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Less Solo More Group

SystemSystem Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
What the title says.

This game "needs" more group content, A LOT more.
Seriously, having too much solo content or making everything soloable is NOT GOOD for an MMORPG, in fact it defies the very nature of an MMO.

And now i'm not just talking about STF's and raid, but group missions period, maybe even easy ones where you need a number of people to solve a puzzle(Defera was a good start, but you could still do it solo) or perhaps some missions where you need at least a player of every career to get past obstacles.

In short, more group specific content, and of varying difficulties, spanning all the way from full hard 12-man raids to quick missions with simple objectives.

Put the MMO back into MMORPG.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Alexraptor wrote: »
    What the title says.

    This game "needs" more group content, A LOT more.
    Seriously, having too much solo content or making everything soloable is NOT GOOD for an MMORPG, in fact it defies the very nature of an MMO.

    And now i'm not just talking about STF's and raid, but group missions period, maybe even easy ones where you need a number of people to solve a puzzle(Defera was a good start, but you could still do it solo) or perhaps some missions where you need at least a player of every career to get past obstacles.

    In short, more group specific content, and of varying difficulties, spanning all the way from full hard 12-man raids to quick missions with simple objectives.

    Put the MMO back into MMORPG.

    I agree with you one 100% but they will not because to many ***** that they cant do it solo
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Forced grouping as just as much nonsense as forced soloing. The best content will always scale to what you bring, so you can enjoy it just as much alone as in a large group.

    MMOs are about choices.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Kimyrielle wrote:
    Forced grouping as just as much nonsense as forced soloing. The best content will always scale to what you bring, so you can enjoy it just as much alone as in a large group.

    MMOs are about choices.

    really have you played other mmos ? lol there is raids that you can not do with out a team
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Kimyrielle wrote:
    Forced grouping as just as much nonsense as forced soloing. The best content will always scale to what you bring, so you can enjoy it just as much alone as in a large group.

    MMOs are about choices.

    Thank you for completely missing the point.
    really have you played other mmos ? lol there is raids that you can not do with out a team

    And most MMO's have their Solo missions being Solo Only! :D
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Alexraptor wrote: »
    Thank you for completely missing the point.



    And most MMO's have their Solo missions being Solo Only! :D

    yea but this game just as way to much solo and like 3 group that's the difference
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Kimyrielle wrote:
    Forced grouping as just as much nonsense as forced soloing. The best content will always scale to what you bring, so you can enjoy it just as much alone as in a large group.

    MMOs are about choices.

    And how would this additional team content be forced on anyone, exactly?

    Team mechanics are fun. Especially for those who enjoy them and choose to play missions designed with that in mind.

    Not your cup of tea? Don't do them. Choices, indeed. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    really have you played other mmos ? lol there is raids that you can not do with out a team

    Raids suck. I have played them enough to form this opinion, at least. I am happy NOT to see that sort of design in any MMO I play.

    And Alex: I don't think I was missing the point. For the record: I actually agree with the part that STO needs more group-FRIENDLY content. I completely disagree that MMOs are all about grouping, though and thought I had to mention it, since you seemed to imply just that.

    I would love to see more missions that properly scale to whatever team-size you bring. I am not sure in what way this would mean that I am opposed to group-play, really.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I never said MMO's are all about grouping.
    What i am saying is that there is a serious lack in group content, and not just raids but group content period.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Alexraptor wrote: »
    I never said MMO's are all about grouping.
    What i am saying is that there is a serious lack in group content, and not just raids but group content period.

    I guess then we misunderstood each other. I actually support that.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Only if they make it so you don't NEED a group. I don't like playing missions with other people all the time. I like to do it when I want, not when I can get a group togather.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Tilarium wrote: »
    Only if they make it so you don't NEED a group. I don't like playing missions with other people all the time. I like to do it when I want, not when I can get a group togather.

    The only problem is this scaling is limited to one thing (currently): The enemy's numbers.

    Team based/required objectives is what I'd like to see more of as well. If you don't want to group up, then skip it. Just like a player not particularly fond of PVP will skip that portion of the game because it's not for them.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Tilarium wrote: »
    Only if they make it so you don't NEED a group. I don't like playing missions with other people all the time. I like to do it when I want, not when I can get a group togather.

