United Kingdom
Monthly Per Month Total + VAT
1-Month 8.99 GBP 10.34 GBP
and you wonder why this game of yours as such low sub numbers,
tee hee...you will soon be free to play...and you know it...here's a very useful tip indeed....lower the sub to be inline with other subscriptions with other mmo's....wow i pay 8.99 per month...lotro i pay 8.99 per month, evercrack 2 i dont pay any more but the very most i paid through their deals was 9.49 and conan which is dying big time like this game is, is overpriced at 9.49...so how the hell can you can even justify charging more than those games which had to go free to play because they where too greedy?
Me thinks either you will lbe free to play...absolute fact you rip off merchants! We are in a huge recession and you think you can charge whatever you want for a game with no content?? LOTRO has life time subs, perhaps having a chat to those people over at codemasters is your best bet? they are free to play now...and do a whole lot better, and have a whole bigger player base too....did i mention they also now have a store like yours now?
In the us you only charge 14.99 which is inline and same price of other mmo's in europe we have to pay nearly 20.00 bucks per month? wtf...
even Metzen from wow said he could foresee in the next year or two wow going free to play...due to the rate of those leaving the game and they have a reported 12million subs...which proves to me you won't be just subscription based anymore and if you are you dont know what your doing!
The UK does pay a VAT. HERE's a nice little article talking about the law that was just passed two days ago increasing the UK VAT from 17.5% to 20% starting in January. Also, in case you didn't know, Atari is a French company.
The UK does pay a VAT. HERE's a nice little article talking about the law that was just passed two days ago increasing the UK VAT from 17.5% to 20% starting in January. Also, in case you didn't know, Atari is a French company.
it does not include uk tax and that uk tax rate goes up in january to 20%...it does not include online games or subscriptions!
STO is the only game that i have to pay added tax for ( Im in the UK )
exactly my point, but in europe they do have to pay an extra tax...and maybe they thought they could sneak an extra bunch of money on top thinking we would not notice it....how can you not notice you are paying more than any mmo out there?....its almost as equivalent as 20$ a month!
STO is the only game that i have to pay added tax for ( Im in the UK )
That's because some of the larger games, like WoW, give a price decrease and absorb the cost of the VAT themselves. They can afford to do that. Smaller companies can't. There are several games that I play that have VAT. It's not just STO. Aion also charges for VAT.
I'm sure the sub people at atari/cryptic are quite familiar with the tax laws of their subscriber's various countries. They know what to charge for everything.
The UK does pay a VAT. HERE's a nice little article talking about the law that was just passed two days ago increasing the UK VAT from 17.5% to 20% starting in January. Also, in case you didn't know, Atari is a French company.
I wasnt aware it was, but who is charging for this monthly fee? uk citizens do not and never have paid online tax relating to subscriptions..it integral to the amount paid and not the way its been listed on the sub page.
10.39 is absolutely shocking and an absolute digrace..i played conan once and i though 9.49 was a rip off...then along comes whoever and charges me 10.39 almost 1£ more 0.o
Let me give you an example. In the past 18 months blizzard tried to do the same thing...add on tax to the subscription that i pay, which is currently 8.99...however they where told they could only do this with eu citizens and tax is only applicable to a certain amount ..that amount had not been reached so they could not add on the extra tax to bring it to whatever it was they wanted to charge..however in europe? they where able to do this and they pay more than we do in the uk and in america /' canada or wherever.
And its this amount that I was I referring too...8.99 includes the tax in the UK...however....i am betting the extra money added on to the 8.99 is how much it costs to exchange and process the subscription inside paypal itself.
anyway I changed my topic because i got to thinking this will go the exact same way as lord or the rings and evercrack did recently...they offer subs, free to play if you have expansions etc, and they have their ingame store....so everyone wins and they gain more people = more profit than they have right now..surely dev and running the server cant be cheap for the low numbers playing.
I am just finding it incredibly hard to justify why they should charge more than i would be if i was in the states...its not acceptable
it does not include uk tax and that uk tax rate goes up in january to 20%...it does not include online games or subscriptions!
Again, if you read the article they're explicitly talking about the VAT tax. Also, the only things that ar VAT exempt are:
There are some goods on which you don't pay any VAT, like:
* most food items
* books, newspapers and magazines
* children's clothes
* some goods provided in special circumstances - for example, equipment for disabled people
If you feel there's an error you can contact Atari through their Support feature and ask to see their VAT license as verification during their regular business hours.
