Gah, can't we try to keep a little distinction between the factions?
But yeah, the Alien Generator is often abused for creating canon races that aren't meant to fit in with the respective factions, such as Starfleet Orions or KDF Romulans and stuff. I've already seen a lot of Alien Humans on Qo'noS as well. In fact, I know one of them - he's roleplaying a neutral smuggler, has created the same character on each side.
PS: Riker was a peacetime Exchange Officer - the Klingon Empire and the Federation are currently at war. A KDF Human would likely have grown up on a Klingon-occupied world, or was a neutral mercenary hired like the Nausicaans. Given the Klingon society roles for subjugated populations, the latter seems a bit more believable.
PS: Riker was a peacetime Exchange Officer - the Klingon Empire and the Federation are currently at war. A KDF Human would likely have grown up on a Klingon-occupied world, or was a neutral mercenary hired like the Nausicaans. Given the Klingon society roles for subjugated populations, the latter seems a bit more believable.
I was going to say that at first as well, but since Federation players can get Klingon faction BOs from the Diplomatic Corps that's obviously not an acceptable excuse. Hopefully whenever there's a KDF equivalent of the Diplomacy system, that might work to alleviate the problem.
That being the case, there IS a need for a 'Standard' Human for the Klingon Defence Force.
I'd argue it's a case for removing the human parts from aliengen.
While a klingon Fed is somewhat reasonable due to the multicultural open door nature of the Federation, the KDF is much less... forgiving... of it's enemies. Even if a human did manage to join the KDF the moment the war was on, assuming they weren't executed immediately, I have trouble believing they'd end up anywhere nicer than Rura Penthe, never mind in command of a klingon starship...
I was going to say that at first as well, but since Federation players can get Klingon faction BOs from the Diplomatic Corps that's obviously not an acceptable excuse. Hopefully whenever there's a KDF equivalent of the Diplomacy system, that might work to alleviate the problem.
A Human BOff I could potentially see. A Human KDF captain, on the other hand...not so likely, especially in the current astro-political climate. As pointed out above, the Federation is more tolerant of it's "enemies". The Klingons would most likely shoot on sight...or tort...um, interrogate them for sensitive Starfleet secrets.
Klingons can tolerate humans. Ferengi are too much like Romulans: always scheming, but for Ferengi scheming to make money. And Ferengi have no honor: they'll cheat their father, brother, best friend, etc if there's a buck to be made. Cheating is expected in the Ferengi culture.
It is neither and both at the same time. It has many sides yet it has none at all. The statistic follows the non-Euclidean arithmetic formulas. Either that or it's just a prime example that 36% of all statistics are made up on the spot. Five out of four statisticians will agree with me on that.
Well, at least the humans are better than those little 3 foot greys I seee running around on Qo'noS all the time :mad:
Back in my day, Klingons were Klingon, and reveled in the fact. And also booze.
In those days spirits were brave, the stakes were high, men were REAL men, women were REAL women, and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were REAL small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri.
I was going to say that at first as well, but since Federation players can get Klingon faction BOs from the Diplomatic Corps that's obviously not an acceptable excuse. Hopefully whenever there's a KDF equivalent of the Diplomacy system, that might work to alleviate the problem.
Keep in mind that you cannot get a Klingon from the FDC, only Orions, Nausicaan and Gorn. The reasoning behind this is (as far as I recall) that the Federation wants to "extend a laurel of peace" to potential allies within the governments of the factions allied with the Klingon Empire, using the Exchange Program to show selected officers what the UFP has to offer. The Orions want to abuse this to infiltrate Starfleet and the Nausicaans actually do not care at all for who they fight and have zero political pull on themselves. The Gorn are probably the only honest guys participating in this project since there actually are some Gorn out there who dislike the current state of affairs concerning the Hegemony's status as a vassal state.
You cannot get a Klingon BO through the FDC simply because the Federation is at war with the Klingon Empire and there is no faction (House) within the Klingon government that would want to participate. The honorable Houses are all loyal to the Empire and the dishonest ones see no personal gain in changing sides.
