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The Federation Timefleet

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
Greetings! I'm posting this mostly out of curiosity. As of now, with players given the opportunity to use ships from the past (NX class, Mirandas, original and refit Constitutions), wear uniforms from the past (TOS, TWoK and ENT) and use weapons from the past (ship-mounted and hand-held phasers/disruptors), wouldn't it also stand to reason that comparable items from the future could be introduced at some point? Perhaps Wells and Aeon type vessels, sub-atomic disruptors, Timefleet uniforms? Ships could be part of a "Tier 7" for future update to coincide with advances to full and Fleet Admiral ranks and uniforms in the C-Store. Players represent officers from all across the space-travel timeline; I would believe that representatives from the future would take great interest in such a seemingly odd occurence.
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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    The Wells and Aeon timeships are from the 29th Century :P

    but I dont think it would be a good time to introduce future elements because of other more needed stuff.

    PLUS, I view STO as the bridge between the TNG era and the future where time travel is just around the corner. brining in time ships from 400 years in the future would not good although I would personally like to fly them in STO xD

    hope that clears things up :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    I don't think adding future stuff would be realistic. You have seen the threads about the Enterprise J haven't you?

    You can have them show up as NPCs in missions where people from the future arrive, but they should not be player costumes or buyable from the C-store.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Future ships, uniforms and interior sets would be great content packs for the Foundry, so that we can experience the content. But making them playable for the core game? I just don't feel it.

    The Temporal Cold War introduced in ENT and the timeship stuff from VOY added some very cool plot tools to the Star Trek mythos. I always thought it would be cool if they would have released a made for dvd series set in the 29th century, where all of time was a potential backdrop and almost any scenario could be put in play as long as it got fixed in the end...

    Now with the Foundry, if the elements are added, the only limit is the author's imagination.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Future ships, uniforms and interior sets would be great content packs for the Foundry, so that we can experience the content. But making them playable for the core game? I just don't feel it.

    The Temporal Cold War introduced in ENT and the timeship stuff from VOY added some very cool plot tools to the Star Trek mythos. I always thought it would be cool if they would have released a made for dvd series set in the 29th century, where all of time was a potential backdrop and almost any scenario could be put in play as long as it got fixed in the end...

    Now with the Foundry, if the elements are added, the only limit is the author's imagination.

    thats a great idea

    future stuff for Foundry! :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Galactrix wrote: »
    I don't think adding future stuff would be realistic. You have seen the threads about the Enterprise J haven't you?

    You can have them show up as NPCs in missions where people from the future arrive, but they should not be player costumes or buyable from the C-store.

    I would consider making the costumes into player costumes, particularly as part of a Federation Diplomatic Corps style advancement system.

    Ie. do a time travel mission, get 10 points. At 1200 points, you get issued the uniform.

    It's the timeships themselves I'd be wary about handing out. Not because I don't think the tech exists. (The 1701 went on routine time travel assignments.) But because I think it would be far rem,oved from the game's focus.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    What's wrong with future stuff? Isn't it all about mementos anyways? That's we we have rust buckets in the game right? I say who cares about realism, let people fly what they want.

    /sarcasm
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Grox wrote: »
    What's wrong with future stuff? Isn't it all about mementos anyways? That's we we have rust buckets in the game right? I say who cares about realism, let people fly what they want.

    /sarcasm

    I don't think any ship in the game is more than 10 years old or so.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    I don't think any ship in the game is more than 10 years old or so.

    Well lets just get this show down over with shall we.

    I say: What about the NX or the connie

    You say: These are newer ships modified with current technologies or so goes the story

    I say: Well the story could accommodate future ships too. Starfleet could always acquire future technologies if STO writers wanted them too, and we could use them just like they did with the mobile emitter.

    If the same logic and pencil can allow for older ships to be written in the game, then it can do the same for future ones too. So why not?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Personally, I think we should see portions of the timefleet kicking around anyway, just investigating what the hell is going on in 2409, having received reports of TOS-era connies flying around with the modern day sovereign, teamed with an NX-01 style ship.

    You know, I think I may have just found my first foundry mission... Timefleet turns up and starts trying to 'correct' things, and it is up to us to stop them. What do you guys think?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    I don't think any ship in the game is more than 10 years old or so.


    In the timeline of the game, the Connie is over 200 years old...they didn't retcon it as a "modern-day remake" like they did the 300-year old NX class.

    Yes, we are supposed to assume that the C-Store Connie is one of the originals. Regardless of the fact that more people have them than the sum total of all the ones known in TOS...

