I personally never liked that Storyline and always felt the Federation was in the wrong for doing what they did, taking away people homes and giving it to the Cardassians. I am glad that the klingons actually manage to have the balls to kick the Cardie butt and give the Marquis their world back. Sure, it was a dominon plot to weaken the Alpha Quadrant but if the Federation did what it was suppose to do none of that would have happened.
It's one of the more interesting Trek history that I didn't care for, that the Federation sold out their own people. Who know how that would haved played out had the dominion not get involved, would Starfleet Officers still desert their post by the dozens? Would a civil war eventually erupt in the federation? I like to think the domion War did what the Federation failed to do, resolved the Marquis conflict. The Klingons also did this to an extent.
I liked that the federation did all those things. Not that i approved of it, but i liked how its shown the Federation isnt some kind of perfect utopian state and that there can still be problems and mistakes that plague the government. Its just more realistic.
Diplomacy is made up of compromises. The federation is a great champion of diplomacy. So it would be strange if the Federation never had to make difficult or even galling compromises, such as the Fed-Cardie treaty, within its lifetime.
Meh, I was never fond of that story arc at all. Kinda hoping they don't include much to do with it in STO. There are far better arcs they can use as source material.
personally i enjoyed the story arc. i think it brought up an interesting question. one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
i can understand why the feds reshaped the border as it helped end a war that would have killed millions, so in the grand scheme of things asking some people to move to another planet (probably even a better quality of planet if the feds felt guilty about asking them to move) is a small sacrifice to save so many lives.
put it this way, how would those colonists feel if their rejection of the new border caused the war to continue and the feds to lose and be conquered. i bet they would be happy to go back in time and move their homes then.
but i also totally understand why the colonists were angry at what happened. It was not their fault and the cardassians were a tricky bunch and would happily arm their colonists and provoke a conflict. the marquis often shouldered most of the blame but the cardassians were as bad if not far worse than the marquis.
Honestly they were a story element created for the strength of voyager so they were kinda shoved into the other series to make them seem relevant. Ironically enough the voyager staff decided making Janeway someone who had to deal with conflict would of undermined her as a female captain..because we as the audience cannot stomach any woman in a leadership role face well..leadership challenges and not undermine her status as a leader. (Or a ship thousands of light years from home have ANY mechanical problems..."ok people the story is resolved everyone hit the magic reset button!" :rolleyes:)
From an in universe perspective I had little sympathy for the Marquis. They were federation colonists who were given a bad deck of cars. Instead of taking the offer for resettlement the federation gave them they chose to live under the watch of a zenophobic brutal alien empire. When things got tough they attacked, stole, and eventually gas entire planets to fulfill their goals. They were a terrorist organization who had more then way out but chose violence, and in the end paid for it with their lives.
It's in somebodies signature somewhere, maybe they'll comment in this thread but in case they don't:
(Paraphrased) To assume that the Federation is never the aggressor in every conflict is simply ignorant, even a just war is a war of aggression.
In the TNG episode "Chain of Command" we see the Federation agonizing over whether to let the Cardassians annex a single planet in hopes of avoiding a full on war. This indicates, perhaps, that two planets would have been an easy decision. For the Federation to willingly withdraw from multiple systems and abandon the inhabitants to the Cardassian Union, they had to get something awfully important in return.
Not all Treaty negotiations and stipulations are made public, nor should they be, but to date, we don't really know what, other than the avoidance of armed conflict, was in it for the Federation to give the Cardassians those worlds.
This last weekly series showed us that the True Way can field operations in the Eta Eridani sector block. I would not dismiss the possibility that the next weekly series might once again find us dealing with the Maquis, this time, in conflict with the True Way. Indeed, we may finally find out what the Federation got in exchange for the Maquis planets.
It parly depends on why those planets were colonised. Why did they choose to settle so close to an enemy power in the first place? I read one theory online that it may have been a deliberate provocation, in the same vein as Israeli settlers in the West Bank etc. If the Cardassians decide to leave them alone, then the Federation gets a whole bunch of new territory and resources, if they attack over the colonists then the Federation has a reason to go to war and get even more territory and resources. This is assuming that the colonising began before the war, but the colonists on the Native American planet had only been there 20 years, which would put their settlement around 2350, which is after the start of the war, so not really the smartest thing to do.
If you look at it in that light, it would seem that the Federation's plan didn't really work, they had to hand over many planets anyway, but then we don't know how many planets they got in the peace deal so it could've worked out better for them anyway.
