One thing I have not got used to in this game is auto targeting on ground battles. So why not rid the game of it? Not just pvp but all ground battles. Star Trek TV is full of exciting ground battles. Duck and fire. It could add a hole new adventure:) Also it could level the playing field a bit. No longer in PVP the player with the best weapon will have a advantage. A more skilled and stealth player with a weak weapon could defeat him.
So, what, like an FPS? There are no words in the English language strong enough to accurately convey the negative sentiment I am feeling toward your suggestion.
One thing I have not got used to in this game is auto targeting on ground battles. So why not rid the game of it? Not just pvp but all ground battles. Star Trek TV is full of exciting ground battles. Duck and fire. It could add a hole new adventure:) Also it could level the playing field a bit. No longer in PVP the player with the best weapon will have a advantage. A more skilled and stealth player with a weak weapon could defeat him.
Turning it off would turn STO into an FPS/TPS which would not go over well. One thing about MMOs is that they tend to be more accessable to the physically handicapped due to the aiming/combat methods. Most don't do that and are damned hard for them to play. The current combat system is pretty egalitarian and allows access to people that can't manage an FPS/TPS.
Besides, the entire combat system would have to be revamped to handle that combat method. They are revamping it now but I don't think that is how they are doing it. It may be possible that they do something like what was done with SWG where there was more damage from being out of autotarget with far more frequent misses but that didn't work terribly well there either.
My understanding is that the new option to turn autoaim off will be similar to what Champs uses where the game will decide the "best" target based on your facing and may allow you to shoot without a target if there's nothing close to being in the center of your view. I understand that can be fun for PvP and is a pretty good compromise between true FPS and having to mash tab.
it would be fun if the game used a fps/tps combat system for ground. its what I thought ground combat was going to be like back in beta. Sadly that wasn't the case and still isn't or anything remotely close. they say is going to be fixed though. How so I cant say, but you combine cryptics round about way of doing things and trekkies hatred of anything new and irrational fear of change and well things dont bode well for the update.
either way they are making changes to it. Im guessing/hoping it will fall more inline with champions that game can be switched between a tab system and a quasi fps/tps. no you cant miss by being to ahead or behind the targert but you pick your target by rolling your mouse over the guy you want to shoot. also you can switch between ftps and tps by just zooming in farther.
The other thing is theres more they have to do then just fix the targeting to make it more like the shows and movies they have to take nerfs small arms contract away so our ground weapons will bring down targets in under a mellennia. They also have to fix the ais so they dont just stand there out in the open or walk up to you and shoot you in the face hoping to put your eye out with a critical.
I think mostly they need to work on the ais and controls though the pacing of combat is more a tweak thing up the damage or lower the cool down type thing. I wasn't around in alpha but I from what I understand what they were going for was much more in line with tps style game, it was just that people didn't like that so it was made into what we have now. I do see that with the current controls and poor ai and just faster combat the ground combat would have rendered the kits and bo ability's just about useless unless you set them up in advance. it will take a lot more work to get it all working well together and seamlessly so you could do it on the move. Games like global agenda make it work tabula rasa for all its many faults had a really great combat system I'd say one of the best I've seen in an mmo.
The bos I think is what makes it the hardest to get right. ais in mmos are rather simplistic for the most part and are not really setup to fight each other well so you have to micro manage them the devs need to make them more independent in combat so that you have more time to keep yourself alive and in the fight rather then cursing the screen and having to tell your bo to not setup a wall right in front your turret or setup some mines 20 feet behind you rather between you and your enemies.
I'd also really like to see smarter mob ais that come at you from a lot farther out. the whole I can see you and you can see me but I've not crossed the magical aggro range circle so the mobs will just stand there forever is just silly. I'd really like to see mobs do something when you got into visual range or them like take over and setup defences maybe rush you. It would be great if they had some tactics they could use something as simple as falling back or or taking cover would be great to see in the middle of combat.
There are tons of anti-twitch people on these boards simply because they couldn't at all handle it and refused to adapt despite the clearly better gameplay. Especially with the amount of older players this game seems to have. No offense to those older players but they more often won't be able to handle systems that require any amount of physical speed, aiming or anything like that.
Ideally I think a hybrid could work. There are certainly better options than the ground combat we currently have which isn't terrible, it's just not that great. :P
Sorry Parallax, I AM indeed offended. I play all kinds of FPSs, and have no problem keeping up.
