I dont get to decide what happens to the game? That makes me sad panda
the point of the council was to bring feedback from outside the forum as well as us here too, so you can help shape its future by continuing to post here.
if the council was still in effect, the only way to join was if you had an external website with viewers who might not have their voice heard by cryptic. your job would have been to bring that feedback to cryptic's attention
you yourself, would have no extra say in the game development.
I dont get to decide what happens to the game? That makes me sad panda
Yes, you do. But instead of the council you use these forums. As you can see there are many user-made posts where devs have posted either their support or their answers (there was even a guy who posted the mini game idea with lots of schematics and they ended up hiring him). So you can still contribute your ideas and thoughts on the many different sections of this forum. Just make sure you use the search before posting, as there could be probably 106826829436757106126093189541356790159185 posts regarding what you want to talk about xD.
Everyone has a voice. YOU are the player council, right here on the forums.
We take great pride in the fact the we aren't just continuing development of STO, we're continuing to develop it with you. Your voices are heard loud and clear in the office. Not only from my efforts, but also from the efforts of much of the dev team, including our executive producer.
Your feedback is incredibly important, and most certainly has a very large effect on the direction the game continues to move in.
Everyone has a voice. YOU are the player council, right here on the forums.
We take great pride in the fact the we aren't just continuing development of STO, we're continuing to develop it with you. Your voices are heard loud and clear in the office. Not only from my efforts, but also from the efforts of much of the dev team, including our executive producer.
Your feedback is incredibly important, and most certainly has a very large effect on the direction the game continues to move in.
Thanks,
Stormshade
No, really. What did happen to the player counci?. Do you guys still talk to them? Or was it just an idea that faded anyway? Do the people involved still have the council robes? -- I assume you did get robes for everyone on the council. It wouldnt be very official without them.
Everyone has a voice. YOU are the player council, right here on the forums.
We take great pride in the fact the we aren't just continuing development of STO, we're continuing to develop it with you. Your voices are heard loud and clear in the office. Not only from my efforts, but also from the efforts of much of the dev team, including our executive producer.
Your feedback is incredibly important, and most certainly has a very large effect on the direction the game continues to move in.
Thanks,
Stormshade
Damn straight and that's why STO is the best new mmo right now! Try that on for size TOR!:D
No, really. What did happen to the player counci?. Do you guys still talk to them? Or was it just an idea that faded anyway? Do the people involved still have the council robes? -- I assume you did get robes for everyone on the council. It wouldnt be very official without them.
No, really. What did happen to the player counci?. Do you guys still talk to them? Or was it just an idea that faded anyway? Do the people involved still have the council robes? -- I assume you did get robes for everyone on the council. It wouldnt be very official without them.
Well, the break-up was rough.
Cryptic tanked the player council but the Player Council still had the verbal abuse, death threats, and crazies from the player-base harassing them.
Pity too. The intent was to get additional voices outside the community as well as the official forums to be heard. Even STOked had outside viewers at the time who didn't want to play the game after launch and were tracking progress of STO on the their podcast. I think the worst off was the woman who ran the "Trek and Dr. Who blog" - people said some terrible things to her.
So, the idea was "infinite diversity in infinite combinations". Unfortunately, a very small, very vocal portion of the forums took that to mean harassing language, instead of a variety of input.
the point of the council was to bring feedback from outside the forum as well as us here too, so you can help shape its future by continuing to post here.
if the council was still in effect, the only way to join was if you had an external website with viewers who might not have their voice heard by cryptic. your job would have been to bring that feedback to cryptic's attention
you yourself, would have no extra say in the game development.
Whether intentional or not, its a simple fact of human psychology that it is easier to focus on individuals than on a crowd. Because of that, the individuals who made up the council would have gotten more direct attention from the Devs than the crowd that posts on the forums. Even with the best of intentions, the Devs wouldnt have been able to NOT give the 5/10/however many council members more direct attention than that received by the same number of random joes on the forum. For that reason, I'm glad the idea was scrapped. We all deserve equal opportunity for our feedback to be heard. And as paying customers, our feedback should definitely be more important than that of people who arent playing the game.
