The Universethe Ultimate Front Lines!
These are the expeditions of the Fleet Light Bearers!
Their Enduring Commission: to encounter unknown planets,
To show The Way to lost souls and despairing cultures,
To fearlessly sail where no Christian has previously journeyed!
Fleet Light Bearers
Founded Stardate 88361.98
Earthdate Sunday, October 3rd, 2010 at 9:56:49 P.M.
Emblem Anchor and Lightning Bolt (see my Avatar)
Theme Verses John 8:12 & Romans 13:12
Members (as of this posting) Nineteen
Beliefs Christian
Howdy and welcome to our page! My name is Noah@Jothan and The Lord put it on my heart to found a precedent. Why? Well, simply because there needs to be a place that shines in the night. Light is a curious thing. The Holy Bible gives us a look at light in Job 38:19, Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof, (Authorized King James Version).
Light flies in a straight and narrow beam at 186,000 miles per second. God knew this when He told Job light dwells in a way. Light never stops moving unless something makes it. This is shown by how far a candle can be seen on a clear night: 18,792 feet or 3.6 miles! Pretty impressive if you ask me. But then again, if you think about it, it isnt that impressive. Let me give another example.
Our sun Sol is 864,938 miles in diameter, yet you could still see it at Alpha Centauri which is 4.22 light-years away. And that isnt even the start of it. Stars much smaller than our Sun and farther away can be seen on Earth with the naked eye. To top that off, the Andromeda galaxy is so far away that our mind can hardly grasp the miles, yet we see it. Of course all the trillions of stars work together to get the light to us in the intensity needed for our eyes to pick up, but that shows what numbers can do.
Darkness is different though. It does not move. As God said above, it has a place. Where is that place? Where light isnt. Darkness is the absence of light. I once heard a player on STO refer to the people on STO as those sailing the dark sea. Took me a moment to figure out what it meant, what made it click was the saying a sea of stars.
Space is a sea which looks dark, but is it? Not really. The light is there, traveling to wherever its course will take it; the thing is we only see the light when it hits something. We see the stars because the light hit our eyes. We see the Earth because light bounced off it to our eyes. The same goes for the moon. But light isnt just on the moon, or in the Sun, it is everywhere in-between. This universe would be bright if we could actually see light traveling! Light is everywhere except the shadows left when the light is blocked.
This is similar to, but not identical to, what Jesus light is like. Jesus is The Light of the world. Satan tries to stop His light, but the truth is there are no shadows where His light cannot reach. The reason is that Jesus is The Christ, God made flesh. He came to live a perfect life, then to die for our sins, and to rise from death victorious!
We in this fleet are those who want to help show that light to those who need to see it. Do you have a burning in your heart to spread The Truth? Are you compelled to show The Way? Have a hunger and thirst to live The Life? If so, we would be honoured to have you in our midst! Just get in contact with me in some way with your request to join. It can be through a private message via these forums, posting a reply on this thread, a mail in-game, or the direct finding me in-game. Thank you!
May God bless all those whose eyes have fallen on this page. In Jesus name, A-men.
Noah B. Jothan
Interesting concept..... thou almighty doest speak to us in mysterious ways........
Good Journey friend.....:)
Thank you very much; I hope the journey goes well too! And God does speak in mysterious ways, though there is no Bible verse which says so, interestingly. The idea is portrayed in Romans 11:33-36, though.
O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out! For who hath known the mind of The Lord? Or who hath been His counsellor? Or who hath first given to Him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? For of Him, and through Him, and to Him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
Thank you Craig-Hill, Merry Christmas to you too! I hope our Sister Fleet of sorts, the 91st Expeditionary Group, is going well! May Jesus bless you all!
Ambassador for Christ,
Noah Jothan
2 Corinthians 5:20
That is a great challenge but forgive my surprise, seems no one out there sees it worthy to do such things anymore. Reminded me of where in the newest Star Trek movie Captain Christopher Pike is telling young James T. Kirk about his father Lieutenant George Kirk. Pike says (transcribed from subtitles), Now, your father was captain of a starship for 12 minutes. He saved 800 lives, including your mothers. And yours. I dare you to do better.
We need more dares like that, and challenges like yours! Thank you!
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is Light, and in Him is no darkness at all.
If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness,
we lie, and do not The Truth:
But if we walk in The Light, as He is in The Light, we have fellowship one with another,
and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.
HAPPY NEW YEARSto everyone from the Light Bearers!
To start this New Year Id like to give a Christianized version of a traditional Jewish Blessing based on Numbers 6:24-26.
May Jesus bless thee, and keep thee:
May He make His face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
May He lift up His countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.
A-men (let it be so).
Although it is often not understood, Jesus (Yeshua) is the promised Messiah of the Israelites, Gods chosen people. We Christians (or Gentiles) have the honor to know the same God of Creation. The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: Yahweh.
Now unto The King Eternal,
Immortal,
Invisible,
The Only Wise God,
be honour and glory for ever and ever.
Amen.
If I profess with the loudest voice and clearest exposition every portion of the truth of God except precisely that little point which the world and the Devil are at that moment attacking, I am not confessing Christ, however boldly I may be professing Christ. Where the battle rages, there the loyalty of the soldier is proved, and to be steady on all the battlefield besides, is mere flight and disgrace if he flinches at that point.
Hello from Zion Fleet. Oh wait ....could it be? Another Christian Guild? A big hardy welcome and glad to see you guys. We have ventrilo and sometime in the future we should discuss joint operations. Look for the ships with ZF or a ship called "U.S.S. Romans 5.18" God Bless, Sandman.
Howdy Sandman! Good to hear from another Christian Fleet, or Guild if you would like to call it that! Looks like you had the same shock I did when I first found another Christian Fleet, The 91st Expeditionary Group whose Admiral is Veritas@Craig-Hill. Their website is http://tiger.shinstkd.com/91Exp/ if you want more info.