I don't want a more FPS experience in STO, though. I particularly enjoy watching my character shoot his weapon over his shoulder when the auto-targeted enemy is to the rear, and LOL when he throws a grenade over his head and behind.
If you do away with auto-targeting you are going to have to introduce more junk to hide behind, and the ability to crawl, and peep over/to the side. You are also going to have to completely rework the weapons selection and firing system - which could be either good or bad.
And I'm pretty sure that whatever it is they have on the drawing board, I will be able to adapt to it. We old folks ain't dead, yet.
One thing I have not got used to in this game is auto targeting on ground battles. So why not rid the game of it? Not just pvp but all ground battles. Star Trek TV is full of exciting ground battles. Duck and fire. It could add a hole new adventure:) Also it could level the playing field a bit. No longer in PVP the player with the best weapon will have a advantage. A more skilled and stealth player with a weak weapon could defeat him.
No, thank you. It would turn ground combat into a FPS-alike.
Guess what? A FPS-alike MMO failed. Servers shut down and everything. Go see Tabula Rasa for what happens to MMOFPS.
My understanding is that the new option to turn autoaim off will be similar to what Champs uses where the game will decide the "best" target based on your facing and may allow you to shoot without a target if there's nothing close to being in the center of your view. I understand that can be fun for PvP and is a pretty good compromise between true FPS and having to mash tab.
Yup, all the info from the devs about the ground revamp say the same thing. There will be an OPTION to manually aim and fire. While this is concerning, i'm not ready to jump onto the panic OMG FPS bandwagon. Until I see how it works.
But im with most folks who feel FPS's really don't mix well with MMO's
Yup, all the info from the devs about the ground revamp say the same thing. There will be an OPTION to manually aim and fire. While this is concerning, i'm not ready to jump onto the panic OMG FPS bandwagon. Until I see how it works.
But im with most folks who feel FPS's really don't mix well with MMO's
Unless they make enemies take vastly fewer shots to down than currently, I can only imagine the FPS-like option making combat more tedious, not less.
I'd love a true FPS experience in this game, preferably third-person over-the-shoulder, like Gears of War, but less dependent on cover to, y'know, not die. Something like Halo with a GoW-esque cover system would be awesome, I think.
The problem is to make it not suck would require a complete and total overhaul of every mission ever. Less mobs, less hits to kill a mob to make up for lack of auto-hit, better cover mechanic, etc...
That said, I dare not force my view upon anyone, and will gladly settle with that system Cryptic is developing. FPS is simply the best fit for gun-based ground combat, IMO.
Yup, all the info from the devs about the ground revamp say the same thing. There will be an OPTION to manually aim and fire. While this is concerning, i'm not ready to jump onto the panic OMG FPS bandwagon. Until I see how it works.
But im with most folks who feel FPS's really don't mix well with MMO's
First I have no clue what FPS is. Im old I suppose. Look I grew up playing mulie player shooting games like Elite Force and EF 2. As well as Half Life. STO on ground seems to easy click on target then fire until dead Not saying the missions are easy! They are not. Infact ground is my weakest.
First I have no clue what FPS is. Im old I suppose. Look I grew up playing mulie player shooting games like Elite Force and EF 2. As well as Half Life. STO on ground seems to easy click on target then fire until dead Not saying the missions are easy! They are not. Infact ground is my weakest.
FPS = First Person Shooter. If you've played Half Life, you've played an FPS.
Or Check out World War Two Online or Planetside for some from around 2001 that are still operating.
Lovely odds there. A MMOFPS already failed. Very very few MMOs have failed to the point of shutting down. Turning this game into a MMOFPS will cost STO a not insignificant fraction of its' playerbase; not everyone but enough to hurt. Will turning it into a MMOFPS cause enough new players to subscribe to cover the lost players and actually increase the number of players? Maybe yes, maybe no. Is it worth the risk? I say no.
Adding combat options to ground combat that let it be more FPS like? I believe they are doing something like that already. Making said FPS like options superior to non-FPS like options? No, bad idea. Taking away the non-FPS like options? Over my dead subscription. If I wanted to play a FPS I'd play an actual FPS game.
Lovely odds there. A MMOFPS already failed. Very very few MMOs have failed to the point of shutting down. Turning this game into a MMOFPS will cost STO a not insignificant fraction of its' playerbase; not everyone but enough to hurt. Will turning it into a MMOFPS cause enough new players to subscribe to cover the lost players and actually increase the number of players? Maybe yes, maybe no. Is it worth the risk? I say no.