Everyone has a voice. YOU are the player council, right here on the forums.
We take great pride in the fact the we aren't just continuing development of STO, we're continuing to develop it with you. Your voices are heard loud and clear in the office. Not only from my efforts, but also from the efforts of much of the dev team, including our executive producer.
Your feedback is incredibly important, and most certainly has a very large effect on the direction the game continues to move in.
Whether intentional or not, its a simple fact that it is easier to focus on individuals than on a crowd. Because of that, the individuals who made up the council would have gotten more direct attention from the Devs than the crowd that posts on the forums. For that reason, I'm glad the idea was scrapped. We all deserve equal opportunity for our feedback to be heard. And as paying customers, our feedback should definitely be more important than that of people who arent playing the game.
Here's an interesting situation you might find yourself in.
A large portion of the player-base left due to lack of high-end content or PvP options (i.e. territory control).
If you wanted those features now, a large portion of the current userbase doesn't want the latter. There are people who are vehemently opposed to the idea. However, if a few people in the STO community wanted it and a large portion of former subscribers were waiting for it, why not listen and get those people (and others back)?
Our community really has groupthink sometimes. We tend to base ideas off each other and don't want to rock the boat too often. I know I do. However, groupthink is counter-productive to a creative environment. It kills businesses when they stop innovating because the employees (and in this case the forum customers) want a very narrow set of things. Getting outside opinion and free market research from the player council was a good idea to break groupthink. It made sense from a business standpoint. You can't let yourself get stymied in your current conditions and resign yourself to whoever is left subscribing a year from now.
Anyways, that's why I liked the idea of the council. It wasn't so much about some people being more equal to others - it was about getting outside research for free while getting some publicity too (i.e. STOked is still a good source for STO news but it's also an unofficial advertisement each week).
However, if a few people in the STO community wanted it and a large portion of former subscribers were waiting for it, why not listen and get those people (and others back)?
What guarantee do you have that former players would actually return if X change was made?
The whole idea of going outside the current paying customers for feedback sounds pretty random at best. People who arent currently playing have no stake in the game, and there is no way to know whether they will actually come back or not, or if their just bitter and TRIBBLE with you for fun.
You're also making the assumption that all paying customers frequent these forums. Which is simply false. StormShade (I believe it was him) has said as much in the past, saying only something like 10% of active subscribers are also active forum users.
Anyway, the argument is moot. The Council is no longer an active project.
Are you privy to some insider information regarding the specific number of people who left because of this specific issue?
I'm not privy to anything you're not privy to.
However, I remember this feature requested by a lot of people who aren't here anymore (and quite a few were banned). There are a lot of people that have left the community over time who felt their wishes weren't being heard anymore.
What guarantee do you have that former players would actually return if X change was made?
None, of course. However, there's no guarantee that what the community wants will bring in more subscribers (though some features like the Sector Revamp and Foundry sound tantalizing enough that I hope I see a lot of the old players back).
The whole idea of going outside the current paying customers for feedback sounds pretty random at best. People who arent currently playing have no stake in the game, and there is no way to know whether they will actually come back or not, or if their just bitter and TRIBBLE with you for fun.
If you want more subscribers, logic would say you have to get opinion from non-subscribers at some point. The forums can only be posted on if your sub has anymore time left.
This means you have to do market research - which is partially done for free by the player council. This wouldn't supplant current customers in any way - their voice is just as valid. Perhaps, the devs would have only made decisions based on things that both groups wanted?
We'll never know. A small portion of the community was too busy trolling third-party sites and calling council members names. We'll never know now.
You're also making the assumption that all paying customers frequent these forums. Which is simply false.
I'm not sure who your actually talking to since you didnt quote anyone, but if it was me then it is actually you who have made the false assumption. I am well aware that the majority of players in any MMO do not use the forum. However, the most likely place a paying customer will go to voice their opinion outisde the game is the official forum. So while only a minority of players actually use the forum, the vast majority of those who are going to give any out of game feedback do so on the forums.