Romans 5:18 KJV Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Good verse to use as a ship name! Now, I have looked over the forums a little to see if I could gather any information. I hope that is okay. From my findings and correct me if I am wrong, your Commander is MacLeod@-JF-Highlander and website is http://zf.guildlaunch.com/. You look to be a good fleet to discuss allying with!
Thank you so much for commenting, you dont know how much joy it brings to find more believers, and the excitement of seeing a new comment! I will let my fleet know of you guys. May God bless you all and I look forward to further communications!
The best fantasy film I have ever seen is Dragonheart. The main dragon in the movie, nicknamed Draco, is voiced by Sean Connery. In it The Old Code of King Arthur plays a major role. Here it is transcribed; the definitions come from Penguin Readers.
A Knight1 is Sworn to Valour2!
His Heart Knows only Virtue3!
His Blade4 Defends the Helpless!
His Might5 Upholds the Weak!
His Word Speaks only Truth!
His Wrath6 Undoes7 the Wicked!
A man who fought for the King on horses
Courage
Goodness
Sword
Strength
Anger
Ruins
Christians are Knights for Jesus Christ The King of all kings! We will even return with Jesus on our very own horse! Look here at Revelation 19:11-16; specifically verse 14 which is italicized. Emphasis added to the KJV.
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse;
and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True,
and in righteousness He doth judge and make war.
His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns;
and He had a name written, that no man knew, but He Himself.
And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood:
and His name is called The Word of God.
And the armies which were in heaven followed Him upon white horses,
clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
And out of His mouth goeth a sharp sword,
that with it He should smite the nations:
and He shall rule them with a rod of iron:
and He treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
And He hath on His vesture and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
I feel it is time I explained our Emblem / Patch so everyone knows what it means.
Base Shape: Dark Circular Patch
This is to show that we live in a dark world. It is true that many deny this fact. They believe everyone is inherently good at heart. This is not the case, sadly. Not since that day around 6,000 years ago when Adam sinned in Eden (Genesis 3:1-24). As a result, now the heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked to quote Jeremiah 17:9. So much so that we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags as it says in Isaiah 64:6. Due to this fact Jesus has no choice but to condemn those who reject Him to hell, as He Himself tells us in John 3:16-21.
Background: White Lightning Bolt
Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
For there shall arise false christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders;
insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Behold, I have told you before.
Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth:
Behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west;
so shall also the coming of The Son of Man be. Matthew 24:23-27
Jesus will return like lightning from the east, or right to left if facing north. Also we Christians are to be pure lights for the world to see, like it says in Matthew 5:14.
Foreground: Green Anchor
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro,
and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men,
and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
But speaking The Truth in Love, may grow up into Him in all things,
which is The Head, even Christ: Ephesians 4:14-15
Jesus is the anchor of our lives, the firm foundation (Matthew 7:24-27). He gives us life by death on a cross, and you will notice a cross in the anchors design. That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign
through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 5:21
first let me say kewl intro next where you get 6000 years if you add pre flood, noah , and the whole abraham and mose, and then the four hunderd year selience plus 32 years of christ and then 2000 years for since you get about ten thousands years give or take a few if you count the genology of adam foward correct. just asking ?
also i find must peps dont believe they even sin so if the wish to behave like animals let them dont give the pearls of christ to the swine.
frick1978.:eek:
Thank you Admiral Joseph Frick for the questions! I love answering these types of things. Ill take them one at a time.
First off, thank you! Glad you like the introduction!
2 Where do you get 6,000 years from?
Very good! I am impressed with your knowledge on the subject. You outlined the way to know Biblically very well. But it also works from other documentary evidence. Most ancient cultures that had a calendar going back all the way to Creation only went back to around 6-7 thousand years. No more than 10,000. As a result, anyone who gives an age for Earth over 10k is wrong. Especially if you take all the scientific evidence too.
For a few examples, our moon is spinning away from us slowly each year. Only 1 million years ago and it would be too close to Earths gravity to hold its own shape. Wed have no moon today in other words. Also, our magnetic field is decreasing in strength. Only a few million years ago and it would have been so strong that iron would start to be ripped from the blood. Those are just 2 examples. Nothing over plain thousands of years work.
To be more specific, I believe in James Ushers date for Creation: October 23, 4004 BC. I also agree with Frederick Larsons date for Jesus Christs birth in the month of June, 2 BC. For the details on these two dates please look at the following websites:
Honestly though, in my opinion, the specific dates do not need to be known. All you really need to believe is Jesus died for our sins and that God never lies. He said thousands, not millions. He said created, not evolved. He said Adam and Eve were made at the beginning, not years after (Matthew 19:4). We need to trust Him on that. The above is just how I see it.
Thirdly, I do not know what your point on this is, exactly. I know many do not believe that they sin, but does that mean you think I need to show more evidence that they do sin? I am just trying to understand better.
Thank you Admiral Joseph Frick for the questions! I love answering these types of things. Ill take them one at a time.
First off, thank you! Glad you like the introduction!
2 Where do you get 6,000 years from?
Very good! I am impressed with your knowledge on the subject. You outlined the way to know Biblically very well. But it also works from other documentary evidence. Most ancient cultures that had a calendar going back all the way to Creation only went back to around 6-7 thousand years. No more than 10,000. As a result, anyone who gives an age for Earth over 10k is wrong. Especially if you take all the scientific evidence too.
For a few examples, our moon is spinning away from us slowly each year. Only 1 million years ago and it would be too close to Earths gravity to hold its own shape. Wed have no moon today in other words. Also, our magnetic field is decreasing in strength. Only a few million years ago and it would have been so strong that iron would start to be ripped from the blood. Those are just 2 examples. Nothing over plain thousands of years work.