    Mirandas are the same. Centaurs date from the DS9 shows (they are a kitbash made for that show). Akiras, Cheyennes, and Galaxyies all date fromt he TNG era (supposedly kess than a hundred years ago), and the game itself is set THIRTY YEARS after the destruction of Romulus as depicted in the Countdown novels and ST XI.

    The only "new" ships in the game are the Cryptic-designed ones.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Grox wrote: »
    I say: Well the story could accommodate future ships too. Starfleet could always acquire future technologies if STO writers wanted them too, and we could use them just like they did with the mobile emitter.

    If the same logic and pencil can allow for older ships to be written in the game, then it can do the same for future ones too. So why not?

    in story-terms, it'll cause a paradox.

    eg.

    i go to 2909 where timeships are. i get schematics and build one back here in 2409.

    by the time 2909 comes around again, your past-self gets the schematics and goes back to 2409 to build one in which the schematics for it are stolen by your past-self again......(i hate temporal mechanics xD) making the timeship a full-fledged paradox

    or

    just not care about the future and leave it xD

    game-wise, i think time travel for Starfleet is another 100 years away at the beginning of the 26th Century at least
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    You do hate temporal mechanics. You told me next week.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Bort1980 wrote: »
    You do hate temporal mechanics. You told me next week.

    nice touch :P
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Grox wrote: »
    Well lets just get this show down over with shall we.

    I say: What about the NX or the connie

    You say: These are newer ships modified with current technologies or so goes the story

    I say: Well the story could accommodate future ships too. Starfleet could always acquire future technologies if STO writers wanted them too, and we could use them just like they did with the mobile emitter.

    If the same logic and pencil can allow for older ships to be written in the game, then it can do the same for future ones too. So why not?

    Well, everything that involves the Temporal Prime Directive is rather ruthlessly watched/undone by the various Time Police, due to the fact that any "future technologies" would, say, CHANGE HISTORY, and the various Time Polices don't want that, as it could eliminate everything they know...thus also eliminating the steps that led up to the creation of the technology in the first place, then also dividing by zero :)

    There's your rationale for no "furute tech" - the ime Police would come and take it away form you, or eliminate the event that sent the tech back in time in the first place. The past is not to be messed with, lest ye also eliminate the present...

    'Sides, isn't STO enough of a mishmash as it is?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Callasan wrote: »
    In the timepine of the game, the Connie is over 200 years old...they didn't retcon it as a "modern-day remake" like they did the 300-year old NX class.

    Yes, we are supposed to assume that the C-Store Connie is one of the originals. Regardless of the fact that more people have them than the sum total of all the ones known in TOS...

    Mirandas are the same. Centaurs date from the DS9 shows (they are a kitbash made for that show). Akiras, Cheyennes, and Galaxyies all date fromt he TNG era (supposedly kess than a hundred years ago), and the game itself is set THIRTY YEARS after the destruction of Romulus as depicted in the Countdown novels and ST XI.

    The only "new" ships in the game are the Cryptic-designed ones.


    Actually, the Akira class was first seen in First Contact, which was set at the end of the TNG era, ,and they were featured heavily in the Dominion War. Unless, of course, you're lumping DS9 into the same "era", in which case you'd have to include the Sovereign, Defiant, Intrepid, Norway, Steamrunner, etc.

    But then....that was your point, wasn't it? Most of the ships we use in STO are either "old" designs, or based on "old" designs. Which personally, I'm glad for. It wouldn't feel right if we didn't have ships from the shows flying around.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Callasan wrote: »
    Well, everythign that involves the Temporal Prime Directive is rather ruthlessly watched by the varioopus Time Police, due to the fact that any "future technologies" would, say, CHANGE HISTORY, and the various Time Polices don't want that, as it could eliminate everything they know...thus also eliminating the steps that led up to the creation of the technology in the first place, then also dividing by zero :)

    There's your rationale for no "furute tech" - the ime Police would come and take it away form you, or eliminate the event that sent the tech back in time in the first place. The past is not to be messed with, lest ye also eliminate the present...

    'Sides, isn't STO enough of a mishmash as it is?

    a bit of a more wierd to put it xD

    but yeah exactly, any future-people would prevent you from getting it, in anyway :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Cuatela wrote:
    Actually, the Akira class was first seen in First Contact, which was set at the end of the TNG era, ,and they were featured heavily in the Dominion War. Unless, of course, you're lumping DS9 into the same "era", in which case you'd have to include the Sovereign, Defiant, Intrepid, Norway, Steamrunner, etc.

    First Contact is part of the TNG era - and DS8 technically is a gaiden story or "side story". So's Voyager, for that matter.