    So who would force you to play them?

    You can do a lot more interesting stuff with missions that need a group, more intricate puzzles and stuff.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    thefrayl wrote: »
    The only problem is this scaling is limited to one thing (currently): The enemy's numbers..

    The much more obvious and intelligent solution is not just to dumbly add more mobs but give them different skills if a team is present.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Kimyrielle wrote:
    The much more obvious and intelligent solution is not just to dumbly add more mobs but give them different skills if a team is present.

    Agreed. I think there are many episodes & missions that would benefit greatly from an upgrade like this. The Gorn fleet action is one of these, as I find myself thinking every time I play it. Less zerg, more difficult enemies.

    But then again, we're merely talking about a difference in the combat difficulty.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Indeed, and real group content should be so much more than just combat difficulty.

    Or perhaps a more intuitive combat type like a Boss that requires the use of an Engineering, Tactical and Science captain skill to be able to defeat.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I'll be for forced grouping when they legalise slavery and i can get a group to do exactly what i want lest they feel the lash of my switch. Dang people running off to complete the mission when i'm still half way through the dialogue...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    You can always look for a group an do ANY mission with them.
    So, why do want group only content? :confused:
    It seems to me that you are looking for a way to exclude solo players, which i cannot agree to.

    Cormoran wrote: »
    I'll be for forced grouping when they legalise slavery and i can get a group to do exactly what i want lest they feel the lash of my switch. Dang people running off to complete the mission when i'm still half way through the dialogue...
    Oviously we made similar experiences with MMOs. :)

    Thank you for reading.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Alexraptor wrote: »
    I never said MMO's are all about grouping.
    Alexraptor wrote: »
    Seriously, having too much solo content or making everything soloable is NOT GOOD for an MMORPG, in fact it defies the very nature of an MMO.

    Those who were playing MMOs before Blizzard's Baby can tell you that they weren't all about grouping. Anyone who knows what a MUD is (and no, it's not dirt & water) could tell you that. Meridian59 and UO weren't all about grouping.

    Ever do a feature episode in a group? How much of the dialogue do you actually get to see, with everyone rush rush rushing to get through every step? That's one of the main reasons I don't group in this game and making forced grouping content is only going to lead me to 2box with my friends' accounts (since they didn't last past the free month). STO needs to finetune its existing mechanics to make them more friendly to EVERYONE in a group, before haphazardly vomiting a bunch more content out. Yes, the game lacks in content designed specifically for groups but, as previously mentioned by others, the existing system is so archaic that it can't scale properly as it is so until that's fixed/changed/upgraded, adding more content (how many team members do you balance it for?) is a fool's errand.

    So Alex, rather than clamor for more content on top of busted/non ideal systems, why not advocate for an upgrade of the underlying mechanics and THEN more content? I mean, Cryptic has to have their docs from their first (only?) hit title. Scaling was/is done extremely well there. Would you rather build a house on sand....or concrete?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Alexraptor wrote: »
    So who would force you to play them?

    People are 'forced' into doing group content when continuing the story they've been playing solo requires them to suddenly do group missions, meaning if they don't group up they miss out on finishing the story.

    Half of the grouping system, the ground combat half, makes no sense story wise anyway. I can understand needing more ships to fight the Borg, but on the ground what can 4 other admirals do that my bridge officers can't? I don't remember Picard ever complaining that Riker and co weren't high enough rank to do an away mission
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Yreodred wrote:
    You can always look for a group an do ANY mission with them.
    So, why do want group only content? :confused:
    It seems to me that you are looking for a way to exclude solo players, which i cannot agree to.

    No. It's more like players who enjoy team content (including team based level mechanics) would like to have more options at their disposal. No one is saying that solo players should be left out of the game. There are how many single player episodes in the game now? Nearly 70?

    Compared to 4 built for team missions.

    Just saying more would be nice. But no one would be forced to play this content if they're not into that sort of thing.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Alexraptor wrote: »
    What the title says.