To be more specific, I believe in James Ushers date for Creation: October 23, 4004 BC. I also agree with Frederick Larsons date for Jesus Christs birth in the month of June, 2 BC. For the details on these two dates please look at the following websites:
Honestly though, in my opinion, the specific dates do not need to be known. All you really need to believe is Jesus died for our sins and that God never lies. He said thousands, not millions. He said created, not evolved. He said Adam and Eve were made at the beginning, not years after (Matthew 19:4). We need to trust Him on that. The above is just how I see it.
Thirdly, I do not know what your point on this is, exactly. I know many do not believe that they sin, but does that mean you think I need to show more evidence that they do sin? I am just trying to understand better.
May God bless you and your fleet!
Noah
first great job i look those up second most science is based on wrong timeline such as the eygptian one ect ect to be more accurate use the history of writtening it more fluid in time the science, the oldest writtens begin around ten thousands years ago thus with said bible statements the world is at least ten thousands years old, and i agree i with you on your opion it was great to hear you say it, i think i follow it, next my answer to the sin part is that most people dont beleive the sin because they dont believe in god, thus dont give pearls to the swine is adont give the word on the sinful who refuse to believe any way. lastely jesus was born some time in between april and june do to the calander and postion of the stars. i thank you for anwsering me most people just yell at me.
Thank you, glad you think I did well! Sadly I do not know exactly everything you mean. I will do my very best, trying to interpret it all, to answer. Ill let you know what makes it hard, not to make you feel bad but so you know where my confusion lies. The run-on sentences, lack of punctuation of any sort often, and misspelled words. Please bear with me on any misunderstandings.
On the timeline, yes, Ussher made references to many calendars, including the Egyptian one, but, you must remember that he tried is very utmost to not contradict Scripture. He used Jewish culture and Biblical records for everything he did. October 23, 4004 BC follows many things. First, God created the world in 6 days to give us the example of a work week (Exodus 20:11) and that date is the 1st day of the week: Sunday. The Sabbath being Saturday, the 7th day. Next, it lands on the Autumnal Equinox, and our God is a God of order. Just look at this world and universe and you see order galore. Third, it is also the Jewish New Year, Rosh Hashanah. The Jews, A.K.A. Israelites (Israelis) and Hebrews, are Gods Chosen People, even today, Christians are an extension of that family. It makes sense God would begin their year at Creation. So, Bishop James Ussher did his homework and made the best educated guess I think anyone could. And two other separate people did their work from scratch and confirmed his dates: Mathematician Dr. Ivan Panin and Geophysicist Floyd Nolen Jones, Ph.D. and Th.D., I think theyre right.
Use the history of writing, I assume you mean? I do not trust the history of writing as it is believed by who I hold as the untrustworthy, I.E. evolutionists. I distrust them so much, I have worked with my Dad to come up with a new title for them: evillusionists. Devised from the words evil and illusion because it is a satanic concoction made to deceive the minds of men. Some evolutionists even pronounce an i sound instead of an o which is where our plans were formed. I know this is arguably a bad thing, as we could be considered as calling them names, but alas we have done so.
Back to the history of writing, a simple web search on AOL shows what is commonly believed in modern times: language evolved and a long time later came written language. Many Bible Scholars fall for it too, saying Moses wrote Genesis from stories passed down by word of mouth. If you ask me, that paints our God in a very bad light. They mean to tell me this loving Creator, who sent us His Only Begotten (born of) Son Jesus Christ, would expect us to believe Him on how He did things in the beginning when it would need to be passed down audibly from parent to child for some 2 and a half thousand years, give or take? I do not personally think so. It is like God saying, Here, Ill tell you what happened on the six days before you were formed and now remember it good, as I gave you no way to record it in hard copy. I know I may be sounding a little harsh here, but does the God you know in The Holy Bible sound like a God who would not think of everything? Leave no loose ends, be sure things are perfect, no detail left out? He gave us Jesus, who was nothing but the details. We are too sinful to even try to get to Heaven on our own, so, God fixed it by doing what we could not. He bridged the gap with the cross. Why would He forget to teach us to write at the beginning? He taught us to speak, as Adam spoke to his wife on the 6th day in Genesis 2:23. If you want my view of the history of writing, look into Air Commodore P. J. Wiseman.
Thank you for your support on my opinion on what is truly important. It still stands here. I can get very into this topic, as you no doubt by now can see, but the truth remains that none of this gets you to Heaven. Only faith in Jesus The Christ. As a result, I cannot comply with not telling all this out here. The Great Commission found in Matthew 28:18-20 applies everywhere. Star Trek Online included. Besides, not everyone out here are the swine mentioned in Matthew 7:6, some will listen. It is those few that I post this here for. Even if only 1 person gets closer to Jesus, be it a Christian growing in their relationship, or a nonbeliever taking one more step to realizing God loves them, posting this was worth it. And, before you suggest it is not doing any good, a Christian Fleet found me via this thread Zion Fleet, part of the Jesus Freaks guild. Also, I found the 91st Expeditionary Group by typing in Christian Fleet in the forum search engine. Try it. You will also find a Testament Fleet, but as of now I cant confirm it still exists or not. Posting the truth is not worthless, especially for those who are willing to look for it. They cant find it if we will not tell it. Better to do something than to do nothing. God can use anything for His glory, even a bad witness, but you must be willing to try or He has nothing to work with.
Moving on to your last point, I assume you are speaking of Frederick A. Larson. Yes, he doesnt give an exact time, and it is vague based on the stars, but I would assume 9 months for Jesus being in the womb.
And finally, you are very welcome! I do not believe in not answering questions. You were asking and not even attackingly, what reason should I have to ignore you or worse yell? I will close with two Bible verses which I try to follow.
2nd Timothy 2:15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing The Word of Truth.
1st Peter 3:15But sanctify The Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
In favor of perhaps getting a little discussion, I would be curious to know peoples opinions on how Biblically accurate James Camerons new film Avatar is? I am mostly speaking of the more theological views involved. Like the deity, protecting nature, ancestors living on, and simply aliens period. Can they be supported by Scripture? Any thoughts?