In any case, even if the KDF would copy the Federation FDC system, you couldn't get a Human. Only Vulcans, Andorians and ... I dunno, Pakleds?
We should probably also keep in mind that Klingon diplomacy works way different than Federation one. It is not as idealistic and emphasizes playing two factions against each other to profit from the result rather than working together to resolve a conflict.
I'd argue it's a case for removing the human parts from aliengen.
I'd be all for that, but then a lot of people would cry for not being allowed to make their Starfleet Orions who shouldn't really be there in the first place as well.
Oh, they're quite prevalent. I think the most numerous species is female Orions, followed by Klingons, then Humans, then Vulcans or Romulans, then Gorn, then Nausicaan.
Definitively. I'd only wish the game would support this more, as in there being a proper neutral mini-faction for people who just want to craft, trade and smuggle instead of blowing up battleships. That would negate the need to "circumvent" the canon restrictions with the Alien Generator and allow him to keep the same neutral ship.
In those days spirits were brave, the stakes were high, men were REAL men, women were REAL women, and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were REAL small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri.
And all dared to brave unknown terrors, to do mighty deeds, to boldly split infinitives that no man had split before and thus was the Empire forged!
I tend to check the info of any unusual species I spot Klingon side. Curiously the majority of "human-like" KDF characters I see as actually pale female Orion (the extreme of the Orion skin shades pallette allows a slightly more pink than Romulan skin tone) captains in KDF uniforms. There's an aweful lot of Trill in the KDF too by all appearances.
Curiously the majority of "human-like" KDF characters I see as actually pale female Orion (the extreme of the Orion skin shades pallette allows a slightly more pink than Romulan skin tone) captains in KDF uniforms.
Yeah, that's gotta be the best of both worlds. A Human with Seduce. :rolleyes:
Tbh, I still think that skin tone is a bug. Un-green Orions, really? And brown ones?
For everyone who's saying it doesn't make sense for a human to be on the side of the Empire...ummm why not? We're only a few decades post Dominion War and Feds seem to be kinda "lacking" when it comes to certain aspects of territory defense from rival ships and alien spies, where as the Klingons have been actively and successfully hunting the Undine for a while now and are doing fairly well minus the alliance with the Fed.
The assumption that a human would not want to join/change sides ignores the possibility there may be some humans who disagree with current Fed policy and prefer action vs reaction to enemy forces. It happens today where we have people who become turncoats, double agents, renounce citizenship, renounce or reject extremism of one sort or another and work for the "other side," etc. Why would this scenario be any different?
For everyone who's saying it doesn't make sense for a human to be on the side of the Empire...ummm why not? We're only a few decades post Dominion War and Feds seem to be kinda "lacking" when it comes to certain aspects of territory defense from rival ships and alien spies, where as the Klingons have been actively and successfully hunting the Undine for a while now and are doing fairly well minus the alliance with the Fed.
I actually already pointed out potential justifications, but that doesn't change that it's still bad. Playing "exceptions" in an MMO is a fail by default because exceptions are only exceptional as long as they're not showing up in force. As it is bound to happen in an MMO, is the case for Humans in the KDF already, and would only get worse would "Human" become a full-fledged legal species. You'll reach a point where it gets absurd in that the "Klingon" Defense Force is made up largely by the people they're fighting.
"When everybody is special, no-one is."
The massive amount of Joined Trills and Liberated Borg is crazy enough, so I, as someone who values the setting, do not see why it needs to be destroyed even more because someone thinks it'll be more "fun" to play something that doesn't fit into the image. I know that this opinion isn't shared by a lot of people - but honestly, do we need to kill the style of both factions this game has to offer? Let's just keep this sort of "fun" to the Feds and try to have Qo'noS retain the look it had in the shows, deal?
Then again, given that people can already roll Humans and space elves in the Alien Generator, I guess it won't make much of the difference as the damage is done already. I just don't like the idea of "legalizing" this sort of pseudo-exploitation.
It seems like a rather backward mode of reasoning that, because your own people are unwilling to do what it takes to defend themselves, you join and actively assist a species that has declared war on yours. You may have to beam into mom and dad's living room and disembowl them with a freaky looking sword, but hey, at least you're in the thick of it. And reasonably, I think, I'd expect the Klingons to regard human officer candidates with a very healthy dose of suspicion as well. There's always room for exceptions, but they really shoudn't be common.