    To clarify:

    I define anything with the crew of the Enterprise-D in it as the "TNG era", sicne they are the leads of the main series, TNG. The TOS era would be both TOS and TAS, being you had the same leads there as well. Under those definitions, DS9 and Voyager are side stories (TV term: "spinoffs") set in the TNG era/timeframe. Enterprise it it's own era.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    No....

    /10chars
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Ooiue wrote: »
    in story-terms, it'll cause a paradox.

    eg.

    i go to 2909 where timeships are. i get schematics and build one back here in 2409.

    by the time 2909 comes around again, your past-self gets the schematics and goes back to 2409 to build one in which the schematics for it are stolen by your past-self again......(i hate temporal mechanics xD) making the timeship a full-fledged paradox

    or

    just not care about the future and leave it xD

    game-wise, i think time travel for Starfleet is another 100 years away at the beginning of the 26th Century at least

    Who's to say that a time ship couldn't come back for a mission and gets over taken my some Klingon marauders or something thus leaving the future tech in 2409 hands. All I'm saying is that Star Trek only exist through pen and paper and a writer. You can make anything happen.

    I don't see a purpose in up-holding the laws of canon when even the show doesn't do that.

    If players want to fly ships from they future, they should be able to, just like people can fly ships of the past. STO isn't a game based of the realism that the show tried to create. Its a Star Trek theme park. When, why or where doesn't really matter.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Callasan wrote: »
    First Contact is part of the TNG era - and DS8 technically is a gaiden story or "side story". So's Voyager, for that matter.

    To clarify:

    I define anything with the crew of the Enterprise-D in it as the "TNG era", sicne they are the leads of the main series, TNG. The TOS era would be both TOS and TAS, being you had the same leads there as well. Under those definitions, DS9 and Voyager are side stories (TV term: spinoffs") set in the TNG era/timeframe. Enterprise it it's own era.

    and then there was the STO era...of now :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Callasan wrote: »
    Well, everything that involves the Temporal Prime Directive is rather ruthlessly watched/undone by the various Time Police, due to the fact that any "future technologies" would, say, CHANGE HISTORY, and the various Time Polices don't want that, as it could eliminate everything they know...thus also eliminating the steps that led up to the creation of the technology in the first place, then also dividing by zero :)

    There's your rationale for no "furute tech" - the ime Police would come and take it away form you, or eliminate the event that sent the tech back in time in the first place. The past is not to be messed with, lest ye also eliminate the present...

    'Sides, isn't STO enough of a mishmash as it is?

    2 words: Mobile Emitter

    And fans loved it, and no time police came chasing after the Doctor for it either. More importantly, no big ol' scary paradox... at least that we knew of. But who cared right? The Doctor could leave sicbay.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Grox wrote: »
    2 words: Mobile Emitter

    And fans loved it, and no time police came chasing after the Doctor for it either.

    thats only because either they never knew it was there and never knew where it came from, only from the Delta Quadrant or they just simply ignored it because it just wasnt worth it :P

    ships are different matter though :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Grox wrote: »
    Who's to say that a time ship couldn't come back for a mission and gets over taken my some Klingon marauders or something thus leaving the future tech in 2409 hands. All I'm saying is that Star Trek only exist through pen and paper and a writer. You can make anything happen.

    I don't see a purpose in up-holding the laws of canon when even the show doesn't do that.

    If players want to fly ships from they future, they should be able to, just like people can fly ships of the past. STO isn't a game based of the realism that the show tried to create. Its a Star Trek theme park. When, why or where doesn't really matter.

    One thing snags you here: There's more than one timeship, ya know. Not to mention more than one organization keeping a eye on the timeline. They'd simply use another ship to also go back in time and undo the event that led to capture, STILL leaving you with nothing.

    TBH, this tells me you need to read more actual science fiction - this kinda thing comes up a lot in 50s-60s sci-fi.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Ooiue wrote: »
    thats only because either they never knew it was there and never knew where it came from, only from the Delta Quadrant or they just simply ignored it because it just wasnt worth it :P

    ships are different matter though :)

    Really, you think Braxton's people couldn't have read historical logs (like everyone else in the show) to come across Janeways log about getting the mobile emitter? Or even starfleets logs on the Doctor bringing the tech back from starfleet.
    Callasan wrote: »
    One thing snags you here: There's more than one timeship, ya know. Not to mention more than one organization keeping a eye on the timeline. They'd simply use another ship to also go back in time and undo the event that led to capture, STILL leaving you with nothing.

    TBH, this tells me you need to read more actual science fiction - this kinda thing comes up a lot in 50s-60s sci-fi.

    Only if the writer of the story makes that happen. It's not real you know.

    You also forget that episode of TNG where a guy from the past steals a timeship from the people in the future and comes to the enterprise. No one tried to stop him except the crew of the enterprise and no time cops came to try and get the ship back.