Adding combat options to ground combat that let it be more FPS like? I believe they are doing something like that already. Making said FPS like options superior to non-FPS like options? No, bad idea. Taking away the non-FPS like options? Over my dead subscription. If I wanted to play a FPS I'd play an actual FPS game.
like champions, STO has already failed. It will survive longer than Champions by virtue of its license and the fact it farms the few remaining players to the point of absurdity by making them double pay a subscription and for any good content via the C-store. One MMOFPS failed, all the others are still around, and much older than it. MMORPGs can an do fail and vanish from the net, I don't know what you are on. Play The Matrix Online, or Earth & Beyond lately?
I do wish these threads would go away, every month or so a new one crops up trying to force the entire game into their particular mold of what a game should be. I have been playing FPS since DOOM and I still play CS, CS:S, COD, L4D etc ...
There is absolutely no need to change STO into an FPS, if you want an FPS, go play CS or something.
Hell, why not just turn STO into a full on flight sim requiring a HOTAS rig and TrackIR. I can play that game right now, but most can't. I would also like to know what you would intend on doing with those players that do not have full muscle control, palsy, MS, or any other physically limiting disability? Planning on throwing them under the bus?
Modify the existing combat system sure, but leave it as accessable as possible to the broadest possible group without dumbing it down.
I wanna dual wield full auto cannons and have the last standing perk WITH martyrdom. WITH the ability to qs my sniper rifle and 1 hit kill an enemy. I also support star trek noob tube. NO DUAL NOOB TUBES!
while i admit going full fps with cs style combat speed would most likely not be the best decision for sto I dont think that folks with limited motor skills being left out would factor much into it. Space combat is much more complex then an fps ever could be im talking even fiddlying with all the buttons and TRIBBLE on like crysis.
my engineer which is my most macro intensive toon still manages to need 17 different buttons not counting the wasd and mouse+plus its 5 buttons, and that's in combat not just dicking around in sector space. Even if you went full clicky with the mouse and opened up all 3 console rows youd still need to wasd to maintain your firing arc and hammer the space bar.
overall I'm really hoping they not only add the quasi fps options but also find a way to automate a lot of the micro management of ground combat by smartening up the bos. even in space it would be nice if they made some of the really mundane stuff like redistribute shields automatic. Youd think after a while whoevers face that button I keep mashing represents would figure out I dont want my shields with holes in them and do it on their own.
I like auto-aim, auto firing caused me tons of trouble until I learned to turn it off and every now and then it still just shoots like it has a mind of it's own. So dumb.
Comments
Turning it off would turn STO into an FPS/TPS which would not go over well. One thing about MMOs is that they tend to be more accessable to the physically handicapped due to the aiming/combat methods. Most don't do that and are damned hard for them to play. The current combat system is pretty egalitarian and allows access to people that can't manage an FPS/TPS.
Besides, the entire combat system would have to be revamped to handle that combat method. They are revamping it now but I don't think that is how they are doing it. It may be possible that they do something like what was done with SWG where there was more damage from being out of autotarget with far more frequent misses but that didn't work terribly well there either.
either way they are making changes to it. Im guessing/hoping it will fall more inline with champions that game can be switched between a tab system and a quasi fps/tps. no you cant miss by being to ahead or behind the targert but you pick your target by rolling your mouse over the guy you want to shoot. also you can switch between ftps and tps by just zooming in farther.
The other thing is theres more they have to do then just fix the targeting to make it more like the shows and movies they have to take nerfs small arms contract away so our ground weapons will bring down targets in under a mellennia. They also have to fix the ais so they dont just stand there out in the open or walk up to you and shoot you in the face hoping to put your eye out with a critical.
I think mostly they need to work on the ais and controls though the pacing of combat is more a tweak thing up the damage or lower the cool down type thing. I wasn't around in alpha but I from what I understand what they were going for was much more in line with tps style game, it was just that people didn't like that so it was made into what we have now. I do see that with the current controls and poor ai and just faster combat the ground combat would have rendered the kits and bo ability's just about useless unless you set them up in advance. it will take a lot more work to get it all working well together and seamlessly so you could do it on the move. Games like global agenda make it work tabula rasa for all its many faults had a really great combat system I'd say one of the best I've seen in an mmo.
The bos I think is what makes it the hardest to get right. ais in mmos are rather simplistic for the most part and are not really setup to fight each other well so you have to micro manage them the devs need to make them more independent in combat so that you have more time to keep yourself alive and in the fight rather then cursing the screen and having to tell your bo to not setup a wall right in front your turret or setup some mines 20 feet behind you rather between you and your enemies.