I wasnt aware it was, but who is charging for this monthly fee?
The percentage is taken out and paid the the respective government where the buyer is living. Atari pays the 17.5% tax on your fee to the UK government. Someone living in Italy will get charged 20% and that fee will be sent to the Italian government. If you feel you're being incorrectly taxed you can contact your tax bureau and request a tax refund form: whatever you have had paid in will be sent back to you; assuming the VAT tax is not valid in your area.
I am just finding it incredibly hard to justify why they should charge more than i would be if i was in the states...its not acceptable
It's not the fault of the States that they don't have a VAT tax. Take it up with your own government (who just raised their VAT tax 2.5%) and the EU. They're the ones who decided they wanted to make extra money through this type of commerce.
Again, if you read the article they're explicitly talking about the VAT tax. Also, the only things that ar VAT exempt are:
There are some goods on which you don't pay any VAT, like:
* most food items
* books, newspapers and magazines
* children's clothes
* some goods provided in special circumstances - for example, equipment for disabled people
If you feel there's an error you can contact Atari through their Support feature and ask to see their VAT license as verification during their regular business hours.
The point I am making is above, which I added too, i am sorry about that lol
I am willing to bet that the extra "tax" is not tax at all, but actually the cost of maintaining my paypal account...i suspect this because paypal charge a % for the transaction, for conversion etc.
the 8.99 would include the tax as a round number like blizzard where forced to do when they tried to add extra tax on to it about 18 months ago...for europeans they had to pay an online tax, we however in the UK don't. Also you need to remember, that right now? it was only recently upped to 17.5% where it was 15%..now the thing is my sub did not come down during this 15% vat..it stayed the same...which makes me believe they are charging for the pay pal service, the sub of 8.99 as always been that.
I should think about paying by credit card...but are atari good people to do business with, are they trustworthy? I only ask because i hate giving my cc details out to people i dont know and i am tired of having to pay the amount i am, when americans and canadians are paying much less.
whomever is responsible for this needs to be clear about what they are charging for....they aren't charging for vat on 8.99 if the vat in the uk came down for 9/10 of the year which it did...they also have to pay for paypal tansactions...which they should tell us "that this amount is for your paypal transaction / account maintenance or whatever"..its misleading me to think its for one thing when its another. however if its the same price as and when i pay by cc.then there is a big issue...they owe me money back because they did not take away / substract the 2.5% when it went down to 15 last January...it stayed the same..
I should think about paying by credit card...but are atari good people to do business with, are they trustworthy? I only ask because i hate giving my cc details out to people i dont know and i am tired of having to pay the amount i am, when americans and canadians are paying much less.
Technically people in the States are required to play Sales Tax on every internet purchase, whether the company they purchased from charges for it or not. Most, I would say probably 99.9%, don't pay it but it is a legal requirement. Eventually that law will be upheld and those in the US will be stuck paying extra for internet purchases just as if it were done face-to-face. I'm unfamiliar with Canada tax laws.
whomever is responsible for this needs to be clear about what they are charging for....they aren't charging for vat on 8.99 if the vat in the uk came down for 9/10 of the year which it did...they also have to pay for paypal tansactions...which they should tell us "that this amount is for your paypal transaction / account maintenance or whatever"..its misleading me to think its for one thing when its another. however if its the same price as and when i pay by cc.then there is a big issue...they owe me money back because they did not take away / substract the 2.5% when it went down to 15 last January...it stayed the same..
Every single article I have found about the UK VAT states that it was raised to 17.5% in Jan of 2010 from 15% in 2009 (it is being raised to 20% in 2011). It did not go down to 15% in 2010. The only thing that changed was the value threshold of the companies involved.
Technically people in the States are required to play Sales Tax on every internet purchase, whether the company they purchased from charges for it or not. Most, I would say probably 99.9%, don't pay it but it is a legal requirement. Eventually that law will be upheld and those in the US will be stuck paying extra for internet purchases just as if it were done face-to-face. I'm unfamiliar with Canada tax laws.
I do not believe that subscriptions to games get taxed in Canada.
Personaly I think the OP has gone too far with this,
Comparing STO to MMO's that have been going for 5 or 6 years is daft and besides that the price for MMO's has stayed steady at around the £10 mark for us in the UK for the same amount of time.
What you are commenting on is something that costs 3.33 pence a day or something that costs 3p a day...its nothing in the grand scheme of things.