However, I remember this feature requested by a lot of people who aren't here anymore (and quite a few were banned). There are a lot of people that have left the community over time who felt their wishes weren't being heard anymore.
None, of course. However, there's no guarantee that what the community wants will bring in more subscribers (though some features like the Sector Revamp and Foundry sound tantalizing enough that I hope I see a lot of the old players back).
If you want more subscribers, logic would say you have to get opinion from non-subscribers at some point. The forums can only be posted on if your sub has anymore time left.
This means you have to do market research - which is partially done for free by the player council. This wouldn't supplant current customers in any way - their voice is just as valid. Perhaps, the devs would have only made decisions based on things that both groups wanted?
We'll never know. A small portion of the community was too busy trolling third-party sites and calling council members names. We'll never know now.
That all sounds really good, but unfortunately it resulted in the NGE for SWG. And while your right that we'll never know what may have happened, I can say that I have personally be pleased with how things have turned out once Dan took over, and really could not imagine what alternative course they could have taken between then and now that would have been more bennificial to the game.
You're also making the assumption that all paying customers frequent these forums. Which is simply false. StormShade (I believe it was him) has said as much in the past, saying only something like 10% of active subscribers are also active forum users.
That number remains fairly accurate. It also represents all those users who visit the forums. The number of people who post is actually quite a bit smaller.
.... The number of people who post is actually quite a bit smaller.
Thanks,
Stormshade
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
....
That number remains fairly accurate. It also represents all those users who visit the forums. The number of people who post is actually quite a bit smaller.
Thanks,
Stormshade
i find it staggering that roughly 90% dont even look at the forums, on a game that has a fairly complex franchise and is updated like once a week.
i find it staggering that roughly 90% dont even look at the forums, on a game that has a fairly complex franchise and is updated like once a week.
no wonder no one can find sulu.
It has been that way in just about any MMO you could name. Roughly, somewhere from 6 to 10 percent will LOOK at the forums while far less actually post. And yes, it is amazing but what I have found it that most people think it is too much work to look up something on the forums let alone bother to post.
When I saw the title of the thread I thought that either Cryptic was bringing back the program or someone had necro'd a LONG dead thread. I guess I found out that someone just necro'd the topic. As has been pointed out above, the Council had been nixxed a long time ago. Personally, I never had any real opinion on it then and I certainly don't care about it now. It was a good concept on paper, but people just didn't want non-players telling Cryptic what we wanted.
At least voices still get heard...on these forums...by a relatively small percentage of players. Look at the suggestions/requests that had been posted since launch and see how many of them have been implemented. They're listening and making decisions based on how popular these ideas are. Some are great...some are TRIBBLE...some are major WTF ideas...but a fair number of them are being looked at and commented on.
i find it staggering that roughly 90% dont even look at the forums, on a game that has a fairly complex franchise and is updated like once a week.
no wonder no one can find sulu.
The sheer amount of people that can use this forum is a bit daunting to some, and perhaps go to smaller forums (either fan or fleet run) to get their voices and opinions heard.
As Srafa said, people don't want to post in case of being shot down because the topics have been brought up before, or their grammar isn't one hundred percent. Lets face it, any large scale forum has a lot of hostility as people are passionate about what they are talking about.
The sheer amount of people that can use this forum is a bit daunting to some, and perhaps go to smaller forums (either fan or fleet run) to get their voices and opinions heard.
As Srafa said, people don't want to post in case of being shot down because the topics have been brought up before, or their grammar isn't one hundred percent. Lets face it, any large scale forum has a lot of hostility as people are ******s.
Fixed. In my opinion (no facts, pure unadulterated opinion) most people with at least one game under their belt will have encountered hostility on their previous game forums, and choose to avoid all game forums altogether.