I'd also really like to see smarter mob ais that come at you from a lot farther out. the whole I can see you and you can see me but I've not crossed the magical aggro range circle so the mobs will just stand there forever is just silly. I'd really like to see mobs do something when you got into visual range or them like take over and setup defences maybe rush you. It would be great if they had some tactics they could use something as simple as falling back or or taking cover would be great to see in the middle of combat.
Ideally I think a hybrid could work. There are certainly better options than the ground combat we currently have which isn't terrible, it's just not that great. :P
I don't want a more FPS experience in STO, though. I particularly enjoy watching my character shoot his weapon over his shoulder when the auto-targeted enemy is to the rear, and LOL when he throws a grenade over his head and behind.
If you do away with auto-targeting you are going to have to introduce more junk to hide behind, and the ability to crawl, and peep over/to the side. You are also going to have to completely rework the weapons selection and firing system - which could be either good or bad.
And I'm pretty sure that whatever it is they have on the drawing board, I will be able to adapt to it. We old folks ain't dead, yet.
No, thank you. It would turn ground combat into a FPS-alike.
Guess what? A FPS-alike MMO failed. Servers shut down and everything. Go see Tabula Rasa for what happens to MMOFPS.
Yup, all the info from the devs about the ground revamp say the same thing. There will be an OPTION to manually aim and fire. While this is concerning, i'm not ready to jump onto the panic OMG FPS bandwagon. Until I see how it works.
But im with most folks who feel FPS's really don't mix well with MMO's
Unless they make enemies take vastly fewer shots to down than currently, I can only imagine the FPS-like option making combat more tedious, not less.
The problem is to make it not suck would require a complete and total overhaul of every mission ever. Less mobs, less hits to kill a mob to make up for lack of auto-hit, better cover mechanic, etc...
That said, I dare not force my view upon anyone, and will gladly settle with that system Cryptic is developing. FPS is simply the best fit for gun-based ground combat, IMO.
First I have no clue what FPS is. Im old I suppose. Look I grew up playing mulie player shooting games like Elite Force and EF 2. As well as Half Life. STO on ground seems to easy click on target then fire until dead Not saying the missions are easy! They are not. Infact ground is my weakest.
FPS = First Person Shooter. If you've played Half Life, you've played an FPS.
Or Check out World War Two Online or Planetside for some from around 2001 that are still operating.
Lovely odds there. A MMOFPS already failed. Very very few MMOs have failed to the point of shutting down. Turning this game into a MMOFPS will cost STO a not insignificant fraction of its' playerbase; not everyone but enough to hurt. Will turning it into a MMOFPS cause enough new players to subscribe to cover the lost players and actually increase the number of players? Maybe yes, maybe no. Is it worth the risk? I say no.
Adding combat options to ground combat that let it be more FPS like? I believe they are doing something like that already. Making said FPS like options superior to non-FPS like options? No, bad idea. Taking away the non-FPS like options? Over my dead subscription. If I wanted to play a FPS I'd play an actual FPS game.
like champions, STO has already failed. It will survive longer than Champions by virtue of its license and the fact it farms the few remaining players to the point of absurdity by making them double pay a subscription and for any good content via the C-store. One MMOFPS failed, all the others are still around, and much older than it. MMORPGs can an do fail and vanish from the net, I don't know what you are on. Play The Matrix Online, or Earth & Beyond lately?
There is absolutely no need to change STO into an FPS, if you want an FPS, go play CS or something.
Hell, why not just turn STO into a full on flight sim requiring a HOTAS rig and TrackIR. I can play that game right now, but most can't. I would also like to know what you would intend on doing with those players that do not have full muscle control, palsy, MS, or any other physically limiting disability? Planning on throwing them under the bus?
Modify the existing combat system sure, but leave it as accessable as possible to the broadest possible group without dumbing it down.
my engineer which is my most macro intensive toon still manages to need 17 different buttons not counting the wasd and mouse+plus its 5 buttons, and that's in combat not just dicking around in sector space. Even if you went full clicky with the mouse and opened up all 3 console rows youd still need to wasd to maintain your firing arc and hammer the space bar.
overall I'm really hoping they not only add the quasi fps options but also find a way to automate a lot of the micro management of ground combat by smartening up the bos. even in space it would be nice if they made some of the really mundane stuff like redistribute shields automatic. Youd think after a while whoevers face that button I keep mashing represents would figure out I dont want my shields with holes in them and do it on their own.