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Dec 22st STF Stealth Nerf

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
I have noticed that the STFs got a steatlh nerf in today's patch and it's extremely frustrating, not only has the STFs gotten worse, but there are bugs too.

All in all, the STFs need to be redone again, where they are more player friendly and encourage "fun" than "Frustration". If it wasn't for the new Borg drops, the STFs would be almost completely empty.

So this is something you need to think about.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    I did Infected last night and didn't have any of these issues. Actually it went super smooth and was our second quickest run.

    The time before that though we had a bug that prevented the final boss from triggering.

    Just depends on the instance I guess.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Mavairo wrote:
    I did Infected last night and didn't have any of these issues. Actually it went super smooth and was our second quickest run.

    The time before that though we had a bug that prevented the final boss from triggering.

    Just depends on the instance I guess.

    I also ran it last night. Wasn't the server going down? Probably a patch? I haven't played since
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Azurian wrote: »
    Honestly, the STFs are getting worse than being fixed for the better. After I get my Borg Gear, I really am not going to bother with the STFs ever again.


    The stealth skill if thats what your talking about ? have always been a joke in this game, all mobs when under 5 m will see you no matter what when using the skill.Atleast the last time i tried the skill while lvl up a tactical.

    Yeah most of the players never bother doing them with all the bugs and the fact its so hard to get a group to do them. The STF missions are the biggest fail on end game content this game has, and thats just not me saying that, other web sites who judge MMO's have said this to.STO have no raids no end game content and only 1 PvP map with "objectives".Thats sad.And i dont belive they will improve on the missions.They will still be the same borring grindfest that is no fun in any way. This is why my first two fleets died after the first two month of the game.In the end it was only me on vent because i was stupid enough to buy a lifetime subscription, and here i am whining on the forums with nothing to do ingame.But not for long ;)
    Trust me, when they finally realease the Hive in a year its gonna be the same thing.

    BTW if the gaming industry ever make a award for the worst mission ever the Cure will always get the n1 price :rolleyes: I love how Cryptic only makes endgame content for 5% of the player base while the rest of the players have nothing to do.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Honestly the STFs are still infinitely more fun than Big Fail.. I mean big dig. And Crystaline Entity.

    They are also far from the worst levels I've ever played in videogames. Actually Infected is alot of fun once you know how to do it. It's still somewhat a challenge and people have to be coordinated. But we love Infected.

    Now Cure? Cure is like pulling teeth.

    Terradome is fun too again, once you know what you're supposed to be doing.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    I did all three STF's today... had no troubles at all.. nice and smooth... you must be doing something wrong...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Mavairo wrote:
    I did Infected last night and didn't have any of these issues. Actually it went super smooth and was our second quickest run.

    The time before that though we had a bug that prevented the final boss from triggering.

    Just depends on the instance I guess.

    There was a patch today that tweeked the STFs Borg Loot rewards.

    Still managed to get 2 Borg Drops even after today's patch. :p
    tyyy wrote: »
    The stealth skill if thats what your talking about ? have always been a joke in this game, all mobs when under 5 m will see you no matter what when using the skill.Atleast the last time i tried the skill while lvl up a tactical.

    Yeah most of the players never bother doing them with all the bugs and the fact its so hard to get a group to do them. The STF missions are the biggest fail on end game content this game has, and thats just not me saying that, other web sites who judge MMO's have said this to.STO have no raids no end game content and only 1 PvP map with "objectives".Thats sad.And i dont belive they will improve on the missions.They will still be the same borring grindfest that is no fun in any way. This is why my first two fleets died after the first two month of the game.In the end it was only me on vent because i was stupid enough to buy a lifetime subscription, and here i am whining on the forums with nothing to do ingame.But not for long ;)
    Trust me, when they finally realease the Hive in a year its gonna be the same thing.

    BTW if the gaming industry ever make a award for the worst mission ever the Cure will always get the n1 price :rolleyes: I love how Cryptic only makes endgame content for 5% of the player base while the rest of the players have nothing to do.

    No, not Stealth Skill via Tactical, but undocumented changes. But yes Stealth is worthless outside of PvP and the Ice Mine FA.

    STFs were good when introduced, where people strived for Valor Gear for an easier time against the Borg. But when Mk XI came around, it wasn't as such. Now the STFs is worthless outside of Borg Drops and Accolades. Guaranteed in a month when people got their gear, Gamma Orionis is going to be empty again. Which shows what you mentioned, that there is really no end game and really no replayability.