I have never in my 10 years of playing games online expected the firm/company I payed money to to keep track of global changes in VAT or inflation and adjust prices daily/weekly/monthly based on how the current government in the said country decides what their VAT rate is going to be. Things can easily swing the other way but the price will stay the same....Do you expect to see posts on the forum then saying 'Sorry Cryptic but I'm paying too much for this game' if the exchange rate with the UK and the US goes in favour of the UK.
Dont mean to sound harsh, but really theres bigger fish to fry than quibbling over a pound a month.
United Kingdom
Monthly Per Month Total + VAT
1-Month 8.99 GBP 10.34 GBP
and you wonder why this game of yours as such low sub numbers,
10.34 is for the lucky ones. Sometimes there's additional 'currency exchange' charges on top of that, as the GBP price is converted to USD. (On the gross amount including VAT, needless to say.)
A friend of mine was paying over £12 a month until they cancelled.
Cheapest solution for Brits is to use Gamecards. You can get 60-day gamecards on Ebay for about £18, which puts it back into line with other games.
A quick froogle reveals you might be able to get them for less, but caveat emptor.
STO is the only game that i have to pay added tax for ( Im in the UK )
No it isn't.
You pay Full-Rate VAT on about 97% of everything you ever buy.
If you don't understand this simple fact you are destined to a miserable life should you ever get to leave school, as is the OP who is clearly an imbecile.
Technically people in the States are required to play Sales Tax on every internet purchase, whether the company they purchased from charges for it or not. Most, I would say probably 99.9%, don't pay it but it is a legal requirement. Eventually that law will be upheld and those in the US will be stuck paying extra for internet purchases just as if it were done face-to-face. I'm unfamiliar with Canada tax laws.
The sales tax on internet purchases only applies to physical items sold, not services like subscriptions or virtual currencies like Cryptic Points. Those are not taxed under current US Law. A few states have added sales tax to them in their state laws however.
The sales tax on internet purchases only applies to physical items sold, not services like subscriptions or virtual currencies like Cryptic Points. Those are not taxed under current US Law. A few states have added sales tax to them in their state laws however.
The OP was talking about V.A.T. - A U.K. Sales tax paid on all goods and services regardless of whether purchased online or in rl.
Full rate VAT is at present 17.5%
(This is set to rise to 20% on Jan 11 2011)
Most of everything you ever buy has full rate VAT included in the price.
There is a 5% rate, which I shalln't bother to explain as it would never affect the OP unless he wanted to buy female sanitary products, and a 0% rate which applies to non-luxury food items, childrens shoes, books and newspapers. (Unless the books are a downloadable purchase, in which case full VAT is payable).
To clarify:
0% Rate, a jar of salt is zero-rated ie 0% VAT
A Jar of pepper is full-rate, ie 17.5%
A game whether downloaded or physically bought is full-rate, ie 17.5%
A subscription to an MMO is full rate, ie 17.5%
OP, If you still disagree with, or do not understand UK VAT laws speak to HMRC as it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Cryptic.
Comments
it does not include uk tax and that uk tax rate goes up in january to 20%...it does not include online games or subscriptions!
exactly my point, but in europe they do have to pay an extra tax...and maybe they thought they could sneak an extra bunch of money on top thinking we would not notice it....how can you not notice you are paying more than any mmo out there?....its almost as equivalent as 20$ a month!
I wasnt aware it was, but who is charging for this monthly fee? uk citizens do not and never have paid online tax relating to subscriptions..it integral to the amount paid and not the way its been listed on the sub page.
10.39 is absolutely shocking and an absolute digrace..i played conan once and i though 9.49 was a rip off...then along comes whoever and charges me 10.39 almost 1£ more 0.o
Let me give you an example. In the past 18 months blizzard tried to do the same thing...add on tax to the subscription that i pay, which is currently 8.99...however they where told they could only do this with eu citizens and tax is only applicable to a certain amount ..that amount had not been reached so they could not add on the extra tax to bring it to whatever it was they wanted to charge..however in europe? they where able to do this and they pay more than we do in the uk and in america /' canada or wherever.
And its this amount that I was I referring too...8.99 includes the tax in the UK...however....i am betting the extra money added on to the 8.99 is how much it costs to exchange and process the subscription inside paypal itself.
anyway I changed my topic because i got to thinking this will go the exact same way as lord or the rings and evercrack did recently...they offer subs, free to play if you have expansions etc, and they have their ingame store....so everyone wins and they gain more people = more profit than they have right now..surely dev and running the server cant be cheap for the low numbers playing.