What do the Light Bearers do when we meet new cultures with their own theological views? It is a good question, I am pleased someone has asked. First thing I would simply like to point out is that as far as Ive seen there are no truly unique theological views in any sci-fi. From my experience all of them are purely Earth ideas planted on other worlds, or a slightly different twist on an Earth idea. Eastern Mysticism and New Age being the most popular.
There is a reason for this, though. Star Trek, Babylon 5, Andromeda, Stargate, Star Wars, etc. these are all written by humans and with human backgrounds. Having never met a truly alien race ever, we cannot comprehend in the least what their culture, religion, or even physiology would be like. The belief in aliens sprung up mainly from evolutionary ideas, and if aliens evolved in this way, evolution is so unpredictable, we could never guess. We would be as alien to them as they are to us, in fact. First contact would be immensely difficult because of this, being wed have near to no common ground.
One thing that would be the same, though, is that both would have at least one belief system that is in tune with The One True God: Jesus Christ. On Earth it is Christianity, on their world it would be another name, but chances are good the doctrine would be very similar. If God created aliens, He would have made Himself known to them as well, like He did with mankind. The Holy Bible says, Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever. (Hebrews 13:8). God does not change, so they would have the same God to pray to as we do. The difference would be that in their culture things would still be vastly unique. What would Christianity look like on a world with no history at all like ours? I do not know, but it would be there nonetheless.
It would not be fair for God to give Earthlings a way to Heaven and none of His other creations. The only way around this is to believe there are no such thing as aliens or none others with souls. I personally do not believe in extra terrestrials because The Bible, I think, makes it clear they do not exist. But if there were, and I could start a fleet called Light Bearers, I would witness to the alien species. Jesus said in Mark 16:15, Go ye into all the world, and preach The Gospel to every creature. That would include aliens. And if the E.T.s refuse, well, we would do so anyways, plain and simple. Between mid-2008 and mid-2009 an estimated 176,000 Christians were martyred for their belief in Christ. Christians are persecuted on Earth for their faith, persecution by other worlds would be no unique thing.
In Star Trek wed only be trading nations for planets. Some nations, like the USA (for now), allow Christianity, so would some extrasolar planets. While other nations, like North Korea (2009s top persecutor for the 7th straight year), would be wholeheartedly against it. The difference is zilch, death on Earth by your own people or death on another planet by another race. I would hope I'd be brave enough to die for my Lord and Savior, and I fear that Ill live to see the day here in Americathe land of the free.
Now that Ive given the background, to answer each question directly:
When the Light Bearers meet new species and cultures that have their own unique and diverse theological views, what do they do?
We enter the role as Ambassadors for Christ (2 Corinthians 5:20).
Do the new cultures need to be cleansed?
If you mean eliminated, no. Jesus is The Prince of Peace (Isaiah 9:6), but wars are inevitable, no matter how hard you try to have peace alone.
Are they heretical?
Jesus made it clear that He alone is The Way to Heaven, The Truth to trust, and The Life to live (John 14:6). All other beliefs are sinking sand. But since most do not know this, they are not heretics. A heretic is one who knows the truth and works against it.
Do the Light Bearers respect the cultures of other worlds if they do not accept the word of your religion?
By respect do you mean will we leave them alone? I do believe up above made it a clear no. If we stop proclaiming The Gospel, we disobey our Commander in Chiefs Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-20). That is known as dissention, which in any army is unacceptable. We do respect people where they are at, though. God takes each of us in as sinners, we cannot do less.
One thing that would be the same, though, is that both would have at least one belief system that is in tune with The One True God: Jesus Christ. On Earth it is Christianity, on their world it would be another name, but chances are good the doctrine would be very similar. If God created aliens, He would have made Himself known to them as well, like He did with mankind. The Holy Bible says, Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever. (Hebrews 13:8). God does not change, so they would have the same God to pray to as we do. The difference would be that in their culture things would still be vastly unique. What would Christianity look like on a world with no history at all like ours? I do not know, but it would be there nonetheless.
[/INDENT]
Very good answer, it seems you know your stuff :^D. However, if I were to follow the aforementioned outline of spirituality in the cosmos, it is very possible to get a religion vastly different to Christianity.
For example say the Uronians (made them up now) did worship God (possibly not by the same name) and they also had an equivalent to Jesus. Now take that and imagine that their equivalent of Jesus did not die. Or perhaps he was never accepted as their savior. The base mechanics of the Uronians' religion is the same as Christianity but there are huge chunks of similarity that are missing.
Lets say that they did have a Jesus but did not accept him as a savior, then their religion could look a lot like an Islamic tradition, which in turn shares many of the base principals with Christianity but for starters does not accept Jesus as their savior.
I suppose my next question is: How similar is enough? Must a tradition on an alien world match Christianity exactly in order for it to be "accepted"? What about the Uronians?
Whereas Christ has been shown to mankind, on another planet, that may not be the case. The Prime Directive must also apply in the case of Christ. After studying the religious views of a culture, we must take account as to whether or not the Savior has come. Some planets may still be waiting for the Messiah to come; on others, He may still be alive; and even others, He may have been resurrected. Without studying the planet and its inhabitants first, we could not know for sure.
God, however, is known to all from the very beginning, and as Light Bearers, we still can show His love and light to all.
Also, as I was shoveling the inordinate amount of snow we got in Connecticut, I thought about the discussion thus far and possible things to further it. As I was slaving away trying to save our 2 pet chickens from the mounds of snow I thought about our conversation and how a polytheistic tradition would fit into your explanations of other religions on other planets.
How would a polytheistic religion be received by the Light Bearers?
It has almost no resemblance to Christianity and they do not worship one god over any others so it would be hard to say their religion evolved from or is evolving into something Christian like. (Remember Christianity evolved from Judaism, an already pre-existing monotheistic religion, if there were a planet that was ONLY polytheistic there would be no cause for a monotheistic shift).