If you look at the issue from the Federation's perspective, the Marquis were being quite selfish and callous. They didn't just hand over the planets for laughs, they did it to avoid further war with the Cardassians, to protect more lives from being lost, and the Marquis was risking all those innocent people just because they didn't want to move.
I don't see any reason why we need the Marquis in the game, the reason for their existence in the shows has gone now, there's no more demilitarised zone and even if their planets are technically in Cardassian space it's not like they can do anything against them, that would just antagonise the Federation who they rely on for aid.
I don't see any reason why we need the Marquis in the game, the reason for their existence in the shows has gone now, there's no more demilitarised zone and even if their planets are technically in Cardassian space it's not like they can do anything against them, that would just antagonize the Federation who they rely on for aid.
You make some good points. However, we may all be barking up the wrong tree, what if the next weekly series isn't "the" Maquis, but another Maquis-like group resisting the Klingon incursion?
The Series gets seen from two different views, Feds trying to help the resistance, KDF trying to eradicate them.
The roots of the Maquis insurrection can be traced back to the 2350s during the Cardassian wars. The Federation and the Cardassians settled a large number of Class M planets in close proximity to each other, and the issue of ownership of these colonies as well as their security became the causes of war. Although the Federation relinquished claims to all planets occupied by Cardassian colonies, the Cardassians sought to annex several crucial worlds along the border, including Minos Korva and Setlik III.
The Maquis (mah-KEE) were a rebellious organization of Federation-born colonists and discontented Starfleet officers who organized against the Cardassian occupation of their homes in the Demilitarized Zone after their colonies were ceded to the Cardassian Union by Federation Cardassian Treaties in the late 2360s, early 2370s.
The Maquis worlds were ceded after the treaties dealing with the end of the Cardassian Wars. The Federation had to have gotten something else. I still want to know what it was.
You make some good points. However, we may all be barking up the wrong tree, what if the next weekly series isn't "the" Maquis, but another Maquis-like group resisting the Klingon incursion?
The Series gets seen from two different views, Feds trying to help the resistance, KDF trying to eradicate them.
I like that idea, they could name themselves Marquis after the other ones too, and having the Fed and KDF stories be different would be nice. There would need to be a reason why they're a splinter group rather than part of the Federation, maybe they're using tactics that the Feds don't want to condone?
The Maquis worlds were ceded after the treaties dealing with the end of the Cardassian Wars. The Federation had to have gotten something else. I still want to know what it was.
Good point, ultimately I think it's down to bad writing. The Star Trek writers seemed to never bother thinking whether stuff makes sense, and this definately makes no sense. Perhaps some nice dev will see this and try to explain it in game, like they did with the Hobus supernova.
Aren't all the Maquis dead? I mean, towards the end of Voyager, they received a message which told the survivors aboard that ship that they were the only ones left. So... No real threat here. I don't see how they can possibly be an enemy group in this game, unless it's some sort of new movement that's merely borrowing an existing name... In which case, how is it any different from fighting the Mirror universe Starfleet?
Sorry, I just don't get the appeal of a federation splinter group. Seems to me there are a lot more interesting things going on elsewhere and there's very little reason for one to form right now. Who knows, maybe it'll make more sense when we see it, but I view it with trepidation for the time being.
You make some good points. However, we may all be barking up the wrong tree, what if the next weekly series isn't "the" Maquis, but another Maquis-like group resisting the Klingon incursion?
The Series gets seen from two different views, Feds trying to help the resistance, KDF trying to eradicate them.
The Maquis worlds were ceded after the treaties dealing with the end of the Cardassian Wars. The Federation had to have gotten something else. I still want to know what it was.
for me that is the biggest sticking point for why the storyline was so weak.
if they do in fact do a new fed splinter group, i think it will almost certainly not be any relation to the maquis and will most likely be a group that believes the feds have either lost their way (too aggressive) or agree with the klingons in the current war (or some other reason). i highly doubt it will have anything to do with the cardassian political situation that birthed the original maquis.
or it could also be a undine created plot to split the federation, or maybe even a founder created plot.
or it could be a nemesis plot. everything is a nemesis plot.
We know very little about the Cardassian-Federation war that lead to the demilitarized zone and the maquis.
My speculation is that the Cardassians always considered a certain region of space as "theirs", but the Federation simply didn't know that. There might have been little or no contact with the Cardassians until the first colonies were founded. At some point, the Cardies noticed colonies "threatening" their territory and launched an attack. The Federation reacted to defend the colonies, anda fter a few bloody conflicts, a diplomatic solution was found. The Cardassians (probably recognizing that they might have bitten off more then they could chew, but still thinking of them as rightful owners of their region) agreed to give up some planets they had colonized that were closer to Federation space, while the Federation (not interested in a long and costly conflict) agreed to give up some of the colonies closer to Cardassian space.