Mind you, I'm of the opinion Klingon captains and Klingon BOs shouldn't be quite as well represented in Starfleet as they are either. Same on the liberated Borg, though a case can be made for the advance of technology and the long, drawn-out conflict with the Borg being the cause of them being on the rise. Still, for me that wasn't enough of an okay to make one.
People see a one-of-a-kind character on the shows, and instantly feel that makes them cool. So, wanting to be cool themselves, legions of discommendated Klingons, liberated Borg drones and Trellium addicted Vulcans with emotional issues are created, only to find 'their' character concepts anywhere between unoriginal and done to death, and faced with poorly (if at all) concealed disdain from prejudiced types like yours truly who have a hard time not regarding ("Hm, I don't want to look all gross and weird or have to frown a lot, but I do want to have all the awesome powers!") Betazoid as munchkins until proven otherwise.
Hard time as in I know in STO, in terms of gameplay mechanics, that's not a fair position to take, what with all races getting four traits. But in any free-form or roleplay setting, Betazoid traditionally tend to be over-used as basically humans with added abilities and no trade-off beyond not being able to pick their own eyecolor... and that's what the half-breeds are for.
Anyhow, back to the point this is supposed to be about... why not have Andorians in the KDF then? Or Vulcans. Or Nausicaans in Starfleet? Why could only Humans and Klingons have reservations about the way their peeps run things? Why stop there? Either we never stop, or we never start. Personally, I'd like to keep the factions different. Else, what's the point of having them in the first place?
Comments
But yeah, the Alien Generator is often abused for creating canon races that aren't meant to fit in with the respective factions, such as Starfleet Orions or KDF Romulans and stuff. I've already seen a lot of Alien Humans on Qo'noS as well. In fact, I know one of them - he's roleplaying a neutral smuggler, has created the same character on each side.
PS: Riker was a peacetime Exchange Officer - the Klingon Empire and the Federation are currently at war. A KDF Human would likely have grown up on a Klingon-occupied world, or was a neutral mercenary hired like the Nausicaans. Given the Klingon society roles for subjugated populations, the latter seems a bit more believable.
Currently it seems like about 40% of the KDF consists of "humans".
Agreed x100. And if you REALLY want to play a human in the KDF, roll an alien and make him/her look like one. End of discussion.
I'd argue it's a case for removing the human parts from aliengen.
While a klingon Fed is somewhat reasonable due to the multicultural open door nature of the Federation, the KDF is much less... forgiving... of it's enemies. Even if a human did manage to join the KDF the moment the war was on, assuming they weren't executed immediately, I have trouble believing they'd end up anywhere nicer than Rura Penthe, never mind in command of a klingon starship...
A Human BOff I could potentially see. A Human KDF captain, on the other hand...not so likely, especially in the current astro-political climate. As pointed out above, the Federation is more tolerant of it's "enemies". The Klingons would most likely shoot on sight...or tort...um, interrogate them for sensitive Starfleet secrets.
So which is it?
I rarely see KDF humans.
It is neither and both at the same time. It has many sides yet it has none at all. The statistic follows the non-Euclidean arithmetic formulas. Either that or it's just a prime example that 36% of all statistics are made up on the spot. Five out of four statisticians will agree with me on that.
Back in my day, Klingons were Klingon, and reveled in the fact. And also booze.
In those days spirits were brave, the stakes were high, men were REAL men, women were REAL women, and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were REAL small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri.
You cannot get a Klingon BO through the FDC simply because the Federation is at war with the Klingon Empire and there is no faction (House) within the Klingon government that would want to participate. The honorable Houses are all loyal to the Empire and the dishonest ones see no personal gain in changing sides.
In any case, even if the KDF would copy the Federation FDC system, you couldn't get a Human. Only Vulcans, Andorians and ... I dunno, Pakleds?
We should probably also keep in mind that Klingon diplomacy works way different than Federation one. It is not as idealistic and emphasizes playing two factions against each other to profit from the result rather than working together to resolve a conflict.