Also as a response to phyxius1701, you stated about the prime directive and how it applies to Christ as well. On this I must disagree, Starfleet's prime directive should always supersede your personal and fleets code or prime directive as you called it. Starfleet's prime directive states that there should be NO interference in another worlds affairs or culture unless invited to by that world. If the Light Bearers were to follower their code as described by you, then they would be breaking Starfleet's prime directive and in turn be reprimanded by Starfleet command and possibly be disbanded if the problem persisted.
Most likely it would be ok to spread the word of Christianity, but anything further than that (especially if a culture rejects it or shows little interest) would be a violation of Starleet's code and that of the Federation.
Wow, this was really a shocking surprise! I was not expecting a conversation to be going on as I wrote up my answer off-site. I will upload my original answer with the only edit being that I am pleasantly impressed with phyxius1701s answer. It is a good point I had not yet thought of nor considered. Now, here is my response.
♥ ♥ ♥
Thank you, glad you liked my answer! Your response is a good one also, and although I did not expect this particular question, it is a very logical one. Your question is: how close is close enough? Well, I hope you do not mind, but I plan to pull The Holy Bible out to answer this.
These Uronians are an interesting puzzle, and some is easier to answer than other parts. I noticed several areas of note that you put forth: 1) they worship Elohim, 2) they had a Yeshua, 3) this Jesus Christ did not die, and 4) He was not accepted as Messiah. I will try and answer each in turn.
They worship The One True God (Elohim in the Hebrew tongue)
This is a plus and also very logical as I discussed in the previous post titled Theological Views. Though I did not exactly figure there to be an alien race where the main religion is one which follows The True God. I was running under the assumption up till this point the other planets would be like on Earth: Christianity is frowned on by most. But, this just goes to show that the possibilities are endless.
God sent His Only Begotten Son to them (Yeshua in the Hebrew tongue)
This goes back to the question of if aliens exist at all. Scripture makes it pretty clear that the universe was cursed on behalf of mankinds sin. Genesis chapter 3 recounts the history of events and Romans 8:22 says, For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. This at least infers everything is suffering and we know when this began. If aliens exist, they would be suffering under our sins curse.
But, we are not going by that assumption; we are assuming aliens would not be under our curse. If this is the case, they would need a Jesus Christ as well. Or, actually, would they? Ill continue this under the next section.
The Son of God did not sacrifice Himself
This begs a MAJOR question: did Jesus need to die for them at all? The whole reason Jesus died on the cross on our planet is because we sinned and separated ourselves from God our Creator. Did the Uronians make this fatal mistake and disobey God? If not, then their Jesus would not have had any reason to bridge the gap as there would be no gap to bridge.
But going back to Jesus being there at all, The Bible says in Genesis 3:8, And they heard the voice of The LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: Many take this to mean Adam and Eve walked with God before they were kicked from the Garden of Eden. This likely would have been Jesus before He was born. Assuming this to be true, Jesus would likely be with the Uronians too.
No Savior accepted (Messiah to the Jews)
Well, the same question applies here. If Jesus did not need to pay the debt of their sin, then they would not need to accept Him as Savior since technically He was not. A savior is one who saves you from something; their Jesus would not have done any such thing. This would vastly change their version of Christianity, and I mean a huge deal.
Our Christianity is founded around our need for a Savior, that Savior being born of a virgin, dying as our Passover lamb, and shattering death by rising again, and eventually coming back for His bride. The Uronians with just what you brought forth would have a different center, and even more so with what I expanded on it. This is in fact my point before. We would have an extremely hard time finding what Gods followers would look like on a truly alien planet.
There are some things we do know, though. Even if the central defining moment of the two Christian systems would be unrelated, the rest would be related. I quoted Hebrews 13:8 before which tells us simply that God doesnt change. The Jesus who came as Christ 2,000 years ago is the same as He was when He created the world 6,000 years ago and will be the same when He returns at His Second Coming, whenever it will be.
This is a good thing to know as it means they would be in contact with the exact same God we are. Jesus prayed for His followers in John chapter 17, in verses 17 to 19 He said, Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy Word is truth. As Thou hast sent Me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also might be sanctified through The Truth.
Gods Word is truth, and it cant change since God does not. The Uronians would have a Holy Book which teaches much of what our Bible does. The histories would be different, the cultures different, the nations, everything, but the doctrine would remain the same. Plus, when all else fails, we have the same God. If we pray and ask for Gods help, He will show us who are His own, Human or Uronian alike.
I hope that answers your question. For more examples look into the sci-fi movie Enemy Mine, the Star Trek TOS episode Bread and Circuses, and the book Perelandra by C. S. Lewis. I do have a question for you too, though. What base principles do Islam and Christianity have in common?
What base principles do Islam and Christianity have in common?
I'm sorry for the confusion, I will clarify my answer in a bit but I need to whip out some texts as well. I'll respond ASAP.
Quiiliitiila
P.S.
This goes back to the question of if aliens exist at all. Scripture makes it pretty clear that the universe was cursed on behalf of mankinds sin. Genesis chapter 3 recounts the history of events and Romans 8:22 says, For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. This at least infers everything is suffering and we know when this began. If aliens exist, they would be suffering under our sins curse.
But, we are not going by that assumption; we are assuming aliens would not be under our curse. If this is the case, they would need a Jesus Christ as well. Or, actually, would they? Ill continue this under the next section.
Very interesting answer, I never thought of another alien race having to be burdened by our sin. I'll have some more on this thought as well.
Hello zion_kid, thanks for your interest! I am in game right now and should be for several hours. If you get this soon, please come on into the game and Private Message @Jothan. I will be watching for you as well.
Comments
Good Journey friend.....:)
Play more STO
Good Luck
admiralfrick
From the 91st
Thank you very much; I hope the journey goes well too! And God does speak in mysterious ways, though there is no Bible verse which says so, interestingly. The idea is portrayed in Romans 11:33-36, though.