The Federation didn't want the war to go on. But the Maquis formed because not everyone was satisfied with the compromise.
1) The Cardassians were the agressors in their eyes. They killed innocent people.
2) The Colonists had worked hard to build their new homes - naturally they wouldn't just give them up.
3) The Cardassians didn't treat the colonists in their space well, but the Cardassians that didn't resettle had nothing to fear from the Federation.
4) A lot of Starfleet officers were lost in the battle, and some might have lost family and friends. To just end the war with such concessions means all the lost lives were for nothing.
As a result, the Maquis formed - disgruntled Starfleet officers and colonists looking to defend themselves fought back.
Overlall, I liked the story arc. I am not sure how it makes sense now. Starfleet is fighting off the Trueway already, so there is no need for a Maquis. It is also fighting the Klingons and Romulans where they attack. SO again, no need for "rebels" fighting their own war.
It might change if the Klingons and the Federation would actually agree to a peace treaty, with the Klingons gettnig a lot of Federation space as concession. I can see that entire Federation member worlds could be unhappy about that, and certainly a few of those hot-blooded Captains that moved up the career track faster then normal and reasonable.
Essentially, it reminds me of the TNG episode "The Ensigns of Command", with the big difference being that the Maquis colonists never realized how shortsighted they were until they were all killed off. Perhaps instead of Sisko, Data should have gone to talk them down.
While the Maquis started off as disgruntled colonists, it quickly grew with disillusioned Starfleet officers, vengeful Bajorans, sympathetic Federation citizens, and most interestingly sociopathic serial killers like Lon Suder.
As I found the Maquis "cause" deeply flawed and self-defeating (were they planning on living forever in a hotbed area of space nudged between two galactic powers that considered them criminals?) I really had no problem with the Dominion wiping them out. They kept pecking away at Cardassia to the point of where, coupled with the recent Klingon attacks, the Cardassians were more than happy to accept the offers of friendship from the Dominion.
So at the end of the day, they caused the very thing that destroyed them, with even longer lasting repurcussions with the Dominion War. It's debatable if they got the last laugh, however, as the Cardassians were also largely wiped out by the Dominion.
As another poster mentioned, the Maquis were shoehorned into TNG and DS9 just to service a subplot that went LARGELY ignored after the first two episodes of Voyager...we generally got a "remember the Maquis!" episode once a season. While I personally found Chakotay to be possibly the most boring and wooden character I've ever seen, Eddington, Lon Suder, Torres and pre-Cardie Seska were largely successful. But I don't think any of them needed to be in the Maquis to make them interesting people.
As far as STO...please no. It would be so beyond absurd if the Maquis were to suddenly spring up thirty years after being obliterated, vowing to reclaim their colony planets and make life generally miserable for the decimated Cardassian population.
As for a Federation splinter-group. Well, the only people I could see not being kosher with the current multi-front war would be the pacifists. I don't see them as much of a threat. Perhaps a group of Federation citizens concerned about the suspicious actions the Federation and Starfleet are making, but again I don't see them taking up arms against anybody. Perhaps a Diplomatic Splinter Group?
I really don't want another Maquis-ish group appearing. Hasn't the Federation suffered enough? (Cue the KDF players shouting "NO!" )
err thoughts on the maquis .... i dont rly enjoyed any story lines involving them, nor do i enjoy mirror universe. sadly it seems at least 30% of the people on the forums seem to think otherwise.
ide love to see more dominion content. missions ... series?
err thoughts on the maquis .... i dont rly enjoyed any story lines involving them, nor do i enjoy mirror universe. sadly it seems at least 30% of the people on the forums seem to think otherwise.
ide love to see more dominion content. missions ... series?
there you go
Well the Mirror Universe as it is featured ingame i.e. the post DS9 Mirror Universe is a collective of wimps rather then real Imperial bada**es. Best Mirror Universe in my opinion is the one featured in the Enterprise series. The TOS Mirror Universe wasn't bad either but lacked a certain punch (even tho the female uniforms were "right" on so to speak).
And the Maquis are just a bunch of wimps out to cause trouble for the Federation.
Comments
Diplomacy is made up of compromises. The federation is a great champion of diplomacy. So it would be strange if the Federation never had to make difficult or even galling compromises, such as the Fed-Cardie treaty, within its lifetime.
I assume he means the Marquis de Sade.