    This game "needs" more group content, A LOT more.
    Seriously, having too much solo content or making everything soloable is NOT GOOD for an MMORPG, in fact it defies the very nature of an MMO.

    And now i'm not just talking about STF's and raid, but group missions period, maybe even easy ones where you need a number of people to solve a puzzle(Defera was a good start, but you could still do it solo) or perhaps some missions where you need at least a player of every career to get past obstacles.

    In short, more group specific content, and of varying difficulties, spanning all the way from full hard 12-man raids to quick missions with simple objectives.

    Put the MMO back into MMORPG.

    What about Fleet Actions ? Every tier (rank level) has them. They are a group activity that one usually cannot complete solo. IMO, they qualify as group content, and they are PUG friendly -- pretty much the public quest concept that Mythic pioneered (?) with Warhammer Online. Anyone can jump into a fleet action at any time. And don't forget Kerat and Otha -- space and ground open PvP zones. IMO, these zones are PUG friendly as well.

    Raiding is a concept that was made popular by WoW, which is 5 years old (?). Five years is a long time when it comes to MMO's. There are more innovative group content concepts in use and in development (ahem Guild Wars 2) these days.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I am a solo player.

    I prefer to roleplay all the missions in the game and that is just not possible with groups. Most people run through the dialogue without letting you read it etc.

    There is already too much group content in the game STFs. Because of above stated issue I won't play them. There is no point. Even if I play those frustrating badly designed and programmed STFs I still won't get any part of the storyline because of these extremely fast readers among the community who can read BOFF messages in a second flat.

    The game needs more solo friendly content. Especially non-combat missions to keep people like myself interested in the game.

    Star Trek has always been about the human condition and to better and advance one self and the Federation through new knowledge and understanding. Combat took mostly a back seat and was only the last resort. That should be reflected in this game. After all it does call itself "Star Trek Online" and not "Star Wars Online". :)

    Perhaps a compromise can be found. Keep grouping optional as it currently is with most missions. Cryptic could create content for both groups of players. The solo and the group ones. Everyone will be happy.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    I agree the game needs to better support mutliple players, and have missions have objectives which makes each player useful in a way which is not always the whole team working towards the same goal.

    My only objection to your post is that everything should be technically soloable except for the STF's. Just because I have many friends and quite a large fleet doesn't mean I don't want people to be able to go it alone too.

    First time I played through all the content I very much wanted to be alone to give me a chance to read all the dialogs and savour the plot.

    So, yes, more group enabled stuff. Give groups a purpose and a meaning. Don't though cut off "billy no mates" (besides if you did that I'm sure half the community would vanish.. lol).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Bracknell wrote:
    There is already too much group content in the game STFs. Because of above stated issue I won't play them. There is no point. Even if I play those frustrating badly designed and programmed STFs I still won't get any part of the storyline because of these extremely fast readers among the community who can read BOFF messages in a second flat.

    The game needs more solo friendly content. Especially non-combat missions to keep people like myself interested in the game.

    As I mentioned above...

    4 built from the ground up for a team missions, compared with nearly 70 single player episodes. That's not including the patrols, dailies, exploration etc. that are all solo friendly.

    Can you really claim that there is too much group content? :p
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Trying to force grouping is never going to work, people can be very Hermity, and making tons of things only capable of being done by grouping is only going to make people angry.

    On a side note, I've never understood the "we need more people grouping whether they like it or not" attitude. I mean why would you want to make people group with you when its a known fact if people do things because they are being made to they do it very badly. You'll have more people who wont be a team player, who will hate everyone in the group and resent being made to group, and it just makes the whole experience bad for everyone. Do you people not realize this? I only like grouping with friends, because mostly I hate everyone who plays a MMO, as alot of the 'hermit' people tend to. Why do you want people like that forced into your groups?

    The end result is the pro group people upset because of all the 'idiots' in the group and the hermit people upset because they have to team up with those 'idiot' other players.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Trying to force grouping is never going to work, people can be very Hermity, and making tons of things only capable of being done by grouping is only going to make people angry.

