I have played with pleasure at Champions Online until I fugured there no end game at all, and now I have played Star trek Online and no endgame there too .
Cryptik you have make two great game , fun and interesting but the two game have 2 month of game playing before the lambda player give up and turn on other game by lack of endgame.
Are you planning to do something about this lack of endgame soon?
There's close to 200 missions in the Foundry at the moment that you can use for end-game play when it's launched. Cryptic is constantly adding new Dailies to the game and Gozer is going to start on new STFS - if he hasn't already started. Beyond that what do you think end-game is? I subscribe to 7 MMOs and the end-game in all of them consists of:
1: Grinding for purples
2: Raiding for purples
3: PvPing for purples
4: Hunting and Crafting for purples
Cryptic has all of that in place now. At this point they simply have to work on the variety.
i think people mistake end game for repeatable stuff that is really fun.
are daily repeatable missions which were the same as yesterday fun? No its grind.
Is invading the nearby alliances star system fun because he attacked your industrialists and refused diplomatic overtures to get him to cease and desist? Yes.
End game really means, something you can do over and over and it still be fun/rewarding, whether it's content at the beginning middle or end of the game, its just that people usually get to it after they have done everything else and come to settle on that particular part of the game, and there fore it is their 'end game'
this is the 5th end game thread ive seen this week alone though.
For instance in eve online again, you could go in to a wormhole and live in the wormhole, which is not in normal space, very hard to attack/displace and organized group from a wormhole, since capital ships can't be taken into them in bulk. This would be some people's end game, others the end game would be alliance vs alliance pvp. For others it would be pirating in low sec.
So different stages of the game,different areas, but all individual peoples end game
grinding dailies is more of a forced end game because you have nothing else to do. UGC missions cannot keep up players either, 70% will be average at best. 15 will be, hey not bad, and like 10% will be fun, and 5% will be outstanding, unique, and great fun. Can't rely on scripted missions to be anyone's 'end game' content.
End game in sto should = exploration, but not in the current format its in and that is why its being revamped.
another end game could be pvp
things you could do over and over and still have fun... again grinding dailies is fun for you, then you have found your end game, but I would love to see a show of hands for people who just want to do the same mission over and over every day.
Eve is a PvP-based game. STO isn't. Only a small fraction of STO players are here solely for the PvP. For someone like myself, who has no interest in STO PvP - even though I PvP in Aion, AoC, and WoW (and have played Eve on and off several times over the years) - being forced to do any end-game content that requires me to do PvP would be epic failure for me, and for many others as well. STO has an extremely strong divide between its PvP and PvE player-base.
this is the 5th end game thread ive seen this week alone though.
Cryptic dose use ends game story arcs in any other MMOs they got or have done. This is a big is for some people. Why dose not matter but that should end with Foundry you will give 18 or 20 part story arcs. I can see you leveling to the max just playing 1 or 2 authors. I see Foundry STF in the future of the game.
All of your examples are PvP based, and even then most MMO's don't have an open PvP system like Eve does. When it comes to PvE content, it pretty much boils down to dailies, dungeons, and raids.
Is invading the nearby alliances star system fun because he attacked your industrialists and refused diplomatic overtures to get him to cease and desist? Yes.
Isn't it ironic that when people say "End Game", in the context of MMO's, they actually mean something that would allow them to prolong the gaming experience despite being at max-level thus postponing the End of the Game? :rolleyes:
And another thought, "I wish life had an End Game..."
my view of end game is some to do other than grind the same missions again and again every day for earn purple without utility, I agreed with Cruis.In eve online have a big endgame who can fit with everyone , and star trek (IMO) would have an exploration endgame , that will fit with the canon , not just a handful of repeatable missions
The end game I liked a lot is WoW PvP, first year. Raiding towns in open world PvP. Having PvP be consensual, but all you have to do is attack to flag yourself, or set your own flag. That allows you to have fun testing your equipment vrs interesting challenges. It involes humans to it's different many times, and can last for many hours. Some of the best gameplay I ever experienced was a rolling fight between two large groups of people between an undead town and the nearvy human town. You could be endgame, but play for 4 hours at night and lose track of time.
I have played with pleasure at Champions Online until I fugured there no end game at all, and now I have played Star trek Online and no endgame there too .
Cryptik you have make two great game , fun and interesting but the two game have 2 month of game playing before the lambda player give up and turn on other game by lack of endgame.
Are you planning to do something about this lack of endgame soon?
Anyone feel like me ?
to tell you the truth i dont care about end game i just play this game because its Awsome and because i love star trek
The end game stf's in sto would be average , if they weren't full of bugs.
The end game grind in STO would be on par with other games that lack forward looking staff , if it weren't for the bugs.