    With the new crafting, you can sit in Exploration space, get the Anomolies, and all your crew and even your other ships in full MkXI gear.
    Mavairo wrote:
    Honestly the STFs are still infinitely more fun than Big Fail.. I mean big dig. And Crystaline Entity.

    They are also far from the worst levels I've ever played in videogames. Actually Infected is alot of fun once you know how to do it. It's still somewhat a challenge and people have to be coordinated. But we love Infected.

    Now Cure? Cure is like pulling teeth.

    Terradome is fun too again, once you know what you're supposed to be doing.

    Yes, STFs are "fun" as a type of raiding dungeon, but really it loses it's appeal after the first or second time. Like I said above, after people get their gear and accolades, Gamma Orionis is going to be a desert again.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    its fun for me. ive been helping random people with the cure and infected all day long. oh its great to be a science officer.

    also i love the infected. LOVE.

    cure is meh u need a perfect team *imo* so ill just post this

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq6OY4Kt-_g
    Hitchhiker's Guide To Star Trek Online: "The Cure" - http://www.sanct-guild.com/

    i made tons of new friends and am quite happy.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    You do realize that a "nerf" is when things get weaker...right?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    I also noticed that after the patch, Onyxia is deep breathing more than she used to.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Dahm_bomb wrote: »
    You do realize that a "nerf" is when things get weaker...right?

    And that I always tell you when I change anything on these missions ?


    pppffffftttt..... "Steath Nerf"..... there is nothing stealthy about me :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Azurian wrote: »
    I have noticed that the STFs got a steatlh nerf in today's patch and it's extremely frustrating, not only has the STFs gotten worse, but there are bugs too.

    The Borg are running around and spamming effects.

    The borg have ALWAYS spammed their holds.

    For me, combat with the borg goes like this:

    Held

    Motion accelerator

    Held

    Held

    Held (With a countdown timer that refills itself with no borg around me to replenish the hold)

    Fire my gun

    Held

    Held

    Held

    Motion Accelerator

    Held

    ad nauseum.

    If it weren't for my bridge crew and the motion accelerator, I'd never survive an encounter on an inside map.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Azurian wrote: »
    Captain Ogen double respawns groups.

    I have played Infected today about four times never see this bug/effect.
    Azurian wrote: »
    Infected Part 3 now has a wandering group to prevent people running. Which makes it harder, but still allow players to do.

    On KDF side was ever on extra patrol behind Captain Ogen, if Fed side get them now too, then is the mission for both side even :>
    Azurian wrote: »
    Infected's Boss room has instantaneous respawning when doing consoles, making it even harder to fight the Boss.

    Its a very long time ago that i have see this bug, but not in the last days, i would say the average respawn per group is by 3 min, enought time to clean the room, use consoles, destroye the generator and start fighting Rebecca.
    Azurian wrote: »
    Infected's Boss consoles no longer have sound effects.

    I dont now if anything has changed but if i stay self on the console and aktivate it i hear sound, but i think only from my one not from the other two.
    Azurian wrote: »
    And that's just infected, the cure is even worse, not to mention Khitomer's annoying first part in which is Escort dependant.

    Played at least cure two times today and KA one time i dont see any changes

    The only bug i see in all STF are some Borg grps of speed wo running as hell faster as player ever can run and impossible to avoid get assimilatet from two or more borgs wich cause death in near 3 seconds. This Problem i notice by many of the not node bound patrol.

    Gozer, it is possible that u can take a look at the patrols and bring them back in line with "normal" Borgs and not Borgs of speed drugs :>
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    ran infected and then cure, the extra patrol between mini-boss and queen was only on the KDF side and on KDF side the resp was not outside queen room but in mini-boss room so gotta clear the path so same as XYR said. No problems in either instance other than player created altho in past have had problems with beam out/in because of VA/RA instances, but now that isn't a problem, or at least wasn't today. Infected Queen room on KDF side is glitched by not having console sounds which is so easy to overcome, the most basic way is to have each person simply type"R" when ready.. 3rd R you enter sequence.. no brainer.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    The borg have ALWAYS spammed their holds.