Fixed. In my opinion (no facts, pure unadulterated opinion) most people with at least one game under their belt will have encountered hostility on their previous game forums, and choose to avoid all game forums altogether.
So true, but I was just trying to grind up my diplomatic xp
So, the idea was "infinite diversity in infinite combinations". Unfortunately, a very small, very vocal portion of the forums took that to mean harassing language, instead of a variety of input.
Yeah, I think one of them made a joking comment about hating Klingons, and members of the "I HATE FEDS! HOW DARE THEY SELECT A DIFFERENT OPTION AT THE CHARACTER CREATION SCREEN?!" brigade went nuts, and started harassing.
There was a lot more negativity in the community then.
Comments
The goal was to get outside feedback (i.e. feedback from people who websites that had lots of non-sto players but would be interested).
You couldn't join, even if it weren't dead, Jim... err... Jack Sparrow.
the point of the council was to bring feedback from outside the forum as well as us here too, so you can help shape its future by continuing to post here.
if the council was still in effect, the only way to join was if you had an external website with viewers who might not have their voice heard by cryptic. your job would have been to bring that feedback to cryptic's attention
you yourself, would have no extra say in the game development.
Yes, you do. But instead of the council you use these forums. As you can see there are many user-made posts where devs have posted either their support or their answers (there was even a guy who posted the mini game idea with lots of schematics and they ended up hiring him). So you can still contribute your ideas and thoughts on the many different sections of this forum. Just make sure you use the search before posting, as there could be probably 106826829436757106126093189541356790159185 posts regarding what you want to talk about xD.
We take great pride in the fact the we aren't just continuing development of STO, we're continuing to develop it with you. Your voices are heard loud and clear in the office. Not only from my efforts, but also from the efforts of much of the dev team, including our executive producer.
Your feedback is incredibly important, and most certainly has a very large effect on the direction the game continues to move in.
Thanks,
Stormshade
No, really. What did happen to the player counci?. Do you guys still talk to them? Or was it just an idea that faded anyway? Do the people involved still have the council robes? -- I assume you did get robes for everyone on the council. It wouldnt be very official without them.
Damn straight and that's why STO is the best new mmo right now! Try that on for size TOR!:D
I never got a robe.
*writes a letter to Cryptic*
Well, the break-up was rough.
Cryptic tanked the player council but the Player Council still had the verbal abuse, death threats, and crazies from the player-base harassing them.
Pity too. The intent was to get additional voices outside the community as well as the official forums to be heard. Even STOked had outside viewers at the time who didn't want to play the game after launch and were tracking progress of STO on the their podcast. I think the worst off was the woman who ran the "Trek and Dr. Who blog" - people said some terrible things to her.
So, the idea was "infinite diversity in infinite combinations". Unfortunately, a very small, very vocal portion of the forums took that to mean harassing language, instead of a variety of input.
Whether intentional or not, its a simple fact of human psychology that it is easier to focus on individuals than on a crowd. Because of that, the individuals who made up the council would have gotten more direct attention from the Devs than the crowd that posts on the forums. Even with the best of intentions, the Devs wouldnt have been able to NOT give the 5/10/however many council members more direct attention than that received by the same number of random joes on the forum. For that reason, I'm glad the idea was scrapped. We all deserve equal opportunity for our feedback to be heard. And as paying customers, our feedback should definitely be more important than that of people who arent playing the game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKv7mB1j80c
Here's an interesting situation you might find yourself in.
A large portion of the player-base left due to lack of high-end content or PvP options (i.e. territory control).
If you wanted those features now, a large portion of the current userbase doesn't want the latter. There are people who are vehemently opposed to the idea. However, if a few people in the STO community wanted it and a large portion of former subscribers were waiting for it, why not listen and get those people (and others back)?
Our community really has groupthink sometimes. We tend to base ideas off each other and don't want to rock the boat too often. I know I do. However, groupthink is counter-productive to a creative environment. It kills businesses when they stop innovating because the employees (and in this case the forum customers) want a very narrow set of things. Getting outside opinion and free market research from the player council was a good idea to break groupthink. It made sense from a business standpoint. You can't let yourself get stymied in your current conditions and resign yourself to whoever is left subscribing a year from now.