The foundry , when its released would take some of the pressure off of cryptic , but we all know it's going to be full of bugs.
When staff programs an episode , and a portion of it bugs to where you can not finish the episode , and it takes them better than a week to fix it , then you know the staff does not have a handle on thier software.
Complain about end game all you want , it is the bugs that will eventually run people off , not the lack of content.
This game is hanging on because people love Star Trek, not because people have found a unique and satisfying game experience.
if it were not for a good group of believers i hooked up with , and an incredible player generater, combined with 7 of 9 costumes and vulcan women bo's , i would have canned this long ago. As it is now , all i do is sit on my bridge and wish i had someplace to go that i could be the first one to discover.
In most other games , as soon as new content is rolled out , i am standing in line to get a opportunity to try it out. In STO i wait until they fix the bugs first.
In most other games , as soon as new content is rolled out , i am standing in line to get a opportunity to try it out. In STO i wait until they fix the bugs first.
Pointless point, really. I spent 5 months playtesting Cataclysm for a company that grosses more then 1 billion dollars a year from WoW and it still launched with bugs.
Pointless point, really. I spent 5 months playtesting Cataclysm for a company that grosses more then 1 billion dollars a year from WoW and it still launched with bugs.
And I have played other games where patches of similar size are executed with no noticable bugs. I have seen whole expansions roll out in other games i have played and they are patched and finished in a week.
Deferi episode up and running yet?
Accepting sub par performance from the makers of any product allows them to continue performing at the same level.
And I have played other games where patches of similar size are executed with no noticable bugs.
I subscribe to 7 MMOs, and play between 2-4 F2P games on a regular basis, and I've never seen any of them have Seasonal-type updates that didn't have bugs.
LotRO had Mines of Moria, Siege of Mirkwood, and Shadows of Angmar all had bugs at launch.
CoH has Issue releasing 3 times a year and the Going Rogue expansion that had bugs.
AoC had Rise of the Godslayer and it launched with bugs.
Aion's Assault on Balaurea had bugs.
WoW releases content all the time with bugs. Cataclysm is just a major release example.
The list of bugs is endless. I could type all day about my experiences in Eve, AO, GW, and dozens of ther MMOs I've played. If the bugs aren't "noticeable" to you in other games it's because you're choosing not to focus on them like you are in STO.
I subscribe to 7 MMOs, and play between 2-4 F2P games on a regular basis, and I've never seen any of them have Seasonal-type updates that didn't have bugs.
LotRO had Mines of Moria, Siege of Mirkwood, and Shadows of Angmar all had bugs at launch.
CoH has Issue releasing 3 times a year and the Going Rogue expansion that had bugs.
AoC had Rise of the Godslayer and it launched with bugs.
Aion's Assault on Balaurea had bugs.
WoW releases content all the time with bugs. Cataclysm is just a major release example.
The list of bugs is endless. I could type all day about my experiences in Eve, AO, GW, and dozens of ther MMOs I've played. If the bugs aren't "noticeable" to you in other games it's because you're choosing not to focus on them like you are in STO.
In any game , as with most anything , my focus is normally directed at the issues that effect me the most. perhaps my inattention to bugs in other games would be because I could always go do something else that was not repetitive for a few days until they fixed it, but then that is a dabate for another thread entirely.
Cryptic fixes the things people complain about....so here I am, like jubal Early.
1. PvE safe areas offering missions/raids etc for better loot
2. Open sandbox
Eve has both which is why folks keep mentioning it. Folks can do missions, mine, build, trade, etc in relatively safe areas, or they can go to lowsec space and do all that plus build empires and PvP.
This is a model STO can and should work towards.
There should be large safe areas where players can pve without fear of being harrassed by enemy players (as there are now).
There should also be a sector of space that was the sandbox. Players should never be forced into this area. Entry would be purely voluntary. Obviously the Neutral zone would be a perfect candidate for this type of area. Here players could pvp with few restrictions.
The model I'd like to see would allow a faction, either Klingon or Fed, to capture systems in the Neutral zone. To do so player fleets would have to build starbases at control points in each system. There could be 3 control points in each system. Control points that had a starbase could return industrial points to a player fleet that controlled it. These industrial points could be used to upgrade the starbases defenses. Players could build shipyards to pump out bigger and better NPC ships to defend and patrol the system. They could build training facilities to improve the troops stationed aboard the station. They could also build mining facilities on nearby asteroids in order to increase industrial output. The flip side is that players from an opposing faction could capture or destroy these various structures.
One other bonus to controlling a system might be that it opened access to rare technology that players could use to upgrade their ships and ground based gear.
So pve'ers get their safe areas, and folks that want to pvp get their sandbox. Everyone wins
1. PvE safe areas offering missions/raids etc for better loot
2. Open sandbox
Eve has both which is why folks keep mentioning it. Folks can do missions, mine, build, trade, etc in relatively safe areas, or they can go to lowsec space and do all that plus build empires and PvP.