O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out! For who hath known the mind of The Lord? Or who hath been His counsellor? Or who hath first given to Him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? For of Him, and through Him, and to Him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
May Jesus bless you!
Thank you for the blessing and the big Fleet Hello! I ask that Jesus do the same for you and your comrades!
Thank you Admiral Joseph Frick! I will remember and let you know! May Jesus bless you and your efforts with Blacksheep Armada!
Thank you Craig-Hill, Merry Christmas to you too! I hope our Sister Fleet of sorts, the 91st Expeditionary Group, is going well! May Jesus bless you all!
Ambassador for Christ,
Noah Jothan
2 Corinthians 5:20
No Bible - No STO!
If we have time to logon we have time to be in the Word.
We need more dares like that, and challenges like yours! Thank you!
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you,
that God is Light, and in Him is no darkness at all.
If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness,
we lie, and do not The Truth:
But if we walk in The Light, as He is in The Light, we have fellowship one with another,
and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1 John 1:5-7 KJV
To start this New Year Id like to give a Christianized version of a traditional Jewish Blessing based on Numbers 6:24-26.
May Jesus bless thee, and keep thee:
May He make His face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
May He lift up His countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.
A-men (let it be so).
Although it is often not understood, Jesus (Yeshua) is the promised Messiah of the Israelites, Gods chosen people. We Christians (or Gentiles) have the honor to know the same God of Creation. The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: Yahweh.
Now unto The King Eternal,
Immortal,
Invisible,
The Only Wise God,
be honour and glory for ever and ever.
Amen.
1st Timothy 1:17 KJV
Martin Luther
Romans 5:18 KJV Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Good verse to use as a ship name! Now, I have looked over the forums a little to see if I could gather any information. I hope that is okay. From my findings and correct me if I am wrong, your Commander is MacLeod@-JF-Highlander and website is http://zf.guildlaunch.com/. You look to be a good fleet to discuss allying with!
Thank you so much for commenting, you dont know how much joy it brings to find more believers, and the excitement of seeing a new comment! I will let my fleet know of you guys. May God bless you all and I look forward to further communications!
Noah@Jothan
A Knight1 is Sworn to Valour2!
His Heart Knows only Virtue3!
His Blade4 Defends the Helpless!
His Might5 Upholds the Weak!
His Word Speaks only Truth!
His Wrath6 Undoes7 the Wicked!
- A man who fought for the King on horses
- Courage
- Goodness
- Sword
- Strength
- Anger
- Ruins
Christians are Knights for Jesus Christ The King of all kings! We will even return with Jesus on our very own horse! Look here at Revelation 19:11-16; specifically verse 14 which is italicized. Emphasis added to the KJV.And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse;
and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True,
and in righteousness He doth judge and make war.
His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns;
and He had a name written, that no man knew, but He Himself.
And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood:
and His name is called The Word of God.
And the armies which were in heaven followed Him upon white horses,
clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
And out of His mouth goeth a sharp sword,
that with it He should smite the nations:
and He shall rule them with a rod of iron:
and He treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
And He hath on His vesture and on His thigh a name written,
KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Base Shape: Dark Circular Patch
Background: White Lightning Bolt
For there shall arise false christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders;
insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Behold, I have told you before.
Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth:
Behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west;
so shall also the coming of The Son of Man be. Matthew 24:23-27
Jesus will return like lightning from the east, or right to left if facing north. Also we Christians are to be pure lights for the world to see, like it says in Matthew 5:14.
Foreground: Green Anchor
and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men,
and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
But speaking The Truth in Love, may grow up into Him in all things,
which is The Head, even Christ: Ephesians 4:14-15
Jesus is the anchor of our lives, the firm foundation (Matthew 7:24-27). He gives us life by death on a cross, and you will notice a cross in the anchors design.
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign
through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 5:21
also i find must peps dont believe they even sin so if the wish to behave like animals let them dont give the pearls of christ to the swine.
frick1978.:eek:
First off, thank you! Glad you like the introduction!
2 Where do you get 6,000 years from?
For a few examples, our moon is spinning away from us slowly each year. Only 1 million years ago and it would be too close to Earths gravity to hold its own shape. Wed have no moon today in other words. Also, our magnetic field is decreasing in strength. Only a few million years ago and it would have been so strong that iron would start to be ripped from the blood. Those are just 2 examples. Nothing over plain thousands of years work.
To be more specific, I believe in James Ushers date for Creation: October 23, 4004 BC. I also agree with Frederick Larsons date for Jesus Christs birth in the month of June, 2 BC. For the details on these two dates please look at the following websites:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v1/n1/world-born-4004-bc
http://www.bethlehemstar.net/dance/dance.htm#birth
Honestly though, in my opinion, the specific dates do not need to be known. All you really need to believe is Jesus died for our sins and that God never lies. He said thousands, not millions. He said created, not evolved. He said Adam and Eve were made at the beginning, not years after (Matthew 19:4). We need to trust Him on that. The above is just how I see it.
Thirdly, I do not know what your point on this is, exactly. I know many do not believe that they sin, but does that mean you think I need to show more evidence that they do sin? I am just trying to understand better.
May God bless you and your fleet!
Noah
Jesus saith unto him,
I Am The Way,
The Truth,
and The Life:
no man cometh unto The Father,
but by Me.
John 14:6 Authorized King James Version
first great job i look those up second most science is based on wrong timeline such as the eygptian one ect ect to be more accurate use the history of writtening it more fluid in time the science, the oldest writtens begin around ten thousands years ago thus with said bible statements the world is at least ten thousands years old, and i agree i with you on your opion it was great to hear you say it, i think i follow it, next my answer to the sin part is that most people dont beleive the sin because they dont believe in god, thus dont give pearls to the swine is adont give the word on the sinful who refuse to believe any way. lastely jesus was born some time in between april and june do to the calander and postion of the stars. i thank you for anwsering me most people just yell at me.