    For me, combat with the borg goes like this:

    Held

    Motion accelerator

    Held

    Held

    Held (With a countdown timer that refills itself with no borg around me to replenish the hold)

    Fire my gun

    Held

    Held

    Held

    Motion Accelerator

    Held

    ad nauseum.

    If it weren't for my bridge crew and the motion accelerator, I'd never survive an encounter on an inside map.

    This...really...annoys me. From doing ground missions in dailies in B'Tran to the Cure and Terradome.

    Also, I agree with...uh the Dev Guy, forgot his name already, but this was not a Nerf at all from my experience from The Cure today. (Granted this was my first time in The Cure, but the pain staking ways to find a way to win it which ended in failure all the same.)

    I think maybe, in these STFs what needs to happen NOW is now that they introduced these Borg "thingy's" that they need to introduce them as just more in a wide scale. Make it so there is some kind of insentive to do them OVER AND OVER again. I think they are on the right track...

    Now in terms of The Cure and various other "raids"...

    I think...that these STFs need to have to have another look at them. Maybe what the DEVs should do is jump onto Holodeck and get a PUG and trying to complete it in 40 Minutes. I bet thier conclusion would be that it takes WAY LONGER than an estimated amount of time to do it. Alright, I am going to level with everyone. My writs are not what it used to be. I am training myself to be quite a good bowler and my left wrist can only take so much at a keyboard before it starts giving out... at around hour two of trying to get past the 2nd line of Borg Drones and see if it works.

    I would say....around hour 3 was when I finally tapped out on trying to get past this and my nephew was yelling at me to cook dinner. The one thing I enjoy about this MMO is being able to do things at one's own pace. It is very rewards for me. But at the same time, these raids... man. I could go into detail about having to free up an entire SATURDAY for events in another game. I am thankful for that. But this....above...in the quote is what kills it. In addition to thinking of what can be done in terms of the unbalanced difficulty VS ground and space to the problems i have with STFs.

    One quick story that happened in Terradome was the fact that it took about an HOUR to get past the space battle. To me...that is a little bit much. So I emplore the Dev's re-explore the facets of the STF's and understand yes...it is 5 VS the WORLD in these scenarios but keep in mind that we do have friends and family and would love to enjoy the Star Trek Experience but would not like to have ourselves doing hours on end in the same problem in trying to solve it.

    My apologies for taking up such a wall of text.
    Cheers
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    And that I always tell you when I change anything on these missions ?


    pppffffftttt..... "Steath Nerf"..... there is nothing stealthy about me :)

    Haha. I didn't think so. I ran into all of the OP's issues (maybe we were in the same group?) today and my money is that most of these were unpleasant issues associated with hotfixes, not intentional difficulty spikes.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Azurian wrote: »
    I have noticed that the STFs got a steatlh nerf in today's patch and it's extremely frustrating, not only has the STFs gotten worse, but there are bugs too.

    The Borg are running around and spamming effects.

    Group members having troulbe reentering the same instance and forcing groups to restart.

    Captain Ogen double respawns groups.

    Infected Part 3 now has a wandering group to prevent people running. Which makes it harder, but still allow players to do.

    Infected's Boss room has instantaneous respawning when doing consoles, making it even harder to fight the Boss.

    Infected's Boss consoles no longer have sound effects.



    And that's just infected, the cure is even worse, not to mention Khitomer's annoying first part in which is Escort dependant.


    Honestly, the STFs are getting worse than being fixed for the better. After I get my Borg Gear, I really am not going to bother with the STFs ever again.

    ehhm... did you do Infected on KDF side? The following issues have been unique for KDF infected for as long as i know:
    - Infected Part 3 now has a wandering group to prevent people running.
    - Infected's Boss consoles no longer have sound effects.

    Please clarify this:
    - Infected's Boss room has instantaneous respawning when doing consoles
    i've done infected 3 times over the last 24h, and i don't see any change in the re-pop timer... they do re-pop, but not more frequently than before?

    And these, have been here for quite a while now... since season 2 if memory serves:
    - The Borg are running around and spamming effects.

    And this has always been this way:
    - Captain Ogen double respawns groups.

    BUT... i DO agree that the STF's are being hurt a lot by nerfing/changing of other stuff:
    - Scramble Sensors/VM nerf (season 1.1) made everything harder.
    - RSP nerf helped a lot in PvP, but the STFs got harder.
    - Added knockback resistance helped ground PvP, but made The Cure more difficult
    - Suddenly, around season 2, the borg patrols started running!!!!
    - and lots of other stuff...

