Hey everyone - so my current ship is a Defiant-type and it's equipped with dual cannons. However, there is something that I've noticed about cannons for a while that has bothered me - the animations look nothing like cannons weapons-fire in the shows.
Currently, cannons are relatively slow-firing, and have large, torpedo-looking energy bolts. These bolts even follow enemies when they turn! In the shows, cannons were rapid-fire, straight-shot weapons that really felt like they had power behind them. I really miss that feeliing of power I could feel from the shows. Has this been brought up to the devs? I think if these animations were "tweaked" a bit, cannons would have a much better "feel" to them! What do you all think?
you know, with the ground combat update it sounds like you can actually miss if you aren't aimed right. so it must be possible at some level to do that in this game. something like that would be nice for cannons, or even beams. currently a miss looks like a hit, but is just calculated as a miss. for beams, if the game calculates a miss it would be nice if you saw a shot fly past them. single cannons and turrets should act like that too. for dual cannons it might be nice if you could basically fire them strait forward whenever you wanted, target or not. if an enemy is with in the cannons firing arc, make it track the target the best it can, but that's it. no cannon shots following people. might need to buff the damage since a lot less cannon shots are going to hit.
I like that idea. It would feel much more real to have near miss cannon shots fly by in space. It would also look good if you could evade enemy NPCs phaser arcs and have beams wizz past your hull.
I agree - we saw beams miss such small targets as the Defiant-class in DS9. Cannon misses, more rapid-fired-ness, less "my cannon shots are following the target," and beam misses would all contribute to a more fast-paced, "Star Trek-ish" experience. Thanks for the responses!
I agree - we saw beams miss such small targets as the Defiant-class in DS9. Cannon misses, more rapid-fired-ness, less "my cannon shots are following the target," and beam misses would all contribute to a more fast-paced, "Star Trek-ish" experience. Thanks for the responses!
The question is: how do you present this without radically changing the entire balance of the game?
Hey everyone - so my current ship is a Defiant-type and it's equipped with dual cannons. However, there is something that I've noticed about cannons for a while that has bothered me - the animations look nothing like cannons weapons-fire in the shows.
Currently, cannons are relatively slow-firing, and have large, torpedo-looking energy bolts. These bolts even follow enemies when they turn! In the shows, cannons were rapid-fire, straight-shot weapons that really felt like they had power behind them. I really miss that feeliing of power I could feel from the shows. Has this been brought up to the devs? I think if these animations were "tweaked" a bit, cannons would have a much better "feel" to them! What do you all think?
I somehow agree. For example, i rarely use Dual heavy cannons, because i do not like the look and sound.
Changing sounds and fx would not be that hard i guess, but making weapons actually visibly miss a target would be a little more complicated for the Devs, but i supose it could be done and it would be cool.
I don't really agree. I think the Dual Cannons are the closest thing there is to the shows. It's almost exactly like what they had with the Defiant. I don't really feel like the Defiants cannons were slow firing either.
As far as the bolts turning after the enemies, that is a limitation of the game not being able to predict where they are going to be. If the bolts just missed then cannons would be a useless pile of TRIBBLE compared to beams.
If you want cannons to miss, then beams have to miss too. In reality both can miss and actually do even in the game, but the animation is always a hit that is drawn between your ship and the enemy ship. I don't really see any realistic way to put missing based on your orientation into space because beams have a 250 degree arc which almost always has the enemy inside of it, and you don't manually aim the shots either. So you'd have to add manual aim to space, but with everything else you have to worry about, that wouldn't really improve the game, in my opinion.
I will agree that single cannons look extremely weak compared to their actual damage output. They look like they should do less damage than single beams when they actually do more. But Dual and Dual Heavy Cannons seem fine.
Am i missing something here? Weapons allready can miss, (Accuracy vs. Defense) despite the fact that they visually allways hit the target. World of Warcraft does this kind of good. If a fireball misses, it actually does not hit the target. But it seems, that the engines are calculating this in different ways maybe. So in WoW it sometimes happens, when its laggy, or enemys are moving really fast, that the damage and the animations are not synced properly, because it seems that damage is calculated in the moment you push a button.
And in STO, i have the impression, that damage is calculated not until a "projectile" hits a target.
As a fighter sim fan I know how to lead my targets. Even learned how to do it without a reticule in WWI fighter sims. I used to lead my targets early in the game and only recently stopped doing it as it often put the target out of the dual heavy canon's arch of fire. I would kinda like that back. Otherwise I am cool with the cannons. i know that very few people would agree to the idea of actually leading their targets so I do not think this would change.
Given the third person point of view, how the camera tracks, and how hectic the pace of battle is in space I understand why cannon fire tracks to my target. Still if they ever gave us a proper first person view, for escorts, and a proper "radar" for situational awareness I would be far happier to actually fly my ship as I worked out my target deflection.
Well, it looks quite odd when cannon bolts home in on enemy targets but if we want straight shots we need a CCIP system (continuously computed impact point) something like modern jet aircraft have.