I am just finding it incredibly hard to justify why they should charge more than i would be if i was in the states...its not acceptable
There are some goods on which you don't pay any VAT, like:
* most food items
* books, newspapers and magazines
* children's clothes
* some goods provided in special circumstances - for example, equipment for disabled people
If you feel there's an error you can contact Atari through their Support feature and ask to see their VAT license as verification during their regular business hours.
The point I am making is above, which I added too, i am sorry about that lol
I am willing to bet that the extra "tax" is not tax at all, but actually the cost of maintaining my paypal account...i suspect this because paypal charge a % for the transaction, for conversion etc.
the 8.99 would include the tax as a round number like blizzard where forced to do when they tried to add extra tax on to it about 18 months ago...for europeans they had to pay an online tax, we however in the UK don't. Also you need to remember, that right now? it was only recently upped to 17.5% where it was 15%..now the thing is my sub did not come down during this 15% vat..it stayed the same...which makes me believe they are charging for the pay pal service, the sub of 8.99 as always been that.
I should think about paying by credit card...but are atari good people to do business with, are they trustworthy? I only ask because i hate giving my cc details out to people i dont know and i am tired of having to pay the amount i am, when americans and canadians are paying much less.
whomever is responsible for this needs to be clear about what they are charging for....they aren't charging for vat on 8.99 if the vat in the uk came down for 9/10 of the year which it did...they also have to pay for paypal tansactions...which they should tell us "that this amount is for your paypal transaction / account maintenance or whatever"..its misleading me to think its for one thing when its another. however if its the same price as and when i pay by cc.then there is a big issue...they owe me money back because they did not take away / substract the 2.5% when it went down to 15 last January...it stayed the same..
Not even decaf.
I do not believe that subscriptions to games get taxed in Canada.
Comparing STO to MMO's that have been going for 5 or 6 years is daft and besides that the price for MMO's has stayed steady at around the £10 mark for us in the UK for the same amount of time.
What you are commenting on is something that costs 3.33 pence a day or something that costs 3p a day...its nothing in the grand scheme of things.
I have never in my 10 years of playing games online expected the firm/company I payed money to to keep track of global changes in VAT or inflation and adjust prices daily/weekly/monthly based on how the current government in the said country decides what their VAT rate is going to be. Things can easily swing the other way but the price will stay the same....Do you expect to see posts on the forum then saying 'Sorry Cryptic but I'm paying too much for this game' if the exchange rate with the UK and the US goes in favour of the UK.
Dont mean to sound harsh, but really theres bigger fish to fry than quibbling over a pound a month.
10.34 is for the lucky ones. Sometimes there's additional 'currency exchange' charges on top of that, as the GBP price is converted to USD. (On the gross amount including VAT, needless to say.)
A friend of mine was paying over £12 a month until they cancelled.
Cheapest solution for Brits is to use Gamecards. You can get 60-day gamecards on Ebay for about £18, which puts it back into line with other games.
A quick froogle reveals you might be able to get them for less, but caveat emptor.
Don't complain to Cryptic. They can not do a thing about it.
No it isn't.
You pay Full-Rate VAT on about 97% of everything you ever buy.
If you don't understand this simple fact you are destined to a miserable life should you ever get to leave school, as is the OP who is clearly an imbecile.
The sales tax on internet purchases only applies to physical items sold, not services like subscriptions or virtual currencies like Cryptic Points. Those are not taxed under current US Law. A few states have added sales tax to them in their state laws however.
The OP was talking about V.A.T. - A U.K. Sales tax paid on all goods and services regardless of whether purchased online or in rl.
Full rate VAT is at present 17.5%
(This is set to rise to 20% on Jan 11 2011)
Most of everything you ever buy has full rate VAT included in the price.
There is a 5% rate, which I shalln't bother to explain as it would never affect the OP unless he wanted to buy female sanitary products, and a 0% rate which applies to non-luxury food items, childrens shoes, books and newspapers. (Unless the books are a downloadable purchase, in which case full VAT is payable).
To clarify:
0% Rate, a jar of salt is zero-rated ie 0% VAT
A Jar of pepper is full-rate, ie 17.5%
A game whether downloaded or physically bought is full-rate, ie 17.5%
A subscription to an MMO is full rate, ie 17.5%
OP, If you still disagree with, or do not understand UK VAT laws speak to HMRC as it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Cryptic.