I'd be all for that, but then a lot of people would cry for not being allowed to make their Starfleet Orions who shouldn't really be there in the first place as well.
Oh, they're quite prevalent. I think the most numerous species is female Orions, followed by Klingons, then Humans, then Vulcans or Romulans, then Gorn, then Nausicaan.
thats a great idea
I tend to check the info of any unusual species I spot Klingon side. Curiously the majority of "human-like" KDF characters I see as actually pale female Orion (the extreme of the Orion skin shades pallette allows a slightly more pink than Romulan skin tone) captains in KDF uniforms. There's an aweful lot of Trill in the KDF too by all appearances.
Tbh, I still think that skin tone is a bug. Un-green Orions, really? And brown ones?
Deadlier than the male, eh?
Perhaps the Green ones are still unripe and the other colors denote a state of decay?
For everyone who's saying it doesn't make sense for a human to be on the side of the Empire...ummm why not? We're only a few decades post Dominion War and Feds seem to be kinda "lacking" when it comes to certain aspects of territory defense from rival ships and alien spies, where as the Klingons have been actively and successfully hunting the Undine for a while now and are doing fairly well minus the alliance with the Fed.
The assumption that a human would not want to join/change sides ignores the possibility there may be some humans who disagree with current Fed policy and prefer action vs reaction to enemy forces. It happens today where we have people who become turncoats, double agents, renounce citizenship, renounce or reject extremism of one sort or another and work for the "other side," etc. Why would this scenario be any different?
:rolleyes:
I actually already pointed out potential justifications, but that doesn't change that it's still bad. Playing "exceptions" in an MMO is a fail by default because exceptions are only exceptional as long as they're not showing up in force. As it is bound to happen in an MMO, is the case for Humans in the KDF already, and would only get worse would "Human" become a full-fledged legal species. You'll reach a point where it gets absurd in that the "Klingon" Defense Force is made up largely by the people they're fighting.
"When everybody is special, no-one is."
The massive amount of Joined Trills and Liberated Borg is crazy enough, so I, as someone who values the setting, do not see why it needs to be destroyed even more because someone thinks it'll be more "fun" to play something that doesn't fit into the image. I know that this opinion isn't shared by a lot of people - but honestly, do we need to kill the style of both factions this game has to offer? Let's just keep this sort of "fun" to the Feds and try to have Qo'noS retain the look it had in the shows, deal?
Then again, given that people can already roll Humans and space elves in the Alien Generator, I guess it won't make much of the difference as the damage is done already. I just don't like the idea of "legalizing" this sort of pseudo-exploitation.
Mind you, I'm of the opinion Klingon captains and Klingon BOs shouldn't be quite as well represented in Starfleet as they are either. Same on the liberated Borg, though a case can be made for the advance of technology and the long, drawn-out conflict with the Borg being the cause of them being on the rise. Still, for me that wasn't enough of an okay to make one.
People see a one-of-a-kind character on the shows, and instantly feel that makes them cool. So, wanting to be cool themselves, legions of discommendated Klingons, liberated Borg drones and Trellium addicted Vulcans with emotional issues are created, only to find 'their' character concepts anywhere between unoriginal and done to death, and faced with poorly (if at all) concealed disdain from prejudiced types like yours truly who have a hard time not regarding ("Hm, I don't want to look all gross and weird or have to frown a lot, but I do want to have all the awesome powers!") Betazoid as munchkins until proven otherwise.
Hard time as in I know in STO, in terms of gameplay mechanics, that's not a fair position to take, what with all races getting four traits. But in any free-form or roleplay setting, Betazoid traditionally tend to be over-used as basically humans with added abilities and no trade-off beyond not being able to pick their own eyecolor... and that's what the half-breeds are for.
Anyhow, back to the point this is supposed to be about... why not have Andorians in the KDF then? Or Vulcans. Or Nausicaans in Starfleet? Why could only Humans and Klingons have reservations about the way their peeps run things? Why stop there? Either we never stop, or we never start. Personally, I'd like to keep the factions different. Else, what's the point of having them in the first place?