On the timeline, yes, Ussher made references to many calendars, including the Egyptian one, but, you must remember that he tried is very utmost to not contradict Scripture. He used Jewish culture and Biblical records for everything he did. October 23, 4004 BC follows many things. First, God created the world in 6 days to give us the example of a work week (Exodus 20:11) and that date is the 1st day of the week: Sunday. The Sabbath being Saturday, the 7th day. Next, it lands on the Autumnal Equinox, and our God is a God of order. Just look at this world and universe and you see order galore. Third, it is also the Jewish New Year, Rosh Hashanah. The Jews, A.K.A. Israelites (Israelis) and Hebrews, are Gods Chosen People, even today, Christians are an extension of that family. It makes sense God would begin their year at Creation. So, Bishop James Ussher did his homework and made the best educated guess I think anyone could. And two other separate people did their work from scratch and confirmed his dates: Mathematician Dr. Ivan Panin and Geophysicist Floyd Nolen Jones, Ph.D. and Th.D., I think theyre right.
Use the history of writing, I assume you mean? I do not trust the history of writing as it is believed by who I hold as the untrustworthy, I.E. evolutionists. I distrust them so much, I have worked with my Dad to come up with a new title for them: evillusionists. Devised from the words evil and illusion because it is a satanic concoction made to deceive the minds of men. Some evolutionists even pronounce an i sound instead of an o which is where our plans were formed. I know this is arguably a bad thing, as we could be considered as calling them names, but alas we have done so.
Back to the history of writing, a simple web search on AOL shows what is commonly believed in modern times: language evolved and a long time later came written language. Many Bible Scholars fall for it too, saying Moses wrote Genesis from stories passed down by word of mouth. If you ask me, that paints our God in a very bad light. They mean to tell me this loving Creator, who sent us His Only Begotten (born of) Son Jesus Christ, would expect us to believe Him on how He did things in the beginning when it would need to be passed down audibly from parent to child for some 2 and a half thousand years, give or take? I do not personally think so. It is like God saying, Here, Ill tell you what happened on the six days before you were formed and now remember it good, as I gave you no way to record it in hard copy. I know I may be sounding a little harsh here, but does the God you know in The Holy Bible sound like a God who would not think of everything? Leave no loose ends, be sure things are perfect, no detail left out? He gave us Jesus, who was nothing but the details. We are too sinful to even try to get to Heaven on our own, so, God fixed it by doing what we could not. He bridged the gap with the cross. Why would He forget to teach us to write at the beginning? He taught us to speak, as Adam spoke to his wife on the 6th day in Genesis 2:23. If you want my view of the history of writing, look into Air Commodore P. J. Wiseman.
Thank you for your support on my opinion on what is truly important. It still stands here. I can get very into this topic, as you no doubt by now can see, but the truth remains that none of this gets you to Heaven. Only faith in Jesus The Christ. As a result, I cannot comply with not telling all this out here. The Great Commission found in Matthew 28:18-20 applies everywhere. Star Trek Online included. Besides, not everyone out here are the swine mentioned in Matthew 7:6, some will listen. It is those few that I post this here for. Even if only 1 person gets closer to Jesus, be it a Christian growing in their relationship, or a nonbeliever taking one more step to realizing God loves them, posting this was worth it. And, before you suggest it is not doing any good, a Christian Fleet found me via this thread Zion Fleet, part of the Jesus Freaks guild. Also, I found the 91st Expeditionary Group by typing in Christian Fleet in the forum search engine. Try it. You will also find a Testament Fleet, but as of now I cant confirm it still exists or not. Posting the truth is not worthless, especially for those who are willing to look for it. They cant find it if we will not tell it. Better to do something than to do nothing. God can use anything for His glory, even a bad witness, but you must be willing to try or He has nothing to work with.
Moving on to your last point, I assume you are speaking of Frederick A. Larson. Yes, he doesnt give an exact time, and it is vague based on the stars, but I would assume 9 months for Jesus being in the womb.
And finally, you are very welcome! I do not believe in not answering questions. You were asking and not even attackingly, what reason should I have to ignore you or worse yell? I will close with two Bible verses which I try to follow.
2nd Timothy 2:15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing The Word of Truth.
1st Peter 3:15But sanctify The Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
Do the new cultures need to be cleansed?
Are they heretical?
Do the Light Bearers respect the cultures of other worlds if they do not accept the word of your religion?
-Quiiliitiila
There is a reason for this, though. Star Trek, Babylon 5, Andromeda, Stargate, Star Wars, etc. these are all written by humans and with human backgrounds. Having never met a truly alien race ever, we cannot comprehend in the least what their culture, religion, or even physiology would be like. The belief in aliens sprung up mainly from evolutionary ideas, and if aliens evolved in this way, evolution is so unpredictable, we could never guess. We would be as alien to them as they are to us, in fact. First contact would be immensely difficult because of this, being wed have near to no common ground.
One thing that would be the same, though, is that both would have at least one belief system that is in tune with The One True God: Jesus Christ. On Earth it is Christianity, on their world it would be another name, but chances are good the doctrine would be very similar. If God created aliens, He would have made Himself known to them as well, like He did with mankind. The Holy Bible says, Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever. (Hebrews 13:8). God does not change, so they would have the same God to pray to as we do. The difference would be that in their culture things would still be vastly unique. What would Christianity look like on a world with no history at all like ours? I do not know, but it would be there nonetheless.
It would not be fair for God to give Earthlings a way to Heaven and none of His other creations. The only way around this is to believe there are no such thing as aliens or none others with souls. I personally do not believe in extra terrestrials because The Bible, I think, makes it clear they do not exist. But if there were, and I could start a fleet called Light Bearers, I would witness to the alien species. Jesus said in Mark 16:15, Go ye into all the world, and preach The Gospel to every creature. That would include aliens. And if the E.T.s refuse, well, we would do so anyways, plain and simple. Between mid-2008 and mid-2009 an estimated 176,000 Christians were martyred for their belief in Christ. Christians are persecuted on Earth for their faith, persecution by other worlds would be no unique thing.
