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Plot devices and RL

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I've often imagined the STOS and the others that followed to be one of a kind heroic adventures. Otherwise, for the number of times the Prime Directive had been violated or the number of time the Enterprise had been 'overtaken' or the Holodeck or Data had run amok, someone in authority should have; 1)recalled Kirk, 2) rethought the 5 year missions, 3) revamped ship security, 4) turned Data off and dismantled the Holodeck for security reasons.
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    it's what comic fans call PIS, or "Plot Induced Stupidity". It means being unrealistic for the sake of the story, and happens more often than it really should.

    it sucks, but its necessary at times, i think.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    pr1983 wrote: »
    it's what comic fans call PIS, or "Plot Induced Stupidity". It means being unrealistic for the sake of the story, and happens more often than it really should.

    it sucks, but its necessary at times, i think.

    It is necessary at times, though sometimes its used in lieu of writing something that makes sense. This isn't just a Trek thing.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    shizaru wrote:
    It is necessary at times, though sometimes its used in lieu of writing something that makes sense. This isn't just a Trek thing.

    oh, i agree whole-heartedly. i never understood why it was so hard for people to write a decent, engaging story that didn't need to make you question the plot holes at the same time.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    pr1983 wrote: »
    oh, i agree whole-heartedly. i never understood why it was so hard for people to write a decent, engaging story that didn't need to make you question the plot holes at the same time.

    Probably bcause they imagine the audience is full of morons. Or they'll just accept anything. It usually depends on the plot hole or the actual circumstance in the show. I watched the final season of 24 this week and I muttered to myself "After all of the other times this has happened (every season) how can CTU...an organization committed to fighting terrorists and national security threats...have yet ANOTHER SPY IN THIER MIDST. Really? I mean, you'd think they'd have gotten better at vetting their employees.

    Heck, in Trek, am I supposed to believe that Picard and Crusher were the ONLY officers available for the secret commando mission in "Chain of Command"? (Worf, I can buy...but really...Picard and Crusher?) I'd think the writers should have brainstormed a better and more plausible reason for getting Picard into the plot than that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    lol, agreed for the most part, though not the chain of command part, simply because its one of my favourite episodes of TNG.

    i do see why it's used so often, though; you;re right; too many stupid people, or too many people willing to accept stupidity. itys the minority that suffers.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    pr1983 wrote: »
    lol, agreed for the most part, though not the chain of command part, simply because its one of my favourite episodes of TNG.

    i do see why it's used so often, though; you;re right; too many stupid people, or too many people willing to accept stupidity. itys the minority that suffers.

    I, too, enjoyed Chain of command...I just think there should have been a better way to get the main part of the plot...Picard's capture...achieved.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    shizaru wrote:
    I, too, enjoyed Chain of command...I just think there should have been a better way to get the main part of the plot...Picard's capture...achieved.

    maybe. any ideas?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Wouldn't have been too hard, actually. They've already bothered to give each member of the team a minimum of reason for why they've been chosen, but they should have backed it up with something more solid - Worf and Crusher were essentially only there because they were on the Enterprise as well, only Picard had previous experience that made his presence seem mandatory. And yet this experience was so general that the audience is left to wonder why he'd be the only one in Starfleet knowing about "theta waves".

    They should have come up with some more specific things, like Picard's archaeological past making him acquainted with the caverns, and Crusher having written some papers about metagenic weapons. Worf is practically the only viable member of the away team solely based on his physical status. In addition to that, they should have given them a couple experienced redshirts from Starfleet Security as escorts to be either killed on the spot or captured and executed - possibly adding even more drama to Picard's interrogation.

    Oh well. Still, it was a good episode.

    PS:

    THERE

    ARE

    ...

    FOUR

    LIGHTS!

    :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Valias wrote:
    Wouldn't have been too hard, actually. They've already bothered to give each member of the team a minimum of reason for why they've been chosen, but they should have backed it up with something more solid - Worf and Crusher were essentially only there because they were on the Enterprise as well, only Picard had previous experience that made his presence seem mandatory. And yet this experience was so general that the audience is left to wonder why he'd be the only one in Starfleet knowing about "theta waves".