Anyways, that's why I liked the idea of the council. It wasn't so much about some people being more equal to others - it was about getting outside research for free while getting some publicity too (i.e. STOked is still a good source for STO news but it's also an unofficial advertisement each week).
Are you privy to some insider information regarding the specific number of people who left because of this specific issue?
What guarantee do you have that former players would actually return if X change was made?
The whole idea of going outside the current paying customers for feedback sounds pretty random at best. People who arent currently playing have no stake in the game, and there is no way to know whether they will actually come back or not, or if their just bitter and TRIBBLE with you for fun.
Anyway, the argument is moot. The Council is no longer an active project.
However, I remember this feature requested by a lot of people who aren't here anymore (and quite a few were banned). There are a lot of people that have left the community over time who felt their wishes weren't being heard anymore.
None, of course. However, there's no guarantee that what the community wants will bring in more subscribers (though some features like the Sector Revamp and Foundry sound tantalizing enough that I hope I see a lot of the old players back).
If you want more subscribers, logic would say you have to get opinion from non-subscribers at some point. The forums can only be posted on if your sub has anymore time left.
This means you have to do market research - which is partially done for free by the player council. This wouldn't supplant current customers in any way - their voice is just as valid. Perhaps, the devs would have only made decisions based on things that both groups wanted?
We'll never know. A small portion of the community was too busy trolling third-party sites and calling council members names. We'll never know now.
I'm not sure who your actually talking to since you didnt quote anyone, but if it was me then it is actually you who have made the false assumption. I am well aware that the majority of players in any MMO do not use the forum. However, the most likely place a paying customer will go to voice their opinion outisde the game is the official forum. So while only a minority of players actually use the forum, the vast majority of those who are going to give any out of game feedback do so on the forums.
That all sounds really good, but unfortunately it resulted in the NGE for SWG. And while your right that we'll never know what may have happened, I can say that I have personally be pleased with how things have turned out once Dan took over, and really could not imagine what alternative course they could have taken between then and now that would have been more bennificial to the game.
That number remains fairly accurate. It also represents all those users who visit the forums. The number of people who post is actually quite a bit smaller.
Thanks,
Stormshade
we already have one of those, and he's homesik:D
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
....
i find it staggering that roughly 90% dont even look at the forums, on a game that has a fairly complex franchise and is updated like once a week.
no wonder no one can find sulu.
That is why i don't post alot
It has been that way in just about any MMO you could name. Roughly, somewhere from 6 to 10 percent will LOOK at the forums while far less actually post. And yes, it is amazing but what I have found it that most people think it is too much work to look up something on the forums let alone bother to post.
At least voices still get heard...on these forums...by a relatively small percentage of players. Look at the suggestions/requests that had been posted since launch and see how many of them have been implemented. They're listening and making decisions based on how popular these ideas are. Some are great...some are TRIBBLE...some are major WTF ideas...but a fair number of them are being looked at and commented on.
The sheer amount of people that can use this forum is a bit daunting to some, and perhaps go to smaller forums (either fan or fleet run) to get their voices and opinions heard.
As Srafa said, people don't want to post in case of being shot down because the topics have been brought up before, or their grammar isn't one hundred percent. Lets face it, any large scale forum has a lot of hostility as people are passionate about what they are talking about.
Fixed. In my opinion (no facts, pure unadulterated opinion) most people with at least one game under their belt will have encountered hostility on their previous game forums, and choose to avoid all game forums altogether.
So true, but I was just trying to grind up my diplomatic xp
Yeah, I think one of them made a joking comment about hating Klingons, and members of the "I HATE FEDS! HOW DARE THEY SELECT A DIFFERENT OPTION AT THE CHARACTER CREATION SCREEN?!" brigade went nuts, and started harassing.
There was a lot more negativity in the community then.