In Star Trek wed only be trading nations for planets. Some nations, like the USA (for now), allow Christianity, so would some extrasolar planets. While other nations, like North Korea (2009s top persecutor for the 7th straight year), would be wholeheartedly against it. The difference is zilch, death on Earth by your own people or death on another planet by another race. I would hope I'd be brave enough to die for my Lord and Savior, and I fear that Ill live to see the day here in Americathe land of the free.
Now that Ive given the background, to answer each question directly:
When the Light Bearers meet new species and cultures that have their own unique and diverse theological views, what do they do?
Do the new cultures need to be cleansed?
Are they heretical?
Do the Light Bearers respect the cultures of other worlds if they do not accept the word of your religion?
Very good answer, it seems you know your stuff :^D. However, if I were to follow the aforementioned outline of spirituality in the cosmos, it is very possible to get a religion vastly different to Christianity.
For example say the Uronians (made them up now) did worship God (possibly not by the same name) and they also had an equivalent to Jesus. Now take that and imagine that their equivalent of Jesus did not die. Or perhaps he was never accepted as their savior. The base mechanics of the Uronians' religion is the same as Christianity but there are huge chunks of similarity that are missing.
Lets say that they did have a Jesus but did not accept him as a savior, then their religion could look a lot like an Islamic tradition, which in turn shares many of the base principals with Christianity but for starters does not accept Jesus as their savior.
I suppose my next question is: How similar is enough? Must a tradition on an alien world match Christianity exactly in order for it to be "accepted"? What about the Uronians?
Quiiliitiila
God, however, is known to all from the very beginning, and as Light Bearers, we still can show His love and light to all.
How would a polytheistic religion be received by the Light Bearers?
It has almost no resemblance to Christianity and they do not worship one god over any others so it would be hard to say their religion evolved from or is evolving into something Christian like. (Remember Christianity evolved from Judaism, an already pre-existing monotheistic religion, if there were a planet that was ONLY polytheistic there would be no cause for a monotheistic shift).
Also as a response to phyxius1701, you stated about the prime directive and how it applies to Christ as well. On this I must disagree, Starfleet's prime directive should always supersede your personal and fleets code or prime directive as you called it. Starfleet's prime directive states that there should be NO interference in another worlds affairs or culture unless invited to by that world. If the Light Bearers were to follower their code as described by you, then they would be breaking Starfleet's prime directive and in turn be reprimanded by Starfleet command and possibly be disbanded if the problem persisted.
Most likely it would be ok to spread the word of Christianity, but anything further than that (especially if a culture rejects it or shows little interest) would be a violation of Starleet's code and that of the Federation.
Quiiliitiila
Thank you, glad you liked my answer! Your response is a good one also, and although I did not expect this particular question, it is a very logical one. Your question is: how close is close enough? Well, I hope you do not mind, but I plan to pull The Holy Bible out to answer this.
These Uronians are an interesting puzzle, and some is easier to answer than other parts. I noticed several areas of note that you put forth: 1) they worship Elohim, 2) they had a Yeshua, 3) this Jesus Christ did not die, and 4) He was not accepted as Messiah. I will try and answer each in turn.
They worship The One True God (Elohim in the Hebrew tongue)
God sent His Only Begotten Son to them (Yeshua in the Hebrew tongue)
But, we are not going by that assumption; we are assuming aliens would not be under our curse. If this is the case, they would need a Jesus Christ as well. Or, actually, would they? Ill continue this under the next section.
The Son of God did not sacrifice Himself
But going back to Jesus being there at all, The Bible says in Genesis 3:8, And they heard the voice of The LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: Many take this to mean Adam and Eve walked with God before they were kicked from the Garden of Eden. This likely would have been Jesus before He was born. Assuming this to be true, Jesus would likely be with the Uronians too.
No Savior accepted (Messiah to the Jews)
Our Christianity is founded around our need for a Savior, that Savior being born of a virgin, dying as our Passover lamb, and shattering death by rising again, and eventually coming back for His bride. The Uronians with just what you brought forth would have a different center, and even more so with what I expanded on it. This is in fact my point before. We would have an extremely hard time finding what Gods followers would look like on a truly alien planet.
There are some things we do know, though. Even if the central defining moment of the two Christian systems would be unrelated, the rest would be related. I quoted Hebrews 13:8 before which tells us simply that God doesnt change. The Jesus who came as Christ 2,000 years ago is the same as He was when He created the world 6,000 years ago and will be the same when He returns at His Second Coming, whenever it will be.
This is a good thing to know as it means they would be in contact with the exact same God we are. Jesus prayed for His followers in John chapter 17, in verses 17 to 19 He said, Sanctify them through Thy truth: Thy Word is truth. As Thou hast sent Me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also might be sanctified through The Truth.
Gods Word is truth, and it cant change since God does not. The Uronians would have a Holy Book which teaches much of what our Bible does. The histories would be different, the cultures different, the nations, everything, but the doctrine would remain the same. Plus, when all else fails, we have the same God. If we pray and ask for Gods help, He will show us who are His own, Human or Uronian alike.
I hope that answers your question. For more examples look into the sci-fi movie Enemy Mine, the Star Trek TOS episode Bread and Circuses, and the book Perelandra by C. S. Lewis. I do have a question for you too, though. What base principles do Islam and Christianity have in common?
I'm sorry for the confusion, I will clarify my answer in a bit but I need to whip out some texts as well. I'll respond ASAP.
Quiiliitiila
P.S.
Very interesting answer, I never thought of another alien race having to be burdened by our sin. I'll have some more on this thought as well.
May God bless you and those you love! A-men.
Noah Jothan