    I just completed a full Infected-Cure-KA run, and the only thing i see that has changed over the last few days is all kinds of wierd stuff with Proto-drone beamins:
    - Sometimes tactical or Heavy tactical drones will beam in instead of protos! :o
    - There does not seem to be any limit on how may protos can be called in total, and the frequency of beamins seem to be out of control.
    - Protos do even more damage!
    - Proto weapons do INSANE knockback.
    - Proto knockback DOES NOT GIVE ANY KNOCKBACK RESISTANCE! I've had 2 protos sweep me clear across the room, without ever getting back on my feet.

    This insanity makes the ground part of the STFs a lot harder than pre-season 3...

    As for KA space part? The BEST PART OF THIS GAME BY FAR!! (imo) and the favourite STF in my fleet :)

    As for the 'fixed exploit'.... was really 5 emblems AND 5 Marks of V out of line? With missions that take THIS much time, requires THIS much effort and drops THAT bad loot! (the borg STF set does not really suck, except the shields, but that is only for the first time you run through it... the rest of the time you are stuck with crappy mkX stuff :( )

    I really don't think adding loot that you get only the first time, reducing the regular reward, and upping the difficulty, is the right way to go if they want more people to play the STFs... :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Can't we have Hold Resist.

    Borg applies Hold, another Borg cannot apply an hold for 30 seconds..?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    STF Borg need to stop sprinting, do insane damage and spawn like cockroaches. The difficulty needs to come from their abilities and tactical approach rather than spam. Many people here get a good team and all the sudden they think all is peachy, but although I can run through STF myself, I still think they are badly broken and completely unfun.

    Additionally the PVP changes (that always kill most games in PVE) are starting to affect this game far too much as well for the sake of the very few that slug it off at arenas. All the while the PVE opposition of course is not updated with those restrictions creating issues where there were none.

    I hope one day one person designing such content will come up with something better for difficulty than what we have. So far difficulty in this game always equals tedium and nothing more.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    The borg have ALWAYS spammed their holds.

    For me, combat with the borg goes like this:

    Held

    Motion accelerator

    Held

    Held

    Held (With a countdown timer that refills itself with no borg around me to replenish the hold)

    Fire my gun

    Held

    Held

    Held

    Motion Accelerator

    Held

    ad nauseum.

    If it weren't for my bridge crew and the motion accelerator, I'd never survive an encounter on an inside map.

    wow, so im not alone feeling this way. great to see.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Well, main reasons for me not to like STFs are the time pressure through fast respawn requiring you to rush through a mission without a break and the necessarity to maintain high concentration while doing so, since mission design seldomly forgive mistakes, which are common in a pickup group unfamiliar with particular STFs. You are also required to study a walkthrough for a particular STF mission before even trying it out for the first time in order to achieve any progress.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Woril wrote: »
    Well, main reasons for me not to like STFs are the time pressure through fast respawn requiring you to rush through a mission without a break and the necessarity to maintain high concentration while doing so, since mission design seldomly forgive mistakes, which are common in a pickup group unfamiliar with particular STFs. You are also required to study a walkthrough for a particular STF mission before even trying it out for the first time in order to achieve any progress.

    Fast? Respawn? STF??

    I think you're mistaking them with Fleet Actions?

    There have been MANY times where I've been in a team, mid STF when someone needs to go afk for a bit, so the rest of us just hang out for 10 minutes or more sometimes with no respawn problems. Some will pop back up behind you, but it takes a long time to do. There is no rush at all.

    As for the OP: I've only found there to be some of the issues list on the KDF side of things. No audio on consoles, Extra patrol between Ogen and Rebecca's chamber, along with the removal of the last respawn point in the ramp before the chamber. On Fed side, it's fine.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    CX7 wrote: »
    Can't we have Hold Resist.

    Borg applies Hold, another Borg cannot apply an hold for 30 seconds..?

    this i whole heartadly agree on, those assimilation holds stack waaay to much wether it be on a groud patrol, mission or the STF's, we desperatly need this, please gozer, dan get that fixed when you nuke ground combat.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Dahm_bomb wrote: »
    You do realize that a "nerf" is when things get weaker...right?