Only escort type crafts need a reticule that's permanently shown on screen and a lead indicator on the enemy ship showing the point of impact in front of it if you would fire right now.
Beams cannot visually miss, they are being fired at the the speed of light, there ia no escape.
Beams need to burn on the very same spot for a certain amaount of time to inflict damage. Fast escort craft can minimize that effect by turning fastly which is already simulated and working.
(high engine power setting) helps also.
I agree the dual heavy bolts could be slightly smaller though. They share the same dps with dual cannons but have a long wait in between two volleys so i took them off. The spike damage might be ok when a target is almost destroyed but the damage per second is the same on duals and those sport the wider arc.
In the shows the Defiant uses pulse phaser cannons which can also fire beams. 15% plasma is bled to the phaser matrix (whatever that means). Cool thing to have i guess, hehe.
Would be a nice effect to use them as beams (beam array overload/fire at will) and the phaser + plasma proc as well as rapid-fire cannons.
Totally with you on this one (OP). It's just the simple fact that they had to create a new look for the heavy dual cannons to distinguish them from the normal dual cannons (wich look good IMO). In the shows we just see one type of dual cannons. These things come with a game but I agree that they should reevaluate the look.
Thanks for the responses, everyone - I think I'm just going to have to switch to regular dual cannons instead of the heavy cannons.
I know that having beams and cannon fire "miss" might be a challenge for the devs, but honestly, it would contribute a TON to the feel of space combat, and feeling more "Star Trek-ish." Having every single beam and every single cannon bolt hit the target is just ridiculous. Doesn't happen in the show, and in this respect, it shouldn't happen in STO.
And my biggest issue, as stated before, is cannon bolts TRACKING targets. Just no way. I don't mind missing! The Defiant-type vessels in STO have the manuverability to be more "fighter-ish" and lead targets - it would add so much more fun to the game! Please, devs, take a look at this.
Comments
The question is: how do you present this without radically changing the entire balance of the game?
Changing sounds and fx would not be that hard i guess, but making weapons actually visibly miss a target would be a little more complicated for the Devs, but i supose it could be done and it would be cool.
As far as the bolts turning after the enemies, that is a limitation of the game not being able to predict where they are going to be. If the bolts just missed then cannons would be a useless pile of TRIBBLE compared to beams.
If you want cannons to miss, then beams have to miss too. In reality both can miss and actually do even in the game, but the animation is always a hit that is drawn between your ship and the enemy ship. I don't really see any realistic way to put missing based on your orientation into space because beams have a 250 degree arc which almost always has the enemy inside of it, and you don't manually aim the shots either. So you'd have to add manual aim to space, but with everything else you have to worry about, that wouldn't really improve the game, in my opinion.
I will agree that single cannons look extremely weak compared to their actual damage output. They look like they should do less damage than single beams when they actually do more. But Dual and Dual Heavy Cannons seem fine.
And in STO, i have the impression, that damage is calculated not until a "projectile" hits a target.
As a fighter sim fan I know how to lead my targets. Even learned how to do it without a reticule in WWI fighter sims. I used to lead my targets early in the game and only recently stopped doing it as it often put the target out of the dual heavy canon's arch of fire. I would kinda like that back. Otherwise I am cool with the cannons. i know that very few people would agree to the idea of actually leading their targets so I do not think this would change.
Given the third person point of view, how the camera tracks, and how hectic the pace of battle is in space I understand why cannon fire tracks to my target. Still if they ever gave us a proper first person view, for escorts, and a proper "radar" for situational awareness I would be far happier to actually fly my ship as I worked out my target deflection.
Only escort type crafts need a reticule that's permanently shown on screen and a lead indicator on the enemy ship showing the point of impact in front of it if you would fire right now.
Beams cannot visually miss, they are being fired at the the speed of light, there ia no escape.
Beams need to burn on the very same spot for a certain amaount of time to inflict damage. Fast escort craft can minimize that effect by turning fastly which is already simulated and working.
(high engine power setting) helps also.
I agree the dual heavy bolts could be slightly smaller though. They share the same dps with dual cannons but have a long wait in between two volleys so i took them off. The spike damage might be ok when a target is almost destroyed but the damage per second is the same on duals and those sport the wider arc.
In the shows the Defiant uses pulse phaser cannons which can also fire beams. 15% plasma is bled to the phaser matrix (whatever that means). Cool thing to have i guess, hehe.
Would be a nice effect to use them as beams (beam array overload/fire at will) and the phaser + plasma proc as well as rapid-fire cannons.
I know that having beams and cannon fire "miss" might be a challenge for the devs, but honestly, it would contribute a TON to the feel of space combat, and feeling more "Star Trek-ish." Having every single beam and every single cannon bolt hit the target is just ridiculous. Doesn't happen in the show, and in this respect, it shouldn't happen in STO.
And my biggest issue, as stated before, is cannon bolts TRACKING targets. Just no way. I don't mind missing! The Defiant-type vessels in STO have the manuverability to be more "fighter-ish" and lead targets - it would add so much more fun to the game! Please, devs, take a look at this.
Again, thanks everyone!