    They should have come up with some more specific things, like Picard's archaeological past making him acquainted with the caverns, and Crusher having written some papers about metagenic weapons. Worf is practically the only viable member of the away team solely based on his physical status. In addition to that, they should have given them a couple experienced redshirts from Starfleet Security as escorts to be either killed on the spot or captured and executed - possibly adding even more drama to Picard's interrogation.

    Oh well. Still, it was a good episode.

    PS:

    THERE

    ARE

    ...

    FOUR

    LIGHTS!

    :D

    Exactly. It would have been a tiny bit contrived with Crusher I think, but it would have made sense in a TV kinda way. But if they had done as you suggested I doubt anyone would wonder why the captain of the Federation's Flagship was on a commando raid.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    shizaru wrote:
    Probably bcause they imagine the audience is full of morons. Or they'll just accept anything. It usually depends on the plot hole or the actual circumstance in the show. I watched the final season of 24 this week and I muttered to myself "After all of the other times this has happened (every season) how can CTU...an organization committed to fighting terrorists and national security threats...have yet ANOTHER SPY IN THIER MIDST. Really? I mean, you'd think they'd have gotten better at vetting their employees.
    I'm sure this is true for certain writers, but i think for others, it's either:
    A.) They didn't realize there was a simpler solution until it was too late. Imagine you've been writing this episode for a few days and show it to someone, and they go "Well why didn't they just beam the away team up from the planet?" and then you're stuck going "Damn, kinda ruins my plot." this is why the transporters are disabled in practically every episode, they absolutely destroy plot development because any time anyone gets in trouble they can just be called away instantly. On the other hand, they've already written this much story and it'd be a shame to throw it away now, so you end up with weak excuses like "I can't get a signal!" that handwave away the easy answer, or just ignore and hope that the audience, like the writer, won't realize the simple solution because they'll be too involved in the story.
    B.) they realize there's something unrealistic about it and how it wouldn't stand up in the real world, but the storytelling opportunities are so good. Never let reality stand in the way of a good story, after all. This is something most easily leveled at dystopian stories because most dystopian governments wouldn't last 5 years in a realistic setting, but it's a useful setup for examining social issues so it lives on regardless.

    sometimes you do get those just bang-your-head-on-the-wall bad moments (like that 24 example. Last season was especially bad with that, getting a NUKE into their secret base.) but I think for the most part, it falls into some of those other two categories. Especially as far as Sci fi is concerned, I don't think the author assumes their audience is made up of idiots.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Terral wrote:
    this is why the transporters are disabled in practically every episode, they absolutely destroy plot development because any time anyone gets in trouble they can just be called away instantly.
    Prime example of what I've grown to call "Star Trek Pandora's Box" syndrome. Transporters and replicators and holograms all sound like cool ideas, but the writers have done so much silly stuff with them that they've dug their own grave for believability. That's why Voyager basically resulted in every episode being like "let's see how the deflector dish will save the ship this week". It was most prominent in VOY, but this too was merely the result of every show that came before it. And don't even get me started on time travel.

    Trek could've used some early stoppers for its technology. For all the moments we were captivated by its wonders, we later paid by problems getting solved by technobabble instead of by the hands of the characters.

    Enterprise took a step away from that by making transporters dangerous, having no holograms at all and using "protein re-sequencers" instead of true replicators. Some issues were still solved by technobabble, but by and large the episodes always depended on the crew getting their own hands dirty. And that's how it should be.
    Of course, ENT f..ked up in another area of its writing, namely the entire horrid time travel story arc - but that's a topic for another thread.
    Terral wrote:
    Especially as far as Sci fi is concerned, I don't think the author assumes their audience is made up of idiots.
    I still think the authors differ largely in the perception of who they write for, though. Some writers like very elaborate story arcs with shocking twists or moral issues, others prefer interpersonal drama, and yet others focus on the action. And I think it is quite possible for some writers to see the story merely as a "means to an end" instead of the core of whatever they're working on. They want to show pretty pictures and epic battle scenes, and the writing only serves as a vessel to get there, a framework to build the visuals around.

    Yes, you probably guessed it, I'm referring to JJtrek.
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