This is a model STO can and should work towards.
There should be large safe areas where players can pve without fear of being harrassed by enemy players (as there are now).
There should also be a sector of space that was the sandbox. Players should never be forced into this area. Entry would be purely voluntary. Obviously the Neutral zone would be a perfect candidate for this type of area. Here players could pvp with few restrictions.
The model I'd like to see would allow a faction, either Klingon or Fed, to capture systems in the Neutral zone. To do so player fleets would have to build starbases at control points in each system. There could be 3 control points in each system. Control points that had a starbase could return industrial points to a player fleet that controlled it. These industrial points could be used to upgrade the starbases defenses. Players could build shipyards to pump out bigger and better NPC ships to defend and patrol the system. They could build training facilities to improve the troops stationed aboard the station. They could also build mining facilities on nearby asteroids in order to increase industrial output. The flip side is that players from an opposing faction could capture or destroy these various structures.
One other bonus to controlling a system might be that it opened access to rare technology that players could use to upgrade their ships and ground based gear.
So pve'ers get their safe areas, and folks that want to pvp get their sandbox. Everyone wins
exactly guys, who dont know about eve shouldnt say go back to eve, or this isnt eve. as someone who has played both in depth, i am not comparing one and the other, they are different, i accept that, and i choose to play sto now over eve.
What I am saying is in the programmers world you are always taught dont reinvent the wheel. Eve has some good elements which can be adapted for STO. Like my friend said above, eve has the best of both worlds, great pve, missions, wormholes, crafting, market, industrial, all safe in safe zones.
and pvp for pvpers, all terrible places in far space where a player would NEVER have to go do ANY PVE what so ever, so the pvers, are not restricted because there exists a great PVP end game in EVE.
STO already has a great PVE model and its only going to get better, it can now create a PVP model, and it doesnt have to be like eves exactly, but it needs one.
someone, said they thought what i mentioned about the diplomacy thing was cool , it is, but to get to that stage of the game and be in those positions you need to basically play 4+ hours daily.
exactly guys, who dont know about eve shouldnt say go back to eve, or this isnt eve. as someone who has played both in depth, i am not comparing one and the other, they are different, i accept that, and i choose to play sto now over eve.
What I am saying is in the programmers world you are always taught dont reinvent the wheel. Eve has some good elements which can be adapted for STO. Like my friend said above, eve has the best of both worlds, great pve, missions, wormholes, crafting, market, industrial, all safe in safe zones.
and pvp for pvpers, all terrible places in far space where a player would NEVER have to go do ANY PVE what so ever, so the pvers, are not restricted because there exists a great PVP end game in EVE.
STO already has a great PVE model and its only going to get better, it can now create a PVP model, and it doesnt have to be like eves exactly, but it needs one.
someone, said they thought what i mentioned about the diplomacy thing was cool , it is, but to get to that stage of the game and be in those positions you need to basically play 4+ hours daily.
of course it is going to get better , how could it get worse?
Comments
1: Grinding for purples
2: Raiding for purples
3: PvPing for purples
4: Hunting and Crafting for purples
Cryptic has all of that in place now. At this point they simply have to work on the variety.
i think people mistake end game for repeatable stuff that is really fun.
are daily repeatable missions which were the same as yesterday fun? No its grind.
Is invading the nearby alliances star system fun because he attacked your industrialists and refused diplomatic overtures to get him to cease and desist? Yes.
End game really means, something you can do over and over and it still be fun/rewarding, whether it's content at the beginning middle or end of the game, its just that people usually get to it after they have done everything else and come to settle on that particular part of the game, and there fore it is their 'end game'
this is the 5th end game thread ive seen this week alone though.
For instance in eve online again, you could go in to a wormhole and live in the wormhole, which is not in normal space, very hard to attack/displace and organized group from a wormhole, since capital ships can't be taken into them in bulk. This would be some people's end game, others the end game would be alliance vs alliance pvp. For others it would be pirating in low sec.
So different stages of the game,different areas, but all individual peoples end game
grinding dailies is more of a forced end game because you have nothing else to do. UGC missions cannot keep up players either, 70% will be average at best. 15 will be, hey not bad, and like 10% will be fun, and 5% will be outstanding, unique, and great fun. Can't rely on scripted missions to be anyone's 'end game' content.
End game in sto should = exploration, but not in the current format its in and that is why its being revamped.
another end game could be pvp
things you could do over and over and still have fun... again grinding dailies is fun for you, then you have found your end game, but I would love to see a show of hands for people who just want to do the same mission over and over every day.
Infected is fairly simple.
Cure and ka require a high degree of coordination.
