, but the same kind of tech was developed independently by Starfleet. It is logical to assume it was roughly at the same time. Don't you think that in more than 10 years the Klingons and everyone else would have developed some way of better surviving such hits? Remember, just because we are still given Inrepid, Defiant, and Galaxy class vessels to use that doesn't mean they are anything like the original models built by the Federation, the tech has undoubtedly improved quite a bit, hence the modular setup of our ships in game.

    Yes, both that spinal weapon and the klingons shields would/should have improved.

    As it stands, that spinal lance is more like a type I hand phaser. On stun.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    I do think the GalX needs some tweaking as a Tier 5 ship, as mentioned a bit better turn-rate and reduced cd for the lance. I don't think it's damage should be improved however. It is still has about the highest damage potential of any weapon in the game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Rokesmith wrote: »
    I do think the GalX needs some tweaking as a Tier 5 ship, as mentioned a bit better turn-rate and reduced cd for the lance. I don't think it's damage should be improved however. It is still has about the highest damage potential of any weapon in the game.

    "Potential"


    I've hit NPC ships with ZERO shields and did less damage than if I got out and pounded on their hull
    with a sledge hammer. I am running the numbers but my preliminary findings suggest several harsh words
    spoken by my Klingon BOFF actually have a higher DPS but he had a cold last time so the numbers don't add up right now.

    I use that spinal lance hardly ever.....and only if I remember, only if I'm not too lazy to press the key bind and only if I think it will do more than make a burn mark on his hull.
Sign In or Register to comment.