    Stealth Fern then? Sounds a little leafy to me. Stealth buff?
    pppffffftttt..... "Steath Nerf"..... there is nothing stealthy about me :)

    The "Bull in the China shop" technique has its advantages too.

    Merry Christmas!!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    thefrayl wrote: »
    Fast? Respawn? STF??

    I think you're mistaking them with Fleet Actions?

    There have been MANY times where I've been in a team, mid STF when someone needs to go afk for a bit, so the rest of us just hang out for 10 minutes or more sometimes with no respawn problems. Some will pop back up behind you, but it takes a long time to do. There is no rush at all.
    [...]
    I mean STFs. And the quoted statement sounds rather like a pro argument than like a counter argument to my statement.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    The worst parts of the STFs for me (beyond the ridiculously repetitive nature) are the Borg who think they're Flash Gordon and the stupid amount of holds they do. I mean before they would kinda stagger zombie-like to their death. Now they run to their deaths like their tail's on fire. I suppose it does add some much needed humor to those missions, but still the novelty wears off after awhile. The STFs just reek of contrived and misguided ways of desperately trying to "make them hard for PuGs".
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    I did all three STF's today... had no troubles at all.. nice and smooth... you must be doing something wrong...

    I concur. I ran all of them yesterday and I even did so with total PUGs and finished them all in about 12 hours from start to finish. I even had more sci guys than tac for two of the runs! Oddly enough KA was a cake walk! Shoot, no ships got by and no one died at all in the space part.
    [..]
    I just completed a full Infected-Cure-KA run, and the only thing i see that has changed over the last few days is all kinds of wierd stuff with Proto-drone beamins:
    - Sometimes tactical or Heavy tactical drones will beam in instead of protos!
    - There does not seem to be any limit on how may protos can be called in total, and the frequency of beamins seem to be out of control.
    - Protos do even more damage!
    - Proto weapons do INSANE knockback.
    - Proto knockback DOES NOT GIVE ANY KNOCKBACK RESISTANCE! I've had 2 protos sweep me clear across the room, without ever getting back on my feet.

    This insanity makes the ground part of the STFs a lot harder than pre-season 3...

    As for KA space part? The BEST PART OF THIS GAME BY FAR!! (imo) and the favourite STF in my fleet

    As for the 'fixed exploit'.... was really 5 emblems AND 5 Marks of V out of line? With missions that take THIS much time, requires THIS much effort and drops THAT bad loot! (the borg STF set does not really suck, except the shields, but that is only for the first time you run through it... the rest of the time you are stuck with crappy mkX stuff

    I really don't think adding loot that you get only the first time, reducing the regular reward, and upping the difficulty, is the right way to go if they want more people to play the STFs... :p

    I can attest to the "new" changes you speak of as far as the behavior goes as I have experienced all of it. Shoot, while doing the Infected I had not one but two HT beamins appear on top of me and beat me to a pulp!!!! Good times for sure! :eek:

    Regarding the "exploit" I'm under the impression it was to stop people from getting the Borg reward twice. As far as the valor and emblems go, yeah they should doubled or even higher as far as I'm concerned.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Any group of occupation, any STF, anytime, anywere...

    Notice I didn't say anyone.

    P.S. your little play by play was missing any mention of Large Hypo.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Ran Infected last night for the first time ever. As a matter of fact it was four of us fleet members who never did it, and one experienced fleet member. We did it without any issues in roughly 2 hours (wasn't going for any records here.) When I say issues, I mean bugs or the like. We had issues like me missing the jump and landing in the pool of goo, then hitting the respawn button. :eek:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Azurian wrote: »

    The Borg are running around and spamming effects. Seemed fine the two runs i did about 12 hours ago

    Group members having troulbe reentering the same instance and forcing groups to restart. its always occasionally done that..just make sure your in a group that wont drop on you

    Captain Ogen double respawns groups. havent seen that before

    Infected Part 3 now has a wandering group to prevent people running. Which makes it harder, but still allow players to do. so its not really a problem then

    Infected's Boss room has instantaneous respawning when doing consoles, making it even harder to fight the Boss. the console jumps are easy just equip high density to knock the borg instantly into the plasma

    Infected's Boss consoles no longer have sound effects. sound was working for me, but in my fleet we countdown using ts anyway

    all in all im finding it fine
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