And terradome is still bugged 50% of the time lol
I think you started 2 of them.
All of your examples are PvP based, and even then most MMO's don't have an open PvP system like Eve does. When it comes to PvE content, it pretty much boils down to dailies, dungeons, and raids.
This sounds awesome though.
And another thought, "I wish life had an End Game..."
to tell you the truth i dont care about end game i just play this game because its Awsome and because i love star trek
The end game grind in STO would be on par with other games that lack forward looking staff , if it weren't for the bugs.
The foundry , when its released would take some of the pressure off of cryptic , but we all know it's going to be full of bugs.
When staff programs an episode , and a portion of it bugs to where you can not finish the episode , and it takes them better than a week to fix it , then you know the staff does not have a handle on thier software.
Complain about end game all you want , it is the bugs that will eventually run people off , not the lack of content.
This game is hanging on because people love Star Trek, not because people have found a unique and satisfying game experience.
if it were not for a good group of believers i hooked up with , and an incredible player generater, combined with 7 of 9 costumes and vulcan women bo's , i would have canned this long ago. As it is now , all i do is sit on my bridge and wish i had someplace to go that i could be the first one to discover.
In most other games , as soon as new content is rolled out , i am standing in line to get a opportunity to try it out. In STO i wait until they fix the bugs first.
It's telling.
And I have played other games where patches of similar size are executed with no noticable bugs. I have seen whole expansions roll out in other games i have played and they are patched and finished in a week.
Deferi episode up and running yet?
Accepting sub par performance from the makers of any product allows them to continue performing at the same level.
LotRO had Mines of Moria, Siege of Mirkwood, and Shadows of Angmar all had bugs at launch.
CoH has Issue releasing 3 times a year and the Going Rogue expansion that had bugs.
AoC had Rise of the Godslayer and it launched with bugs.
Aion's Assault on Balaurea had bugs.
WoW releases content all the time with bugs. Cataclysm is just a major release example.
The list of bugs is endless. I could type all day about my experiences in Eve, AO, GW, and dozens of ther MMOs I've played. If the bugs aren't "noticeable" to you in other games it's because you're choosing not to focus on them like you are in STO.
In any game , as with most anything , my focus is normally directed at the issues that effect me the most. perhaps my inattention to bugs in other games would be because I could always go do something else that was not repetitive for a few days until they fixed it, but then that is a dabate for another thread entirely.
Cryptic fixes the things people complain about....so here I am, like jubal Early.
1. PvE safe areas offering missions/raids etc for better loot
2. Open sandbox
Eve has both which is why folks keep mentioning it. Folks can do missions, mine, build, trade, etc in relatively safe areas, or they can go to lowsec space and do all that plus build empires and PvP.
This is a model STO can and should work towards.
There should be large safe areas where players can pve without fear of being harrassed by enemy players (as there are now).
There should also be a sector of space that was the sandbox. Players should never be forced into this area. Entry would be purely voluntary. Obviously the Neutral zone would be a perfect candidate for this type of area. Here players could pvp with few restrictions.
The model I'd like to see would allow a faction, either Klingon or Fed, to capture systems in the Neutral zone. To do so player fleets would have to build starbases at control points in each system. There could be 3 control points in each system. Control points that had a starbase could return industrial points to a player fleet that controlled it. These industrial points could be used to upgrade the starbases defenses. Players could build shipyards to pump out bigger and better NPC ships to defend and patrol the system. They could build training facilities to improve the troops stationed aboard the station. They could also build mining facilities on nearby asteroids in order to increase industrial output. The flip side is that players from an opposing faction could capture or destroy these various structures.
One other bonus to controlling a system might be that it opened access to rare technology that players could use to upgrade their ships and ground based gear.
So pve'ers get their safe areas, and folks that want to pvp get their sandbox. Everyone wins
exactly guys, who dont know about eve shouldnt say go back to eve, or this isnt eve. as someone who has played both in depth, i am not comparing one and the other, they are different, i accept that, and i choose to play sto now over eve.
What I am saying is in the programmers world you are always taught dont reinvent the wheel. Eve has some good elements which can be adapted for STO. Like my friend said above, eve has the best of both worlds, great pve, missions, wormholes, crafting, market, industrial, all safe in safe zones.
and pvp for pvpers, all terrible places in far space where a player would NEVER have to go do ANY PVE what so ever, so the pvers, are not restricted because there exists a great PVP end game in EVE.
STO already has a great PVE model and its only going to get better, it can now create a PVP model, and it doesnt have to be like eves exactly, but it needs one.
someone, said they thought what i mentioned about the diplomacy thing was cool , it is, but to get to that stage of the game and be in those positions you need to basically play 4+ hours daily.
of course it is going to get better , how could it get worse?