I which case my thoughts are mostly, "eww."
i can understand why the feds reshaped the border as it helped end a war that would have killed millions, so in the grand scheme of things asking some people to move to another planet (probably even a better quality of planet if the feds felt guilty about asking them to move) is a small sacrifice to save so many lives.
put it this way, how would those colonists feel if their rejection of the new border caused the war to continue and the feds to lose and be conquered. i bet they would be happy to go back in time and move their homes then.
but i also totally understand why the colonists were angry at what happened. It was not their fault and the cardassians were a tricky bunch and would happily arm their colonists and provoke a conflict. the marquis often shouldered most of the blame but the cardassians were as bad if not far worse than the marquis.
If things were so strained during teh Dominion war, I can only imagine at how many groups want to break away from the Federation now...
From an in universe perspective I had little sympathy for the Marquis. They were federation colonists who were given a bad deck of cars. Instead of taking the offer for resettlement the federation gave them they chose to live under the watch of a zenophobic brutal alien empire. When things got tough they attacked, stole, and eventually gas entire planets to fulfill their goals. They were a terrorist organization who had more then way out but chose violence, and in the end paid for it with their lives.
(Paraphrased) To assume that the Federation is never the aggressor in every conflict is simply ignorant, even a just war is a war of aggression.
In the TNG episode "Chain of Command" we see the Federation agonizing over whether to let the Cardassians annex a single planet in hopes of avoiding a full on war. This indicates, perhaps, that two planets would have been an easy decision. For the Federation to willingly withdraw from multiple systems and abandon the inhabitants to the Cardassian Union, they had to get something awfully important in return.
Not all Treaty negotiations and stipulations are made public, nor should they be, but to date, we don't really know what, other than the avoidance of armed conflict, was in it for the Federation to give the Cardassians those worlds.
This last weekly series showed us that the True Way can field operations in the Eta Eridani sector block. I would not dismiss the possibility that the next weekly series might once again find us dealing with the Maquis, this time, in conflict with the True Way. Indeed, we may finally find out what the Federation got in exchange for the Maquis planets.
If you look at it in that light, it would seem that the Federation's plan didn't really work, they had to hand over many planets anyway, but then we don't know how many planets they got in the peace deal so it could've worked out better for them anyway.
If you look at the issue from the Federation's perspective, the Marquis were being quite selfish and callous. They didn't just hand over the planets for laughs, they did it to avoid further war with the Cardassians, to protect more lives from being lost, and the Marquis was risking all those innocent people just because they didn't want to move.
I don't see any reason why we need the Marquis in the game, the reason for their existence in the shows has gone now, there's no more demilitarised zone and even if their planets are technically in Cardassian space it's not like they can do anything against them, that would just antagonise the Federation who they rely on for aid.
You make some good points. However, we may all be barking up the wrong tree, what if the next weekly series isn't "the" Maquis, but another Maquis-like group resisting the Klingon incursion?
The Series gets seen from two different views, Feds trying to help the resistance, KDF trying to eradicate them.
The Maquis worlds were ceded after the treaties dealing with the end of the Cardassian Wars. The Federation had to have gotten something else. I still want to know what it was.
I like that idea, they could name themselves Marquis after the other ones too, and having the Fed and KDF stories be different would be nice. There would need to be a reason why they're a splinter group rather than part of the Federation, maybe they're using tactics that the Feds don't want to condone?
Maquis.
Maquis. Maquis. Maquis. Maquis. MAQUIS. MAQUIS MAQUISMAQUISMAQUISMAQUISMAQUISMAQUIS.
They were named after the French Resistance guerrilla fighters.
There is no "R" anywhere in it.
Oops sorry
Sorry, I just don't get the appeal of a federation splinter group. Seems to me there are a lot more interesting things going on elsewhere and there's very little reason for one to form right now. Who knows, maybe it'll make more sense when we see it, but I view it with trepidation for the time being.
for me that is the biggest sticking point for why the storyline was so weak.
or it could also be a undine created plot to split the federation, or maybe even a founder created plot.
or it could be a nemesis plot. everything is a nemesis plot.
XD
Sorry, didn't mean to suggest that was for anyone in particular.
It's just that only two people had gotten it right at that point...
I'm just saying that a weekly series, or a Section-31 mission, or some well-supported-by-the-devs Foundry missions could explain it at long-last.
Yeah.. No. Al-Queda is a fundamentalist Islamic group which seeks to eventually rule the world and impose their interpretation of Islam as law.