    I don't need to read anything. Sure the writers use temporal mechanics rules of time travel, and they break them all the time too. For entertainment purposes non the less.

    Get over yourslef, its fiction.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    There is more from the future than just ships and technology.

    I'd love to get my hands on those neat 29th century Starfleet uniforms. They were quite nice. An Daniels' suit would be a nice male addition to the T'Pol/Seven of Nine/Counselor Troi branch of clothes, wouldn't it?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    People have no good reason for not wanting future ships in the game other than they just don't want them. They should have thought of that before asking for ships from other time lines. Or seeing people that don't belong in the story. Or getting their favorite costume.

    Just because a story is convenient for you, doesn't mean it is for others. And vice-versa. If you want to open a can of worms to cheesy story elements just so you can have your favorite (inserts whatever here), then others are going to want their favorite stuff too.


    Like I said, the game is a theme park. Fun rides is the only thing that matters.:p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    I’d like to see some mission that lead you into the future it would be nice break from all the ones that always have you saving past trek hero’s lives without them knowing. I’d also really like to see some ship more in-line with the way the wells looked. I liked the unibody design of the ships. I don’t really care if it would be a 29th century ship just that it break more from the norm like the wells or the defiant.

    maybe a way of doing it would be like what happened to archer were your basically used as an in field agent for your own time. Say your brought in because of how well you handled all the other time travel mission you’ve done previously. So you get a handler like Daniels that feeds missions every so often that at times lead you into the future other times having stopping future time travelers in your own era. Have him hate the guy from section 31 that has had you help him on some mission. maybe he thinks of him as some dark ages bloodthirsty version of what the future temporal organisation will one day be.

    I don’t really care if it always makes complete sense trek doesn’t often nor do I expect it to, its fiction the important bit is are you being entertained.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Grox wrote: »
    Really, you think Braxton's people couldn't have read historical logs (like everyone else in the show) to come across Janeways log about getting the mobile emitter? Or even starfleets logs on the Doctor bringing the tech back from starfleet.



    Only if the writer of the story makes that happen. It's not real you know.

    You also forget that episode of TNG where a guy from the past steals a timeship from the people in the future and comes to the enterprise. No one tried to stop him except the crew of the enterprise and no time cops came to try and get the ship back.

    I don't need to read anything. Sure the writers use temporal mechanics rules of time travel, and they break them all the time too. For entertainment purposes non the less.

    Get over yourslef, its fiction.

    One of the Enterprise stories I regret them never getting around to was the one where we were supposed to see that storyline from Rasmussen's perspective. They planned for him to be an old friend of Archer's dad.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    Thank you all for the responses, for and against. My primary purpose was to stimulate discussion on a thought I had this morning at work. I understand that, at least in terms of weapons and (possibly) ships, the over-powered nature of each is of concern and Grox, to me, made some very good points. As pointed out, I do see how usage in The Foundry, and maybe even a story arc could be of interest. I just thought it was interesting how so many individuals from different time periods, converged in one time (2409), could not possibly generate interest to the Temporal powers of the future. It just struck me as such an unusual occurence and, one ( at least in my opinion) that should be exploited. It's also entirely possible that CBS could axe such an idea as damaging a future option of theirs ( no pun intended, of course).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited December 2010
    lyflite wrote: »
    Thank you all for the responses, for and against. My primary purpose was to stimulate discussion on a thought I had this morning at work. I understand that, at least in terms of weapons and (possibly) ships, the over-powered nature of each is of concern and Grox, to me, made some very good points. As pointed out, I do see how usage in The Foundry, and maybe even a story arc could be of interest. I just thought it was interesting how so many individuals from different time periods, converged in one time (2409), could not possibly generate interest to the Temporal powers of the future. It just struck me as such an unusual occurence and, one ( at least in my opinion) that should be exploited. It's also entirely possible that CBS could axe such an idea as damaging a future option of theirs ( no pun intended, of course).

    They probrably would, too - being that such a "timeline party" in various forms has been copyrighted by quite a few authors, including Robert Heinlein (ending of Number of the Beast-) and forms the plot for quite a few others, though mostly in those others the party takes place outside of linear time.

    And, tot he person above who keeps posting "it's fiction, get over it" - Guess you've never been a trufan. Arguing about such minutae is par for the course for trufans. Allowing this would cause even more suspension of disbelief problems for those trufans still here in STO...stretch it too thin it becomes unbelievable, adn then you have lost customers who don't like what you're doing to "their" fiction. Deal with it yourself - not including futire tech or ships does no harm, including them will lose a part of the fanbase - the ones most likely to remain, at that.
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