    On a side note, I've never understood the "we need more people grouping whether they like it or not" attitude. I mean why would you want to make people group with you when its a known fact if people do things because they are being made to they do it very badly. You'll have more people who wont be a team player, who will hate everyone in the group and resent being made to group, and it just makes the whole experience bad for everyone. Do you people not realize this? I only like grouping with friends, because mostly I hate everyone who plays a MMO, as alot of the 'hermit' people tend to. Why do you want people like that forced into your groups?

    ^ See also, open PvP.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    thefrayl wrote: »
    Can you really claim that there is too much group content? :p

    Yes I can! :p

    I would love to play the storyline of those STFs but the community makes it impossible for Roleplayers like myself to play those missions to our satisfaction.

    Perhaps if we had a dedicated roleplay server instead of just one holodeck server it could increase the immersion a hundred fold.

    I hate it being forced to team up with others. I want to be able to expierience and live through the content in my own way. Namely in character as if I am a part of that world.

    Grouping mostly destroys that. You will pretty much always get a griefer in the group or someone who will break the immersion through questions or comments that don't make sense in the Star Trek Universe.

    If they should go with future feature episodes to be group oriented where you have to team only to play the episode then I wouldn't play those episodes because it will destroy any chance for immersion and roleplay. Besides when did we see 5 captains doing one mission on the tv shows or movies? The captain and his crew always succeded without other captains. That alone (5 captains or admirals doing a mission together) breaks the immersion.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Why do you want people like that forced into your groups?

    Again, where is this forcing you speak of? Theres already many different types of optional content tailored for players with specific interests, like PvP, Memory Alpha, Exploration, STFs, even PvE story missions.

    No one is forced to take part in any of those (Maybe except for the tutorial, in connection with PvE story missions, but thats it.)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    thefrayl wrote: »
    No. It's more like players who enjoy team content (including team based level mechanics) would like to have more options at their disposal. No one is saying that solo players should be left out of the game. There are how many single player episodes in the game now? Nearly 70?

    Compared to 4 built for team missions.

    Just saying more would be nice. But no one would be forced to play this content if they're not into that sort of thing.

    But you are denying these missions to singleplayers.

    Bracknell wrote:
    Yes I can! :p

    I would love to play the storyline of those STFs but the community makes it impossible for Roleplayers like myself to play those missions to our satisfaction.

    Perhaps if we had a dedicated roleplay server instead of just one holodeck server it could increase the immersion a hundred fold.

    I hate it being forced to team up with others. I want to be able to expierience and live through the content in my own way. Namely in character as if I am a part of that world.

    Grouping mostly destroys that. You will pretty much always get a griefer in the group or someone who will break the immersion through questions or comments that don't make sense in the Star Trek Universe.

    If they should go with future feature episodes to be group oriented where you have to team only to play the episode then I wouldn't play those episodes because it will destroy any chance for immersion and roleplay. Besides when did we see 5 captains doing one mission on the tv shows or movies? The captain and his crew always succeded without other captains. That alone (5 captains or admirals doing a mission together) breaks the immersion.
    /signed 100%
    Thats pretty much what i think about this issue, thank you for writing it down for me. :)

    Thank you for reading.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited November 2010
    Alexraptor wrote: »
    Indeed, and real group content should be so much more than just combat difficulty.

    Or perhaps a more intuitive combat type like a Boss that requires the use of an Engineering, Tactical and Science captain skill to be able to defeat.

    That is saying a group, but only mixed. What do you want? Force players to play together, or force people to play together, but only with a certain mix of classes?

    Everything in this game can be play'd with a team.

    I play with friends every night, I don't want to miss out on anything more because I don't have 2 more people on-line or because 3 of us are science and we need a tac just to do a mission.

    Group only missions, limit a game. Sure WOW has raids, so what? lots of games have end game team missions, they aren't "all that".


    Alexraptor wrote: »
    I never said MMO's are all about grouping.
    What i am saying is that there is a serious lack in group content, and not just raids but group content period.


    Alexraptor wrote: »


    Seriously, having too much solo content or making everything soloable is NOT GOOD for an MMORPG, in fact it defies the very nature of an MMO.


    Put the MMO back into MMORPG.

    *********

    You know there is more to a MMO and team/fleet/guilds than just doing "team only" missions?
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