The Maquis were a group of resistance fighters whose homes were abandoned by their government to the whims of a capricous foreign military Junta.
Al-Queda gave us Osama Bin-Laden, the Maquis gave us Chakotay.
My speculation is that the Cardassians always considered a certain region of space as "theirs", but the Federation simply didn't know that. There might have been little or no contact with the Cardassians until the first colonies were founded. At some point, the Cardies noticed colonies "threatening" their territory and launched an attack. The Federation reacted to defend the colonies, anda fter a few bloody conflicts, a diplomatic solution was found. The Cardassians (probably recognizing that they might have bitten off more then they could chew, but still thinking of them as rightful owners of their region) agreed to give up some planets they had colonized that were closer to Federation space, while the Federation (not interested in a long and costly conflict) agreed to give up some of the colonies closer to Cardassian space.
The Federation didn't want the war to go on. But the Maquis formed because not everyone was satisfied with the compromise.
1) The Cardassians were the agressors in their eyes. They killed innocent people.
2) The Colonists had worked hard to build their new homes - naturally they wouldn't just give them up.
3) The Cardassians didn't treat the colonists in their space well, but the Cardassians that didn't resettle had nothing to fear from the Federation.
4) A lot of Starfleet officers were lost in the battle, and some might have lost family and friends. To just end the war with such concessions means all the lost lives were for nothing.
As a result, the Maquis formed - disgruntled Starfleet officers and colonists looking to defend themselves fought back.
Overlall, I liked the story arc. I am not sure how it makes sense now. Starfleet is fighting off the Trueway already, so there is no need for a Maquis. It is also fighting the Klingons and Romulans where they attack. SO again, no need for "rebels" fighting their own war.
It might change if the Klingons and the Federation would actually agree to a peace treaty, with the Klingons gettnig a lot of Federation space as concession. I can see that entire Federation member worlds could be unhappy about that, and certainly a few of those hot-blooded Captains that moved up the career track faster then normal and reasonable.
That's not even a good analogy. :rolleyes:
Essentially, it reminds me of the TNG episode "The Ensigns of Command", with the big difference being that the Maquis colonists never realized how shortsighted they were until they were all killed off. Perhaps instead of Sisko, Data should have gone to talk them down.
While the Maquis started off as disgruntled colonists, it quickly grew with disillusioned Starfleet officers, vengeful Bajorans, sympathetic Federation citizens, and most interestingly sociopathic serial killers like Lon Suder.
As I found the Maquis "cause" deeply flawed and self-defeating (were they planning on living forever in a hotbed area of space nudged between two galactic powers that considered them criminals?) I really had no problem with the Dominion wiping them out. They kept pecking away at Cardassia to the point of where, coupled with the recent Klingon attacks, the Cardassians were more than happy to accept the offers of friendship from the Dominion.
So at the end of the day, they caused the very thing that destroyed them, with even longer lasting repurcussions with the Dominion War. It's debatable if they got the last laugh, however, as the Cardassians were also largely wiped out by the Dominion.
As another poster mentioned, the Maquis were shoehorned into TNG and DS9 just to service a subplot that went LARGELY ignored after the first two episodes of Voyager...we generally got a "remember the Maquis!" episode once a season. While I personally found Chakotay to be possibly the most boring and wooden character I've ever seen, Eddington, Lon Suder, Torres and pre-Cardie Seska were largely successful. But I don't think any of them needed to be in the Maquis to make them interesting people.
As far as STO...please no. It would be so beyond absurd if the Maquis were to suddenly spring up thirty years after being obliterated, vowing to reclaim their colony planets and make life generally miserable for the decimated Cardassian population.
As for a Federation splinter-group. Well, the only people I could see not being kosher with the current multi-front war would be the pacifists. I don't see them as much of a threat. Perhaps a group of Federation citizens concerned about the suspicious actions the Federation and Starfleet are making, but again I don't see them taking up arms against anybody. Perhaps a Diplomatic Splinter Group?
I really don't want another Maquis-ish group appearing. Hasn't the Federation suffered enough? (Cue the KDF players shouting "NO!"
ide love to see more dominion content. missions ... series?
there you go
Well the Mirror Universe as it is featured ingame i.e. the post DS9 Mirror Universe is a collective of wimps rather then real Imperial bada**es. Best Mirror Universe in my opinion is the one featured in the Enterprise series. The TOS Mirror Universe wasn't bad either but lacked a certain punch (even tho the female uniforms were "right" on so to speak).
And the Maquis are just a bunch of wimps out to cause trouble for the Federation.
this, I never was impressed with the Marquis concept personally.